When Michael Dell took back the reins of he company he founded, one of the first things he did was to launch the feedback site Dell Idea Storm. Following up on the recent Slashdot discussion of the early results of this experiment — an overwhelming expressed desire for pre-loaded Linux — Dell reports on what it plans to do with this feedback. Quoting: "[W]e are working with Novell to certify our corporate client products for Linux, including our OptiPlex desktops, Latitude notebooks and Dell Precision workstations. [On the question of which distro to choose:] "[T]here is no single customer preference for a distribution of Linux... We want users to have the opportunity to help define the market for Linux on desktop and notebook systems. In addition to working with Novell, we are also working with other distributors and evaluating the possibility of additional certifications across our product line."
Exactly! If I can purchase a laptop from a company knowing it will all just work out of the box in Linux, they will have my business almost immediately.
As long as "Linux" has the drivers for the hardware. That's all that matters.
It's my understanding that the dilema for Linux is that device manufactures are reluctant
to have their hardware designs exposed in Linux code, therefore
they usually don't give out their specs to Linux developers.
Even if OEMs were willing to offer the same non-disclosure agreements to Linux
developers as they offer to Windows developers, with the understanding that these developers distribute
binary-only drivers, you'd still have the
problem that Linus and the core kernel developers have said many times they're never going
to go out of their way to support backward compatibility of binary drivers.
Any such support would inhibit the free development of the kernel.
But apps in Linux depend not only on your kernel version but many other things:
what desktop you're using (some apps compile differently for gnome than they do for kde),
what libs you have, not only if you have gtk, but what version.
All this is great for a hacker like me. But the problem for Dell will
be in choosing from the gazillions of combinations that make GNU/Linux
what it is.
I say, good luck to them. But it's not going to be easy if your customers just
expect everything to be like it is in a Windows world.
by Anonymous Coward
on Sunday February 25 2007, @09:20PM (#18148280)
Dell is paying consumers to use Windows! The exact same Dell Latitude D520 Notebook costs $48 MORE if it comes with no operating system than if it comes with Windows. Here are the specs and links to Dell's online shop:
Processor: Intel® Core(TM) 2 Duo T5500 (1.66GHz) 2M L2 Cache, 667Mhz Dual Core LCD Panel: 14.1 inch XGA LCD Panel Memory: 512MB, DDR2-533 SDRAM Hard drive: 60GB 5400RPM Modular Bay Optical: 8X DVD Wi-Fi Wireless Card: Dell Wireless(TM) 1390 802.11g Mini Card All other options: set to "none".
So it seems that Windows has a negative price tag as far as Dell is concerned! That's hardy Linux friendly or even consumer friendly. It's downright rotten, and I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't going to end up in an anti-trust lawsuit against Dell and Microsoft.
"The laptop loaded with Windows XP [dell.com] costs $699, while the same laptop and configuration loaded with no operating system [dell.com] costs $747.
So it seems that Windows has a negative price tag as far as Dell is concerned! That's hardy Linux friendly or even consumer friendly. It's downright rotten,"
All major brand-name computers come with a ton of crapware pre-installed. Why do you think they do that? Because they get PAID to put in there. When you eliminate Windows, you also eliminate the extra revenue from pre-installed crapware.
Well, you can get RealPlayer for linux. The only downside is the linux version doesn't nag you.
I remember in the early days of WINE I tried to install Bonzi Buddy just for kicks. Locked up the machine hard.
Enough with all this 'open-source'. Give me my MSN Messenger with malware banner ads!!
The laptop loaded with Windows XP [dell.com] costs $699, while the same laptop and configuration loaded with no operating system [dell.com] costs $747.
So it seems that Windows has a negative price tag as far as Dell is concerned!
So Dell is saying that the presence of Windows degrades the value of a computer? I can't argue with that.
Congratulations, sir. You've just shown to me just how important the frame of mind is. I'm taking a lesson from this, one almost worthy of the Tao of Computing.
