PC Mag Slams Cheap Wal-Mart Linux Desktop 671
An anonymous reader writes "PC Magazine reviews the $200 Linux desktop wonder sold by Wal-Mart. This desktop sold out quickly and has been cited as proof that consumers are tired of the Windows tax and ready for Linux. Not so according to PC Magazine, which gave the gPC a 1.5 star rating." Previous discussions we've had about system reviews were realistic but not quite so harsh; is this just nitpicking or is the 'shiny' starting to wear off of the cheap Linux PC concept?
Accurate, considering the caveats (Score:4, Insightful)
In other words: move along, nothing to see here.
Is this just nitpicking? Yes. (Score:5, Insightful)
Look who the biggest advertiser is in PC Mag ... you know ... follow the money ...
The box does everything most people want - safe browsing on the web, email, and word processing. Throw in an extra stick of ram, and its a decent second box for a developer.
"PC" Magazine--How Are They A Neutral Reviewer (Score:5, Insightful)
What did they expect? (Score:5, Insightful)
Coincidence? (Score:3, Insightful)
For PC magazine's target audience, sure (Score:5, Insightful)
But for grandma? Do you really trust PC Magazine to be *capable* of reviewing something the way your grandmother would see it, rather then how a full time PC user would? Its a similar problem when someone like 1up does a review of a "casual" focused game. The review is meaningless because who the game is aimed at and who the review is aimed at are completely different markets.
The only way to review this thing properly is to give it to someone in the Walmart crowd who doesn't use a PC very much now, and see how they do with it. Unfortunately, I don't know of a magazine that does that sort of review.
Re:Accurate, considering the caveats (Score:5, Insightful)
The old rule of thumb is true.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Accurate, considering the caveats (Score:4, Insightful)
Wal-Mart's business model (Score:3, Insightful)
The last batch sold out, so chances are they'll sell it again, and again, until demand starts to falter or until they can no longer profit from them.
- RG>
Re:For PC magazine's target audience, sure (Score:1, Insightful)
I'm shocked! (Score:2, Insightful)
Linux, WalMart, and Everex are such big sponsors of PC Mag, I figured it'd get the maximum number of stars for sure.
How serious can you take this when more than half the page is filled with advertisements for HP, Lenovo, Sony and anti-virus software? Just a little conflict of interest there, maybe?
Not a troll but seriously... (Score:2, Insightful)
Look at the general population at wal-mart. Most of the people there want something with a cheaper price tag over quality. Do you honestly think that these consumers are purchasing this PC with the mind set that "Oh I'm sticking it to Microsoft by not buying a Windows PC!" Hell no. They buy it because it's $200 bucks. You could load any operating system on it and people would STILL buy it.
This has nothing to do with the operating system, it's simple, it's cheap, and the consumers at wal-mart will buy it.
The majority of your PC buyers just want something cheap.
My Review of the Stupid Review (Score:5, Insightful)
Save up for just a little longer and buy something for at least $450 that runs Windows Vista, or get the ASUS Eee PC 4G laptop.
A major selling point of this is that it is cheap and his first recommendation is buying something more than twice as expensive. Not only that, but he recommends buying a $450 system with Vista. Are there companies selling systems at that price with hardware even capable of running Vista? If so, sight unseen, I can gaurantee you that they suck. The Eee PC is a sweet little machine, in my estimation, but it is no replacement for a desktop. Whenever I see someone griping about the Eee PC it is because they are expecting it to act like a desktop and it isn't one. Also - the Eee PC doesn't answer his critique of this system not running windows and mac apps. So he is just fishing for things to pile up against the system even if they aren't consistent with one another.
The upside is that the processor consumes only 20W peak by itself, and during use, the PC did keep its overall power usage to the 20W-to-50W range.
Another nit to pick about gPC's green claims: While the VIA processor is low-power-consuming and Everex claims the gPC is fully RoHS (Reduction of Hazardous Substances) compliant, it has no Energy Star rating or EPEAT certification.
That's not a nitpick. It's stupid. The thing uses less energy than most other systems, he says so himself, so he complains that this fact is not certified. Apparently certified and using more energy is more environmentally friendly than not certified and using less energy.
