Ubuntu Feisty Fawn - Desktop Linux Matured 413
Provataki writes "It seems that Linux on the desktop is getting there, with Ubuntu. Eugenia of OSNews fame wrote a glorifying preview about Ubuntu's next version, dubbed Feisty Fawn. The review talks up the new features, like the restricted drivers/codecs management, easier package management, and good laptop support. The review also lists some of the distro's flaws in the current beta. A good read for those who are curious about what's next for Linux on the desktop. The piece concludes: ' Ubuntu is a distro that obviously has paid attention to detail ... and has found a good middle ground between hard core Linux users and new users from the Windows/OSX land.'"
Not a nice middle-ground (Score:4, Insightful)
As such, no platform exists for PC software vendors to target.
If only Ubuntu weren't abandonware (Score:3, Insightful)
Or how about the USB hot plug stuff missing a bunch of digital camera IDs? Pretty well documented, but nope. Not fixed in Edgy. As a result, using a digital camera with Ubuntu requires lots of digging.
Re:What is it about Ubunto (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:no NO NO! (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps the thing you are missing is that some of us thinks that OS X is a) horrible to use b) costly c) closed? Until those three issues are resolved, I don't see OS X on any of my desktops. Ask, and I shall explain any of those 3 grievances, and why e.g. KDE+linux (and who knows, maybe Beryl some day) does not have that flaw.
/me waits for the hordes of the OS X lovers to mod me down to oblivion :)
Re:Boot up speed? (Score:5, Insightful)
Come to think of it I guess I haven't re-installed it in about six months now so it's about time to do that.
Re:Boot up speed? (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm using Ubuntu Edgy on a Laptop and a Desktop. I don't think it loads as fast as XP but again, I don't really care about how fast it boots when its only a couple of extra seconds.
For the record I would guess my boot speeds to be as so..
Desktop:
Ubuntu Edgy - 35 Seconds - To the desktop and ready to launch.
Windows XP - 25 Seconds - To show the desktop
- extra 5 seconds - To be ready to load apps
I should also note I use Ubuntu more so it could just be that its loading more stuff up to begin with compared to my windows xp partition. I tried to install Vista but it said I didn't have enough space (needs more then 10 gig).
Re:no NO NO! (Score:5, Insightful)
Linux is already more usable and easy to use and install than windows. The
problem is that windows is good enough for most people, and it have the advantage
of having a lot of applications the people already know how to use.
To make any dent in the Windows dominance it doesn't only need to be better than
Vista, it need to be significantly better.
Re:If only Ubuntu weren't abandonware (Score:2, Insightful)
See also the bug report: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gphoto2/+bug
These are pretty stupid regressions to be making, if only because they're so trivial to fix to boot. I certainly don't hold out a lot of hope for Feisty.
Re:problems with ubuntu (Score:3, Insightful)
Don't pat yourselves on the back yet. (Score:5, Insightful)
If Windows is too hard for people (and it is), what on Earth makes you think mortals will be able to do that? That's not a mature product designed for end users, despite how (otherwise) nice Ubuntu is.
I've been using it. (Score:5, Insightful)
Wireless just works. Automatically. No dicking around with swapping config files if I switch between an open AP and a WEP/WPA-locked AP.
Beryl. With the underlying AIGLX support, Beryl installed and just worked right out of the box on my laptop. SWEET!
Ubuntu has drastically reduced the hassle of just getting a Linux system into a usable, functional configuration. If they keep going, they're going to be a credible replacement for Windows, even for mega-luddites.
Re:no NO NO! (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not just being better, it's making the move more painless. Face it, even if your application is better, if there's a learning curve to do simple things, people won't switch. If your life revolves around ACT!, you'll be using the OS that supports ACT! (or more pointedly, the OS that ACT! supports).
I've said it before [brainhandles.com] and I'll say it again. Most people don't learn to operate computers and software from a conceptual and fluid point of view that allows them to adapt easily. Then learn it by rote, step-by-step in a sequence of operations. They may not understand why they perform those operations. They just know if they follow the steps they've been taught, they'll get the result they want/expect.
Some people see life as an adventure of learning, but they're a minority. Having to learn new programs (via learning new steps) scares people. It makes them unhappy. And if they've been doing a set of steps for a few years, those steps have become habitual. So you not only have to teach them the new steps, you have to break them of the old ones. Breaking habits is unhappy work.