"So Dell is saying that the presence of Windows degrades the value of a computer? I can't argue with that."
Hehe.
Seriously though, I wonder if they mark it up because of percieved tech support problems down the road. I know Windows has its share of BS, but I cannot imagine having Linux-trained support staff ready to answer questions about.CONF files etc.
Seriously though, I wonder if they mark it up because of percieved tech support problems down the road.
The comparison wasn't with Linux installed, but nothing. If you install Linux yourself, you won;t get ANY support at all, so that's not the issue.
Even so, why should Linux tech support cost them more? It's all outsourced anyway to people who read through checklists like robots. They can just as easily tell you to reboot and reinstall your Linux system as they do your Windows.
All major brand-name computers come with a ton of crapware pre-installed.
The best performance enhancement you can achieve for a new XP-based computer is to remove all the Norton AV and related Norton stuff. Boot up and shut down time improve by a factor of at least 4. Install a decent AV program like AVG instead.
by Anonymous Coward
on Sunday February 25 2007, @10:34PM (#18148732)
Umm... that system you linked to is $669. Maybe they've changed it after you linked it to make you look foolish!
To compare apples to apples, you must change the hardware options on the no-OS laptop to match those found by default on the Windows laptop: Hard drive and Modular Bay Optical. Then you'll see that the laptop without an OS is $48 more expensive.
I hope Ubuntu is an option. First, because it's a stable and easy to install distribution and it just works. I have installed it on a number of platforms and have been very pleased. Its package management system is awesome. I don't have the broken dependency issues I use to have with Fedora/Red Hat.
Second, it has both versions available to the public for free being the Long Term Support release and the more bleeding edge. Unlike Red Hat, Ubuntu is willing to "eat its own dog food." Even on the more bleeding edge releases of Ubuntu I don't get the impression that I am running a broken beta release like I did on Fedora.
Third, if you want to utilize it within the workplace you can sell it to management that there is official support available via Canonical, although there are other means of support as well. In addition it has already gained commercial acknowledgement through vendors such as Sun, IBM, and MySQL etc.
Last, but not least because it's completely free Dell can install it on a system and not have to add the associated cost of a license. Perhaps let the user make a donation for each installation of Ubuntu?
Ubuntu makes very good sense for Dell to distribute, especially since they've licensed Click'n'Run [slashdot.org] from Linspire. Should make the average user's life easier when they want to listen to/watch their media files, besides Ubuntu being a great desktop distro.
Kudos to Dell - let's hope they're willing and able to do this right.
Just yesterday I was looking at getting a new laptop, and was dismayed because everything came with Vista. I am not an early adopter, I'm possibly a luddite compared the/. crowd. However, I've heard more good things about Ubuntu than any other Linux version, I would rather buy a laptop with Ubuntu than Vista. So, give mainstream America another two years to catch up to where I am, and your dreams of Microsoft falling may be realized.
You can order some pc's with WindowsXP if you call them or from their website. I know many laptops that come with Vista you can order WindowsXP restore disks.
You are right to avoid Vista if you run any security software or anything graphically intensive.
Just watch. They'll put Linux on one overpriced laptop, won't make it cheaper than the version with Windows and Office, and will hide the order page for it. Then they'll claim the market doesn't want Linux.
Because if they do more than that, Microsoft will cut their discount.
Dell used to have a Linux laptop. They discontinued it.
Wal-Mart used to have a Linux laptop. They discontinued it.
HP used to have a Linux laptop. They discontinued it.
Or when you say, 'Microsoft will probably support this,' do you actually mean 'Microsoft will take this opportunity to ass-rape Novell exactly the same way they did to IBM, Stacker, Lotus, WordPerfect and Novell[*]: Put them in a position where they rely on Microsoft's good graces, then cut their throats.'