You could buy this PC to use for a hardware project, such as for installing Windows Home Server or another flavor of Linux. For those purposes, however, I would recommend you just use that old Pentium III box in your closet,...
Windows home server? So now you are better off buying an underpowered Vista machine at twice the price or taking Linux off this box and replacing it with a buggy windows product. Nice. But dig up an old PIII because for some reason that's better. No explanation of how or why but the mind boggles.
The setup sheet rightly notes that, for the PC to fully function, you need a broadband Internet connection with an Ethernet cable. The picture on the setup sheet, however, points to the included modem...
The words are right, the picture is wrong. In other words the documentation doesn't exactly match with reality. I have to say that this has been true of more products that I've bought than has not been true. Anyone wanting to run a PC that is advertised as relying on the internet for full functionality over dial up, is going to be frustrated by anything they buy, no matter how powerful because dialup sucks.
He had to change the monitor resolution. That's rough. He had to install Flash and had choices that confused him. That's a curious oversight on the part of the manufacturer but hardly a show stopper.
Needless to say, programs written for Mac OS X or Windows that you can buy online or in a retail store won't work on the Linux-based gPC it's mainly a Web-based PC.
Wow - that's almost like investigative reporting. It's a web-based PC? I'd have never guessed that from all the advertising. I shouldn't get snarky I guess, but come on. He's upset because this isn't a high end desktop that can run mad and windows apps. He wants it to be a G5 but it isn't so it gets a low rating. If he rated cars only high-end sports cars would get a chance. Anything else would be under powered and without the luxuries he expects on every vehicle regardless of price.
He is right about getting what you pay for. And more is quite often better. But the slightly more difficult question is "How much is enough?" And for many people, in my experience, this cheap little machine is enough. Why should it be punished because he wants more?
Asumes too much. (Score:5, Insightful)
From their site:
CONS:Ethernet "Internet Connection Required." Modem is nonfunctional (for now). 1,280-by-800 resolution forced by internal graphics. Adobe Flash installation can be confusing for a novice. Google search window goes to WebRunner, not the expected Firefox. Programs written for Mac or Windows will not run.
The market for the gPC isn't for everyone, just folks who want to get online and not worry about getting in trouble. PC Magazine missed the point, and the 1.5 review can just be tossed out the window.
Re:Accurate, considering the caveats (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Is this just nitpicking? Yes. (Score:5, Insightful)
Take an honest look at it.
1. The modem doesn't work... Yes it is a Winmodem but should you build a box and put a none functioning modem in it?
2. They didn't install Flash and don't seem to have a super easy way to install Flash.
3. gOS? Yet another flavor of Ubuntu but not really Ubuntu.
I would love to see this box compared to one of Dell's Ubuntu PCs.
Maybe it is just not that great of a Linux Box.
I am tempted to buy the motherboard from it and put it in one of the extra cases I have sitting at home. Maybe toss on Openfiler and see what if I could create a little Home server to replace my old PIII server.
Re:For PC magazine's target audience, sure (Score:3, Insightful)
I agree, the complaints about the OS are legitimate, and will hopefully be fixed in later revs of the product. But the argument that you can just pay twice as much to get a functional Vista box is a) bullshit, and b) missing the point entirely (that this is an ultra-cheap PC for those who need such a thing).
Re:"PC" Magazine--How Are They A Neutral Reviewer (Score:2, Insightful)
A cheap do-it-yourselfer is great (Score:3, Insightful)
Linux also requires users to have a little more familiarity with your hardware, so you're not just learning about how to use the system -- you're learning about what's inside, too.
On the downside, 512MB of RAM is barely enough these days; I'm sure they could have left out the speakers and gone with a full gig, unless part of their plan is to make money on these kinds of aftermarket options.
It's also very cool how they integrated the Google apps into the system, albeit without the official blessing of the big G. I guess the real question is, when are they going to put out a similar product on their own?
target audience (Score:4, Insightful)
For either group the OS makes no difference. if the machine runs and can do these simple things, that is ok. I know that this computer does not have the advanced MS features of one click changing of the background image, or one click changing of the orientation, or other critical one click hourly tasks, but for $200 I think many people can live without those luxuries.
