whitehartstag writes with a link to a Network World article about statements from Xandros in the wake of their Microsoft deal. Xandros CEO Andreas Typaldos made a point of stating that they don't believe their product violates any of Microsoft's patents. Nor, he said, did the software giant share with them exactly which patents they believe Linux violates. Just the same, he's disappointed with the reaction they've received from the open source community. "Feedback from the Linux community has been on the order of 'you shouldn't really be talking to the devil.' Linux and open-source advocates believe it is a big issue and say the Xandros deal, and another signed by Novell with Microsoft last year, erodes open source licensing provisions especially around intellectual property issues. Indeed, the Free Software Foundation is rewriting its GNU General Public License (GPL) 3.0 to prohibit such patent deals in the future."
Future submitters, just keep this text on hand the next time some idiot signs a deal with Microshaft:
$COMPANY made a point of stating that they don't believe their product violates any of Microsoft's patents. Nor, $COMPANY said, did the software giant share with them exactly which patents they believe Linux violates. Just the same, $COMPANY is disappointed with the reaction they've received from the open source community.
It's almost beyond belief that these guys keep giving the community a great big "FUCK YOU", and yet are always surprised when we don't welcome them as liberators, with flowers and open wallets.
Typaldos says that was the genesis of Monday's deal with Microsoft that covered interoperability and IP licensing and included "covenants" to protect customers using Xandros software from any potential patent-infringement claims from Microsoft.
It looks like this company is actually helping the community. They're eliminating the fear that if their product is used, they, the customer, won't have to worry about the big bad MS coming after them. After all, wasn't this the exact same issue that kept folks from
It looks like this company is actually helping the community. They're eliminating the fear that if their product is used, they, the customer, won't have to worry about the big bad MS coming after them.
I guess the problem is that different people have different definitions of 'the community.' Xandros (and you) seem to think that 'the community' is "Xandros and their customers." Whereas others think that 'the community' is "the developers and the users of the software" (and note that those "users" may or may not be Xandros customers).
So, in effect, Xandros is making a deal that puts their 'community' above the community at large, whereas I would argue that the intent of the GPL in general, and the open-source developers that use it, is to create something that the wider community (all developers, all users, including Xandros and their customers) will ultimately benefit from.
I think that as long as companies like Novell and Xandros keep thinking of the community of only being made up of their paying customers, they are missing the point of free software and ultimately will be missing out on the crucial developments that they require to maintain profitability.
But doesn't anything that hurts Xandros' customers also hurt the community as you defined them?
Be that as it may, you may notice that noone has yet (to my knowledge, at least) been hurt from Microsoft's patent threats. However, the very act of Xandros and Novell signing this deal with Microsoft very much hurts the community at large. Not only does it seems to lend credence to Microsoft's claims, but even worse: It essentially enforces the Microsoft tax even on Linux sales! It means that Microsoft still get
After all, wasn't this the exact same issue that kept folks from adopting Linux when the whole SCO thing was just getting started because they were afraid, and rightfully so, that SCO would come after them?
No. Ever since SCO first started talking, Linux has never stopped gaining market share.
>No. Ever since SCO first started talking, Linux has never stopped gaining market share.
That is a trend I'm sure the market will correct now that Microsoft has begun to assert its' right to protect its' investment in its' intellectual property.
It will be interesting to compare Windows Server market share versus Linux market share a year from now.
It will be interesting to compare Windows Server market share versus Linux market share a year from now.
It sure will, given that at least up until this whole thing began (I don't have stats for after it) Linux was the only operating system gaining market share, though Windows was mostly holding. This is because Linux takes more seats away from Legacy UNIX than it does from Windows.
Frankly I think that the whole patent flap will have little to no effect on Linux adoption.
They're pretty popular for people who run computer labs full of Macs (schools, for example). The netboot and ARD stuff makes it much easier to install new machines, distribute cloned images to their drives remotely (or remove the hard drives entirely and netboot them all), set up network home directories and domain-wide login accounts, etc.
That said, you're right that Apple has never really pushed the enterprise server market.
Msft wants the public to believe that *only* novell and xandros can be used without fear. Where does that leave redhat, which has about 75% of the enterprise market? Or Debian, or Ubuntu, or Mandrake, or Slackware?
The very fact that these deals are made makes Linux look dirtry - which is of course the idea. These companies take msft fud money to help msft imply that linux is a legal mine-field.