Because if that's what you meant, I couldn't agree more. 8^)
[*] Novell? Yeah, Novell. This is the second time the corporation has made a formal alliance with Micros
I more than share your concern and am a Linux devout myself. However rather than whining, dont you think we should believe in free-market theory?
HP/Dell can do whatever they want, MSFT can play its tricks withing legal limits. If linux deserves it and is really needed, someone will start offering it soon.
IMHO, so far OSS have been bogged down by bad user experience. We are at juncture where its changing. Look at Ubuntu frenzy.
I wish Vista crams more DRM and they discontinue anything but $500 enterprise ultimate editoon (or whatever its called). And, Dell and HP dont offer any thing in Linux. That way one day when I am looking for new job, I can create Linux-only-Dell:-)
Bottom line -- we should stop whining and making the user experience better and better.
Keep in mind all that crapware that brings down the price of hardware with Windows pre-installed. I can't see anything like that happening with Linux in a long while... somehow worthless proprietary stuff becomes of use (by reducing the price).
Part of why the Windows desktops are cheaper is because of the insane amount of crap sponsored to be put on there. A bit like advertisements keeping certain things free (for better or worse). So of course if they go and sell a machine without those (not many crapware marketing in the *nix world), they have to make up the difference somehow, either by raising the price, either on only putting it on high profit margin desktops. Sucks, but thats how it works.
Yes, but it's all about profit margin, right? Well Linux is free. There Dell just saved $50 a pop (guess). Linux doesn't need anti-virus, so that'll save you another $20. Doesn't need anti-spyware, that's $20. It includes things like firewalls, CD-burning software, and numerous other things. There may be fewer vendors paying to get on the box, but there are also fewer things Dell has to fork out over. My guess is they could price the same and make MORE profit on the Linux box (not including labor difference
No, thats the thing. The anti-spywares, anti-viruses, etc...Dell don't pay for that. They MAKE money on it: the users don't even WANT it, if they could keep the same profit margin without putting it on, they would, as they'd sell more. For all practical purpose, putting Windows on the box actually ends up with a negative price tag , something that right now, even "free" linux can't beat.
I need volunteers for a new project called "Grapplets"
I envisage a 700MB package containing dock "Grapplets", or GNU Crapplets, for things like connecting to AOL, etc. the first priority is a special replacement for the panel on your desktop of choice (of course it will have to work equally well with Gnome, KDE, XFCE) that displays special sponsored messages about the latest benefits of some peice of proprietary software.
It will need a bitwise virus scanning daemon, that, using the highest priority and la
Do you honestly think a company like Wal-Mart, who will argue with a vendor for MONTHS about 2 extra inches of floor space being allocated to their product line, is going to spend the TIME, RESOURCES and MANPOWER to get these in and then not advertise them? I remember the advertising for the Wal-Mart Linux laptops. There was no shortage of it. But the bottom line is they didn't sell. Customers didn't want it. So, Wal-Mart being a business, they got rid of it. The same way they get rid of the potato chips that don't sell and bring in another brand that does.
Business is about business and what makes money. You can claim all the reasons you want about why it didn't sell, but at the end of the day they are no longer there because very few people bought them.
Wal-Mart could give a rats ass whether it was a Linux laptop, Windows desktop, bag of pretzels or a bottle of bleach.
http://www.emperorlinux.com/mfgr/dell/ [emperorlinux.com]
Several other good manufacturers, to boot.
Rock solid, hard drive laid out to your taste, including dual boot configurations with that lesser operating system.
My biggest quibble is they don't Gentoo, but if you're batty enough to run that (like me) you probably know what to do.;)
But I fear the coming of the Linux Crapplets. I fear what happens when AOL starts placing icons on my Gnome desktop.
And I pray that Dell does the right thing and drops the crapplets -- insist that they stop paying per machine sold and start just paying for Windows licenses sold, and use the money saved there to avoid preloading random crap other than the OS.
