The REAL Reason We Use Linux

Vlad Dolezal writes "We tell people we use Linux because it's secure. Or because it's free, because it's customizable, because it has excellent community support... But all of that is just marketing BS. We tell that to non-Linux users because they wouldn't understand the REAL reason." The answer to his question probably won't surprise you.

It would be good...

[Port1080]

If the editors didn't strip away the story link [anamazingmind.com] from the article when they posted it, yes?

Re:It would be good...

[Peeet]

Thank you for posting that. For those of us too lazy to even click on the link, the reason is "Because it is fun." Good afternoon, good evening and goodnight.

Re:'All powerful' root?

[zig007]

Yes, and I've also had Linux do the same thing. It didn't give an error, but no matter how many times I "kill -9"ed it the process never paid attention to the command and carried on churning away. I guess that's the process rather than the OS, but it's still not always "all-powerful root".

:
Well, to be THAT powerful you have to use other commands, because it's probably because the process is in an interruptible state, relevant post here:
http://www.wplug.org/pipermail/wplug/2004-June/022380.html [wplug.org]

Re:And this is why Linux is still laughed at...

[Anonymous Coward]

I tried using Linux multiple times from when I downloaded my first copy of Red Hat in 1999 or so, through some attempts with Mandrake and SuSe. None of them "just worked" - driver support was missing, programs didn't work as expected (or work at all), etc, etc.

I've used Linux since I got started on Slackware in the mid 90s. Apart from drivers, after about 1998 or so, I haven't had any broken-out-of-the-box experiences, and that includes Redhat and Redhat-derivatives in the same time period you are talking about.

What kind of problems are you talking about? What is "etc, etc"? You make it sound like there were masses upon masses of problems, but in my experience, so long as you aren't expecting it to be a 100% duplicate of Windows and use supported hardware, there isn't anything serious to complain about at all.

Re:'All powerful' root?

[Anonymous Coward]

My guess is that your process got stuck in uninterruptible sleep, which mostly means "waiting for I/O", for example from a crippled disk.

A process /can't/ ignore a kill -9 with anything less, I believe, although I have to check my trusty APUE to tell for sure.

perverse economics of proprietary apps

[bcrowell]

I use Linux because proprietary apps suck to high heaven, and if you want to run OSS (desktop) apps, Linux is by far the best system.

There's a horribly perverse system of incentives pervading the economics of proprietary apps. A user buying a proprietary GUI app typically has no way of knowing whether it's slow and/or buggy until he's already bought it. Performance is hard to judge until you have it loaded on your own system, and bugginess is hard to judge because the vendor does their best to keep bugs secret, and generally succeeds very well. Because buyers can't make decisions based on performance and quality, they tend to buy based on features. So vendors have a huge economic incentive to bloat their feature list, and push slow, buggy products out the door.

Two experiences that helped to sour me completely on proprietary software:

1. Bought a copy of Mathematica for my Mac back in the 90's. Upgraded to a new version of MacOS. Mathematica stopped working. Called Wolfram. They told me my only option was to buy a new version of Mathematica.
2. Bought Adobe PageMaker 6.5 (?) ca. 1997. Wrote a book in it. Found out it was horribly buggy, and was constantly corrupting files. Adobe's tech support came up with lots of excuses to explain why it wasn't their fault.

I teach physics at a community college. Recently I started working on a project to clean up the horribly messed up software situation in our student computer labs. Perfect example of what a mistake it can be to hitch your wagon to proprietary software. We have all these proprietary Windows apps. Every app has a different licensing scheme, and some of them have no explicitly stated licensing scheme at all (e.g., CD-ROMs that came with textbooks). Nobody can find half the original disks and licenses. Some software was bought to run on DOS or Windows 95, and isn't compatible with Windows XP. Some software is abandonware. In one case, faculty are downloading a particular piece of DOS abandonware/shareware from an untrusted third-party site every time they need to teach a particular activity -- can't ask IT to permanently install it, because the vendor is gone, so random people are just posting the .EXE on their web sites, without so much as a checksum. The whole thing is a nightmare.