Furthermore, if you read TFA, look at the various driver problems she had. If the hardware and software don't play nicely "out of the box", the deal is off for most people. And you can angrily tell them to buy different hardware, but Joe Shmoe is going to buy what looks neat to him. If Linux won't run on it, Windows probably will, and since he knows Windows already, it's just the path of least resistance.
Being "better" is immaterial. Either sticking with Windows has to get so painful that people exceed their tolerance level and will switch to anything that promises (and delivers) less pain, or Linux has to make it SO easy and painless to switch over, that people will do it just to save a few bucks.
- Greg
Re:Boot up speed? (Score:3, Insightful)
How carefully did you meassure the boot times? If you just meassured each case once, the difference could be for a lot of other reasons. If you want to be sure, do the following. Flip a coin to decide whether you are going to plug the power or run from battery, then boot the machine. Repeat this ten (or more) times, meassuring the boot time each time.
Good for newbies coming from Windows...ummm (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Don't pat yourselves on the back yet. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:More desktop - yay? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Don't pat yourselves on the back yet. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:no NO NO! (Score:3, Insightful)
Please define 'power' and how OS X falls short.
PS I wouldn't call OS X the 'ultimate' OS either, but you seem to be dismissing a hand-waving argument with another one about power-users.
Re:Don't pat yourselves on the back yet. (Score:4, Insightful)
Uh? One bug for one particular hardware type in a beta release and it's 'not designed for end users'?
Jeepers! I guess vista [planetamd64.com] isn't a mature product designed for end users - it's beta had bugs. I guess osx [wikipedia.org] isn't a mature product designed for end users either - it's beta had bugs.
Option #3 - the government (Score:5, Insightful)
The group that will initially drive Linux adoption (whether *buntu or other) will be governments and businesses.
The majority (99.9%+) of workers in those two categories will not be focused on the latest hardware and toys. They use wired connections, 2D graphics and save their data onto a central server. Their users do not maintain nor upgrade their boxes. They have experts who do that for them. And being Debian-based, *buntu is very easy to upgrade/maintain.
The only features missing for those categories are email / calendaring / scheduling (similar to Outlook/Exchange, GroupWise or Lotus Notes) and directory services (similar to Active Directory or eDirectory). The directory services may be here soon from Red Hat's Directory Server http://www.redhat.com/software/rha/directory [redhat.com]. But the email segment is taking a bit longer. Eventually that will be here also.
At which point, non-US governments will be heavily pushing to get off the Microsoft upgrade treadmill. Particularly since they'll be able to invest in their LOCAL developers to polish Linux for their specific needs.
As the government / business workers gain familiarity with Linux at work, they'll be more comfortable using Linux at home. But the home market will be the LAST market that Linux will crack. And it will take YEARS (literally).
If you want to bring the home market around quicker, you need to focus on bringing WINE up to speed for their applications (and the home users have a LOT of different apps, each with slightly different requirements and almost NONE of them written in an easily portable fashion). Or you can work on near identical apps for them (which addresses your point about them "learning" by rote).
When we stop hearing this about Linux... (Score:4, Insightful)
... the Average User ("AU") will start adopting it. This really should be the goal of Linux now that it is well into its teens. Time to stop being a geek-only, tinkerer OS and streamline the process. Now, admittedly, this is a beta... but I have dealt with these problems in all kinds of final Linux distros over the years. With that in mind, I am not so inspired by this review. Consider the following from the article:
Fortunately, I have not had to do this since about Slackware 8 or 9 (and that was on an old 486 Dell). Even then, it was NOT fun. You will not get a mom to edit xorg.conf. You will not get your typical manager/supervisor to edit xorg.conf. You will get them, however, to call the MCSE tech to fix a driver issue in Windows or a problem with Exchange.
The AU doesn't know hd0,0 from eth1 from lpt. Why even have these as default names if you want the AU to know what it is? It is intimidating for an AU to decipher tech names for hardware. They just want to see "Wireless" and know that is what they configure to hook up at the local coffee shop.
What is a resistance to a consistent interface and making things look at least somewhat like Windows by default in the Linux community? It always seemed to me that consistency and a default Windows look and feel would encourage AU adoption. Looking at the desktop of a Linux distro for the first time is like getting into a car with the break/accelerator pedals reversed and the radio and other interior controls located on the door. Let's get some consistency and start it up looking like Windows so the AU can find everything. Then let them move everything around!
This should be a "never" for AU adoption. Geeks want to run everything from the terminal, moms, wives and bosses do not.
Isn't this what ALL computer users want!?!
