hweimer writes "Remember the heat the Linux Foundation took for allegedly not giving enough attention to Desktop Linux? The latest events at the Foundation's annual summit paint a different picture. Industry heavyweights like Dell, HP, and Lenovo 'announced on stage that they will now include wording in their hardware procurement processes to "strongly encourage" the delivery of open source drivers.' The move specifically targets desktop and mobile products."
What will these same vendors do if these strong encouragements just get ignored? Will they actually apply some economic pressure as some force for these hardware vendors to relent? Otherwise this just seems like nothing but sword rattling. I applaud the effort though and hope it has some effect.
1)Start with picking products that have open source drivers for Linux machines
2) then all machines
3) then if certain products still don't have an open source driver option threaten to get in the market
4) last resort do it yourself
No they won't. They will still make all their decisions based on price, all other things being equal.
Exactly - and now they're making open source drivers one of those things, which then are no longer equal.
Consider the choice between the sub-standard $10 component with closed source drivers vs. the superior $12 component. Call the producer of the latter and say, "we need 50.000, but only if you slap an open source license on the driver", and see what happens.
What will make a difference is that the managers who make decision in data centers are more likely to regard Linux as supported by the hardware vendors, even though nothing has really changed. This will lead to Dell, and the others calling for more open source drivers, being in a position to make more sales. Now, as soon as that starts happening, as soon as serious money starts changing hands, drivers will be written for Linux. Not necessarily open source, in fact probably not open source, but drivers nonet
Opensource drivers, especially open documentation is far far better.
And running is better than crawling, but you have to do some of the latter before you can do the former.
Closed drivers at first, but when the market is sufficiently important, open drivers can be pushed for. Dell stated some time ago, that they would take closed drivers when there was nothing else, but open drivers were preferable. Preferable to Dell means thousands of units a week, so the hardware manufacturers tend to listen to Dell's preferences.
Are you a time traveler from like 6 years ago or something?
The industry norm today is to provide open drivers and/or open specs. There are no types of common hardware components for which there isn't already a player on the market who is doing that - anyone who is screwing around with new proprietary Linux drivers in 2008 has missed the bus and is basically just wasting their resources for no good reason.
The time for screwing around with closed drivers is over. There are a few holdovers: Nvidia and Broadc
By Open Source, they unfortunately mean only "Linux". I use FreeBSD. I have Marvell chipset on my Dell that FreeBSD doesn't recognize. Marvell's own FreeBSD driver doesn't recognize it either.
Instead of having just Open Source drivers, how about they open up the specs for their hardware? No one is asking them to give us their trade secrets they so jealously guard. Just enough information to let the open source folks write a decent driver instead of painstakingly reverse-engineering Windows drivers, or inspecting the hardware.
Linux gets a lot of attention, but there are other open OSes out there that would also benefit. I'm not jealous or anything. I use Linux from time to time, but I just happen to fancy BSD more. I think opening up the specs would actually benefit open source instead of just creating "open source" (Linux) drivers.
I guess one could examine the Linux drivers to figure out what they're doing and then port it over to [insert your flavour of OS here]. But if you have the open specs, you don't have to do that extra step.
This doesn't look some random words from a random executive. It looks more like they have found the right time to dump an uncomfortable business partner (Microsoft) when it is weakest. It is in the best interest of the big hardware manufacturers not to be controlled by the 300 pounds gorilla. If they get Linux desktops rolling, they will be able to get a bigger margin on sales and/or bigger market share just by dropping the M$ tax. And they will be more in control. Now, if that is their goal, they'll find w
"hey will be able to get a bigger margin on sales and/or bigger market share just by dropping the M$ tax. "
ummm.. No. All it will do is lower the cost by the amount the license costs. And it will apply to all the PC makers. So the cost of all PCs drop by about 20 bucks. Maybe not 20 bucks, but these PC makers do not pay retail, not by a long shot. When I was in that business, Win NT cost 15 bucks from MS. The biggest cost is the installation and configuration of the OS.
by Anonymous Coward
on Tuesday April 29 2008, @06:29PM (#23245946)
Vendor A sees the encouragement from Dell and does nothing.
Vendor B sees the encouragement, makes open source drivers and advertises to Dell
Dell switches to Vendor B.
I see vendors who are trying to become component suppliers for Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc, to take these encouragements as meaning "If you can do this, we have a reason for choosing your product over "Generic PC part manufacturer 38321"".