Re:Software not available elsewhere

[SpammersAreScum]

Uh, what? My Windows system (it's my company's laptop, OK?) has emacs, and (thanks to cygwin) grep, sed, awk, and shell commands for file management. No hacking or ill-behaved emulator, and no issues.

Re:Because it works!

[Jesus_666]

Actually, Linux is also a superior programming environment for languages like C. A friend of mine is pulling his hair out because he's writing an app on Windows and lots of standard functions are implemented differently than everywhere else (eg. errno being replaced by WSAGetLastError) and MinGW apparently suffers from ages-old bugs like vsnprintf returning -1 if the supplied buffer is too small - which was fixed after glibc-2.0.

Under Linux you can be reasonably sure that everything works as intended by the C/C++/POSIX standard. That's a huge asset.

Re:The REAL reason we use Linux

[Antique Geekmeister]

Walruses. Walruses argue very successfully with penguins.

Re:Well there's a reason I can take to my boss

[magus_melchior]

Note: The author meant the reason why Linux users use Linux, not reasons why your boss should pay to deploy Linux in your company. If you're looking for the latter, find an IT rag that PHBs would read.

Re:It would be good...

[GospelHead821]

My experience is mostly similar. I've tried various flavours of Ubuntu and they were modestly easy to set up and very easy to maintain. The real rub, for me, was that when something DIDN'T automagically work or when I accidentally broke something, I could kiss that installation goodbye. My best hope was a Google search for the error that I was experiencing and hope that copying the listed instructions verbatim would solve the problem. If it didn't, it usually left the computer in worse shape than when I began. One might argue that I shouldn't be giving my computer instructions that I don't understand, but the alternative is reinstalling anyway. At this point, I've decided to give up on Linux for another couple of years. It's easier this year than when I tried it two years ago, which was easier than the two years before that. I'll put Windows 2000 back on my laptop and give Linux another shot in 2010.

No, but Linux itself shares a lot of blame

[Sycraft-fu]

You have to accept that for various reasons, a number of companies aren't willing to do OSS and that includes drivers. You also have to accept that Linux is by far the minority OS out there. Well, given that, you need to make it easy for a company to release a driver for Linux, in binary form, that will then continue to work for a long time. The problem is that the ABI isn't stable, it gets changed all the time so people who want to do binary drivers of various types have to change them all the time. The best example is graphics drivers. Every time there's a minor kernel update or a minor X update, that necessitates a new video driver. Fortunately, ATi and nVidia seem to be willing to do that, but you can see how companies might get a little sick of it. A graphics driver released for XP when it first came out still works just fine today, and will still work fine after the upcoming SP3.

So I can see why companies may not be so willing to support Linux. It isn't going to be high priority anyhow since there are simply way less Linux users than Windows users. However if it is going to end up occupying a whole bunch more resources, because you have to release new versions all the time, well then you just say "screw it" and don't have support.

Transparent.

[miffo.swe]

I love linux because its so transparent. Im an avid Windows user and work mostly with Windows machines but i cant stop admiring the complete transparacy of Linux. While an error in Windows usually demands a reinstall and the logs tell me absolutely nothing in Linux i can actually find the culprit and mend the error in a very short time.

Re:It would be good...

[Technician]

My favorite is not on the list.

Instead of being loaded with nagware, crippleware, and crapware that needs removed, it comes loaded with fully functional applications. It doesn't require paid upgrades to burn ISO's, use AV, create music CD's, use an office suite, etc.

Re:It would be good...

[x_MeRLiN_x]

If you don't hate Microsoft itself, I clearly wasn't referring to you. I've not heard that reason before, so you're definitely not part of the majority I spoke of either.

You also speak of using your OS as a hobby, which again, does not contradict my point about using Linux professionally. I think this article is pretty much spot on and most who are disagree may be in denial. I'm not willing to listen to anyone who says Microsoft's software and actions are judged objectively and by the same standard as their competitors - at least here on Slashdot.

For example, having to edit a handful of documented registry keys to re-enable old file formats in Office 2007 (ignoring the rights and wrongs of disabling them in the first place) is "ludicrous" and "impractical for 99% of the user-base", but much more complex command line actions are routinely required even on Ubuntu. I suggest that those who claim exclusive use of the GUI is sufficient are content with the default software and settings.

