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Microsoft Software Linux

Ubuntu Founder Says Microsoft Not A Big Threat 128

Golygydd Max writes "Who says that Microsoft and open source developers are enemies? It's not Ubuntu founder Mark Shuttleworth. He says that Microsoft is not the patent threat Linux and open source developers should be worried about, and that the software giant will itself be fighting against the software patents system within a few years. 'He said the most dangerous litigants are companies not themselves in the software business, small ventures or holding companies that get their principal revenue from patent licensing. He singled out former Microsoft CTO Nathan Myhrvold and his company Intellectual Ventures, which is stockpiling patents at a rate that alarms large companies such as IBM and HP, as an example of such a potentially dangerous company.'"
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Ubuntu Founder Says Microsoft Not A Big Threat

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  • by lixee ( 863589 ) on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @01:11PM (#19240281)
    Because your governemnt would prioritize the interests of corporations over those of regular blokes.
  • Re:Uh oh. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Cristofori42 ( 1001206 ) on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @01:19PM (#19240481)
    You're reading WAY too much into that.
  • Patent Copyright (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @01:24PM (#19240587)
    I still think patents should apply only to tangible inventions or objects (i.e. say a new motherboard system bus design) and copyright should apply to software.
  • by grapeape ( 137008 ) <mpope7@kc.r r . com> on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @01:27PM (#19240675) Homepage
    nothing will be done with patent reform until they represent a direct threat to those that can afford to buy lobbyists and grease palms. Once that happens rest assured there will be provisions provided to protect the interests of big business.
  • Re:Uh oh. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by dmbasso ( 1052166 ) on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @01:30PM (#19240711)
    He chose exactly the appropriate words: it is a threat, not a big one. It threatens in the sense of hindering GNU/Linux adoption, but it's far from breaking its development.
  • Re:Lobbyists (Score:5, Insightful)

    by SydShamino ( 547793 ) on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @01:41PM (#19240977)
    One onerous requirement might be for a patent holder to maintain a credible product in commercial production in order to sue others for royalties.

    Really Bad Idea. This breaks the basic premise that a non-obvious improvement to an existing design may itself be patentable, even if the existing design is patented by someone else. You may be able to patent it, sure, but you would never profit from it.

    Take the old example of the automobile. It's a good idea, and was at one point patentable. Then, someone else invests the automatic transmission. It's a non-obvious improvement to the design, and is separately patentable. But the guy who invented the automatic transmission cannot build cars, because that would violate the patent held by the car inventor. The guy could try to sell the automatic transmission alone, but he would probably go out of business unless the car inventor chose to buy those transmissions. Why would the car inventor do that? If he just waits a few years, the automatic transmission inventor will go out of business, and, using your proposal, the car inventor could exploit the patent without fear of repercussion.

    The basic premise for patents is not just to grant a monopoly in exchange for publishing your data eventually. The data is published up front in part to promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts.

    Your proposal breaks that incentive, because, until your patent expires, no one else can build on your design without forfeiting their improvements to you.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @01:45PM (#19241051)
    Mark has simply fallen for all the "Microsoft is dead" press that seems to be all over the place lately. Microsoft is far from dead, and they are a powerful foe. The latest round of posturing we have seen from them conclusively proves that they are gearing up for a huge fight, and what a fight it will be: those on the side of freedom vs those who choose to oppress the creativity of others. Mark my words, by this time next year Mark will either have had to retract his naive words or he will have been pushed out of business by the very patents that make Ubuntu such a newbie-friendly distro (patents he seems to think are harmless).
  • by morgan_greywolf ( 835522 ) * on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @01:50PM (#19241193) Homepage Journal

    There's no chance that Microsoft helped Myhrvold to start his business is there?


    That's a little bit like asking "Is there any chance that Microsoft helped Bill Gates start the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation?" The answer is mu.

    While Microsoft probably has no direct involvement in Myhrvold's company, the stock options Myhrvold collected as part of his compensation from MSFT probably at least helped pay for the startup costs for his new company, and Myhrvold has probably solicited and gotten the help of many of his colleagues at Microsoft, both in the form of advice and other indirect support and in the form of monetary investment.
  • by Znork ( 31774 ) on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @01:56PM (#19241329)
    "The existing system is clearly not flexible enough to deal with todays technology."

    More like it's not flexible enough to deal with todays rate of communications, and the development of mankinds knowledge turning into a million small, trivial, and disclosed steps.

    What makes the software sector special is the extremely low barrier of entry into the market, the massively componentized approach to development and the prevalence of use of modern communications and collaboration methods. This, however, does not mean that the same change isn't happening/can't happen in other sectors, nor that patents wont be as damaging and hinder progress as much there.

