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Has the Novell/Microsoft Deal Made a Difference? 120

Posted by Zonk
from the only-to-healdline-writers dept.
willdavid writes "The deal between Microsoft and Novell was announced a little more than a year ago, and it's hard to judge what impact the deal has really had on the marketplace (if any). The two groups claim to have signed up 30 new customers (including heavyweights like Costco and Southwest Airlines), but it will still be some time before any real changes will be felt. 'Regardless of what impact the deal has triggered in the marketplace over the past year, ultimately it's about meeting market requirements. "The fact is that the vast majority of businesses do not want homogeneous IT infrastructures," Pund-IT analyst King said. "Instead, they want to be able to better and more easily manage their IT assets no matter what hardware or OS platforms they buy. Microsoft and Novell deserve congratulations on their one-year anniversary, but the needs of Linux and Windows customers are as much responsible for the partnership as the companies themselves."'"
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Has the Novell/Microsoft Deal Made a Difference?

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    • by Nephrite (82592)
      +1, Insightful.

      Duh.
    • The fact that Novell has not really managed to come close to taking Red Hat's crown in the enterprise space shows it's made no difference. Microsoft will do their FUD with or without Novell.

      The community does seem less likely to use their products (Novell, Linspire, Xandros) but most community users use Fedora or Ubuntu already
      • by JShadow (192326)

        The community does seem less likely to use their products (Novell, Linspire, Xandros)

        Well, perhaps the community is less likely, but I'd have to say that average sys-admins of SMB are more likely. In fact, I've gotten Linux in the door because of the Novell/Microsoft deal.

        Here's our story... Up to this point, our shop has been Microsoft only, and just last year I was told that "Microsoft is huge, it's going to be around a loooong time, so we should stick with them." However, when they saw Office (err

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by G Morgan (979144)
      I'd say it's had a huge impact. A lot of anti-corporate types have bleated on about it, consistently hoping to hell that it has an impact as proof of the evilness of allowing corporations into our FOSS world. I've had a lot of headaches reading the repetitiveness.

      As it is the deal is irrelevant. All it has done is proven many have a capacity to shoot themselves (and those around them) in the foot. The only real damage has been done by our own. Of course MS knew that people would go off the deep end, which i
  • Not really (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Divebus (860563) on Friday November 09, 2007 @05:48PM (#21301349)
    My Novell server is still disconnected.
    • Re:Not really (Score:4, Interesting)

      by h4rm0ny (722443) on Friday November 09, 2007 @06:17PM (#21301809) Journal

      Heh! Mine now has debian on it. I'd like to say it was a direct result of the Novell-Microsoft deal, which was the major factor, but SuSE's hideous application launcher "start" menu was also a contributor. ;)
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by LinuxDon (925232)
        I agree on the fact that it would have been a better choice for them to choose KDE instead of Gnome, although KDE is optional.
        But who cares about a GUI on a server? You should disable it anyway.

        Personally, our company is using Novell software with a lot of satisfaction (SLES, eDirectory, Groupwise, Zenworks, Intellisync). It really fills the open source gap and is rock solid.
        I really don't understand all of the bad press about Novell. Novell is really helping Linux into the business environment and is doing
        • by VENONA (902751)
          "I really don't understand all of the bad press about Novell."
          It's all about Novell getting into bed with Microsoft, and Novell management making some statements that were really problematic to the Linux community. The main disconnect is probably patents. Novell seems to be making a separate peace with Microsoft, and much of the Linux community rejects that approach. That concern is justified by recent events, such as Ballmer making vague threats which are clearly FUD, as the community has said many times t
      • by coogan (850562)
        I have just completed the rollout of 130 HP BL25p blades. The supplier asked me if I wanted Red Hat or SuSE, since they supported both - it was a no brainer... there will never be a SuSE box in my domain again.
      • Heh, you know you can change that, right? We are still talking about open source GNU/Linux aren't we? I will agree that the default openSuse Gnome start menu implementation is horrendous, I am not a SLED customer so I don't know so much about it of course. Then again I am not a Gnome fan anyway, I use KDE on openSuse and have to say I like the new openSuse kicker menu quite well. I feel the same way about most GTK interfaces, I prefer those built from QT. I just installed 10.3 and the GTK based Compiz Fusio
  • by holloway (46404) on Friday November 09, 2007 @05:48PM (#21301361) Homepage
    The one video that sums up this patent deal is this one by Eben Moglen [youtube.com]
    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by soloport (312487)
      I don't know. This guy seems pretty convincing. [youtube.com]
    • by Touvan (868256)
      I can't say I entirely agree that that strategy will work. I can't imagine too many developers getting all concerned over getting sued by MS for developing Linux (especially since many of them are in the EU). I would have thought the only ones that would not want to deal with the legal uncertainty are those big businesses, that MS is apparently trying to pay off with the Novel like deals.