They're eliminating the fear that if their product is used, they, the customer, won't have to worry about the big bad MS coming after them.
And exactly what is the Xandros product? Just an FYI, Xandros does not own linux, they distriute linux which is licensed to them by the owners of the copyrights under the GPL. The Novell and Xandros deals are BS because they are linux distributors and at best a small player in the development of linux.
From the base of the kernel source code I ran an egrep -ir "Xandros" * | egrep "Copyright" and came up with nothing, for Novell there was only one. If you try something like "Red Hat" or "IBM" or "Hewlett" you come up with a list of multiple copyrights.
So is Microsoft signing a deal with Xandros to not go after their customers for the services that Xandros provides? Its definitely not for any Xandros intellectual property.
wasn't this the exact same issue that kept folks from adopting Linux when the whole SCO thing was just getting started because they were afraid, and rightfully so, that SCO would come after them?
It is the same issue, both are based on posturing rather than facts, linux adoption did not stop, and there was no reason to fear The SCO Group unless you were a previous customer of the original SCO. The SCO Group professed loudly the same threats in the press but in the end they didn't go after a single linux user, they went after their own customers who did business with them in the past.
So if The SCO Group is any hint of what will happen its likely the people who are signing deals with Microsoft are the ones who will get screwed.
"They're eliminating the fear that if their product is used, they, the customer, won't have to worry about the big bad MS coming after them."
No, they're trying to create fear that Linux contains their IP. They want to eliminate all free as in beer versions of Linux. This is just step two of their plan. The SCO litigation was step one.
I fail to see how "pay us and we won't crush you" qualifies as 'doing something good.'
It's not quite that simple. What Microsoft is doing is establishing a base of transactions for the underlying concepts used in FOSS projects, so they can take the projects from the community.
The free software community works on a non-transactional basis. There's an expectation of delayed gratification from many contributors. For example, I write tools for my field, but I'm a poor coder. I taught myself programming out
"We're dissapointed in the way the community is handling this..."
Here's a note for you Xandros & Co. -
The community owes you nothing. Not dignity. Not respect. Nothing.
The community continually develops and improves a product for free - you take it, modify it, and profit from it.
Without them your business doesn't exist.
Stop complaining. Communities are fickle.
There's 2 ways to look at it that I see: 1) They're buying 'insurance' so they won't get out-lawyered and sued out of existence by an 800 pound gorilla in the future, a gorilla that out foxed the US Justice Department IMO, and did it while the *rest* of the US government was still paying them money ass over tea kettle to do it. 2) They're paying 'protection money', like insuring your store from the mob and an 'accidental' burning.
There's probably more I haven't thought of, and while I don't agree with their d
Microsoft does not seek to indemnify the Linux industry. It does not seek to indemnify Novell nor Xandros, nor LG, nor any other. It seeks to divide. By dividing they conquerer. If they can cut into the unified front they'll have a greater chance of winning against some or many. The companies that enter such agreements should be shunned as entities within the Linux industry. They should be considered non-entities and not part of Linux. They should not be allowed to continue to distribute Linux in any
Until Microsoft actually reveals the patents that are being "violated" it really can't be judged what patents (if any) do and don't violate Microsoft patents. Until this happens, all we are being fed is hearsay and speculation.
FTFA: The customer in the market place is dictating what we are doing, not my engineers
You are using a tremendous amount of software your engineers didn't write. I'd say that inevitably, the authors of that software will dictate what you are doing. You and the customers are just enjoying the ride with their permission. Try to remember that the next time you throw dirt in their eyes--assuming you get that chance.
Personally, if I could get Microsoft to sign something saying that would never sue me (for anything), I'd find the money somewhere to pay for it. In fact, if I can find someone who will give me a get out of jail free card for any major corporation, I could have a lot of fun:)
How so? If I buy car insurance, I know what risks I am covering: collision, uninsured drivers, etc. If I buy house insurance, I know what risks I am covering: fire, flood, etc. If I buy "Microsoft insurance for Linux", what risks am I covering? Citing "un-specified patent violations" is not good enough, you cannot buy insurance for "unspecified threats", unless it is the mob coming by to compliment you on your car or house and how shameful it would be if something bad happened t
I agree. I also notice that insurance companies come looking for more money each term.... how long till microsoft asks for more money? (Just like the mob).
i.e We won't lawyer up on you (break your knee caps) unless you pay us money... or at least until we want more money.