Sure the big names may not budge (nVidia, Creative, etc) but hey how many PC's are shipped w/ brand name parts?
It's even better than you surmise.
When folks like Dell start shipping boxes with components inside that have Open Source drivers, it won't be long before the nVidia's of the world sit up, take notice, discover that there's money to be made, and then start producing drivers for their stuff too.
They'd have to be mad, not to.
There's a tipping point that's being approached, and once it gets crossed, the Open Source avalanche is on for real.
And my gut reaction is that we're closer to that tipping point t
The problem is, the nVidias of the world are already losing to the Intels of the world. And they're firm in their belief that Intel is winning laptops because they're a low margin, low feature product. They're right, sadly. nVidia knows there's money to be made, but don't think sharing their driver code would make people pick them. It might lead to discovering a few interesting ideas in their drivers that propgate to other drivers, but more likely is a large set of bugs will be exposed and all those patent
There is a difference between "strongly encouraged" and "required". Until it is required then it is not going to change much - the big hardware providers hold too much sway for Dell et al. to cancel multimillion (if not billion) dollar contracts because they won't provide the source code for a couple of piddly little drivers.
A step in the right direction if they genuinely mean it, but if it is just disingenuous chatter to "keep the OSS camp happy" then it is just PR.
Another point is to get these vendors to release open documentation for their hardware as well. It's all fair and good to release open source drivers, but if they are like the crappy, obfuscated nv drivers that nVIDIA put out then I'm going to have to say no thanks.
There is a difference between "strongly encouraged" and "required". Until it is required then it is not going to change much - the big hardware providers hold too much sway for Dell et al. to cancel multimillion (if not billion) dollar contracts because they won't provide the source code for a couple of piddly little drivers.
Obviously, but there's a give and get in negotiations. I've dealt with enough RFQs that I know it's a wishlist and a bargaining ground and all the wanted features have a value. It's not a matter of getting the contract or not, it's a matter of whether the manufacturers can use this to squeeze margins. If providing open source drivers costs them less than the alternatives (lower price, developing other features etc) then it'll happen, even though they'd get a contract regardless. When it comes down to it, u
I hold out hope that, at the very least, those vendors with decent OSS support will slowly start to be favored, especially for basic hardware like network or graphics cards. I can't tell you how annoying it is to discover that, with no warning from the manufacturer, I find a Broadcom wireless card in a computer and have to come up with a kludgish workaround. Vendors may not be able to simply cancel contracts, but they certainly can show favoritism, especially when there is not much of a price difference (
There is a difference between "strongly encouraged" and "required". Until it is required then it is not going to change much - the big hardware providers hold too much sway for Dell et al. to cancel multimillion (if not billion) dollar contracts because they won't provide the source code for a couple of piddly little drivers.
It does, however, send a clear message to the companies as they look for ways to differentiate themselves from their competitors that this is one of those ways, and that it will carr
Computer companies need the flexibility to change their offerings to meet changing market conditions. The Eee PC has made consumers aware of Linux. Here in New Zealand, Linux-loaded Acer laptops are available at some retail stores and sell quite quickly - I'm using one right now. Even Apple has had a beneficial effect for Linux because they have encouraged people to look beyond Windows. Of course MS have helped too by shipping Vista and building a negative perception (whether warranted or not is beside the
There is a difference between "strongly encouraged" and "required". Until it is required then it is not going to change much
When a Dell or a Walmart "strongly encourage" that a supplier does something it is akin to the mafia "strongly encouraging" that the local Italian eatery "purchase its security services". Suppliers who ignore such customers' "encouragement" tend to disappear.
The only way a supplier can ignore such encouragement and survive is if they are significantly larger than the customer and can
Are you serious? A major change is not going to happen overnight. It is a slow and tedious process. End users had to be relentless to get PC makers to acknowledge there is desire, interest, and benefit to support OSS. What has happened in recent years? Major advancements in OSS proliferation. Dell and IBM are some big names that have really made some good progress towards brining OSS into the mainstream. Now they are bringing up the fight to hardware vendors. It takes time. Relax. Dont be so cynical.
This is definitely a step forward for the F/OSS community. Not only is most hardware supported already under Linux (even "obsolete" stuff and processor architectures that are no longer produced), but now the major box builders are taking steps to make sure your hardware will be recognized. Sure, this doesn't necessarily mean that drivers will be available for all products, but it does essentially mean that these large companies are standing with the F/OSS community (especially Linux, as this is the best kno
Most hardware? Which hardware is "most". Not wireless drivers, not graphics cards properly, does bluetooth work right, how about mobile phone access beyond seeing it as a mass storage device? Linux needs similar support from many many companies before you can make a statement like this.
