Why You Can't Buy a Naked PC 367
ZDOne writes "A piece up on ZDNet looks at the issue of naked PCs. ZDNet UK phoned around all the major PC vendors and not one of them would sell a machine without Windows on it. IT professionals are being forced to adopt Microsoft's operating systems — even if they tell their PC supplier they want a system free of Microsoft software. On the other hand, even if it's almost impossible to buy a PC without an operating system installed, companies like Dell and HP are now committed to supporting Linux as well. 'Murray believes there is a market for Linux in the UK but is also aware of the issues facing any large supplier who wants to make Linux boxes available. "It means diverting production lines and that is a lot of money and so we have to prove the business case," he said. However, he made it clear that he is enthusiastic about the idea and wants to make it work. "We just have to show it is worthwhile," he said.'"
Here Comes the Waaahhhmbulance (Score:5, Interesting)
Put your money where your mouth is, do business with those small companies and they'll eventually become big ones if the demand is great enough. Dell once started out as a small company and selling computers with Windows worked for them.
Because It Isn't Free (Score:5, Interesting)
Interestingly enough, when you choose the no operating system option, the server suddenly costs $799 less than with Windows 2003 R2 installed.
I don't know how you do math where you are from, but where I'm from $799 isn't free.
Oh, and that's U.S. dollars, just to clarify.
Servers, but what about clients? (Score:2, Interesting)
Actually, I think the title says it... (Score:5, Interesting)
Basically, vendors don't seem willing to believe that people have the know-how to buy some hardware and then somehow make it work, which kind of makes sense. For example, I'm sure few people would buy a PC without the BIOS installed, and Dell and the like aren't going to cater their huge business to the hobbyists who would flash a PC with their own BIOS, for example.
On the other hand, why they can't make a small stipulation to sell X% of units raw to folks that are DIY'ers, is beyond me.. they could even sell it with a disclosure that they don't support ANY operating system in their contract, however their hardware has been tested with XYZ operating systems.
-6d
Re:Err, what about Dell's n series? (Score:4, Interesting)
If you want a naked PC (Score:2, Interesting)
Why should Dell, Gateway, or anyone else have to offer you this? How does there refusal to do so "force" IT professionals into Windows?
I really don't get the logic. Maybe they should, maybe if they thought it was profitable, they would There's no money in it. The site you are reading is owned by a failed linux box provider, they should know more than anyone why Dell doesnt promote or sell boxes with Linux.
But why should they have to? Why do you think you have a right to go to Dell and ask them for this?
Should EB Games have to carry Neo Geo titles? I like my Neo Geo. Lots of people do, there's a very active community behind it. Whats the difference?
Re:Why does it matter if it's free? (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, the best estimates I've seen place Dell's price for an OEM copy of Windows Vista home at about twice the price Dell is paid for installing nagware. As the computer company you are dealing with gets smaller their Windows discount gets smaller and this delta grows even larger.
Because if they could sell in volume without Windows it would be cheaper yet (drastically cheaper if they lined up Linux nagware) and because without the vendor pre-installing and testing Windows any guarantee that it is "linux capable" is subject to being an exaggeration or just plain wrong. For example, at a previous company we bought Dell towers in bulk that we destined to run Linux, OpenBSD, and NetBSD. We already owned a site license for Windows with plenty of free seats. We still had to pay for licenses for those machines even though we did not want them. Also, being Dell, despite having the same model number and being part of the same shipment, only about 1/3 of the machines actually had all parts that were the same as the test boxes we were shipped and had all the drivers we needed. Out of a few hundred machines we got 3 different video cards, several controllers, hard drives, CD-drives, etc.
You and I are going to image anything we get. The average consumer does not know what an OS is and would never attempt to install one. More importantly, the vendor having to ship with Linux and support it insures all the hardware will have drivers and you have a source for those drivers.
Re:How Can I Buy An Apple Computer W/O An OS (Score:3, Interesting)
Seriously, notice the use of the acronym "PC". It's a semantic trick to exclude non-Windows systems from the analysis. Even now that Macs are x86, they're STILL don't qualify as PCs. People will always find some way to exclude the facts to support their beliefs. One current belief, quite popular in Linux [sic] circles, is that people are forced to use Windows. Those of us who don't use Windows know this is utter rubbish, but you can't convince a Linux user that he has a choice to use Linux. It's sad in a funny sort of way.
Re:Why does it matter if it's free? (Score:5, Interesting)
>line. They just... don't put that on it.
In case you are too young to remember, Burger King actually built their market niche on that problem. The other big Hamburger restaurant had developed a model where the food was prepared in advance and special orders were a problem. Burger King came along with a whole marketing angle based on making the burgers fresh, and they promoted it with one of the catchiest jingles in all of advertising history
Sell those Windows licenses! (Score:2, Interesting)
My solution is simple: the first thing I do is to put up an online auction with no starting price or reserve price and every single time I've gotten 90% of the official OEM price or better even when there are dozens of sellers.
Then I simply remove the license sticker and mail it to the winner - 'problem' solved.
Getting $100 back from a $600 laptop gives a nice discount too.
Is reselling software forbidden in some countries or why this simple option hasn't come up yet?