      I suppose an argument could be made that they are really looking to scare off startups, and their investors, and not nece
      • by NickFortune (613926) on Friday November 09, 2007 @07:50PM (#21302759) Homepage Journal

        So why not take the money, and laugh all the way to the bank?

        Because there are more than just MS and Novell involved. And because there are issues of trust at stake.

        Look at it this way: suppose you find out I've been talking to your neighborhood thief. Suppose you find out that I've taken money from him to keep lookout while he robs your house. Suppose I then turn around to you and say "it's all right, your house has good locks, he's never going to get. Why shouldn't I take his money and laugh all the way to the bank?". Would you find that reassuring?

        Most people would not, I think, and rightly so. I've given no indication that, if the thief did get in, I would do anything to stop him; I've shown a willingness to collaborate with lawbreakers in your town; and I've demonstrated a worrying willingness to betray my associate that suggests I may betray others just as lightly. Hypothetically speaking, of course.

        In Novell's case, they've demonstrated a worrying disdain for the community that developed most of the software they sell, and they've given themselves a financial incentive to include MS patents in the code they contribute. And in doing so, they've lost the trust of a large portion of the community, trust which may prove difficult to regain. And while it's true that doesn't seem to particularly worry Novell, the fact that they hold the community in such low regard is worrying in itself.

        What it boils down to, I think, is that stratagems that work well in purely commercial environments don't always work so well in the world of free software. That, for my money, is "why not".

        • by Touvan (868256)
          I have to disagree with your base premise, that the MS/Novel deal is the same as criminal behavior. What they are doing is in fact perfectly legal - and again, will not help MS achieve the goals laid out by Eben Moglen. However, I have a bit more respect for MS, and I'd bet they have more than one goal in mind, in addition to what Eben Moglen points out. That secondary goal might be to simply fracture that community that develops Linux et al, if not for fear of direct litigation from MS, then for the more v
          • I have to disagree with your base premise, that the MS/Novel deal is the same as criminal behavior.

            I suppose you could read it that way, but that wasn't what I sought to imply. Supposing housebreaking were legal in your part of the world. Would that make my hypothetical behaviour from my last post acceptable to you? Would you be any more reassured by the excuse that I thought your locks too strong for the burglar to gain access?

            It should in theory also continue to get reciprocal help from the OSS comm

  • Sure it has (Score:1, Funny)

    by graviplana (1160181)
    It's the first in a series of claws that are slowly being sunk into the Fleshy Underbelly that is the LINUX Penguin. A couple more cleverly thrown chairs and my plan will be complete! Muhahaha. /Ballmervoice :)
    • That doesn't sound like Ballmer at all!

      I mean, it doesn't involve saying "FUCK GOOGLE!" or involve throwing chairs!
  • Of course it has! (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Obviously the deal has made a difference to Slashdot's bottom line. Things like the MS/Novell deal are perfect for getting everyone riled up into a frenzy and generating lots of page views!
  • by bl8n8r (649187) on Friday November 09, 2007 @06:05PM (#21301633)
    - More than 3000 people/companies have moved away from SuSE, OpenSuSE and Novell products [0]
    - Novell is going to incorporate GPL3 [1]
    - Vista still sucks