"The modern software world is pretty much ruled by GCC"
What color is the sky in your world? GCC is a mighty fine thing, but it's not remotely the only (or even the dominant) compiler out there.
"It would be interesting to see what happens when that one's license changes to GPL3."
Why? It won't effect programs compiled by it any more than the current license does. Even in your fantasy-land where GCC is a major player in commercial software development, it going to v3 wouldn't make any difference.
GCC is however by far the dominant compiler in the Free Software world, and Linux is made of Free Software.
It should be noted that the grandparent to your post said the "modern software world" is pretty much ruled by GCC. Not "Free" software. The modern software world.
Free software is by no means even the majority of the modern software world. By that token, GCC is nowhere close to ruling the modern software world.
In reality, GCC is basically a bit player in the modern software world. Granted, it's a ve
IMHO, Microsoft's patent claims lack merit, for several reasons: prior art; obviousness; and limits on patenting math. Let's turn up the volume on our doubt of Microsoft's claims. Please challenge Microsoft to sue you (yes, you AND your company) by signing this list of 1,395 people who doubt Microsoft's patent claims:
I usually don't bother replying to AC posts, but I need to comment on this. While I do not claim to be in a position to definitely answer the question, "Does Microsoft have any misappropriated code anywhere in any of its products?" I am a former Microsoft employee (but not a Microsoft apologist; I didn't much care for it there, would not work there again, and am a Linux and Mac user, not a Windows user), and I would be pretty surprised if there is an misappropriated code.
It's a rare company that has survived a close friendship with Microsoft. Still, it's always good to have an example to warn off future companies who think that they can deal with Microsoft as equals.
"We did not discuss patents [with Microsoft] and we don't think Linux violates any patents and we were not asked about it," Typaldos said. "It is a non-issue for us."
...then...
"Linux says it does not infringe on patents, Microsoft say otherwise. But customers say let me buy some insurance because if there are any flying sparks I don't want to be caught in the middle of that."
Typaldos says that was the genesis of Monday's deal with Microsoft that covered interoperability and IP licensing and included "covenants" to protect customers using Xandros software from any potential patent-infringement claims from Microsoft.
If Microsoft is running around shrieking about patents, and if your customers are demanding you do something because they are feeling vulnerable about patents, and then you strike a deal on that very issue - but don't talk about patents, then you don't know what the hell you're doing.
This chicanery hasn't yet hit a distro that I use, but it's a trend that really should stop.
This chicanery hasn't yet hit a distro that I use, but it's a trend that really should stop.
It bothers me too, but at the same time we're learning valuable lessons about who we can and cannot trust.
Everyone who signs one of these agreements with Microsoft simply goes on my "do not buy -- ever" list. And I would assume that many others are doing the same.
Making these deals now might help them retain or even attract certain specific customers, but in the long run when we are all looking back on this, we'll be avoiding those companies which knuckled under and kowtowed to Microsoft.
I went with Linux [originally] specifically to get away from Microsoft! It's become my refuge from their incompetence, and I refuse to help anyone who compromises that.
Didn't this happen at least ten times with SCO?? A company/CEO signs a deal with a very unpopular/hostile to the free/open source movement and the CEO/PHB always manages to be "shocked" by the angry response of the community... Do these guys read anything besides pr0n? The Novell (and reactions from the 'community') deal was front page news... This guy must be looking for a job in the White House
...the signal they are sending to customers and (worse yet) potential customers is what matters... ...and that signal is: "Yes we do belive Linux is violating Microsoft's patents." Do not sign those deals, Microsoft will kill you wheather you sign or not and you are giving them more ammo to kill you with.
Is it me, or do these companies not see that for the majority of distros these are simply an complex form of suicide?
It looks as though they get whispered blandishments from MS that this will make them special and unique, and improve their attractiveness to their customers, but all I can see is that a lot of individuals and SMEs will automatically exclude them from consideration as a distro after the deal is inked.
An alternative interpretation is that the people who sign the deals stand to make $$$ from the deals, and they see that as better than being YALD (Yet Another Linux Distro).
Defendant: I'm *not* guilty, I totally didn't kill that guy.
Community: But.. [looks in a the report paper] why did you bought the judge flowers, then bribed her, then threatened her if "she doesn't behave"?