Of course, if one needs a second computer that runs specific MS Windows only applications, then buy an MS Windows machine. But in most cases to run such applications, one will not be able to buy the cheapest machine on the market.
They're different systems, just like the consoles (Score:5, Insightful)
Well... (Score:3, Insightful)
What's more important to me are reviews where a PC like this is put in front of youngsters or novices. People who don't have preconceived ideas about where things should be and how they should work.
Re:Accurate, considering the caveats (Score:4, Insightful)
Of course, were it a 'windows computer' you still couldnt pick any game off the shelf and expect it to run.
"they will probably expect that they can buy something like Age of Empires or Civ II or whatever and be able to run it on their computer."
Of course, for those who want to run Civ II that PC is perfectly qualified to run Freeciv (which the cheap walmarter doesnt even have to buy!). In fact, in the range of games that hardware can be expected to support there is a selection of free Linux games that could easily have the walmart customer wasting a year or three.
Re:Accurate, considering the caveats (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:They're different systems, just like the consol (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:They're different systems, just like the consol (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Accurate, considering the caveats (Score:5, Insightful)
Hmmm...
Purple Chicken.
No..
Hmm.
Okay-- the linux PC SOLD OUT. How can you argue with a product selling out? It may be a 1.5 rating compared to a new whizbang box (that sells for $1800) but at $200, a lot of people felt it was a 4.0 rating.
This is like when the PS3 people were saying Wii sucked-- while PS3's were sitting unsold and Wii's were rare as hen's teeth. Oh wait... that's still true after 14 months.
Microsoft gives tons of money to these magazines- a magazine recently fired a reviewer for giving a bad review to a paying advertiser (like 40 days ago-- big scandal).
Hmm.
The key is this... Microsoft's "network effect" is fading. Vista sucks so developers can't count on it being installed and more and more linux boxes are out there creating an increasingly large market for hardware and software that works with linux. And the more "consumers" who buy linux (and do not install it and are not gear heads) the friendlier developers of hardware and software are going to make their linux products.
For the first time since 2000- I'd say we are really approaching a tipping point. Microsoft will always be big in the market but very soon there will not be an assumption that it is the market.
Re:Accurate, considering the caveats (Score:3, Insightful)
For basic web surfing and email, $450 for a Vista Home Basic PC probably is a better buy.
Re:"PC" Magazine--How Are They A Neutral Reviewer (Score:5, Insightful)
Is it not that hard to imagine that WalMart sold a piece of crap computer with Linux pre-loaded to keep the costs down.
Re:They're different systems, just like the consol (Score:4, Insightful)
The linux box they were selling was a great deal: a complete, functional, preconfigured PC that will do basically everything BUT gaming. Plenty of people understand that and the ones that want more will buy more or build their own.
What's really stupid is the tendency to judge products by an unattainable ideal. You can't buy a PC for $199 that is a screaming fast, green gaming machine that runs linux, windows or anything else. It is what it is - buy it if you want it, if not buy something else.
Re:Accurate, considering the caveats (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Accurate, considering the caveats (Score:4, Insightful)
Linux on the desktop right now still has a few rough edges but compared to several years ago the difference with MS products is really too small to notice. Favorite gripes:
- IE only websites (yes, some people really don't get it)
- proprietary codecs
Faults in linux that I think need fixing urgently:
- make it so that when you try to fix a small problem (say upgrade or install some small application) that you don't end up with having to upgrade more and more of the system.