    [0] - http://techp.org/p/1 [techp.org]
    [1] - http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS3755005405.html [linux-watch.com]
    • by slashnik (181800) on Friday November 09, 2007 @06:53PM (#21302225)
      I have moved from Suse to Kubuntu
      I had always recommended Suse to beginners, not anymore.
      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Enderandrew (866215)
        Kubuntu's KDE implementation is poor. If you like SUSE look at PCLinuxOS or Mandriva.
        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by Enderandrew (866215)
          I find it odd that I was modded Flamebait, when the Kubuntu devs themselves admit the Kubuntu isn't that great right now. It doesn't integrate existing Ubuntu features into KDE well (it is often effectively two releases behind) and the lead designer said on his blog the other day that right now it is just Ubuntu with KDE thrown on it. They plan in the future to design with KDE in mind and improve the distro, but right now Kubuntu is not a good implementation of KDE. It just isn't.
          • Agreed.

            I thought kdesktop was not that well polished nor integrated like the gnome ubuntu desktop. I wondered if kubuntu was different but its the same. Cannonical seems to not care about kde and QA like they do with Gnome. As a result I always pick gnome with the ubuntu desktop.

            Maybe this might change when the community has enough of .NET, Microsoft, and Miguel and Cannonical switches to kde as a result.

            Well one could help with kde 4.0.
        • by KugelKurt (908765)
          That's strange, because I feel the opposite.
          IMHO the whole *drake*-tools just feel tacked on while Kubuntu's System Setting feel integrated.
          I don't have to open two different configuration tools in Kubuntu, because I don't know in which of those two I'll find the option I look for.
    • Re: (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Those that moved from SuSE weren't paying customers anyway, so why should Novell give a damn?
      Companies that actually pay for support contracts are the ones that Novell cares about, not your home set-up.
    • by HiThere (15173)
      I'm not sure those numbers mean what you say they mean, but *I've* stopped considering Novell products. (OTOH, there is no evidence that the people signing that petition were ever using Novell. Some of them probably were, but then a lot of people who didn't sign the petition have also moved away from Novell.)

      I do hope that Eben Mogen's hopes are justified. But my choices aren't dependent on what a court may decide, or such. Novell is no longer considered for purchase.

      Before the deal I had SUSE, Debian,
  • So last year around Christmas I break down and finally buy an iPod. There's pallets of iPods and they're moving, by the looks of it. There's also a pallet of Zunes. Looks like they've sold about 5 players.

    Making a deal with CostCo to sell your stuff doesn't mean people will buy it.

  • Of Course It Has (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 09, 2007 @06:10PM (#21301707)
    Microsoft is successfully splitting the Linux marketing into Dangerous Litigation Minefield and Peace of Mind Secure sides for the business world.

    And the Linux/Open Source crowd have been in a mad rush to 'prove just how open minded they are' to the world, because 'Microsoft isn't ALWAYS evil, you know' and other such blather.

    Instead of cutting Novell's air supply off with prejudice making it clear that any other distro that aids Microsoft in their Patent War against Linux/Open Source would be treated the same way, the open source crowd posted a few worthless +5 Insightful diatribes on Slashdot and other forums and then went right back to using Novell's Linux distros.

    You should hear the utter contempt the folks at Microsoft in charge of taking on Linux have for you open source folks. Your Weakness sickens them.

    • by fred fleenblat (463628) on Friday November 09, 2007 @06:33PM (#21301973) Homepage
      >> You should hear the utter contempt the folks at Microsoft in
      >> charge of taking on Linux have for you open source folks.
      >> Your Weakness sickens them.

      What actually sickens them is that GOOG is trading at about $660/share.
      • If you want something to grin about: take a look at a 5 year chart that compares: msft, aaple, rhat (or whatever it is now), and goog.

    • "Dangerous Litigation Minefield"

      Funny, isn't someone supposed to get hurt in a minefield, see cause it looks like Suse was "paid" a lot of money to "act" like there were land mines on an otherwise innocuous and beautiful beach front. Seriously, nothing screams weakness more than Microsoft warning everyone how dangerous it is to use FLOSS, while the majority of community shrugs it off. Weakness indeed, ballmer and these patent threats, have been little more than a joke, with some segments of the community actually taunting the beast "go

      • by hairyfeet (841228)
        Actually, I think it has more to do with scaring the crap out PHB's with the thought of lawsuits. If they can scare them away from the free Linux distros, that leaves them with Red Hat (very expensive), Xandros (Which works great for me and is affordable,but nobody has heard of it), and Suse (Last time I checked also expensive,at least for the enterprise version). And since the PHB cares about the bottom line more than anything he is going to "play it safe" and stick with Windows.