Re:It would be good...

[x_MeRLiN_x]

You don't know anything about what I use, you don't know what tasks I was talking about and you neglected to say what it is you do. How do I use Visual Studio on Linux/Mac? How do I use Photoshop on Linux? How do I use AutoCAD on Linux/Mac? These are all leading industry standard software suits (VS arguably less so) that just can't run on Linux without the exact unnecessary tinkering we're talking about.

I didn't wish to be drawn into a discussion about Linux vs. Windows and maybe I was unwise to have ever mentioned it.

Re:'All powerful' root?

[CTalkobt]

>> Yes, and I've also had Linux do the same thing. It didn't give an error, but no matter how many times I "kill -9"ed it the process never paid attention to the command and carried on churning away. I guess that's the process rather than the OS, but it's still not always "all-powerful root".

The reason is typically because the process is a Zombie process that no longer 'truly' exists. To remove it from the process list you'll need to kill the parent process. (See http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum40/1032.htm [webmasterworld.com] last comment for more details on what Zombie / Defunct process's really mean).

With windows it never makes any sense when a process refuses to die - at least with Linux I know there's a reason (and if you understand the details - they make sense).

Re:It would be good...

[x_MeRLiN_x]

You seem to be implying that is satisfactory, but those are exactly the times I'm talking about. I do like the way the Ubuntu forums are administered in that newbies are accommodated and not mocked for failing to spend hours trawling through Google results - that does seem to make them unusual in the Linux world. I've only ever had one problem with Windows that I was unable to quickly solve by myself and that was a minor issue with hibernation (which I don't use).

The first issue I encountered with Ubuntu was the fact that it wouldn't allow me to select a sensible resolution without editing xorg.conf - despite the fact that my monitor and video card was identified correctly by name. The next issue I came across happened minutes later and was even more serious - the title bars and borders of all windows disappeared so you could not move or resize them. This is not all that uncommon [google.co.uk].

I need to use to a lot of Windows software and WINE just doesn't cut it, not to mention (as I said elsewhere in this thread) the fact that hacks like WINE are the exact type of unnecessary tinkering people doing real work don't need.

Another problem is editing grub.conf to change the default boot order, but this is only marginally better on Windows. I would however expect a higher percentage of Linux users to be utilising more than one OS.

This mess concluded my latest attempt (it was the shortest trial yet - progress indeed) to use Linux as a desktop OS. I still use RHEL on my dedicated game/web server although every distribution insisting on having their own commands is very annoying when searching for a particular solution.

Re:It would be good...

[Kent Recal]

DOS != unix.

You're not re-learning DOS when you switch to linux.
Instead you're learning a true unix shell. Which gives you
access to a large library of insanely powerful, time-tested
commands that can be combined in an uncountable number of ways.

Those not only enable you to solve a large number of problems
(actually whole categories of problems) quicker and more reliable
than any GUI could but they further enable you to automate your
solutions for re-use.

What may seem "inconvenient" at first is your first
glimpse at the power of UNIX.

Don't discard it so quickly because it's only white text on
a black screen and "looks like DOS". It's not DOS.

Re:Installation

[thegrassyknowl]

Windows isn't perfect, but it's so far ahead of linux on the normal every day desktop experience it just isn't funny.

The fact that you rant on about graphics drivers and MP3 suggests one thing.... Never mind.

All the "major" distros (Ubuntu, Fedora, etc) ship with the X.org drivers for Nvidia and ATI. They are accelerated and work for the majority of users. AFIK both drivers will do dual head and TV out now as well. There's little need for the binary drivers unless you want uber 3D support (and really, at the moment Linux apps don't generally make great use of 3D).

The lack of MP3 is easily fixed in Ubuntu and Fedora. The wiki page for both explains the reasons for not shipping it (so they don't get sued out of existence). They also give the solution (open the GUI tool, add this thing, check that box install mp3 software and binary video drivers if you want them).

