Mandriva Says No to Microsoft Linux Deal

Kurtz'sKompund writes "French Linux vendor Mandriva said no to dealing with Microsoft on open source patents. They're the third Linux vendor in a week to do so, joining Red Hat and Ubuntu in the 'against' column. TechWorld reports that Mandriva's CEO echoed statements from other open source leaders, saying essentially 'we don't need to pay protection money to do our job.' From the article: 'Jonathan Eunice, an analyst at Illuminata, said Microsoft's deals with Xandros and Linspire don't have the same impact as they would if they had been made with a major Linux vendor such as Red Hat. "I think Microsoft is going to second-tier players, and they're cutting deals with them because they are softer targets," Eunice said.'"

Who paid whom?

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

We know that MSFT actually paid Novell to get them. Something like Novell pays X$ to "license" the patent infringing technology from MSFT and MSFT paid Y$ to Novell to distribute some "coupons". Y > > X. May be some other such deals with Linspire and Sandisk/Samsung or whoever else who signed with MSFT.

Let us not forget. MSFT does have a large war chest, and we cant be sure if it backs up a huge truck load of money on to the driveway of these players, these guys wont have a change of hearts and sing a different tune. So let us not celebrate it too much.

I hope that perception catches on

[Weaselmancer]

"I think Microsoft is going to second-tier players, and they're cutting deals with them because they are softer targets," Eunice said.

Let's hope that perception catches on. Only second-tier Linux players go in for a Microsoft deal.

Want to give everyone the perception that you're one of the major players? Refuse to deal.

what if

[uglydog]

Let's just say that MS had something that they could use against Redhat, Ubuntu, and Mandriva. And say MS somehow shut them down.

Could Linspire (or some other company that did cut a deal) take up the old source code, call it the Enterprise version or something, and distribute it, without worrying about getting sued?

the canossa reference in the blog title

[Anonymous Coward]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walk_to_Canossa [wikipedia.org]

http://corp.mandriva.com/webteam/2007/06/19/we-wil l-not-go-to-canossa/ [mandriva.com]

Is it because vista sales were weak?

[ruewan]

Could poor vista sales be the reason for Microsoft brandishing vagues patent threats?

Re:Where's the business case?

[CastrTroy]

Who cares if I get people to acknowledge my patents. Does that mean they are valid patents? Would a judge even consider this? I don't see how getting people to pay for licenses for you patents adds any validity to them. Especially when nobody even knows what the patents are.

Re:Where's the business case?

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

Red Hat and a few other major players have openly contested MSFT's claim that Linux violates its patents. So the value of "Look Ma! These guys agreed and paid me money" argument is very low.

Further to sustain, "they paid us money" argument, they have to show that these companies paid more to MSFT than the recieved in concurrent deals. Already they can show that it is MSFT that paid Novell and not the otehr way around. They will move for discovery to see what kind of deals it offered to others who signed on. That is a can of worms MSFT would not like to open.

Further, many open source advocates have openly challenged MSFT to identify the alleged violations and they claim if there were really violations they could work around it easily. By not identifying these patents, Linux advocates could argue that MSFT has abandoned whatever rights it had. In copyrights/trademarks, if a company knows there is a violation of its trademark/copyright and still takes no action, it loses the trademark. This is one argument Linux could make.

In my opninion, IANAL, the strong, open and vocal dispute over the claims MSFT made over Linux has completely voided any residual "why would they have paid us money if they had not violated my patents?" arguments.

Re:Absolutely no reason to cave.

[aichpvee]

I think you mean the only cable news network that hasn't listed so far to the right that it's sunk. BTW, last time I heard Bill Gates was a Republican. Is there any evidence that this is no longer the case?

Re:So..

[smilindog2000]

I will say though, this makes my respect for those vendors who have refused to sign that much greater

Agreed. Even further, how many of us now boycott the Linux distros that buckled under M$ pressure? I do, and have steered multiple companies away from Suse already. Xandros and Linspire weren't really on my radar anyway, but now I'll be on the lookout for opportunities to torpedo them. Is there any community group organizing such a boycott?

Re:So..

[bonefry]

Turning away a deal with a devil that'll plop you tons of cash in your pocket to help fuel future R&D ...

You forget that it's the community that does the actual R&D ... and Novell, Xandros and Linspire will feel this when major projects start going GPL3, and they are left behind with old forks that need maintenance.

That's what happens when you bite the hand that feeds you ;)

Re:So..

[Wylfing]

So very well put.

These companies who profit wholly on the efforts of gift-economy programmers want to make deals that shaft those very same people. Either participate in the gift economy or don't. We don't care. But please don't try to poison our gift economy.

A deal they SHOULD be making

[CrazedWalrus]

... is one with each other. Some sort of mutual defense agreement. If MS does decide to sue, they should all come to each other's aid. Maybe one company is too small, but the combination of those in the 'against' column might stand a fighting chance.

They should also highly publicize this agreement. It will go a long way against the MS patent FUD. Actively recruiting players who were not approached, like IBM and Oracle, would go even further.

In the end, a couple things might happen:

1. MS doesn't sue, and good PR was had by all (except MS).
2. MS sues and gets a run for its money. They might even lose, all dollars being equal. Either way, they need to disclose their patents at that point, which ends this particular FUD campaign.

In any case, mutualy defense is a win for F/OSS.

Go European

[Burz]

Novell should move to Europe (where the SuSE distro probably should have stayed, in hindsight) and tear up their MS patent agreement into little pieces.

Or heck, Red Hat (having rejected MS patents outright) could even go first, with Linus in tow.

It would make perfect sense if the MS threats weren't also aimed at users.

Divide... and conquer.

[Camael]

Has anyone noticed in the euphoria over distros standing up to M$ that M$ has already won the first round?

Look what happened :

- Linux distros stand (more or less) united vs. M$
- M$ issues FUD over patents
- Some distros give in and licence with M$
- Community gets upset with licensed distros and threatens to boycott them.

So what happens if the community carries through its threat and boycotts Suse /Xandros /Linspire? They may, or may not die. If they die, the pool of competitors against M$ just got smaller, and the choices available to Linux users shrink. If they don't die, the community is fractured on whether or not to support these distros, and most probably there will be infighting within the community of Linux users.

Either way its profit for M$.

Second Tier

[Anonymous Coward]

"I think Microsoft is going to second-tier players, and they're cutting deals with them because they are softer targets" -- Is Novell a soft, second-tier player? Maybe MS just got lucky.

-Benjamin Vander Jagt