        Microsoft knows Vista is

    • You should hear the utter contempt the folks at Microsoft in charge of taking on Linux have for you open source folks. Your Weakness sickens them.
      Ohh.. the plan is working then :-)
    • You should hear the utter contempt the folks at Microsoft in charge of taking on Linux have for you open source folks. Your Weakness sickens them.
      uh, no. that would be our integrity that sickens them. they may not have figured this out yet, but they will.
  • Yes (Score:3, Interesting)

    by MrCopilot (871878) on Friday November 09, 2007 @06:16PM (#21301789) Homepage Journal
    Made me lose any and all interest in Suse.

    If you knew.........nevermind.

  • by Anonymous Coward
    The only problem I have with the deal is that I'm unable to find the download links to the new software that helps my linux and windows pcs connect better and become easier to manage.
  • by PrescriptionWarning (932687) on Friday November 09, 2007 @06:25PM (#21301885)
    "The fact is that the vast majority of businesses do not want homogeneous IT infrastructures," Pund-IT analyst King said. "Instead, they want to be able to better and more easily manage their IT assets no matter what hardware or OS platforms they buy. Microsoft and Novell deserve congratulations on their one-year anniversary, but the needs of Linux and Windows customers are as much responsible for the partnership as the companies themselves.'"

    I dont think any of that actually means anything. No really, it sounds like a bunch of Manager type talk but nothing concrete. All ideas and no real tangibles.
    • "The fact is that the vast majority of businesses do not want homogeneous IT infrastructures," Pund-IT analyst King said. "Instead, they want to be able to better and more easily manage their IT assets no matter what hardware or OS platforms they buy.

      Microsoft and Novell deserve congratulations on their one-year anniversary, but the needs of Linux and Windows customers are as much responsible for the partnership as the companies themselves.'

      You're quite right I think. I've quoted the two separately for

      • by DarkOx (621550)

        The fact is that the vast majority of businesses do not want homogeneous IT infrastructures," Pund-IT analyst King said. "Instead, they want to be able to better and more easily manage their IT assets no matter what hardware or OS platforms they buy.

        See I don't think they really care about hetrogeneous IT infrastructures. They might view it as a nice to have in terms of not being completly beholden to one vendor, not have their entire infrustructure vulnerable to the same threats, and so fourth; but they don't care. If they did care they would be investing hetrogeneous infrastructures despite additional management overhead.

        The reality is most small shops are either all Linux/BSD/appliance(with a few OEM licensed winders boxen on ppls desks who need

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by killjoe (766577)
          >Ok so maybe they are the only distribution where Microsoft won't sue you for useing Samba,

          Actually samba is specifically named as not being covered by the agreement. MS will sue you if you use samba even if you are using suse.

          In fact if you are using suse you are at a greater risk of a lawsuit because you have established a relationship with MS at that point.
    • by petrus4 (213815)
      What he's saying is that he thinks businesses want to dual boot, basically...in terms of running different operating systems...and that they also want no-brainer deployment with the types of hand-holding contracts from IBM and RedHat that they've always wanted.

      Business as usual, to a large extent...although he actually isn't saying anything negative about Linux. He's saying that he thinks businesses want diversity of operating systems, based on what they're doing...and Linux can benefit from that.
    • by LinuxDon (925232)
      [quote]"The fact is that the vast majority of businesses do not want homogeneous IT infrastructures," Pund-IT analyst King said. "Instead, they want to be able to better and more easily manage their IT assets no matter what hardware or OS platforms they buy. Microsoft and Novell deserve congratulations on their one-year anniversary, but the needs of Linux and Windows customers are as much responsible for the partnership as the companies themselves.'"