I mean this sort of thing:
root@jam:/home/jam/Desktop# apt-get install kruler
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
The following extra packages will be installed:
binutils binutils-dev cpp cpp-4.1 cpp-4.2 gcc gcc-4.1 gcc-4.1-base gcc-4.2 gcc-4.2-base kcontrol kdebase-bin kdebase-bin-kde3
kdebase-data kdebase-kio-plugins kdegraphics-kfile-plugins kdelibs-data kdelibs4c2a kdesktop kdm kfind kicker konqueror kpersonalizer
ksplash libart-2.0-2 libasound2 libc6 libcupsys2 libdbus-1-3 libfreetype6 libgcc1 libgnutls13 libgomp1 libhal-storage1 libhal1
libjasper1 libjpeg62 libkeyutils1 libkonq4 libkrb53 liblzo2-2 libncurses5 libopencdk10 libopenexr2ldbl libpam0g libpoppler-qt2
libpoppler2 libselinux1 libsepol1 libslang2 libssl0.9.8 libstdc++6 libxml2 libxrandr2 locales tzdata util-linux util-linux-locales
zlib1g
Suggested packages:
binutils-doc cpp-doc gcc-4.1-locales gcc-4.2-locales gcc-multilib automake1.9 libtool flex bison gcc-doc gcc-4.1-multilib gcc-4.1-doc
gcc-4.2-doc gcc-4.2-multilib libgcc1-dbg libgomp1-dbg libmudflap0-4.2-dbg libmudflap0-4.2-dev fam kicker-applets ksvg gij-4.1
libgcj7-awt libjessie-java libasound2-plugins glibc-doc libfreetype6-dev gnutls-bin libjasper-runtime krb5-doc krb5-user libpam-doc
Recommended packages:
libmudflap0-dev
The following packages will be REMOVED:
build-essential g++ g++-4.1 libc6-dev libjpeg62-dev libncurses5-dev libopenexr2c2a libssp0 libstdc++6-4.1-dev zlib1g-dev
The following NEW packages will be installed:
cpp-4.2 gcc-4.2 gcc-4.2-base kdebase-bin-kde3 kruler libgomp1 libjasper1 libkeyutils1 liblzo2-2 libopencdk10 libopenexr2ldbl
libpoppler-qt2 libpoppler2
The following packages will be upgraded:
binutils binutils-dev cpp cpp-4.1 gcc gcc-4.1 gcc-4.1-base kcontrol kdebase-bin kdebase-data kdebase-kio-plugins
kdegraphics-kfile-plugins kdelibs-data kdelibs4c2a kdesktop kdm kfind kicker konqueror kpersonalizer ksplash libart-2.0-2 libasound2
libc6 libcupsys2 libdbus-1-3 libfreetype6 libgcc1 libgnutls13 libhal-storage1 libhal1 libjpeg62 libkonq4 libkrb53 libncurses5
libpam0g libselinux1 libsepol1 libslang2 libssl0.9.8 libstdc++6 libxml2 libxrandr2 locales tzdata util-linux util-linux-locales
zlib1g
48 upgraded, 13 newly installed, 10 to remove and 843 not upgraded.
Need to get 74.0MB of archives.
After unpacking 17.6MB disk space will be freed.
Do you want to continue [Y/n]?
Even if it worked (which it doesn't) it would still be unacceptable.
- stop switching kernel API's around every few releases, release a binary driver spec and stick to it
So that those of us that want to get some work done can just concentrate on that and leave the 'information wants to be free' bs to others
- get rid of all those duplicate halfbaked projects and put all the effort into a single set of office software.
What use is to have 3 different versions of everything, with every forked and me-too project the chance of large scale end-user adoption for linux goes down.
That said, I haven't had windows on my desktop box for the last 4 years and in spite of the above I'm very happy with it.
It's rather sad (Score:4, Insightful)
I read TFA. Are all the negative points it brought up real or fair? Of course not. For one thing, I don't like how the author criticizes gPC for not preinstalling the flash player. I believe that was due to licensing limitations.
On the other hand, I see very valid criticism. For instance, according to TFA, gPC defaults to 1280x800, and will revert back to it after rebooting even if the user manually sets it to 1280x1024. I think that's something inexcusable - defaulting to an inordinary screen resolution, and somehow mysteriously insisting on it.
My point is - not a novel one at that - if people truly want Linux to be adopted more widely, they should learn not to take criticism the wrong way.
Re:Is this just nitpicking? Yes. (Score:3, Insightful)
I can honestly say I wouldn't throw a fit if I had a windows machine where I had to adjust the screen res. In fact I have a laptop at work that forces me to do so on a pretty regular basis.
Should the modem work - yes. Should a person use this pc if they don't have broadband? No. I think they would have been better off just leaving it out. My guess is it was cheaper to leave it in than have it removed. They probably have these manufactured in bulk for multiple purposes.