Defendant: Have you seen her? She's a very hot chick. I just totally dig her. It's got nothing to do with my case. I mean, we all like a hot chick. You gays or something? I'm disappointed.
The target that you should be aiming for regarding these patent agreements is not Xandros, or Novell, or even Microsoft. It should be the borked Software Patent laws that you've got in the US. Fix those, and you'll have no need of any patent agreemetns, or any patent clauses in the GPLv3. So, where are the details of the letters you're all sending to your Senators / Congress-people? (You ARE sending them aren't you???) Where is the campaign to change the law? If you lot spent half the time trying to amend le
First they came and they took Novell And I said nothing because I did not use SuSE Then one day they came and they took the people of the Xandros faith And I said nothing because I had no faith left One day they came and they took LG Electronics And I said nothing because I had no Xbox One day they burned Open Office.org And I said nothing because I was born to use Emacs Then one day they came and they took me And I could say nothing because I was as guilty as they were For not speaking out and saying that all men have a right to freedom On any land I was as guilty of genocide As you All of you For you know when a man is free And when to set him free from his slavery So I charge you all with genocide The same as I One of the 18 million dead Jews 18 million dead people -- from Charles Mingus, after Martin Niemöller
From the article: "Indeed, the Free Software Foundation is rewriting its GNU General Public License (GPL) 3.0 to prohibit such patent deals in the future."
GLP 3.0 does no such thing. What it does is extend any such patent protection deals to all users of the GPL 3.0 software, not just the group that made the deal.
Microsoft certainly has the available cash, the motive (FUD Linux), and no downside - it's not like the Linux community is looking to them for friendship.
Face it, this is the real face of Microsoft becoming manifest at last. Ignore any "Linux Evangelists" they hire.
Come on in stead of finding out if linux really does violate microsofts patents and fixing them...
Well, I've not been following this whole thing very closely, but I do recall seeing the frequent complaint that Microsoft refuses to identify which patents are being infringed upon. Given that Microsoft probably holds thousands upon thousands of patents, I expect that it's not reasonable to expect the Linux community to proactively slog through them all and make sure all violations are corrected.
If I understand correctly, at least part of the burden is on Microsoft to defend their patents. I'm sure if they provided a list of the violations, the community would take care of the violations. It just seems to me that not releasing the list means either (1) there's not really any substantial violations, or (2) Microsoft just wants the spectre of patent infringement hanging over Linux as long as possible. Or maybe a little of both.
Just my uninformed two cents, though...take it with a block of salt.
I've thought about this before... anyone have any kind of inkling as to
- how many patents does MS have? or how/where to find out? can they be electronically leached somehow?
- how easy are they to turn from legalease technojumbo to english?
- what kind of effort it might take to review each one?
Maybe an MS patent wiki is in order.
Start with (hopefully) an automated dump of all patents into a wiki of some sort where people can read them, and link to prior art, and/or state whether this might be in us
We are talking about a company that outright lied the USA-DOJ, and the EU, A company which has been caught red-handed in numerous scams, and outright theft. A company with a very well documented history of numerous mis-information campaigns.
Msft is funding the scox-scam, stold stacker technology, hires bloggers to post msft propaganda, hires shill journalists like Enderle, files dozens - if not hundreds - of bogus patents, and creates fake think-tanks. Msft is currently running a enormous fud campain against ODF - and ruined the career of Peter Quinn along the way. Msft has been caught secretly sponsoring fake TCO studies, and fake benchmarking studies.
Handy boilerplate, if this dumb trend continues (Score:5, Insightful)
Future submitters, just keep this text on hand the next time some idiot signs a deal with Microshaft:
It's almost beyond belief that these guys keep giving the community a great big "FUCK YOU", and yet are always surprised when we don't welcome them as liberators, with flowers and open wallets.
I disagree - but I know where you're coming from. (Score:2, Informative)
It looks like this company is actually helping the community. They're eliminating the fear that if their product is used, they, the customer, won't have to worry about the big bad MS coming after them. After all, wasn't this the exact same issue that kept folks from
Re:I disagree - but I know where you're coming fro (Score:5, Insightful)
So, in effect, Xandros is making a deal that puts their 'community' above the community at large, whereas I would argue that the intent of the GPL in general, and the open-source developers that use it, is to create something that the wider community (all developers, all users, including Xandros and their customers) will ultimately benefit from.