      I dont think any of that actually means anything. No reall
  • by Chas (5144) on Friday November 09, 2007 @06:37PM (#21302017) Homepage Journal
    It's caused a ton of friction between Novell and big chunk of the rest of the Linux community.
    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by childprey (1054198)
      And the ire of the fanboy is the most dangerous thing to those who oppose free standards
      • by Chas (5144)
        They're not quite the mob of Rome, but.... ;-)
      • by jedidiah (1196)
        If I were Novell, I would be far more worried about the ire of Jeremy Allison.

        People contribute to open projects for a reason & it's usually not so they can be a pawn in some game controlled by Microsoft.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      It cost them Jeremy Allison, and ruined any potential leadership in the file-server and Samba-based Windows-compatible server market. Given the choice between Microsoft patent protection, and actually having developers like Jeremy to write the code and make it work, I'd take Jeremy and his ilk everytime. In fact, I do so, and have submitted several proposals in the last year for storage solutions that carefully avoid Microsoft and Novell, for exactly this sort of reason.
  • by schwaang (667808) on Friday November 09, 2007 @06:53PM (#21302233)
    Over the past year several of Novell's msGNU/Linux employees have left:
    Robert Love - beagle, kernel, now at Google
    Joe Shaw - beagle, not at ITA Software
    Crispin Cowan and the entire AppArmor team (fired en-masse)
    plus others I can't remember off the top of my head

    Who of note is still drawing a Novell check?
    Miguel de Icaza, mono
    Nat Friedman, "chief technology and strategy officer for open source" (but mighty quiet lately)
    Greg Kroah-Hartman, kernel
    • by Enderandrew (866215) <enderandrew@gmaUMLAUTil.com minus punct> on Friday November 09, 2007 @07:05PM (#21302353) Homepage Journal
      Michael Meeks, who seems to be working predominantly on Gnome and OOo stuff. He still gets a check from Novell.
    • Re: (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Jeremy Allison, a lead Samba developer, also quit Novell. I think he's at Google now. And he was outspokenly critical of the Microsoft deal and explicit about it being the reason he quit.

      Thank you Jeremy! You're a role model for integrity.
    • by apokryphos (869208) on Friday November 09, 2007 @10:41PM (#21303881) Homepage
      Novell has some 5000 employees. You find it odd that some have left? (only two have stated that they left because of any deal). Novell/SUSE have more developers working on the Linux desktop than anyone else; that's many core KDE, GNOME, OOo, GCC, Kernel, and ALSA developers. So, a _lot_ of people there of note :)
      • by sgtrock (191182)
        Oh? Care to give some figures (with cites, please) that we can then use to compare to other sources?
        • by apokryphos (869208) on Friday November 09, 2007 @11:06PM (#21303977) Homepage
          Figures on what? In terms of contribution to the Linux desktop? I'm not sure there is any competition. While Red Hat is fully pushing the server into new avenues everywhere (which is of course great), SUSE are doing this on the server and the desktop. They have actively pursued the Linux desktop and have taken it very seriously, as you can see by their acquisitions of Ximian and SUSE. There is simply no other company that even really competes with the same level of consistent contribution throughout the whole desktop.
    • Does this mean Beagle's not going to change as much? I'm not sure if thats a good thing or not. Its the first thing I disable when I do a suse install. Its just too immature right now. Its not smart enough about limiting its indexing. But to be fair google desktop search also has this problem in addition to the security problems ( running a local webserver, inserting a link to said webserver into your webpages).

      I'm not a big fan of App armor either, but thats just because I don't think its that necessary
  • ...at least not to patent trolls [slashdot.org].
     
  • Measure? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Enderandrew (866215) <enderandrew@gmaUMLAUTil.com minus punct> on Friday November 09, 2007 @07:20PM (#21302487) Homepage Journal
    How do you measure the impact?

    How many companies have been terrified to look at Linux now that Microsoft is screaming that Linux users are violating patents? Didn't SCO use the same tactics, and everyone berated them for it? SCO's stolen code they wouldn't point out is the same as the unlisted patents that Microsoft feels are violated.

    Novell paid to license patents, and in doing so, they cast a shadow of guilt on all Linux distros. Can you quantify and put on a pie chart a FUD factor? Can you count how many users move from one distro to the other, when we don't have counts in the first place?