Using an OEM OS install in this day and age is just plain stupid. Not only do they all sell access to their image, they don't tell you who they sold it to, or under what terms. Running thier OS is like downloading software from random internet sites.
The OS and crapplets they install shouldn't matter, because the first thing you should do is wipe the drive and install your OS from the original media that came from the OS provider, not the PC OEM.
Personally, if they ship this they'll be selling me at leas
.. by listening to their customers who want quality computers that do not break down and also bundle poor support.
I did a consulting job for help desk at a gaming company and more than always it was odd dell desktops and laptops that had issues or had very bad drivers. Dell loves to modify their video hardware so vanilla nvidia and ati drivers wont work. Sometimes new laptops have drivers from 2005 that wont run many games properly and no recourse to upgrade the drivers.
Also I have never seen techs load tcp/ip stacks on systems that fail to authenticate to a domain controller. Sound odd? It happens with Dell corporate desktops. At a former college they had a guy whose sole job was to run around with a diskette that had the proprietary tcp/ip stack.dll files for failing Dell pcs. Incredible!
I certainly appreciate the idea here, and hope they're doing this for the right reasons (not some of the cynical-but-possibly-true ideas posted in this thread elsewhere). But I've never known two Linux users who preferred the same setup. Ubuntu here, Redhat there, BeOS, OpenBSD, and so on. I'm a Windows guy for the most part, but have run installations of all of these here and there over the years. I don't quite know how they're going to implement something like this and please much of anyone. With Windows or OSX, you get one default installation and you adjust it cosmetically a little bit (though at the OS level it's pretty much the same). With all the flavors of Linux, you can set it up almost any way you want.
It's great that the system cost might be lower if the Windows tax isn't applied, but is anyone who prefers Linux really going to use whatever comes installed? Most will wipe it as soon as they get it, just like you would if you ordered a Windows box/laptop. I think what would be nice (though certainly not a productive business model for Dell) would be to step up their options for OS-free machines and then put the energy otherwise spent on Linux installations on creating a repository of drivers for ALL platforms for their hardware. That way you could install whatever the hell you want but have some help with the hardware fun that all Linux users spend so much time on.
Linux users, for the overwhelmingly large part, seem to me to be roll-your-own types, and fairly advanced in their understanding of stuff like this compared to their Windows (and even OSX) counterparts. So why not work with that instead of making this "Linux alternative" option viable?
That's true, but as others have pointed out when you get right down to it, Linux is Linux is Linux because it's all about the kernel. As long as they use parts that have drivers in the kernel provide the drivers, you're golden. Same with other little utilities to modify things. They'll all run on Linux, it doesn't matter if the user is using KDE or GNOME. To a certain degree there are only 4 or so distros out there: Red-Hat based, Debian Based, Slackware Based, and Other. Dell can offer any flavor they want
I bought a Dell E521 in October. Installed Ubuntu on it (dual boot). After about five minutes, the mouse would stop working (the E521 uses a USB only mouse). You could re-plug the mouse USB connector and it would start working again - for about five minutes. Tried all sorts of things including a complete re-install. No dice. Checked the Dell and Ubuntu news groups. I was not the only person experiencing this problem and it occurred with several other distributions. Several people had contacted Dell - which provided no help (other than to say they don't support Linux). Several had returned their machines.
In January, Dell released a new firmware upgrade. The upgrade notes made no mention of the Linux problem but after I re-flashed the firmware, the problem disappeared. So, if Dell starts testing their hardware and BIOS with various Linux distros - that will be a very good thing.
Try configuring a Dell D520 with Windows [dell.com] and a Dell 520 without Windows. [dell.com] Select the same hardware options on both. (Note that the default for the non-Windows machine is a 40GB hard drive and a CD drive only, but the default for the Windows machine is a 60GB hard drive and a DVD drive. Adjust options to match.)
With Microsoft: $699.
Without Microsoft: $747.