I think that as long as companies like Novell and Xandros keep thinking of the community of only being made up of their paying customers, they are missing the point of free software and ultimately will be missing out on the crucial developments that they require to maintain profitability.
Parent
Re: I disagree (Score:3, Interesting)
Be that as it may, you may notice that noone has yet (to my knowledge, at least) been hurt from Microsoft's patent threats. However, the very act of Xandros and Novell signing this deal with Microsoft very much hurts the community at large. Not only does it seems to lend credence to Microsoft's claims, but even worse: It essentially enforces the Microsoft tax even on Linux sales! It means that Microsoft still get
In a word, "No". (Score:2)
No. Ever since SCO first started talking, Linux has never stopped gaining market share.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
That is a trend I'm sure the market will correct now that Microsoft has begun to assert its' right to protect its' investment in its' intellectual property.
It will be interesting to compare Windows Server market share versus Linux market share a year from now.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
It sure will, given that at least up until this whole thing began (I don't have stats for after it) Linux was the only operating system gaining market share, though Windows was mostly holding. This is because Linux takes more seats away from Legacy UNIX than it does from Windows.
Frankly I think that the whole patent flap will have little to no effect on Linux adoption.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
They're pretty popular for people who run computer labs full of Macs (schools, for example). The netboot and ARD stuff makes it much easier to install new machines, distribute cloned images to their drives remotely (or remove the hard drives entirely and netboot them all), set up network home directories and domain-wide login accounts, etc.
That said, you're right that Apple has never really pushed the enterprise server market.
These deals are not meant to "eliminate" fear (Score:5, Insightful)
Msft wants the public to believe that *only* novell and xandros can be used without fear. Where does that leave redhat, which has about 75% of the enterprise market? Or Debian, or Ubuntu, or Mandrake, or Slackware?
The very fact that these deals are made makes Linux look dirtry - which is of course the idea. These companies take msft fud money to help msft imply that linux is a legal mine-field.
Parent
Re:I disagree - but I know where you're coming fro (Score:4, Interesting)
And exactly what is the Xandros product? Just an FYI, Xandros does not own linux, they distriute linux which is licensed to them by the owners of the copyrights under the GPL. The Novell and Xandros deals are BS because they are linux distributors and at best a small player in the development of linux.
From the base of the kernel source code I ran an egrep -ir "Xandros" * | egrep "Copyright" and came up with nothing, for Novell there was only one. If you try something like "Red Hat" or "IBM" or "Hewlett" you come up with a list of multiple copyrights.
So is Microsoft signing a deal with Xandros to not go after their customers for the services that Xandros provides? Its definitely not for any Xandros intellectual property.
It is the same issue, both are based on posturing rather than facts, linux adoption did not stop, and there was no reason to fear The SCO Group unless you were a previous customer of the original SCO. The SCO Group professed loudly the same threats in the press but in the end they didn't go after a single linux user, they went after their own customers who did business with them in the past.
So if The SCO Group is any hint of what will happen its likely the people who are signing deals with Microsoft are the ones who will get screwed.
Parent
Not quite... (Score:4, Insightful)
No, they're trying to create fear that Linux contains their IP. They want to eliminate all free as in beer versions of Linux. This is just step two of their plan. The SCO litigation was step one.
Parent
Re:You must be new here. (Score:5, Insightful)
I fail to see how "pay us and we won't crush you" qualifies as 'doing something good.'
By that metric, the Mafia must be the best guys ever! All they want is your money, and they'll be ever so nice to you.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It's not quite that simple. What Microsoft is doing is establishing a base of transactions for the underlying concepts used in FOSS projects, so they can take the projects from the community.
The free software community works on a non-transactional basis. There's an expectation of delayed gratification from many contributors. For example, I write tools for my field, but I'm a poor coder. I taught myself programming out
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Handy boilerplate, if this dumb trend continues (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
1) They're buying 'insurance' so they won't get out-lawyered and sued out of existence by an 800 pound gorilla in the future, a gorilla that out foxed the US Justice Department IMO, and did it while the *rest* of the US government was still paying them money ass over tea kettle to do it.
2) They're paying 'protection money', like insuring your store from the mob and an 'accidental' burning.
