Did SCO Get Linux-mob Justice? 320
An anonymous reader writes "According to Fortune's legal blogger Roger Parloff, "once in awhile a judicial ruling comes down that's so wrong at such a basic level that you're just left scratching your head". He claims that Judge Kimball's "102-page ruling (about SCO) was greeted with widespread rejoicing and I-told-you-so's", but "the problem is not that Judge Kimball's view of the facts is wrong". Was the ruling unfair?"
No. (Score:5, Insightful)
Some bad reasoning behind a good call (maybe) (Score:3, Insightful)
No A$$hole Rule (Score:5, Insightful)
Yodeling (Score:4, Insightful)
Article date: September 10, 2007, 6:14 am (Score:4, Insightful)
That blog article is just old FUD.
Re:How? (Score:4, Insightful)
Why Are People Angry At The Author? (Score:2, Insightful)
Heck, he even allows that the RESULT of the ruling is most likely correct, but the act of the ruling itself is the issue.
"Mob justice" Good grief! (Score:4, Insightful)
It is about time that the slow turning wheels of justice move to end the long suffering of IBM, Novell, the linux community, and open source in general.
Corporate Juries (Score:4, Insightful)
That one flaw shows what a farce it is to treat corporations as "persons" with the same rights as humans. As if there were any shortage of reasons. Like this corporate flackery from _Fortune_'s Parloff, which is whining that a judge didn't waste even more years, time of people in juries and elsewhere in the legal system already overworked subsidizing corporate warfare like SCO's desperate, doomed extortion of IBM.
Somebody walk me through this... (Score:3, Insightful)
I stopped RTFA after first paragraph. (Score:3, Insightful)
Er, idiot, Redhat sued SCO, not visa-versa.
If he can't understand the difference between plaintiff and defendant, why should I consider any of his other opinions?
Fortune's headlines are even worse than /.'s (Score:3, Insightful)
The article is about the Novell vs SCO case, it advocate well that the issue of ownership is UNIX(TM) is far from clear cut, and leaps to the conclusion that it should have been decided by a jury rather than by a judge.
A jury is *closer* to to "mob-justice" than a judge, and Linux is rather irrelevant to the question of ownership of UNIX(TM), the headline makes no sense.
Was the headline selected by someone else than the author? Does Fortune get significant money from click hits? If so, maybe an editor chosed the headline to infuriate the Linux "mob".
Re:No. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Since when?... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm just amazed at how many supposedly-knowledgeable people continue to fall for what is utter BS. Anyone reading the comments posted to the article within hours of its' first appearance would have seen the whole thing torn apart - in particular, the legal requirement for a transfer of copywrite to include a written transfer, and that, withut that, judge Kimball could NOT rule in favour of SCO even if he wanted to.
This is the same level of "journalism" as pretendrle and mogtroll. Uninformed. Ditto with all those "analysts" who also came out with buy recommendations, talking through their goatse.cx orifices.
The one thing this experience has taught is that many and "analyst", "journalist", "expert" or "lawyer" is just another opinionated asshole, too lazy to do any fact-checking.
While the average slashdotter may not be a lawyer, we seem to have a better grasp of legal fundamentals than many of the "experts". Why? Because we write code, and we know the consequences of overlooking a missed semicolon, a typo, or starting from wrong assumptions. Lawyers, on the other hand, don't have a financial incentive to give good advice or dig too deeply when it means generating less revenue.
Shakespeare had it right. "First, we kill all the lawyers."
Re:Why Are People Angry At The Author? (Score:2, Insightful)
In the five years SCO has had access to just about every single line of code ever written by IBM they still couldnt find a shred of evidence of the "literal copying". Add to that the BSD vs AT&T agreement wich gave all BSD code green light, the fact that UNIX is a very well specified standard that will make much of the code for anyone implementing it look similar in some places and the fact that SCO has not showed any evidence to the court and this is a very clear cut case.
This trial should have been done in weeks but the Judge really took his time whitewashing Linux from any possible doubt.
I expect this story isnt over by a long shot. I really believe this wont end until all the loose ends are tied together. That includes the pump and dump scheme and Microsofts financing a clearly frivilous lawsuit to kill a competitor.
Re:No. (Score:4, Insightful)
Then that is a matter for appeal. The trial judge ruled on a matter of law. If one of the parties thinks the ruling was in error, take it up to the next level. That's how it is done. The Court of Appeal can:
All of which is always subject to further appeal. All it takes is lawyers and money; guns optional.