Well.. Off the top of my head, Sound cards, video cards, SATA interfaces, CD and DVD drives, floppy drives, memory interfaces, mother board chipsets, processors, keyboards, mice, network cards, monitors, video cards, MP3 players, TV tuner cards, printers, scanners, temperature and fan speed monitoring sensors on motherboards, and many more devices. Linux is already more functional on first boot than Windows has ever been. It doesn't support all models from all suppliers, but nothing does, so pointing out a specific brand and model is not going to fly as a criticism. When I install Fedora 9 next month, the only drivers I need to install are my video card and perhaps my printer, although even that was already in the CUPS driver list with F8. Everything else is already in place and automatically detected. Not to mention support for common systems like mass storage which allow the use of USB keys, MP3 players, card readers, cameras, external hard drive caddies etc.
Not wireless drivers,
Correction.. Not ALL wifi drivers. Ask the FCC or whatever the local equivalent is. A Wifi card is a radio transmitter Thus is bound by strict regulations. 100% Open source drivers for a wifi card basically allow the informed user to muck around with a radio transmitter, which depending on the band, is illegal. Change the law, and Wifi could be universally supported within a very short time, instead of just some chip sets. Much of it already is. Otherwise there would be no way for the Eee to connect to a wireless hub, or for my N800 to connect to the Internet, which would be pretty awkward for a wireless Internet tablet.
not graphics cards properly,
No? Then how come my Nvidia card works flawlessly under Fedora. And has since I put it in my Linux box. Even the thermal sensor works and displays in Gkrellm's (Linux system monitor) sensor display. It's currently running at 53 degrees centigrade in case you are interested. 3D acceleration is also functioning perfectly, so I can play NWN under Wine or via the Linux client, And any Linux game that needs 3D features works well. Compiz Fusion also works very well, which it couldn't without the Nvidia drivers being installed. ATI is also in the process of releasing open drivers for some of it's cards, and Intel have had their cards supported for years with open drivers. Nvidia will very likely follow if they can work around the complications of the various IP restrictions in their drivers.
does bluetooth work right,
Yes. Plug and play. In my experience, easier than Windows. No driver to install, no software to install. It "just works". So I only have to plug my bluetooth dongle into any USB port and I can transfer files across effortlessly from my PDA or from my N800. I can also use my bluetooth GPS module with Fedora and my N800, but in the case of Fedora, it is a bit redundant as it's a desktop, and unless my home gets caught up in a tornado, it is unlikely to be changing location. In Fedora 9 I can also synchronize my Palm via bluetooth out of the box even with a live CD, so minimal functionality. Can Windows do that? Windows can't even recognize my Palm without me installing the drivers and an application to handle the PDA, and XP home needs extra software to share the Internet connection with my palm after a complicated set up procedure.
how about mobile phone access beyond seeing it as a mass storage device?
No idea. I don't have a mobile. Although I can't see any compelling reason why not. Some phones use Linux right now, and with the various Linux based phones in development at the moment, there will be more likelihood of support. Bluetooth has recently got a support boost and more bluetooth features are being activated.
Linux needs similar support from many many companies before you can make a statement like this.
Linux already HAS support from many companies. Apart from corner case s
Sue them for what ? What kind of damages could you possibly claim ?
There is no law requiring a hardware manufacturer to release the source code for their drivers or to support multiple operating systems etc. (whether there should be is a whole different topic). Not to mention that to sue someone is to take them to CIVIL court to get compensation for damages that they caused you and has absolutely nothing to do with criminal or anti-trust matters etc.
Microsoft got in hot water because they abused their monopo
Good luck with that. Many (all?) hardware vendors have proprietary designs. Darn. nVidia and ATI/AMD might sport over open source drivers and be happy about it, but Broadcom has a long history of not wanting to open-source their firmware. They consider it a competitive advantage, apparently, and too precious to give away.
I hear Broadcom WiFi hardware is becoming less and less popular these days. A lesson being learned?
Still, if the hardware vendor wants to protect their IP, sometimes this will collide wi
We're not talking about designs, we're talking about drivers. Two totally different things.