Not installing flash is weird, but it isn't hard. I do it every time I add Firefox to a pc - windows or linux. It's not a big deal. If seeing the three options on the adobe download page is overwhelming and hard - then lots of things with any computer will be. And if I got that call for help that he guarantees will come, I'd just walk the person through the very clear, very simple instructions on the Adobe site - and they would be done. No big deal. I'd consider it a decent trade off for the calls on a regular basis asking for help in cleaning up spyware or malware.
Of course it isn't a great machine. Neither is my pda/phone. But it is o.k. for what it is and should be judged within those parameters.
Re:"PC" Magazine--How Are They A Neutral Reviewer (Score:4, Insightful)
You are a about 2 decades too late for that. Personally, I think that the confusion was deliberate and brilliant marketing - I can remember getting into "yes, this is my personal computer but it is not a PC" arguments with people about my Mac back about 1985 or so...
Re:Accurate, considering the caveats (Score:5, Insightful)
Myself: when scrolling through different desktop backgrounds it has a tendency to hang and not want to update the background anymore. Not serious, but annoying. I've also had a very app crashes from apps installed with their package manager (Anjuta crashes when trying to create or import any Glade file). Now I know that's the app and not the OS, but given that it's installed from their package manager I expect some level of quality checking on the included version to make sure it's not going to crash on something so simple.
Overall I really want Linux to be better; I think it will eventually be the standard OS simply because of it's openness the community effort aspect. But, at this time there are just little quirks that MacOS and even Windows don't have (though they, particularly Windows, have a whole different set of problems, which is why I'm doing most of my general usage on MacOS these days
Re:Accurate, considering the caveats (Score:4, Insightful)
This is total fabrication. The entire world is actively working to avoid Vista because the hardware support is terrible, it's full of bugs, and it doesn't support all the legacy windows programs people use.
They reviewed a bargain basement PC and recommended people spend more so they can use an OS that made every top 10 worst product of the year list that matters. Clearly, this isn't a review, it's a MS advertisement.
Re:Accurate, considering the caveats (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, it didn't point out flaws in "Linux". The complaints were that the desktop wasn't very functional and that Flash wasn't installed. Also that the hardware was "slow", though he didn't give any numbers at all for that.
So these flaws, if they are that, pretty trivial and not fundamental parts of Linux, could be and probably will be fixed very easily. It wasn't really unfair, but you can see this guy spends his life using top end machines and apps, he's just not interested in a cheap machine. And of course, the page is full of ads for Vista-equipped PCs, as he suggests you "save up for instead".
Re:Accurate, considering the caveats (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Accurate, considering the caveats (Score:5, Insightful)
And regarding the "noob friendliness", this is always put forward with Windows although I keep seeing Windows users that just can't manage to make head from tails from their system, haven't really figured how to install or remove stuff or how to change basic settings. I don't really see the difference between that and pretty much any other graphical system/interface. If you don't know how to use it, you don't know how to use it. Whether it's Windows, MacOS or Unix doesn't really matter much. The interface is fairly similar anyway when you aren't already conditioned into the quirks of a specific system.
What's currently considered friendly is what you're used to.
No more no less. I find Unix/Linux very friendly because I'm quite used to it and understand the way it works. I find Windows downright hostile when I have to use it because none of it makes much sense to me. I can still use it fine because I've been around computers for a while, I just avoid it. Pretty much the same thing with MacOS : I have an iBook which I used for a year before getting fed up with it and replacing it with a small Samsung running Linux.
Comments on Walmart's site (Score:4, Insightful)
Then there were the one star raters. These people talked about how cheap the PC was, and couldn't understand why it couldn't run their other software. They found the desktop confusing and the programs it came with overly complex.
It appears that this was a thrown together piece of cheap hardware. However, those who were tech savvy viewed this as a bargain of computer parts. A little tweaking -- better keyboard, more memory, more diskspace, etc., and you had a fairly cheap Linux machine. The rest were typical computer customers who bought it because it was only $200. They found it sloppily put together, cheap and unusable components, and a confusing OS. These people didn't have the time, energy, nor technical skills to tweak this computer to make it usable.