It's not a perfect solution, but what do you expect from something you can obtain for free? You're not going to pay the Ubuntu or Fedora projects so why should they pay licensing fees for the few things that you would expect to have in your distro but can't unless someone pays greedy patent holders? They're not stopping you from having them, but they are advising people to consider alternate formats in the interest of sending a message to greedy patent holders.

Windows is certainly far from perfect too. I can't install it on a machine then connect that machine to the Internet to get updates and download the requisite software because within a few minutes the POS operating system has been pwne3d by some worm/botnet/1337 h4x0rz. Oh did I mention that out of the box it's pretty much useless without thousands of dollars of other people's software? IF you are going to use all free software (FF, Thunderbird, OO.o, etc) then why not just use Linux because that's where it's all meant to run anyway.

Re:No, it's not fun

[Animats]

So basically you want the windows registry for LINUX!?!?

The Windows registry is not a database. It's an unstructured tree. There are no indices, no tables, no record structures, and no locking. You can't look up anything, other than by brute force.

Re:Installation

[Hatta]

Windows isn't perfect, but it's so far ahead of linux on the normal every day desktop experience it just isn't funny.

That's ridiculous. Sure you might have to spend 15 minutes setting up mp3 support or nvidia drivers the first time you install a system, but once you do it works and it works well. There are many basic desktop features that windows just doesn't support at all. Off the top of my head, virtual desktops, window shading, focus following mouse, keep on top, package management. Shit, you can't even have 2 users logged on at the same time if you're on a domain. These are basic features that I rely on every day that just don't work on windows.

Sure there are kludgy work arounds for windows: MSVDM crashes my software. VirtuaWin is incompatible with X-mouse, X-mouse doesn't work with photoshop. I use windows every day at work, and linux every home, and the linux desktop far outclasses windows in every way that matters. At least linux has an excuse, there are legal issues that prevent implementation of a few features. Windows has no excuse at all.

Re:Installation

[westyvw]

Windows isn't perfect, but it's so far ahead of linux on the normal every day desktop experience it just isn't funny.

Exactly opposite my experience, over and over again. Installation? I would take a linux install any day with MOST of the current Distro's. Just this past week I did this for someone else and even the end user was very excited with how easy it was to use. I was on the same machine, set up to dual boot, and the Windows side took A LOT more work. Anyway we have heard all this before. So lets get back to your point, it may ,of course depend on the Desktop environment you use, but I would have to say Windows is so far behind my Desktop Environment it just isnt funny I curse windows any time I have to use it.

Examples?

• I alt-print screen and then paste into a folder. My OS/WM knows its a bitmap
• I create a new OpenOffice document, and when I rename it I dont have to deal with the extension, it doesnt write over that (although for most things I dont need an extension anyways!)
• Files can be moved around and manipulated in dozens of ways and smoothly go from one app to another, or I can pipe with a shell
• Most printers, are set up just by plugging them in (this was a MAJOR hassle on the windows side of the computer I set up)
• Antivirus and Spyware? Whats that?
• I can put a window behind another by mouse clicking on it
• Move to different desktops to accomplish tasks without disrupting my workflow on my main desktop
• Copy and paste without having to right click
• Spell checking is integrated, in my language, and available for all programs to use
• The web browser can access files, web services, applications, and directories
• My file format does not get fragmented (NTFS- Nice Try at a File System)
• Users are easy to back up and migrate to new computers
• Delete files while they are in use, and update (in most cases) without a reboot
• If I choose to use a shell, it has a history and real tab completion and color coding
• When a file with a simular name and type is copied in the directory I get an option to view the metadata, see the picture, or hear the song to make an informed decision about what I should do, and it offers to automatically rename the file
• desktop windows can go to full size, or maximize in a horizontal or vertical plane
• I can leave all my windows open and shut down the computer, and they open back up automatically

Thats off the top of my head. And give me a break about the MP3 thing, windows media player is no saint, it can't play DVD's without a codec either, and it will do the usual windows routine of offering to find a codec that it of course can not. But it will waste your time looking for it. You have to hunt and search for codecs in Windows for lots of different formats. For example I use flac, its included in my distro by default, but windows? Nope.