    And what of the other distros that ended up signing deals as well?
    • by sumdumass (711423)
      This FUD factor is only true because MS put the bait in the water and the FSF took it hook line and sinker. But hey, they were using it to push their own agenda.

      The bottom line was that the entire patent deal was supposed to only cover new products that Novell developed with the intent of helping linux and windows technologies to work together better and more efficiently. Novell has consistently said that the deal was for new tech and to get windows and linux working as well as repeatedly denied any knowled
      • Re:Measure? (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Enderandrew (866215) <enderandrew@gmaUMLAUTil.com minus punct> on Friday November 09, 2007 @08:36PM (#21303147) Homepage Journal
        I've read the exact verbiage of the deal, as well as Novell's FAQ about the deal.

        It simply says that Novell paid to license patents, and the ambiguity is notable. It doesn't have to clearly say that Linux violates Microsoft patents, Microsoft wins with even just a shadow of doubt here. If they can make corporations wary, then it will be enough to keep them from using Linux.

        I work in a moderately sized IT department for a local company these days, and most of the IT staff here say things like "it is against the law to use any GPL programs for commercial use", etc. Even the suggestion or rumor is enough to scare people away permanently often enough.
        • by sumdumass (711423)
          If you read the verbiage of the deal then you also know that it says that the protection doesn't cover products directly competing with Microsoft services and technologies. This would indicate to most people that Novell was truthful in their claims that they were looking to develop software to make the two platforms interact better with each other. Of course this was Novell's only claim on the matter and their entire reason for getting involved with MS in the first place.

          As for the idiots your work with. Us
          • We're a multiplatform shop (AIX, Solaris, Linux, Windows, though mainly Windows) but during my peer review for this latest SysAdmin job, one of the guys said if he had his way, we'd never have anything *Nix related on the network, especially Linux which he claimed was programmed "by teenage turds".

            He insisted that Microsoft has never done anything wrong, and that all problems on Microsoft platforms are caused by idiot third-party programs making crappy drivers or applications. Pretty much the only reason w
  • The deal has made no impact whatsoever in any of Novells products. Most integration with Microsofts products is either old or from open source components. The only exception is Zenworks 10 support for Vista but i really doubt that is because of the cooperation they have. In fact Novell relies on samba 4 for AD support, go figure that out. Where is the hyped cooperation there one might ask? This is just an attempt to justify taking loads of money from Microsoft to purport using their patents. PR wise it was
  • Yes it has.... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by segedunum (883035) on Friday November 09, 2007 @07:27PM (#21302561)
    ...to Microsoft. Let's see:
    • Has it stopped Microsoft from picking on Novell and stealing their customers, as Novell have hoped? No.
    • Is Novell lame and incompetent enough to try and get its biggest competitor to try and sell its own software?! You bet.
    • Given Microsoft the platform to claim that Linux and open source software infringes their patents? Check.
    • Given Microsoft access to Novell's customers to tell them about said infringement? Check.
    • Allowed Microsoft to sell a sanctioned version of Linux, in amongst a network controlled by Windows Domain Controllers as per the agreement? Check.
    • Allowed Microsoft to accelerate the move of Netware to Windows, via some meaningless SLES installations? Check.
    • Where's the interoperability? Is Microsoft contributing to Samba 4? Is it contributing to anything else? No.
    • Is Novell flushing the rest of itself down the toilet in the long run? Yep.
  • One difference is that I went from recommending SUSE as a commercial Linux option to customers and other contacts to recommending that they avoid it. Note that I don't "not recommend it", I "anti-recommend it". If it were just me, no big deal. But I'd bet I'm not the only one out there. I now recommend either Ubuntu or Red Hat (for those who are running other commercial software that depends on RH). I really think Novell made a dumb decision...
  • The impact is that I was willing to use Novell products in the past, but now I'm not interested in anything they have or will do. I also tell others not to purchase nor use any Novell product. I don't want them to bastardize Linux because we worked hard on this and we don't desire to have Microsoft come in and fuck it up.
  • Not the first time not the last. Just the tactics - spread FUD and pinch a slice of the market. Year down the line, do it again. That's a cunning and ruthless corporate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel [wikipedia.org]weasel for you.