This computer was an interesting experiment, and we'll see many more in the years to come. There's no way companies can sell $200 computers while buying a Windows license. Something is going have to give. You're going to see a lot more Linux computers for the masses before the end of next year. Someone is going to get it right.
Re:Is this just nitpicking? Yes. (Score:3, Insightful)
Man you just don't get it. When I buy a PC I expect it to work. I expect all of it to work. I don't use a dial up connection but I might want to use the modem to send a fax. Yes Winmodem do impose a cpu load that a real hardware modem doesn't but they also can be used as a telephony device when a hardware modem often can not. A good Winmodem can actually be used with a PBX system like Asterix to create an advanced home phone system. And it is just fine if you have to send a Fax to someone.
As to sticking more ram into it. Yes this is a fine machine for a hacker to tweak and make into a home server or a spare machine. The problem is that isn't the market it is supposed to target.
Using terms like Winboxen and Sux doesn't make it any different.
This machine is far from perfect. As it stands it isn't a good machine for someone that knows nothing about Linux to take home and plug in.
Re:Accurate, considering the caveats (Score:4, Insightful)
I've run (not in that order) RH, Slackware, Mandrake, Debian (still use it on servers), Gentoo and now (K)Ubuntu because it's less of a hassle.
The brittle side really depends on the choices made by the distribution packagers (at the time Mandrake tended to always package the latest bleeding edge beta of everything) but it seems to me that (at least with Ubuntu lately) it's definitely gotten quite a bit better.
OTOH I've had a number of odd crashes in XP as well (where the only applications I run are store bought games, an antivirus, and sometimes Firefox) in drivers, various apps, etc. No system is immune (oh and my Mac running 10.4 had its share of problems too)
Software nowadays... well, it's not as good as it used to be ya know
Re:They're different systems, just like the consol (Score:4, Insightful)
You're saying that people who spend hundreds of dollars for a machine to play a game that costs sixty dollars and is actually digital crack [uncyclopedia.org] aren't retards?
I will grant you that Guitar Hero [uncyclopedia.org] is pretty fucking cool. And I admit to being addicted to Quake [uncyclopedia.org] way back in the last century. And Road Rash [wikipedia.org]. And...
Oh hell I'm a retard.
Re:Accurate, considering the caveats (Score:4, Insightful)
1. The dependencies reported from apt-get are declarative (stated in a manifest), not necessarily from actual code dependencies. As it has already been stated, upgrading some of these dependencies improves performance, but many of them are also security updates (the openssl update, for example).
2. Other OSs DO install and replace more than one file in their update schemes. This is a random update I clicked on the Windows Update site http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=938979 [microsoft.com]. I count 111 files to be replaced in the 32-bit version of Vista. Also, keep in mind that core updates, like the Windows equivalents of binutils and libc++ would have been taken care of in a previous patch, because they are system-wide enhancements, not just related to a small utility (kruler).
Re:Accurate, considering the caveats (Score:2, Insightful)
Isn't upgrading software part of using a computer though? Surely a simple thing like upgrading to the lastest version of IM or web browsing software also falls under ease of use? Yet when I tried to upgrade Kopete, it was a nightmare. Funny that..
Yeah, that MS-Paint has GIMP beat somethin' fierce. If you're thinking Adobe, enjoy paying $649 for functionality the average Ubuntu user has built-in.
I'm actually thinking more along the lines of GNUCash vs. MS Money (or Quicken, if you prefer). And yes, I'd rather pay $60 for something that works easily and intuitively over something that lacks major features and isn't intuitive.
Hint: An Apache server is NOT a web server run by Native Americans. It's used by many providers for a reason. Guess what that reason is?
I'm sorry, I thought we were discussing things along the lines of what a normal user would do with their PC. Since we're here though, IIS 5+ is reliable and easier to maintain than Apache. Why yes, I have used both.
Installed Ubuntu 6.10/XP dual-boot on my work and one of my home PCs. XP needed me to hunt down drivers for my video card, TV card, NIC, and sound card. Ubuntu recognized 'em all and I was watching TV on it 20 minutes later. Yay, TVtime!
Hunt down drivers? You mean find the disc with the drivers on them? Or let Windows update find them for you? Sorry, there's no way in hell you're going to win this one, when my Lexmark x4200 series printer was little more than a BRICK to Linux.