Also, neither NVidia nor ATI produce open source drivers although ATI recently released specs to aid in development of open source drivers. Again, these are just specs how to interface with the card, not super top secret details about the inner workings of the card. There is nothing valuable about the interface.
Did anyone notice ballmer say no more xp because the customers do not want.
Then Dell stood up and said I want. balllmer conceded and recognized his master.
No Linux or other desktop OS means MS could have said no, you do not want; and so dell would have not wanted, for there was nothing.
Vendors using Linux means they may say I DO NOT WANT to microsoft in the future and microsoft would EPIC FAIL. bill has aids to cure in africa, no time for MS
that some people are have towards the "strong recommendation", I point out that this is how businesses negotiate. It starts with "we want you to", followed by the vendor response. It's the, "I asked you nicely approach"... If the vendor doesn't respond, then the ante will be upped. The PC sellers need more market. Things are pretty cutthroat for the Dell's and HP's of the world. If the vendor doesn't help in the company in its move to expand its market... yeah, pressure will be brought... and in this case, L
This is also how businesses appease a loud but small market segment. They make some noise, but don't actually do anything. When the hardware manufacturers don't comply, they can shift the blame on them.
I have a feeling that this vendor push of open source drivers combined with falling prices of hardware (because of increased penetration around the world) will lead to the end of MS as a leading OS supplier for desktops. If more open source drivers are available, this will lead to cheap commodity boxes that run Linux, and these boxes will target users that use a computer only for the Internet and Word Processing (this is already happening with Wal-Mart computers). The base for the Internet/Word processor computer is growing so fast that it is inevitable that MS will falter.
Once the base of household Linux computers becomes big enough (I'm guesstimating 3%), commodity application developers (low cost applications first) will see Linux as a market, the prices of these boxes will fall further, and both these factors will contribute to further increased market share for Linux. More drivers for external peripherals will also become an industry practice (many leading companies already have Linux drivers for peripherals like printers and all-in-ones).
At some point, premium application developers for Apple and MS platforms will see that it worth their time to make a Linux port (it may happen quicker because of how relatively simple it would be to make the port from Apple to Linux). Again, this will be followed by increased market share for Linux.
Once the Linux market share becomes substantial (I don't know how much, say 10%?) the corporate world will realize the gazillion dollars in savings, and make the switch, and MS's fall will be complete. I don't know what will happen to Apple, I think they will be around with the largest desktop share if Jobs is around, considering how well he's boosting market share for Apple (with his history, he might even buy MS out of spite).
Bill Gates charities look a little smaller now, a pity actually, but Buffet will remain strong, so Gates will still have a good job.
Firefox is barely hanging on with 10-12% web browser marketshare, and it's avalible on all computers past and present, including those with windows. Apple hovers between 3-7%. I'm reasonably sure that linux is less than 1% of the desktop market. I can't really see Linux eating into Windows' share, more like eating into Apple's. I'm getting ready to switch from apple to linux as soon as they fix the voicechat bug in wine for TF2. There are already lots of developers for posix compliant OSes. Really you only
I don't see why people think this is a bad thing. A big company like Dell can bankrupt smaller companies overnight just by failing to renew a contract or not ordering more parts. They already squeeze them tight for the best prices and only pay them for any components they use - those stocks taking up space in Dell's warehouse don't cost them a penny until they go into a machine (That's already been paid for by the buyer). So imagine if two companies had say...wireless cards. One has a major deal with Dell, bu
One has a major deal with Dell, but no Open Drivers, then the other announces they suddenly have Open Drivers. Is it anything on Dell's head to tell the first company to either cough up some open drivers or come and pick up their unused parts before they get discarded?
Yes. Dell needs to have multiple vendors in their pipeline so they can get them to compete where they really care, on price, as Dell usually buys the cheapest part X available on a given day from whomever. At least for consumer desktops, that is how they operate. I seriously doubt open source drivers are going to be a consideration on the low end and they sure haven't been in the past (speaking as someone who ordered hundreds of the same model from them only to find a wide variety of parts actually inside
Why can't they just say that they won't even consider buying any hardware that doesn't have Linux drivers?
Saying "strongly encourage" with other big companies in a public forum like this is the nice, business way of saying "There are already Intel wireless cards with good open source drivers, if broadcom doesn't get with the program, we'll dump them; but we're not naming names because we're playing nicey-nice... for now."
have to lose. I always wondered why device drivers are not open source. As they make their money on the hardware they're not losing anything by giving the driver piece to the open source community to enhance. It's worked for Linksys routers. I wouldn't have purchased my particular Linksys unless I knew I could put HyperWrt on it.