Re:Why does it matter if it's free? (Score:2, Interesting)
- Nag-ware - Dell/HP are PAID to include them
- Bulk Purchasing - They buy HUGE quantities of PC parts, and thus get them way below retail cost
- Cheap Licenses - I've bought a $400 Dell PC with Windows XP, So I really doubt they weren't paying the $125 for the OEM version (or that was the price in Aug/06 in Canadian Dollars)
Take these three together and the cost of a Dell/HP pc with windows will work out about the same as building a PC from parts without an OS. This doesn't hold true at the extreme end but for the $500-1'200 mainstream range will be fairly accurate.
So if you don't want Windows but you need a pre-made box with customer support, why not just buy it - burn the recovery disks (just in case you want windows/drivers) - format it and use the distro of your choice?
And for the record... I don't imagine any Slashdotters doing this, but in a corporate environment with an agreement to only buy PC's from XXX. Or the home user who wants linux but doesn't have the knowledge to put together a PC from parts (and wants Dell over the local guy) and may need some customer support with diagnosing a hardware problem (and I bet you laughed when I said burn the recovery disk before formatting)
Re:Why does it matter if it's free? (Score:2, Interesting)
This was a dual core, with 2 GB of RAM, and Windows XP media edition.
He wanted the hard drive formatted, and then a reinstall of XP from the restoration CD. I did that, formatted the main XP partition, and proceeded with the reinstall.
Had to boot up my livecd linux to get all the drivers from Dell that were not on the restoration partitions, and a driver from Intel for the wireless. Once that was done, I could then boot into XP and finish all of the installation.
I didn't know that the restoration media would not provide all of the necessary drivers, but did find everything at Dell's website to be more than adequate.
I just switched the Intel wireless driver, the Dell one is just as good. I put all of the driver files in a place where the procedure could be done again, if necessary.
The laptop came with a 17 inch widescreen, and the 128 MB ATI card driver suggested that I use the maximum resolution, but I opted instead for 1024x768 since everything would be easier to see. The owner changed that right off, and all I could do was point out the very small text, and the reasoning for my resolution choice.
The laptop runs very well after the reinstall, and the owner is pleased overall.
However, if it were not for my livecd linux, the entire procedure would have been different, to say the least. I could, with the linux, see in all of the partitions, to see what Dell had there, and then make a list of what I needed, based on Dell's recommendations. At least I could see what I was doing.
Re:Why does it matter if it's free? (Score:2, Interesting)
If you're happy with the crapware/reformat method, you're just asking for things to stay the same, or worse, become even more closed. I for one will never welcome closed-hardware overlords, and I'm going to bitch about it and boycott wherever necessary in order to make sure my opinion is understood by the companies responsible.
Re:Why does it matter if it's free? (Score:2, Interesting)
Gnome can deal with different font sizes just fine. However, I'll be forced to buy displays with ginormous pixels until Windows gets its act together... Hopefully they got this right in Vista so decent desktop displays will finally start to drop in price!
Build Your Own. (Score:2, Interesting)
It's an opportunity (Score:3, Interesting)
At some point in every sea change, the big established market makers will make a mistake. That mistake will sometimes allow a new type of business to get a toe-hold. The more the old industries know, the more likely they are to get stuck in their ways.
We're at an interesting point in technology. Interest in non-Windows operating systems is on the rise. Vista happens. Companies want/need an alternative they can get in bulk. People like me...and a lot of you...could easily set up an entire office on Ubuntu, if we could bid the job by the unit we might even be competitive. More people would sell hardware if they could call up and get a room full of blanks and configure a custom OS installation and service local markets.
If HP, Dell or whoever isn't supplying the machines, start a company that only supplies no-OS machines. Microsoft can't whine it encourages piracy after five years of product activation. Publish your hardware specs, coordinate drivers.
Your customers will be geeks, hobbyists and companies where...people like us work. You won't have the AOL crowd trying to buy PC's from you. Give them to Dell and HP and Microsoft. Do you really want to do work for the general public? The best use I've seen for them is Soylent Green. Restore some natural selection in the gene pool.
Work out your configurations with an overseas supplier. Opportunities like this don't come along every day in technology. Take advantage. Start small, don't go into debt. Anyone know Mandrin? Email me, let's try it. WTF?
Isn't the OS essentially the Hard Drive. . ? (Score:3, Interesting)
I note on their website that you cannot order a box without a hard drive, which means you'd have to talk to a real-live human in order to get it done. Though, I suspect that whoever I talked to on the phone would have to call their manager over and then collectively scratch their heads on such a request.
--Calling over the manager and lots of head-scratching tend to be common whenever I try to do things in this world. I think this must be the case for anybody who refuses to play sheep at the game of life; there are simply no regular options available for people who are not asleep. Luckily, no matter how much control a corporate body puts into the their systems, I've so far always managed to find ways towards freedom of choice, usually at the expense of somebody's peaceful state of servitude, for which I make no apologies.
-FL
Re:Yes, clients as well (Score:3, Interesting)
"Du kannst nicht die fuenf Cent und das Brotchen haben"
(learning standard German in Bavaria, but briefly exposed to Swiss German at Silvester and understood NOTHING)
In my German boyfriend's Marco Polo guide to Zuerich: do not attempt to speak Swiss German. You will sound like you're mocking them.