Still not convinced? Friend of mine asked me to get their PC to recognize their digital camera. Took a driver disk before Windows would recognize the cam. I plugged it into my Ubuntu box....
Nope. I actually have used Linux, and the camera scenario you describe is the sasme experience in both; its reconized as a removable drive. Both will prompt you to copy pictures off the device. I've NEVER had a camera not reconized by Windows. I can only conclude you're making up this story, because I've never heard it related except on
Linux is starting to get device drivers down better than Windows, if you're willing to look.
Look, and spend days figuring out why the driver doesn't work, then finding the 2.6.12 driver because I actually found the 2.6.10 driver. Blah. I'd rather just pop in a CD and be done with it, or find it at the manufactor's website. Really, that is much easier than blindly looking, and many times finding NO driver, see Lexmark X4200 series, for Linux.
VISTA!?? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:They're different systems, just like the consol (Score:3, Insightful)
How many times has Mom, Grandma, Uncle John bought that game "becuse it looked so fun" and then you had to explain to them you had a {Wii,360,PS3,DS} and the game they bought you was for the {Wii,360,PS3,DS}. I've heard stories of people getting offended at their Christmas present being returned. Even if it was just exchanged for THE EXACT SAME GAME on the popper platform.
Please, describe to me how you're going to explain to Grandma that Brain Age won't work on your 360 and you have to return it.
Re:Accurate, considering the caveats (Score:2, Insightful)
moral of the story (Score:2, Insightful)
The author's words are so profound
Re:Accurate, considering the caveats (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Accurate, considering the caveats (Score:4, Insightful)
First and foremost - a 'driver disk' isn't a problem for 99.9% of users. If I go to Best Buy and pick out a TV Tuner and inside that box there is a disk with a driver that will make it work on my system - it is no extra work for me. I'm happy. I like that.
You'd be HARD PRESSED to go to Best Buy and find ANYTHING made for a PC that, with the contents in the box, won't run on Windows XP. Vista isn't quite there, often times you have to go and download crap and deal with drivers - but in 6 months that won't be the case. It's already getting a lot better.
I need an external, wireless, USB network adapter. If I go to Best Buy today and buy one of each unique model they have....with the contents of what is in the box - how many of them will work in Ubuntu? Half? Less than half? Oh wait, what is that? I have to use NDISWRAP or some bs...and then I need to get the Windows drivers anyway? So, how is that better? Oh, and I have additional overhead and CPU costs because I'm using a Windows driver on Linux.
I bought an Ubuntu book from the Library (yes, I like to buy books). I had THREE WIRELESS USB ADAPTERS and NOT ONE OF THEM would work in Ubuntu. I'm told a new version has come out and now ONE of my wireless USB adapters will work, but only with ndiswrap and some hacks.
Linux is *NOT EVEN CLOSE* to being hardware friendly. When I walk into Best Buy - where is the Linux hardware section? There isn't one. You have Windows, and you have Mac. And you can confident that your Mac hardware will work in your Mac - and you can be confident that your windows hardware will work in Windows. Linux is a crapshoot. It might work; but if it doesn't, you are screwed.
I own an iRiver T10 mp3 player. It holds 256mb of music. I've had it for years, I use it at the gym; I love it. It's everything I need or want in an MP3 player. It doesn't work in Linux. I tried it. It didn't. I found some blogs linking to Chinese websites that supposedly can do it (google: iriver t10 linux - visit first result). Read the comments, even using the hack that, as the author warns could turn your mp3 player into a paper weight - people have limited success.
That's not good hardware support. Linux is far, far behind Windows in that regard. I know, because I'm a windows user who has lots of crappy hardware and I install Linux very year or so and see if it's ready to become my desktop OS. And each and everytime I find that something I need doesn't work.
I had an old internal wireless card that, years back, Linux didn't support. Now, it does - but I don't use the internal wireless card - I use an external USB one...and Linux doesn't support it. I'm sure that, sooner or later, Linux will support it - right around the time that a newer, faster, better version is for sale; and then that new thing won't be supported.