I always wondered why device drivers are not open source. As they make their money on the hardware they're not losing anything by giving the driver piece to the open source community to enhance.
Reasons include: they don't like providing anything they do for free because a competitor might use it, they don't want to expose their embarrassingly poorly written code, they're afraid their poorly written code will expose their security flaws, they don't want consumers to know about the hacks they use to work around hardware flaws or which compromise quality for speed.
Also, they cut corners on development costs by buying some of the code and legally can't open source it - e.g. some proprietary codecs, or signal processing technology.
This is certainly good news for Free OS adoption and use. Increasing the availability of information and drivers should make life easier for anybody who wants to run one.
That said, though, it may well be that the PC vendors have other benefits in mind as well. Even under Windows, where hardware is generally supported, current OEM drivers have some annoying faults. Interface consistency is abominable at all stages of the process. Driver install packages are a thin layer of Vendor branding wrapped around the OEM's dubious taste in interface design. The installation inevitably includes a haphazard mixture of configuration applets, horrid little tray utilities, and weird looking menus bludgeoned into the standard Windows configuration screens. A basic consumer desktop is likely to have driver packages from several different OEMs, ensuring significant visual and interface inconsistency.
The system I'm typing on right now(a basic Dell desktop box) is hardly unusual. Some audio options are available through the standard Vista audio config widget, others are available through realtech's audio widget. Both widgets have little "speaker" tray icons and have completely different interfaces(Vista's widget is boring, Realtech's looks like a clip-art explosion in a crab and chrome factory). Video is a similar story. NVIDIA and Vista have an uneasy set of overlapping controls, each with its own dubious aesthetics. Although this system is spared, the same thing is common with both wired and wireless ethernet controllers, scanners, printers(I'm looking at you HP), and whatnot.
I suspect that the PC vendors would love to be able to use OSS driver code from the OEMs to push this disorganized mess under a consistent interface. Even if they don't care at all about Linux, that would be a fairly easy way to make the Windows experience more pleasant, and more competitive with OSX, which already enforces a fair bit more consistency on OEM drivers. Being able to swap vendors without making the slightest visually apparent change would also likely be a nice bonus.
Well with persistent enough developers the source code could be used as the basis for reverse engineering truly free drivers. Just like what the nouveau developers are doing with using the obfuscated nv drivers as a branching off point for their driver.
Comments like these are why i still read at -1! Vendors having these intentions are are good sign, but until it's more than a third of vendors (rtfa) it's not that hard a push, even though a few of the big ones are in.
To be perfectly honest, this article is much more about what linux foundation wants and needs, than about what vendors demand of suppliers. I wish there had been some links to the actual story in the headline.
Nothing to see here, move along, and remember to encourage your dog to shit outside!
It's not any different for Windows. If the driver doesn't have the device id, it won't work.
The real question is what exactly do open source drivers mean. Does it mean Linux drivers? Does it mean windows drivers with source? There are big differences. If this article refers to linux drivers, it should say linux and not open source since I don't see drivers for *BSD from most companies.
windows and linux will have an unfair advantage over the other operating systems.
What other operating systems? BSD? OS/2? I think you're missing the point. If hardware vendors open source their drivers (even if only a linux version) than at the very least reverse engineering and tweaking to make it work with other OSes becomes much easier. At least we'll have something to work with, even if it's an undocumented mess like nvidia's open source. Open sourcing helps level the playing field, and I think that's what the OSS community is after. Let's face it, for personal computing on x86
So... (Score:5, Interesting)
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2) then all machines
3) then if certain products still don't have an open source driver option threaten to get in the market
4) last resort do it yourself
OEMs have a lot of power if they use it
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Consider the choice between the sub-standard $10 component with closed source drivers vs. the superior $12 component. Call the producer of the latter and say, "we need 50.000, but only if you slap an open source license on the driver", and see what happens.
This won't make the difference. (Score:3, Interesting)
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linux != open source.
Opensource drivers, especially open documentation is far far better.
And running is better than crawling, but you have to do some of the latter before you can do the former.
Closed drivers at first, but when the market is sufficiently important, open drivers can be pushed for. Dell stated some time ago, that they would take closed drivers when there was nothing else, but open drivers were preferable. Preferable to Dell means thousands of units a week, so the hardware manufacturers tend to listen to Dell's preferences.