    On the funny side, note that wikipedia article on weasels is compromised by 'weasel words' :)
  • This must *really* piss you guys off:
    Microsoft and Novell extend alliance [vnunet.com]

    I know that 99% of slashdotters desperately want the MS/Novell deal to flop, but you're going to have to accept the fact that it's here to stay. And it's causing companies to switch to Novell at Red Hat's expense. Know that.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by VENONA (902751)
      Doesn't piss me off at all. Your reference to "99% of slashdotters" as "you guys" rather makes me think you're a 1 percenter (or like to think of yourself that way) with an axe to grind.

      It's difficult for many companies to admit they've made a horrible mistake. Look at a one year stock price chart of RHAT v NOVL http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=1y&s=RHT&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=novl [yahoo.com]

      Sure SuSE can claim some client wins. So can Red Hat, as their current agreements with Amazon show. That sort of thing
  • What's the point of publishing stories about "the deal" over and over again?

    Does anyone really expect some discussion to this story that hasn't already be repeated gazillion times before?

    Does this story have anything significant that other stories about "the deal" don't have?
  • by WGR (32993) on Friday November 09, 2007 @10:48PM (#21303903) Journal
    I was talking to a Novell sales support person this evening. I asked him what the effect had been of the Novell/Microsoft deal and he replied that Microsoft is now Novell's biggest OEM partner, he said that Microsoft have sold ~60,000 SUSE licenses with support, at about $5,000 each. $300 million is not a laughing matter.

    Microsoft has realized that there are some things that Linux does better than Windows, especially in the server area, and wanted to guarantee a piece of the action. So far they seem to have succeeded. Novell gets the support business, Microsoft gets to keep a customer..
    • by VENONA (902751)
      Here are the last four quarters of Novell revenue, as per SEC filings, in Ugly Slashdot Table Format:

      Q4 2006 Q1 2007 Q2 2007 Q3 2007
      10/31/06 01/31/07 04/30/07 07/31/07
      244,905 224,596 463,752 243,135 (in thousands)

      Notice the Q2 '07 pop. This must have been when Microsoft paid up. But that income wasn't recognized as the usual license, maintenance, subscription, etc. fees that show up in the quarterly reports as "Total net revenue." Those numbers (in thousands) for the past few quarters are:

      Q1/06
    • by VENONA (902751)
      Final comment: don't troll. Or at least get basic terminology straight.

      OEM, for those that don't know, means Original Equipment Manufacturer. We're not talking hardware here, but software. Perhaps you meant 'vendor', and are claiming that Microsoft is now the largest Linux sales organization. On the strength of a claimed $300 million in sales, which wouldn't remotely support that claim, even if all coupons were used, which isn't remotely proven, and Microsoft could buy them out of petty cash, with no intent
      • by WGR (32993)
        OEM does not just apply to hardware. Base software such as operating systems are treated just like hardware in law. Selling other companies software as part of a equipment package is exactly what Microsoft is doing. It is using Novell as the supplier for stuff that they are selling to their customers. They are selling packaged systems that include Novell SUSE as part of the equipment.
  • is that I have moved from SuSE to RedHat.

    When Microsoft are /still/ FUDding Linux in their advertising, they're not helping shit. Novell gave them a blank cheque to carry on when they signed up. This carries on, I'm going back to RISC OS.
  • I disagree with most of the posts here on Slashdot on this issue.

    First, let me say that I do not own any Novel or Microsoft stock, and have absolutely no financial interest in any of these companies. I am simply trying to share my experience and observations here.

    While I do not like the way OSS/FOSS is being attacked by certain large commercial software vendors, OSS/FOSS certainly has a lot to learn from commercial software vendors when observed from a pure business perspective. It is usually better in
  • Wel at least some people take Novel serious know i gues.

    Who are using this deal anyway ???
    Those who where killed by MS licenses but had enough trust in linux, but where not wild enough to realy go into linux.
    The kind of customer that still likes to be free, but under the shared wings of novell and MS.
    What kind of customers are these i wonder ????

    Most likely the type that cannt choose between novel and MS or even UNIX.
    The type of customer that's wnat to be sure an like to bett on all horses.
    Well i think we s

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