Oh, and let's not forget about the crappy video driver issues Linux users get to deal with. I guess people gloss over that because, ya know, games for Linux are few and far between (and by that, I mean...games that don't suck. No offense, but google for 'best linux games' and tell me that compares to Windows.
It doesn't.
noob-free in 20 years (Score:5, Insightful)
EXACTLY. People always comment on how much friendlier Windows is.... I just don't see it. If it was so damn friendly, then why do I still have to keep answering questions about it from my family and friends? And seriously, at what point are we going to be noob-free? Teenagers these days haven't known when computers didn't exist. My 2.5 year old daughter can use the mouse and play her Reader Rabbit games on the PC pretty well, whereas an elderly neighbor had no clue how to use a mouse - she was hovering her hand over it and moving her hand around. Quite a clash of generations. I guess we'll always have noobs in a sense, but they won't be as prevalent.
I've been using Linux on my home machine since RedHat 6.1, and the advances it has made on the desktop are nothing short of amazing. But there are still things I don't know, and things that frustrate the hell out of me with it. But I wouldn't have it any other way. I'm more comfortable with Windows than Mac, those things just do not mesh well with my brain. It will be interesting in 10, 20 years to see how things have progressed. Hopefully I'll be able to keep up.
Classic Quote (Score:4, Insightful)
That said, I have basically this machine (built from scratch). I use it for a file server. I might consider something like this as a terminal in my kitchen, but I'd never suggest anyone use one as their main machine unless they really can't afford something more.
Re:Accurate, considering the caveats (Score:3, Insightful)
Good point, that often gets missed. If you download software for Windows, and it turns out to be buggy, you don't blame it on Windows. But because a Linux distribution delivers a huge amount of software together, a bug in any one of them gets blamed on the distribution (in the gp case, Ubuntu).
I guess, though, if we are going to sell Linux as a better choice because of the wealth of OSS, we had better work hard to make sure it all works as bug free as possible. That's why the real heroes of OSS are the ones that toil in obscurity investigating and fixing reported bugs.
Re:Accurate, considering the caveats (Score:4, Insightful)
The people not sure the difference among $200, $500, $1000, and $2000 machines and who don't understand the specs were already in deep trouble trying to buy a computer without help. Using those people as the supposed only target market is a bit silly. i do pity those who thought it was just some outrageous "doorbuster" price on a more capable machine, but the type of retailer Wal-Mart is doesn't serve the question-asking crowd. Sometimes there's a price to be paid for cheap at the service level and not just at the product level. A local computer shop with clueful employees could have saved those people some time and frustration, but the $200 PC isn't at fault for that problem.
Re:Accurate, considering the caveats (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Accurate, considering the caveats (Score:3, Insightful)
On the flip side, you can't throw a rock without hitting 6 Windows users. Help for those users is a lot easier to come by.
I agree with this one. (Score:4, Insightful)
Too bad it probably will not happen.
For some reason people seem to think that this will make companies release FOSS drivers. The fact that nVidia and ATI are still releasing closed drivers doesn't seem to matter to them.
Then you have the statment that they don't have to write FOSS drivers they can just release the specs and the FOSS community will write better drivers than they can.
Well ATI is releasing the specks for some of it's GPUs so I guess we will see.
"- get rid of all those duplicate halfbaked projects and put all the effort into a single set of office software.
What use is to have 3 different versions of everything, with every forked and me-too project the chance of large scale end-user adoption for linux goes down."
That can not be done. How do you tell someone that they can not write a program? Why would you want to?
I figure choice is a good thing. And since most of these projects are free what right do I have to tell them what to do?
Re:Accurate, considering the caveats (Score:3, Insightful)
It should bundle the damn flashsupport library by default with the Linux install. It is something like 400-500 lines of code which they should have written instead of wanking off and releasing something that basically does not work. All linux distros nowdays have a working sound system. Shipping something that takes absolute control of the sound outside this framework is just plain bogus. They should accept it as a bug and bundle the library with their bugware (it uses the interfaces they have formally published for flash extension and gives flash full Audio support as well as video4linux support)
Now, we all know that Adobe are wankers, but the fact that neither Debian, nor Ubuntu have the damn library in the default install does not make matters any better.
Re:Accurate, considering the caveats (Score:3, Insightful)