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Are you a time traveler from like 6 years ago or something?
The industry norm today is to provide open drivers and/or open specs. There are no types of common hardware components for which there isn't already a player on the market who is doing that - anyone who is screwing around with new proprietary Linux drivers in 2008 has missed the bus and is basically just wasting their resources for no good reason.
The time for screwing around with closed drivers is over. There are a few holdovers: Nvidia and Broadc
How about pushing for open specs instead? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Now, if that is their goal, they'll find w
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ummm.. No.
All it will do is lower the cost by the amount the license costs. And it will apply to all the PC makers. So the cost of all PCs drop by about 20 bucks. Maybe not 20 bucks, but these PC makers do not pay retail, not by a long shot. When I was in that business, Win NT cost 15 bucks from MS.
The biggest cost is the installation and configuration of the OS.
Re:So... (Score:5, Insightful)
Vendor B sees the encouragement, makes open source drivers and advertises to Dell
Dell switches to Vendor B.
I see vendors who are trying to become component suppliers for Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc, to take these encouragements as meaning "If you can do this, we have a reason for choosing your product over "Generic PC part manufacturer 38321"".
Sure the big names may not budge (nVidia, Creative, etc) but hey how many PC's are shipped w/ brand name parts?
Parent
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A difference... (Score:4, Interesting)
A step in the right direction if they genuinely mean it, but if it is just disingenuous chatter to "keep the OSS camp happy" then it is just PR.
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There is a difference between "strongly encouraged" and "required". Until it is required then it is not going to change much - the big hardware providers hold too much sway for Dell et al. to cancel multimillion (if not billion) dollar contracts because they won't provide the source code for a couple of piddly little drivers.
Obviously, but there's a give and get in negotiations. I've dealt with enough RFQs that I know it's a wishlist and a bargaining ground and all the wanted features have a value. It's not a matter of getting the contract or not, it's a matter of whether the manufacturers can use this to squeeze margins. If providing open source drivers costs them less than the alternatives (lower price, developing other features etc) then it'll happen, even though they'd get a contract regardless. When it comes down to it, u
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It does, however, send a clear message to the companies as they look for ways to differentiate themselves from their competitors that this is one of those ways, and that it will carr
No. Dell need the flexibility to change (Score:2)
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When a Dell or a Walmart "strongly encourage" that a supplier does something it is akin to the mafia "strongly encouraging" that the local Italian eatery "purchase its security services". Suppliers who ignore such customers' "encouragement" tend to disappear.
The only way a supplier can ignore such encouragement and survive is if they are significantly larger than the customer and can
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Recognition of F/OSS, especially Linux (Score:2, Interesting)
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Re:Recognition of F/OSS, especially Linux (Score:5, Informative)
Most hardware? Which hardware is "most".
Well.. Off the top of my head, Sound cards, video cards, SATA interfaces, CD and DVD drives, floppy drives, memory interfaces, mother board chipsets, processors, keyboards, mice, network cards, monitors, video cards, MP3 players, TV tuner cards, printers, scanners, temperature and fan speed monitoring sensors on motherboards, and many more devices. Linux is already more functional on first boot than Windows has ever been. It doesn't support all models from all suppliers, but nothing does, so pointing out a specific brand and model is not going to fly as a criticism. When I install Fedora 9 next month, the only drivers I need to install are my video card and perhaps my printer, although even that was already in the CUPS driver list with F8. Everything else is already in place and automatically detected. Not to mention support for common systems like mass storage which allow the use of USB keys, MP3 players, card readers, cameras, external hard drive caddies etc.
Not wireless drivers,
Correction.. Not ALL wifi drivers. Ask the FCC or whatever the local equivalent is. A Wifi card is a radio transmitter Thus is bound by strict regulations. 100% Open source drivers for a wifi card basically allow the informed user to muck around with a radio transmitter, which depending on the band, is illegal. Change the law, and Wifi could be universally supported within a very short time, instead of just some chip sets. Much of it already is. Otherwise there would be no way for the Eee to connect to a wireless hub, or for my N800 to connect to the Internet, which would be pretty awkward for a wireless Internet tablet.
