With OES 2.0, Novell Moves NetWare To Linux

apokryphos writes "Novell's long journey from NetWare to Linux is finally complete, with Open Enterprise Server 2.0. Linux-Watch takes a look at the newly-released OES 2.0: 'Now, with OES 2.0, the NetWare operating system kernel, NetWare 6.5 SP7, is still there if you run it, but it runs on top of the Xen hypervisor. You can also run the NetWare services, or a para-virtualized instance of NetWare, on top of Xen with the SLES (SUSE Linux Enterprise Server) 10 SP 1 kernel. So, if you're wedded to NetWare and its way of doing things, you don't have to wave good-bye to it.'"

Skeptical

[PCM2]

Presumably the reason you are sticking with a platform that has not really changed much in a decade is because you are too risk-averse to jump to something else. That said, is swapping out your NetWare servers with "Nu-NetWare" running on top of a Linux kernel really less risky than just switching to Linux -- or to Windows with Active Directory, for that matter? If it's taken you this long to even consider replacing those servers, couldn't you have spent some of that time constructively -- by coming up with a longterm migration strategy that would enable you to minimize risk? Seriously, I have heard some arguments why NetWare is so much "better" or "more elegant" (or whatever) than a Windows network, but these arguments usually seem to hinge on some specific minor capability. It seems to me that you can get pretty much everything NetWare gives you on a Windows network with some third-party management products, with the upshot that your platform is not obsolete.

Re:Skeptical

[pegr]

Obsolete? It's been obsolete ever since Windows 3.0. What killed NetWare was their bloated Windows client. That's when Microsoft came in and ate their lunch.

The same thing happened with Word Perfect. They, too, couldn't manage the transition to Windows in a timely manner. Microsoft Word was pure joy compared to Word Perfect for Windows v1

For the additional apps.

[khasim]

eDirectory
GroupWise
ZENworks

On the other hand, Novell has ported all of them to Windows ... but not to Ubuntu. So you can have all the Novell apps on your Microsoft network.

Anyone care to comment on how nice it is to depend upon the good will of your biggest competitor for the stability of your apps?

Problems Problems Problems

[mpapet]

That said, is swapping out your NetWare servers with "Nu-NetWare" running on top of a Linux kernel really less risky than just switching to Linux

Yes it is. I can test and deploy this easier than starting fresh with anything else.

couldn't you have spent some of that time constructively
I did spend that time more constructively. The boss said "I've got other things for you to do that will actually make me money. Don't worry about something that basically works."

hese arguments usually seem to hinge on some specific minor capability
It works in Netware and I can't do it as easily on any other platform. Don't denigrate something you know nothing about.

One of the fundamental premises behind your opinion is the "constant upgrade cycle" mentality.
Is IT's job making work for itself by breaking things that work or making users/systems more productive? My boss and I both choose the latter. That's why I'm happy and work lots of very regular hours.

Re:Skeptical

[Glonoinha]

More than a year of uptime? That's child's play for Netware. I've seen plenty of boxes with several years uptime - all running Netware 4.x
I've heard stories of Netware servers that got lost, physically misplaced (one, according to legend, was drywalled into a building by a work-crew that didn't know it was there) that ran for a very long time (years) without anybody knowing where they were.

It pretty much takes a hardware failure to bring down a Netware box. A bad cpu fan killed one of mine, and a bad power supply killed another (both in the late '90s).

Re:iFolder once open sourced, now exclusive to OES

[Linker3000]

Is any of this likely to be of use to me - I have a legacy app that was written in Turbo Pascal using a file access unit that only works properly when the data files are on a Netware Server (it has close ties with NCP). We need to access the legacy data perhaps 2-3 times a year and at the moment, we just stick the caddy-based Netware disk in a spare PC fire it up for an hour or so and then close it all down - it would be ideal if there was a virtualised Netware 6.x (or even 4 or 5) that I could run on one of our Linux (or Windows) servers when required. The only other option is to port the data.

