Microsoft Claims Patent On Elements of Embedded Linux?

Preedit writes "An InformationWeek story points out a recent deal between Microsoft and Japanese printer maker Kyocera Mita. Under the agreement, Kyocera obtained from Microsoft a license to patents used in 'certain Linux-based embedded technologies.' The question the author asks is why Kyocera needs a patent license from Microsoft to develop its embedded Linux products."

A few questions for Kyocera

[compumike]

We know that Microsoft claims to hold patents that Linux users are infringing... but they won't tell us which ones. What's new?

So there are two possibilities: either they've got a specific one or two that they're really able to show Kyocera that are troublesome, or they've just got this massive library of "probable" ones that Kyocera decided to give in to. What would be more interesting to know is who approached who about the deal. What does it permit? What did that cost?

Anyway, this is at the stage where it isn't using patent law, but is just using corporate risk expectations. Very dangerous... which is why MSFT doesn't want to show their hand.

Software patent lifetimes should probably get quite a bit shorter, too...

--
Educational microcontroller kits for the digital generation. [nerdkits.com]

It's a trap!

[cromar]

But seriously, it seems that Microsoft is going to keep after Linux until it has it surrounded on all sides. Then I suppose they'll get to a lawsuit. And, while Linux will be found to be free of MS patents, it will end up costing Microsoft's enemies so much to defend Linux that they will be forced into oblivion...

Probably a case of CYA

[Arabani]

Kyocera Mita appears to be a "small" company - revenues for the parent corporation (Mita is their printer division, it appears) were a little shy of $3 billion in 2006, while Epson had revenues of $12.7 billion last year. Granted, I'm not sure how valid this comparison is, but if this disparity is typical, it could very well be that Kyocera decided it would be safer to play Microsoft's game than to potentially face a court battle they would have trouble fighting.

They Don't.

[TheRaven64]

The GPL states that they may only distribute the code if they accompany it with the rights for any derivatives to use any patents it infringes. If they discover that they infringe some patents in Linux then they must stop distributing Linux until they have obtained a license to the patents that is compatible with the GPL (which means that anyone who is in the transitive closure of recipients of the code from them also gains the license). In summary, if they have obtained a license from Microsoft then either they are in violation of the GPL or no one else needs to obtain such a license and Microsoft's FUD evaporates in a puff of logic.

they're pretty bad poker players too

[petes_PoV]

It looks like Kyocera don't recognise a bluff when they see one.

Maye we should all get in touch with them and say that we might own patents that they may be infringing. Just to be sure, they need to sign this licensing agreement and pay $xxxx for an assurance that we won't sue them in the future.

This seems to be just what MS have done, but being bigger and scarier than we are, they can get a way with it.

Re:Damn!

[calebt3]

Seems to me that it is Kyocera that is bending over.

Re:Standad MS business practice...

[LWATCDR]

"...started when Bill Gates ported BASIC."
He didn't port basic. He wrote a Basic interpreter for the 8080!
I am not a Microsoft fan. In fact I am a Linux user but give me a break.
If Bill Gates ported basic then the Samba team ported Microsoft networking and the Mysql team ported SQL!
Porting means you have the source code to a program and you get it to run on a new cpu. Gates, with some help wrote a Basic interpreter for a tiny cpu in assembly. He WROTE a version basic for the 8080. He didn't port it.

Re:A few questions for Kyocera

[krycheq]

Yes, but when does a "patent" become a hindrance to society by stifling innovation and competition? All that Microsoft has done is made a non-specific claim about owning patents and companies that can't pay the toll are afraid to move forward because they might end up sued into non-existence.

That's called a back-door monopoly... and it hurts us, the marketplace, and the implementation of the benefits of technology we should all enjoy.

Re:A few questions for Kyocera

[alx5000]

Or maybe the agreement invoves certain benefits for the Korean firm from MS (money, etc), in exchange for providing the world with this PR stunt, that would complete their threat on linux alleged infringement on MS's IP...

Do they know "exactly" what they licensed???

[erroneus]

I find this to be rather ridiculous! Did they buy a license to use "all" microsoft patents? Without since explicitly defined range of identified patents, then they didn't explicitly buy anything at all. Microsoft must have identified which patents, in particular, they feel Linux is violating or else a Japanese company wouldn't have been persuaded to buy it. It goes against everything I know of Japanese personality to buy anything "nebulous." If they bought "protection" from microsoft, I'd be inclined to believe that. That much does fit the Japanese personality traits I am familiar with.

So I'm really curious as to what the nature of the deal was. Did they license specific patents or did they buy protection from law suits? And if they bought "law suit protection" then microsoft is once again guilty of organized crime.

Now Kyocera IS infringing?

[Lost Penguin]

Seems to me, Kyocera needs to release the added "MS IP" code they are using as required by the GPL ASAP!
If the Linux source code Kyocera is using is really containing "IP" from Microsoft, we should be able to see what the heck Kyocera licensed.

Flexible Business Ethics

[hyades1]

I'd give my eye teeth to know whether the same kind of effort Microsoft put forth unsuccessfully in Nigeria worked in the more understated environment of the Japanese corporate world. I doubt anything will ever be proven, but watch out for a quid pro quo down the road somewhere.

Tell me what I am missing here.

[westlake]

Under the deal, Microsoft gets to add patented Kyocera Mita technology to its Windows and Office products. What does Kyocera get? The right to use patented Microsoft technology in its printers, copiers and "certain Linux-based embedded devices."

Kyocera [kyocera.com] makes everything from ball-point pens to machine tools.

Kyocera is interested in things like data security in printing. Kyocera Mita America's Data Security Kit Offers Critical Data Protection of Stored Data on Color Multifunctional Products [kyoceramita.com] [November 14, 2007]

Microsoft is also interested in things like data security in printing.

Tell me why the Geek trots out his paranoia every time two companies that compliment each other sign a cross-licensing agreement.

If you read closely,

[mr_mischief]

it only says they're gaining the right to use Microsoft IP in embedded Linux devices. It doesn't say they were using the property already or that there was any infringement. Kyocera could make this deal and start using Microsoft IP that they were not using beforehand and Microsoft could word it exactly the same way. Kyocera could gain the permission to use Microsoft tech combined with Linux and still not plan on using it, and Microsoft could still word it the same way.

Re:Japanese culture?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm living in Japan at the moment...;-) In fact, I can see a huge Kyocera building from my back door. It's the headquarters I think, about a 10 minute bike ride away. It's tempting to go in and ask a few questions...:-)

However, it would appear that many Japanese have no problem using linux at all:
(Here's a list of 16 Japanese linux distros from Distrowatch :-))
http://distrowatch.com/search.php?category=All&origin=Japan&basedon=All&desktop=All&architecture=All&status=All [distrowatch.com]

And, of course, Japanese commercial distros, such as Turbolinux, etc. don't seem to have a problem using linux, etc.

Neither does the Japanese government, or the Tokyo Stock Market seem to have a problem using linux:
http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release.do?id=775707 [marketwire.com]

You, (and your uncle, apparently), need to get out more...:-)

Re:Useless Article...

[Edward Ka-Spel]

I agree, since everyone knows that Japan and Korea are really the exact same country, and everything that applies in Korea is exactly the same as in Japan. In fact, all of Asia is really just like one big homogeneous country. Kind of like corruption in Mexico means America is corrupt too.

On second though, it does sound more like a troll to me.