not graphics cards properly,
No? Then how come my Nvidia card works flawlessly under Fedora. And has since I put it in my Linux box. Even the thermal sensor works and displays in Gkrellm's (Linux system monitor) sensor display. It's currently running at 53 degrees centigrade in case you are interested. 3D acceleration is also functioning perfectly, so I can play NWN under Wine or via the Linux client, And any Linux game that needs 3D features works well. Compiz Fusion also works very well, which it couldn't without the Nvidia drivers being installed. ATI is also in the process of releasing open drivers for some of it's cards, and Intel have had their cards supported for years with open drivers. Nvidia will very likely follow if they can work around the complications of the various IP restrictions in their drivers.
does bluetooth work right,
Yes. Plug and play. In my experience, easier than Windows. No driver to install, no software to install. It "just works". So I only have to plug my bluetooth dongle into any USB port and I can transfer files across effortlessly from my PDA or from my N800. I can also use my bluetooth GPS module with Fedora and my N800, but in the case of Fedora, it is a bit redundant as it's a desktop, and unless my home gets caught up in a tornado, it is unlikely to be changing location.
In Fedora 9 I can also synchronize my Palm via bluetooth out of the box even with a live CD, so minimal functionality. Can Windows do that? Windows can't even recognize my Palm without me installing the drivers and an application to handle the PDA, and XP home needs extra software to share the Internet connection with my palm after a complicated set up procedure.
how about mobile phone access beyond seeing it as a mass storage device?
No idea. I don't have a mobile. Although I can't see any compelling reason why not. Some phones use Linux right now, and with the various Linux based phones in development at the moment, there will be more likelihood of support. Bluetooth has recently got a support boost and more bluetooth features are being activated.
Linux needs similar support from many many companies before you can make a statement like this.
Linux already HAS support from many companies. Apart from corner case s
Parent
If I had a operating system software company (Score:2)
The reason being is that they are only supporting Monopolysoft with drivers.
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What kind of damages could you possibly claim ?
There is no law requiring a hardware manufacturer to release the source code for their drivers or to support multiple operating systems etc. (whether there should be is a whole different topic). Not to mention that to sue someone is to take them to CIVIL court to get compensation for damages that they caused you and has absolutely nothing to do with criminal or anti-trust matters etc.
Microsoft got in hot water because they abused their monopo
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Many (all?) hardware vendors have proprietary designs. Darn. nVidia and ATI/AMD might sport over open source drivers and be happy about it, but Broadcom has a long history of not wanting to open-source their firmware. They consider it a competitive advantage, apparently, and too precious to give away.
I hear Broadcom WiFi hardware is becoming less and less popular these days. A lesson being learned?
Still, if the hardware vendor wants to protect their IP, sometimes this will collide wi
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Also, neither NVidia nor ATI produce open source drivers although ATI recently released specs to aid in development of open source drivers. Again, these are just specs how to interface with the card, not super top secret details about the inner workings of the card. There is nothing valuable about the interface.
Vendor's Real Intent (Score:2, Interesting)
Then Dell stood up and said I want. balllmer conceded and recognized his master.
No Linux or other desktop OS means MS could have said no, you do not want; and so dell would have not wanted, for there was nothing.
Vendors using Linux means they may say I DO NOT WANT to microsoft in the future and microsoft would EPIC FAIL. bill has aids to cure in africa, no time for MS
While I understand the cynicism... (Score:2)
If the vendor doesn't respond, then the ante will be upped. The PC sellers need more market. Things are pretty cutthroat for the Dell's and HP's of the world. If the vendor doesn't help in the company in its move to expand its market... yeah, pressure will be brought... and in this case, L
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No way of knowing what will really come of it.
The End Of MS As We Know IT (Score:4, Insightful)
Once the base of household Linux computers becomes big enough (I'm guesstimating 3%), commodity application developers (low cost applications first) will see Linux as a market, the prices of these boxes will fall further, and both these factors will contribute to further increased market share for Linux. More drivers for external peripherals will also become an industry practice (many leading companies already have Linux drivers for peripherals like printers and all-in-ones).
At some point, premium application developers for Apple and MS platforms will see that it worth their time to make a Linux port (it may happen quicker because of how relatively simple it would be to make the port from Apple to Linux). Again, this will be followed by increased market share for Linux.
Once the Linux market share becomes substantial (I don't know how much, say 10%?) the corporate world will realize the gazillion dollars in savings, and make the switch, and MS's fall will be complete. I don't know what will happen to Apple, I think they will be around with the largest desktop share if Jobs is around, considering how well he's boosting market share for Apple (with his history, he might even buy MS out of spite).