Rubbish. (Score:5, Insightful)
But the key issue is that none of that matters. The contract has specific language, called an "integration clause" saying that only what's in the contract matters. Anything outside the contract, like who remembers what, is irrelevant. The contract cannot possibly be read to say that SCO owns the copyrights because the contract explicitly says that copyrights are not to be transferred. Parloff actually touches on this near the bottom of his article, but then dismisses it based on SCO's argument that -- elsewhere in the contract -- it says "all rights and ownership". Now he's just being coy because the actual wording is something more like "all rights and ownership, except those included in section X". And copyright law is very explicit about the kind of language you have to use to transfer copyrights.
It's not always possible to tell a shill from an honest journalist, but SCO and their obvious shills (like Maureen O'Gara) started making claims that Kimball was legally incompetent and often overturned on appeal (not true) at about the same time Parloff came up with this bit of legal opinion. None of the regular press came to the same conclusion. Since he's playing the same riff, I'm guessing he's with the band.
Re:Not quite yet (Score:2, Insightful)
So next time you get yelled at by an angry customer, don't just say you have no authority or responsibility to address their complaint. As long as you choose to work for the company with sucky products or service, it is your responsibility as it is people's right to yell at you for getting them screwed. A huge employee turnover coupled with cost of training replacements will soon clue in the execs on need for improvement.
Re:hmm (Score:5, Insightful)
There is an absolutely, one hundred percent clear contract between Novell and SCO: The contract says "Novell sells the business to SCO, excluding any copyrights". That's what the contract says. Sure, Novell _intended_ to sell the copyrights as well, but SCO didn't have the money for that. SCO's witnesses were excluded for a very good reason: The contract is absolutely clear. It means what it says. Any witness that says otherwise can and must be ignored. That's what the law actually says: Any witness contradicting the meaning of a written contract must be ignored.
SCO was never "told and led to believe they had ownership of Unix rights". They tried to buy these rights. Novell wanted to sell them. SCO didn't have the money.
Just yesterday I went to a shop selling 50 inch LCD TVs. I wanted to buy one. I said "would you sell that TV to me"? They said "Of course, absolutely yes". I said "How much is it?" They said "$3,000". I said "Umph. I've only got $200". I left the shop with a tiny 15" TV. But I have a dozen witnesses that I wanted to buy the 50" one, and they can all confirm that the shop wanted to sell me one. Even the shop assistant and his manager witnessed under oath that they wanted to sell me a 50" TV. So surely I have the right to get that TV for my $200?
Re:Not quite yet (Score:3, Insightful)
No, justice will NOT be served at all. McBride and his lawyers and the board of SCO will still be stinking filthy rich, and worse, richer than when this debacle started. Were justice to be served, Darl et al would have to spend time in prison.
There is no justice for the rich in the USSA. A rich, powerful man only goes to prison if a richer, more powerful man wants him there.
House arrest: In the USSA, prison goes to YOU!
-mcgrew
Re:No. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:No. (Score:1, Insightful)
This is not a direct reply to you, but I also do not understand why other comments are putting so much weight on the written transfer requirement. That is not what the ruling is about. The judge held that the proper interpretation of the contract was that it did not transfer the copyrights and that the contract is unambiguous on its face and completely integrated so no extrinsic evidence about the meaning of clauses needs to be taken into account. As TFA shows, there was a lot of ambiguity about the meaning of the contract and the judge looked at a lot of extrinsic evidence in deciding the contract was unambiguous. If this decision was incorrect--it looks like it was--then the case should have proceeded to jury trial. If the jury bought SCO's story over Novell's then there is no written transfer problem as the contract serves that purpose.
Re:No. (Score:4, Insightful)
Did SCO get a black eye from the fight? Yes
Might SCO have got away clean if it was a smaller company? Yes
Is it right that this same dance in a courtroom could have defeated a smaller company? No
Should you expect to get hurt when you wage war with large amounts of people and companies? Yes
Was SCO Treated unfairly? No! If you present no evidence, and base most of your case on false assumptions the law is quite clear that you should loose. And when you base all your financials on something you should loose, you go bust.
Re:Why Are People Angry At The Author? (Score:5, Insightful)
No, he doesn't make a good point. Judges are under no obligation to entertain novel new legal theories for years on end in their courtroom. The case was based on copyright, which requires explicit written transfer. There was no explicit written transfer of copyright, therefore there was no reason for the trial to go forward.
Re:Since when?... (Score:5, Insightful)
Take Boies: He's a lawyer, and lawyers represent guilty people all the time. Most lawyers are essentially mercenaries. The same thing can be said for so-called "analysts", most of whom are fare from "independent". The same goes for "journalists", who, contrary to what they would like you to think, are far from analytically unbiased.