I am 35 and I write this on a T23 with Ubuntu Edgy Eft installed. Five or six years ago I would have spent hours getting Linux installed on a machine b/c I liked the challenge. Now, I have enough to do without fighting over all the stuff mentioned in this article (and hey for Edgy Eft on the T23, wireless was the only real difficult thing)! AUs of all ages are the same way with maybe the younger ones have slightly more intestinal fortitude to configure Linux under the hood.
My hope is that they clean this up in beta and Feisty installs as (more or less) easily as Edgy did for me, but this is not an article that inspires me to believe the Feisty is a transformative release for purposes of Average User adoption.
Comment removed (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:When we stop hearing this about Linux... (Score:3, Insightful)
Do you notice that all those config things, are stuff the AU doesn't even know about? My mom still uses 800x600 as resolution, certainly doesn't know what resolution is (In fact, when I increased hers she complained because stuff was small and she couldn't read) . And she never heard of 'installing drivers' Fact is the AU needs a lot of help in windows even to play DVDs (specially to play DVDs now that everything is moving to that DRM crap). In fact, the AU still has a lot of issues in windows with stuff like 'Copying files' or Decompressing files, seriously. I know this because I used to distribute tools for game editing...
But yes, it is still a beta. I for one would like to thank God for letting the ubuntu people choose blue for active colors, the orange toned edgy blows, seriously. This is perhaps the most beatiful screenshot I've seen of a default gnome distro.
Re:When we stop hearing this about Linux... (Score:3, Insightful)
Why? Vista still exists. If you want Windows, use Windows. Linux isn't Windows. It's an entirely different OS. Nobody's forcing you to use Linux, either. If you want Windows, it's still there for you. Use it and enjoy it, and allow Linux to be itself, rather than insist that it become something it isn't.
If a free (as in beer) copy of Windows is something you want, download a cracked copy of XP from the Pirate Bay. (and realise the legal consequences of doing so are entirely on your own head)
If the evil behaviour of Microsoft is something you're having a problem with, and you want Linux to become a Windows clone purely in order to be able to escape that, maybe what you need to realise is that given human nature, a company that make a product that does as much for you as Windows does are also entirely logically and naturally going to want to dominate other areas of your life as well...hence, the only way to really escape that is to voluntarily become more self-responsible...which would mean using Linux as is.
What is a resistance to a consistent interface and making things look at least somewhat like Windows by default in the Linux community?
See above. Do you want Windows? Use Windows. Stop wanting to turn Linux into Windows, because in wanting that, all you'll really accomplish is to destroy Linux.
Yeesh! Never happen with an AU... and an AU would never adopt an OS they couldn't just watch a DVD (or rip an MP3 or whatever) from first boot.
AUs don't need to use Linux. (Are you getting the message yet?) They can use Windows. Have fun with Vista.
Also...DVD and mp3 codecs are used as competitive weapons by Microsoft. (and to a lesser extent, Apple) If you've got a problem with them not having been installed with Ubuntu by default, take it up with them. That issue is not the fault of anybody associated with Linux.
This should be a "never" for AU adoption. Geeks want to run everything from the terminal, moms, wives and bosses do not.
You already know what I'm going to say in response to this by now surely, don't you?
Now, I have enough to do without fighting over all the stuff mentioned in this article (and hey for Edgy Eft on the T23, wireless was the only real difficult thing)!
Then I guess at 35...
"The Wow starts now."
Re:My experience with 6.10 (It's the preinstall!) (Score:5, Insightful)
There's no point carping that such and such is "not a *nix problem" or "is a closed-source driver problem." Only we care. Lots of people out there want it to just work. Where we should be directing our energies is getting anti-monopoly laws applied to OEMs who won't provide specs so that drivers can be written, and to companies who kill people when they pre-install anyone else's OS.
Re:Linux Mint (Score:2, Insightful)
You are right but I'd just like to add that the reason codecs aren't distributed can differ wildly. Most of the time it has to do with patent law (it might not be legal to distribute implementations of an algorithm), or the licenses of said codecs (not an issue for mp3 in linux, but maybe others) that don't allow redistribution. It has little or nothing to do with the GPL.
3d desktops are a waste of ... everything (Score:3, Insightful)
Compiz/Beryl/AIXGL all really serve no purpose other than slow your system down to a crawl, introduce instability, and waste your time. I played around with them and see no benefit other than the "Whee, look at the cube!" which is boring as hell in about 5 seconds. So, can anyone actually tell me what's the point?
Re:no NO NO! (Score:3, Insightful)
You must be new here. Bashing anything always gets modded up. It's positive comments that get buried.
Re:Boot up speed? (Score:2, Insightful)