    In fact, a realistic economic analysis of the investment patterns in the protected sectors strongly suggest a suboptimal use of capital, where much more is geared towards capitalizing on the monopoly of patents than in researching to gain more patents.

    So while disqualifying software from patenting might be a useful start, restructuring the innovation incentive systems to actually reward useful research without causing the economic damage inherent in monopolies, extending across all sectors, would be much better in the long term. Because while I'd like to enjoy a future with software being continually improved, I might enjoy a future where we'd be getting five times the medical research for the same money we already spend today even more.
  • by mcrbids ( 148650 ) on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @02:08PM (#19241599) Journal
    I'm not convinced that any sort of software algorithm should be patentable, but if we are going to allow patents on some narrowly-defined "implementations," which might involve software at some point in them (but not being wholly comprised of software), I think it's pretty clear that the term of the patents needs to be substantially reduced.

    What's perhaps funny about this (very long run-on) sentence is that, at its heart, EVERYTHING IS SOFTWARE. Listen to particle physicists nowadays - they all talk about "information entropy". Heck, the big deal about Hawking radiation is that it allows for (gasp!) information leaks at the event horizon of a black hole, and thus the eventual collapse of the black hole back into "normal" space!

    The entire universe can now be narrowly (and apparently, quite accurately) defined as a massive information machine. Perhaps Douglas Adams, for all his absurd literature, was actually pretty close to the mark?

    Anyhow, if the entire universe is definable in the same terms as software is, fundamentally nothing more than bits of information, what is really the line between software and other "physical" processes?

    In reality, they are the same thing!
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @02:13PM (#19241695)
    What if patents weren't transferable? They protect the original inventor and perhaps they company they work for. If you get bought out, the patent goes in the public domain.

    That solves the original problem of "protect the little guy" while simultaneously preventing these patent-hoarding entities from causing any damage. If they want to buy a patent they have to hire the owner. That'll make patent-hoarding pretty expensive.

  • by pieterh ( 196118 ) on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @03:31PM (#19243083) Homepage
    We (the FFII) are organising a series of conferences [eupaco.org] to discuss the European patent system, and Mark Shuttleworth was our keynote speaker last week. (The conference had over thirty speakers and panelists, including Bill Kovacic, the US Federal Trade Commissioner...)

    Mark spoke for 30 minutes, and his keynote is available here [eupaco.blip.tv]. He provided this very elegant argument against patents on business methods and most software: patents are society's gift to inventors in exchange for disclosure. When an invention is self-disclosing, i.e. you understand it when you use it, society has no interest in granting a patent for it, indeed is penalised by doing so, and therefore should not grant it.

    More on the conference here [digitalmajority.org].
  • by jas_public ( 1049030 ) on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @05:14PM (#19244791) Journal

    The business plan then determines the basic term granted for that specific patent, and is limited by allowing the patentee to recoup costs and some percentage of profit above and beyond that (e.g. you spend $100K to develop the patent, and then you get to make $150K guaranteed by the granting of the patent).
    Then if my company is a patent troll, then I'll pay myself $100M in deferred compensation and company stock options, to be recovered later.
  • by itsdapead ( 734413 ) on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @05:15PM (#19244815)

    the most dangerous litigants are companies not themselves in the software business

    The difference is that certain large traditional software companies have a motive to burn some of their spare cash - or risk or having a few patents invalidated - in order to cripple the pesky open source industry. Patent trolls - sock-puppet shenanigans aside - are only in it for the direct profit.

    At worst, trolls are an equal threat to the whole software industry, not just open source. At best, the open source industry should be less attractive to them - attack an open source company with a plausible patent case and there is a risk that they'll go titsup.com before you get your damages. You certainly won't see any continuing royalties. Worse, lots of big players who would just sit back and eat peanuts while you went after a commercial competitor, have a vested interest in the same bits of FOSS and might gang up on you while every geek on the internet searches for prior art. Best stick to closed-soruce companies who have a budget for patent extortion.

    The real glass-half-full aspect is that these clowns are helping discredit the patent system, and upsetting the Mutually Assured Destruction status quo that keeps the big players on the pro-patent side.

  • The Prime Example (Score:5, Insightful)

    by brunes69 ( 86786 ) <[slashdot] [at] [keirstead.org]> on Wednesday May 23, 2007 @05:51PM (#19245243)
    So.. I was curious as to what this company "Intellectual Ventures" had patented thus far, so I did a search on a href="http://www.google.com/patents>"Google Patents.

    p>What is the #2 result? A patent on how to find and protect intellectual property [google.com] (aka patents).

    So, this company already has a patent on patenting patents. So all you slashdotters with the Step 1, Step2, .... Profit jokes owe them money.

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