Bill Gates charities look a little smaller now, a pity actually, but Buffet will remain strong, so Gates will still have a good job.
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Makes sense to me (Score:2)
They already squeeze them tight for the best prices and only pay them for any components they use - those stocks taking up space in Dell's warehouse don't cost them a penny until they go into a machine (That's already been paid for by the buyer).
So imagine if two companies had say...wireless cards. One has a major deal with Dell, bu
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One has a major deal with Dell, but no Open Drivers, then the other announces they suddenly have Open Drivers. Is it anything on Dell's head to tell the first company to either cough up some open drivers or come and pick up their unused parts before they get discarded?
Yes. Dell needs to have multiple vendors in their pipeline so they can get them to compete where they really care, on price, as Dell usually buys the cheapest part X available on a given day from whomever. At least for consumer desktops, that is how they operate. I seriously doubt open source drivers are going to be a consideration on the low end and they sure haven't been in the past (speaking as someone who ordered hundreds of the same model from them only to find a wide variety of parts actually inside
Strongly encourage? (Score:2)
ooooh and if you don't provide linux drivers we'll still buy your hardware but we will wag our finger at you and tell your mom.
Why can't they just say that they won't even consider buying any hardware that doesn't have Linux drivers?
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What do hardware manufactures... (Score:2)
Re:What do hardware manufactures... (Score:5, Informative)
Reasons include: they don't like providing anything they do for free because a competitor might use it, they don't want to expose their embarrassingly poorly written code, they're afraid their poorly written code will expose their security flaws, they don't want consumers to know about the hacks they use to work around hardware flaws or which compromise quality for speed.
Parent
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Best answer to this question I've seen in a pretty good while.
Re:What do hardware manufactures... (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
HP (Score:2)
Probably more than just Linux (Score:3, Insightful)
That said, though, it may well be that the PC vendors have other benefits in mind as well. Even under Windows, where hardware is generally supported, current OEM drivers have some annoying faults. Interface consistency is abominable at all stages of the process. Driver install packages are a thin layer of Vendor branding wrapped around the OEM's dubious taste in interface design. The installation inevitably includes a haphazard mixture of configuration applets, horrid little tray utilities, and weird looking menus bludgeoned into the standard Windows configuration screens. A basic consumer desktop is likely to have driver packages from several different OEMs, ensuring significant visual and interface inconsistency.
The system I'm typing on right now(a basic Dell desktop box) is hardly unusual. Some audio options are available through the standard Vista audio config widget, others are available through realtech's audio widget. Both widgets have little "speaker" tray icons and have completely different interfaces(Vista's widget is boring, Realtech's looks like a clip-art explosion in a crab and chrome factory). Video is a similar story. NVIDIA and Vista have an uneasy set of overlapping controls, each with its own dubious aesthetics. Although this system is spared, the same thing is common with both wired and wireless ethernet controllers, scanners, printers(I'm looking at you HP), and whatnot.
I suspect that the PC vendors would love to be able to use OSS driver code from the OEMs to push this disorganized mess under a consistent interface. Even if they don't care at all about Linux, that would be a fairly easy way to make the Windows experience more pleasant, and more competitive with OSX, which already enforces a fair bit more consistency on OEM drivers. Being able to swap vendors without making the slightest visually apparent change would also likely be a nice bonus.
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Vendors having these intentions are are good sign, but until it's more than a third of vendors (rtfa) it's not that hard a push, even though a few of the big ones are in.
To be perfectly honest, this article is much more about what linux foundation wants and needs, than about what vendors demand of suppliers.
I wish there had been some links to the actual story in the headline.
Nothing to see here, move along, and remember to encourage your dog to shit outside!
+1! (Score:2)
Exactly... often the fragments of genius are at either end of the spectrum.
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The real question is what exactly do open source drivers mean. Does it mean Linux drivers? Does it mean windows drivers with source? There are big differences. If this article refers to linux drivers, it should say linux and not open source since I don't see drivers for *BSD from most companies.
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windows and linux will have an unfair advantage over the other operating systems.
What other operating systems? BSD? OS/2? I think you're missing the point. If hardware vendors open source their drivers (even if only a linux version) than at the very least reverse engineering and tweaking to make it work with other OSes becomes much easier. At least we'll have something to work with, even if it's an undocumented mess like nvidia's open source. Open sourcing helps level the playing field, and I think that's what the OSS community is after. Let's face it, for personal computing on x86
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