There's probably more I haven't thought of, and while I don't agree with their d
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Completely inacurate (Score:5, Insightful)
This guy has forgotten who the real engineers are (Score:5, Insightful)
You are using a tremendous amount of software your engineers didn't write. I'd say that inevitably, the authors of that software will dictate what you are doing. You and the customers are just enjoying the ride with their permission. Try to remember that the next time you throw dirt in their eyes--assuming you get that chance.
So You Made a Deal... (Score:4, Interesting)
Especially when significant money is involved?
Are you competent to even run this company?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Personally, if I could get Microsoft to sign something saying that would never sue me (for anything), I'd find the money somewhere to pay for it. In fact, if I can find someone who will give me a get out of jail free card for any major corporation, I could have a lot of fun
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
How so? If I buy car insurance, I know what risks I am covering: collision, uninsured drivers, etc. If I buy house insurance, I know what risks I am covering: fire, flood, etc. If I buy "Microsoft insurance for Linux", what risks am I covering? Citing "un-specified patent violations" is not good enough, you cannot buy insurance for "unspecified threats", unless it is the mob coming by to compliment you on your car or house and how shameful it would be if something bad happened t
Re: (Score:2)
i.e We won't lawyer up on you (break your knee caps) unless you pay us money... or at least until we want more money.
Protection Money (Score:4, Insightful)
The difference between insurance and protection money is that the insurance company isn't threatening to burn down your store.
Parent
you should be ashamed of yourselves (Score:2)
GCC (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
What color is the sky in your world? GCC is a mighty fine thing, but it's not remotely the only (or even the dominant) compiler out there.
"It would be interesting to see what happens when that one's license changes to GPL3."
Why? It won't effect programs compiled by it any more than the current license does. Even in your fantasy-land where GCC is a major player in commercial software development, it going to v3 wouldn't make any difference.
Re: (Score:2)
GCC is however by far the dominant compiler in the Free Software world, and Linux is made of Free Software.
Re: (Score:2)
It should be noted that the grandparent to your post said the "modern software world" is pretty much ruled by GCC. Not "Free" software. The modern software world.
Free software is by no means even the majority of the modern software world. By that token, GCC is nowhere close to ruling the modern software world.
In reality, GCC is basically a bit player in the modern software world. Granted, it's a ve
Let's put pressure on MSFT to put up or shut up (Score:5, Informative)
http://digitaltippingpoint.com/wiki/index.php?tit
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
While I do not claim to be in a position to definitely answer the question, "Does Microsoft have any misappropriated code anywhere in any of its products?" I am a former Microsoft employee (but not a Microsoft apologist; I didn't much care for it there, would not work there again, and am a Linux and Mac user, not a Windows user), and I would be pretty surprised if there is an misappropriated code.
To know why I think so, you have to u
Making friends with the crocodile. (Score:2)
TMBG quote FTW! (Score:2, Interesting)
No Idea What They're Doing (Score:4, Insightful)
From TFA:
"We did not discuss patents [with Microsoft] and we don't think Linux violates any patents and we were not asked about it," Typaldos said. "It is a non-issue for us."
...then...
"Linux says it does not infringe on patents, Microsoft say otherwise. But customers say let me buy some insurance because if there are any flying sparks I don't want to be caught in the middle of that."
Typaldos says that was the genesis of Monday's deal with Microsoft that covered interoperability and IP licensing and included "covenants" to protect customers using Xandros software from any potential patent-infringement claims from Microsoft.
If Microsoft is running around shrieking about patents, and if your customers are demanding you do something because they are feeling vulnerable about patents, and then you strike a deal on that very issue - but don't talk about patents, then you don't know what the hell you're doing.
This chicanery hasn't yet hit a distro that I use, but it's a trend that really should stop.
Re:No Idea What They're Doing (Score:5, Insightful)
It bothers me too, but at the same time we're learning valuable lessons about who we can and cannot trust.
Everyone who signs one of these agreements with Microsoft simply goes on my "do not buy -- ever" list. And I would assume that many others are doing the same.
Making these deals now might help them retain or even attract certain specific customers, but in the long run when we are all looking back on this, we'll be avoiding those companies which knuckled under and kowtowed to Microsoft.
I went with Linux [originally] specifically to get away from Microsoft! It's become my refuge from their incompetence, and I refuse to help anyone who compromises that.
Parent
job search (Score:2)
It doesn't matter what he is saying... (Score:2, Insightful)
...and that signal is: "Yes we do belive Linux is violating Microsoft's patents."