Yeah, we just happened to get 180 incompetent ppl

[nip1024]

I was one of several dozen people administering the Windows environment. This was from mid-98 through late 2001. We were using Windows NT workstation, NT server and I was one of the people who did the migration to Windows 2000. As of November 2000, there were still stability issues and security issues needing regular updates from Microsoft. Both of these things required rebooting the servers. I've seen several 3.x and 4.x Netware servers (from early to late 90's) that have stayed up for years at a time.

Also, it isn't 25 experienced admins, it is 25 IT personnel. I think only about 4 of them are experienced admins. The rest are techs, management, help desk, and web programmers.

The company I worked for had some of the best and brightest people I've ever worked with. The problems weren't because of lack of knowledge or skill, it was from a crappy product with scaling issues and ridiculous problems with security. The same problems many Microsoft products still suffer from today.

Since that time, I've worked in W2k environments, W2003, and I'm finally getting to work in another Netware environment. Strangely, even though we have 900 workstations and about 30 servers, we are able to provide all necessary services with only 15 IT people. Only 4 of us are experienced admins.

I've been in IT for 15 years professionally and another 10 years prior to that for recreation. I've also heard the arguments from zealots from both sides. The only ones I care about, though, are the ones from people who actually have in depth experience in both Windows and Netware. Of those people, the people who actually know what they are talking about, I don't hear a lot of praise for Windows on servers.

Re:Just a few things

[Medievalist]

1) eDirectory - Done. Has been multiplatform for years. Continues to be the single best meta directory repository on the market. There is not a single environment of any decent size that can get away with one directory to service all the business requirements, but eDirectory continues to be the best option for consolidating the directory data using Novell's Identity Manager suite of drivers and tools.

OpenLDAP connects all my operating systems and servers just fine, thanks. It is more difficult to implement because it requires more knowledge and skill, but we happen to have that already on site. Once it's up and running, it is as stable as NDS (and the underlying linux servers are more stable than post NW3, pre-linux Novell servers) and it's easier and quicker to modify (command lines instead of slow guis and java apps) and backup (just dump LDIFs every night). I have automagic replication and propagation working across dozens of servers on multiple sites, and total integration of windows and unix user accounts - just like NDS provides, only I'm doing it for less cost.

2) zenWorks - Pretty much anyone who has used it considers it the premiere tool for managing Windows clients. Only in the next release will they not require Netware for some of the components. The middle tier design and agent-based client make it a pleasure to work with compared to the fat Novell Client days.

I use perl injected dynamically at login time through samba. Again, this requires skill instead of money. Nuff said, I think.

3) Management tools - someone else already said it, but Novell cannot seem to stay focused (and enforce discipline on their own development teams) to provide a consistent management tool. They have gone from NWAdmin to ConsoleOne to iManager - except you still pretty much need each of them depending on what you are going to manage.

You're right, and anyway GUIs are too slow. Also, a GUI only offers you menu selection - while a CLI offers you the ability to create totally new solutions when you encounter a totally new problem or opportunity. CLIs are better for fast typists, and my wrists still haven't recovered from having to use Novell's abominable SAA Server configuration interface years ago.

4) File permissions - The NSS file system is pretty damn good, has been ported and made available on Linux for a few years now. It still provides the leading access controls / inherited rights / filtered rights that other file systems should be ashamed of for not offering.

And here it is. The true great advantage of Novell. I have no slick reply for this; the paucity of the ancient unix filesystem environment is too obvious to be denied (but the BSD heads will do so anyway).

For sure, Novell is just as if not more screwed up than any other company. They have squandered many opportunities to reestablish themselves as a significant technology player, but they are hardly on the verge of going out of business. They are profitable and still growing as a company. Product lines die out and Netware has been dying out for years, but they are considerably more than Netware.

I wish them well, personally. Their products add some variety to a marketplace that is dominated by repeated emulation of obsolete paradigms. Plus, they are paying the salaries of some top-notch FOSS people (like Miguel and his merry gnomes, for example) and we all benefit from that.