So lets get serious: Windows, by default, is so far behind linux with a good desktop environment, that its not even in the running.

And for the record, I am not an Ubuntu fan, and don't think it's a good example of a powerful environment, albeit an easy one to use.

Re:And this is why Linux is still laughed at...

[inode_buddha]

What he said. The kernel and driver devs don't actually *want* your code, they are going to write their own anyhow. Rather what they *do* want is a full spec to write to. Even if they have to sign an NDA for the spec, as long as the code itself is free, many of them do.

You'd be surprised to know how many of the devs actually work for some very large companies. Just read the source and note the emails to get an idea of who works where. I did.

And I'm in the middle of a recompile right now, just to completely tune my kernel to my box.

Re:Installation

[tech10171968]

Package management (insofar as I understand what the duties of a package manager are) is provided with Add/Remove programs...

Wrong. Yes, one can use "Add/Remove" to install/uninstall in Windows; but the difference is that you still have to have the software disk. OTOH, with Synaptic and other package managers, the application you're installing comes from an online repository. Example: Let's say I want to install a certain driver. In Windows I would have to either (a) visit the vendor's website , download the driver, then install it or (b) already have the driver on a CD or thumbdrive; if you don't have the installation program the you can use "Add/Remove" all you want but Windows can't install something that isn't already there. In linux all I have to do is fire up Synaptic, find the driver from the list, and click install. No hunting down manufacturer's websites, no OEM rescue disks - nothing. Just click the box beside whatever you're wanting to install and press "Ok". That's it. "Add/Remove Programs" couldn't touch that with a ten-foot pole, but that may be an unfair assessment; "Add/Remove" and package managers aren't even the same thing.

Re:It would be good...

[Anonymous Drunkard]

Our house has been running Ubuntu since Breezy. My children (now aged 9, 12, and 15) found it very easy to adjust to; in fact, my then-13 year old was bragging to her classmates about how Linux rocked. She is a heavy OpenOffice user, being saddled with homework and all, but she also uses it for her music, photos, and other media apps.

My two younger children don't really use word processing yet - they spend their time on various interactive sites (Gaia, Club Penguin), and yet they are fully capable of customizing their environment. My 9 year old worked out how to create gradations and such in his background, and is teaching his older sister.

The kids also appreciate the fact (as do I) that if, for whatever reason, they need to be migrated to a different computer, all we have to do is copy their $HOME directory and recopy it onto their new disk. Presto, all their email, bookmarks, chat logs, documents, and custom settings are instantly there.

My oldest is amused because she can recharge her cell phone (Motorola Razr V3) by plugging into the USB port; likewise, all her friends' digital cameras are instantly found and their photos made available simply by plugging them in, and her MP3 device has similar instant functionality. Her windows friends all have to find (or buy) and install special software just for this.

Our experience, especially with our children, is that Ubuntu is easy for a child of relatively average intelligence to grasp and use. Plus, if they only have user accounts without root privileges, those who are curious (and please show me a child who is NOT curious) can customize their environment to their hearts content without screwing any settings up.

It's been about two years of solid win in this house.

Re:It would be good...

[macslas'hole]

How do I use Visual Studio on Linux/Mac? How do I use Photoshop on Linux? How do I use AutoCAD on Linux/Mac?

Both Parallels [parallels.com] and VMware [vmware.com] have products that will do this on either platform. I use Visual Studio on my Mac through Parallels daily; works like a champ. As a bonus, it lets me target and test as many configurations of Windows as I would like.

Re:Installation

[Sproggit]

Fuck focus following the mouse, how about NOT ALLOWING APPS TO STEAL FOCUS!!!
I've started creating docs in Open Office, and saving them in MS Office format, solely due to the fact that in Ubuntu I can tell the OS to NEVER steal focus, no "download completed" dialog boxes cocking up my painful hunt & peck typing style...

You don't fucking have to use a CLI.

[jotaeleemeese]

My mum is 70 and can use Ubuntu, she would not recognize a CLI if it hit her.

Lo and behold, she can install packages and say yes to the machine when new software needs to be installed.

It revolts me to hear other people whining about the CLI...