Do not sign those deals, Microsoft will kill you wheather you sign or not and you are giving them more ammo to kill you with.
Deals like this with MS seem to be suicide (Score:3, Interesting)
It looks as though they get whispered blandishments from MS that this will make them special and unique, and improve their attractiveness to their customers, but all I can see is that a lot of individuals and SMEs will automatically exclude them from consideration as a distro after the deal is inked.
An alternative interpretation is that the people who sign the deals stand to make $$$ from the deals, and they see that as better than being YALD (Yet Another Linux Distro).
I'm likely missing something, of course...
I'm *not* guilty! (Score:2)
Community: But.. [looks in a the report paper] why did you bought the judge flowers, then bribed her, then threatened her if "she doesn't behave"?
Defendant: Have you seen her? She's a very hot chick. I just totally dig her. It's got nothing to do with my case. I mean, we all like a hot chick. You gays or something? I'm disappointed.
You're all aiming for the WRONG TARGET (Score:2, Insightful)
So, where are the details of the letters you're all sending to your Senators / Congress-people? (You ARE sending them aren't you???) Where is the campaign to change the law? If you lot spent half the time trying to amend le
i can't wait for linuxworld... (Score:3, Informative)
One Day They Came... (Score:3, Interesting)
First they came and they took Novell
And I said nothing because I did not use SuSE
Then one day they came and they took the people of the Xandros faith
And I said nothing because I had no faith left
One day they came and they took LG Electronics
And I said nothing because I had no Xbox
One day they burned Open Office.org
And I said nothing because I was born to use Emacs
Then one day they came and they took me
And I could say nothing because I was as guilty as they were
For not speaking out and saying that all men have a right to freedom
On any land
I was as guilty of genocide
As you
All of you
For you know when a man is free
And when to set him free from his slavery
So I charge you all with genocide
The same as I
One of the 18 million dead Jews
18 million dead people
-- from Charles Mingus, after Martin Niemöller
GPL 3.0 does *not* prevent these types of deals (Score:3, Informative)
Goodbye Xandros! (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Face it, this is the real face of Microsoft becoming manifest at last. Ignore any "Linux Evangelists" they hire.
Re:hmm (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, I've not been following this whole thing very closely, but I do recall seeing the frequent complaint that Microsoft refuses to identify which patents are being infringed upon. Given that Microsoft probably holds thousands upon thousands of patents, I expect that it's not reasonable to expect the Linux community to proactively slog through them all and make sure all violations are corrected.
If I understand correctly, at least part of the burden is on Microsoft to defend their patents. I'm sure if they provided a list of the violations, the community would take care of the violations. It just seems to me that not releasing the list means either (1) there's not really any substantial violations, or (2) Microsoft just wants the spectre of patent infringement hanging over Linux as long as possible. Or maybe a little of both.
Just my uninformed two cents, though...take it with a block of salt.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
- how many patents does MS have? or how/where to find out? can they be electronically leached somehow?
- how easy are they to turn from legalease technojumbo to english?
- what kind of effort it might take to review each one?
Maybe an MS patent wiki is in order.
Start with (hopefully) an automated dump of all patents into a wiki of some sort where people can read them, and link to prior art, and/or state whether this might be in us
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
And you have the list of these patents that are contained in GNU/Linux so that we can remove said code.
Or baring that do you have the Microsoft source codes so that we can look them over and find the infrigments ourselves.
I thought not.
Are you aware of msft's history and reputaion? (Score:4, Informative)
Msft is funding the scox-scam, stold stacker technology, hires bloggers to post msft propaganda, hires shill journalists like Enderle, files dozens - if not hundreds - of bogus patents, and creates fake think-tanks. Msft is currently running a enormous fud campain against ODF - and ruined the career of Peter Quinn along the way. Msft has been caught secretly sponsoring fake TCO studies, and fake benchmarking studies.
Not to mention tax scams and racketeering.
Msft astroturfing:
http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/24514/ [lxer.com]
Fake TCO:
http://os.newsforge.com/print.pl?sid=05/06/23/202
Microsoft Tax Scam
http://multinationalmonitor.org/hyper/mm1297.08.h
Bestbuy rackteering
http://consumerist.com/consumer/lawsuits/best-buy
Parent
Is Xandros the alien that Scientologists worship? (Score:3, Funny)