My point is that you suggest all these talking heads are "too lazy to do any fact-checking" and in general ignorant of the facts. I think you are wrong, I think the facts are obvious, and we must look to other, self-serving reasons for their various proclamations.
Poor Legal Journalism (Score:4, Insightful)
The author apparently doesn't understand contract law. If the writing in the contract is unambiguous, then parole evidence (witness testimony) can not be taken into account. Even if everyone on both sides agrees that they meant something else, that is too bad because the contract is unambiguous. That is the case here. The assets transferred have their own schedule and specifically exclude anything in another schedule of excluded assets. Under "Intellecutal Property", only these assets are included:
Under "Excluded Assets" we have the following:
So the only "IP" included are certain trademarks. Copyrights, patents, and all trademarks except "UNIX" and "UnixWare" are specifically excluded. There is no way to read the contract that would transfer copyrights. It doesn't matter what anyone thought they were doing, they should have read the contract (let that be a lesson to you). However, the person that wrote the contract remembers exactly why they didn't transfer the copyrights and why they weren't needed to conduct the business. He discussed it with the board of directors (they run the company, not the CEO) and together decided that copyrights wouldn't transfer because they were worried about Santa Cruz's solvency. Even SCO admits it doesn't have the patents, but that never affected UnixWare licensing. Their own statements (that they bought "all" of UNIX) would logically mean they must own the patents too, but they don't even claim that.
The contract was amended later so that schedule 1.1(b) V. now says:
This was done after the sale, and copyright law doesn't allow copyrights to be transferred in this way. STILL no where in "included assets" even under "intellectual property" are copyrights included in the transfer, therefore they are excluded by default. This only modifies the exclusion so there is no way to read it that would legally transfer copyrights. The copyrights to transfer are not included, and are not "required for SCO to exercise its rights". Telling is the fact that Santa Cruz wanted much stronger wording and to have the copyrights transferred, but Novell only agreed to this wording for the amendment. Telling also is the fact that SCO wrote Novell multiple times in 2002 and 2003 to attempt to get them to actually transfer the copyrights and Novell declined.
Only SCO questions? (Score:4, Insightful)
Several declarations say this same thing. "I understood that the copyrights would be transferred. I don't remember anyone saying they wouldn't be transferred." The problem is though that no one remembers anyone ever saying that they would be transferred. It seems to have been an unspoken understanding that doesn't carry any weight in a courtroom. It seems that SCO cannot find a single person that remembers hearing or saying that copyrights would be transferred. That's pretty damning when the contract specifically excludes them and the only people that remember having any discussions on copyrights remember the reasons that they were NOT being transferred.
So it's like me
Re:Not quite yet (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Corporate Juries (Score:4, Insightful)
You are committing a couple logical fallacies; most clearly, the fallacy of the excluded middle. Corporations are not people, but also are not totally legally un-person-like. They are in fact between those two things (legally).
Re:Corporate Juries (Score:3, Insightful)
The factual basis of the post is wrong:
At most, the post is Interesting (but wrong); at least, the post is Troll. The only redeeming part of the post is the opinion sentence at the end, which notes the overworked justice system and the dumb nature of the lawsuit in question -- which is not insightful because it is not new; again, it is at most interesting. Overall, it is Overrated.
(And this post, being a follow up to another in the same thread, is Redundant.)
Re:Since when?... (Score:2, Insightful)
Let's make this simple - you do not have a better grasp of legal fundamentals than those who do it for a living. Your assertions regarding motive are so ridiculous as to be farcical. You believed from the beginning that SCO had no case - fine. That just makes you an opinionated asshole. Lawyers get paid to advocate a case for the client but few high profile attorneys will take a shit case since losing in the public eye tarnishes their image. I am reasonably certain that Boies is competitive enough to have thought there was a real chance at winning this case however remote. You, however start with the assumption that there could not possibly be a case to begin with and that lawyers produce sloppier work that coders based on consequences and financial incentives. And we all know that bad code does not exist right?
Law is just about dispute resolution. Period. Now you can have all the philosophical arguments you want on whether the american system works or not but the nuances in cases like these are often so byzantine that very few have a complete grasp of the total picture. Trials exist to find facts and the application of appropriate law to those facts. If you assume that you are smarter and better then that reveals more about you than about your analysis of the case.
why not try debating the counter-argument? Perhaps there might be some valid points here. Then again there may not be but at least look at it dispassionately first.