And Dell won't even install Linux. They give you FreeDOS.
Now only if there will be enough people actualy requesting it to make then want to keep offering it.
It would be a real slap in the face for Michael Dell if after all the support for linux installed computers was shown on the ideas website, and the company taking steps to do so, and then find out there isn't really a demand for them.
Let's hope there are enough customers doing more then saying they are interested to keep this going.
It would be a real slap in the face for Michael Dell if after all the support for linux installed computers was shown on the ideas website, and the company taking steps to do so, and then find out there isn't really a demand for them.
#1. The "support" has to include ALL the hardware on the box.
#2. The boxes have to be the most popular boxes Dell sells already.
#3. The price cannot be higher than the equivalent Windows box.
We've already seen "support" which doesn't include everything in the box, which only includes boxes that most people wouldn't buy in the first place and which, for some reason, cost MORE than buying the same box with Windows.
That's just a ploy to "show" that "no one" really wants Linux on the desktop. Fuck Dell. We've heard it before. If they're really serious this time, it's up to them to demonstrate that.
What if the price differnce is spent in making sure the linux works on everything? I mean Dell forks a Distro, setd up maintainers, brands it themselves and you have the option of Dell linux or MS windows for the same price?
From a recent post by a Dell guy on the Fedora Advisory Board list [redhat.com], I get the impression that Dell isn't in a hurry to fork a distro even just for re-branding. And that's juuuust fine by me. I don't care what distro they offer, so long as the hardware can be made to work with any Linux distro.
If that means a Dell repo with some proprietary drivers, that's fine with me (for now). I wouldn't want Dell to offer ATI or nvidia hardware only for Windows configurations.
'#1. The "support" has to include ALL the hardware on the box. Why wouldn't it?'
It is not unusual to see a supposedly linux compatable system with an unsupported sound card or winmodem. Or a desktop with sata1, sata2, and ide where the sata or sata2 controllers aren't supported. I would take this a step further, it isn't enough for all the hardware to be supported, all the functionality supported for that hardware on the windows system but be supported under Linux as well.
Let's see if we can let some wind out of your sails...
Linux on the desktop will always be a pipe dream. Why? Because Linux refuses to address it's fundamental deficiencies. How many decades longer will it take to get a real installer package which works on every distro?
There is an installer that works on every (and I mean EVERY) distro. Unlike windows, Linux distros includes all the software in one location generally called a software repository. If all else fails, there is always "./configure && make && make install". It isn't that hard.
How many decades longer will it take to get the OS to auto-detect and auto-configure new hardware? How many decades longer does Linux need to spend looking at the distant taillights of Windows 95?
Hell, Windows XP doesn't even do that. If it wasn't for "idiot disks" made by manufacturers the average Joe Sixpack would be just as screwed when the malware ate his system. I have udev installed and it works just fine. I don't know what your problem is.
But on the positive side, Linux wins hands-down in the "air of undeserved superiority" department, and it also has more text editors than any other OS. When you have tens of thousands of options for text editing, it seems you really don't have to worry about getting it to work as well as Win95 did.
Well let's just look at what you get with an "out of the box" Windows XP install shall we...
You get paint, notepad, wordpad, solitare, Internet Explorer & Outlook Express, a broken media player and a calculator. That's it. I bet you can be real productive with those...Last time I looked in my distro's repository I had over 40,000 programs spanning 150 categories.
Dell's overtures toward Linux are nothing more than a bargaining chip in it's licensing fees with Microsoft. Consumers don't care about/for Linux, they just want something they know and can use. If someone drops a few hundy on a new PC then finds out they can't go to Best Buy to get software for it, that's going to be one pissed off consumer.
That may be. Only time will tell. That is one downfall to Linux is software availability in stores like Best Buy. Here you have a chicken and egg thing going on....Not enough users of Linux demanding stores carry software (mostly because it is readily available all over the Internet) and stores thinking there is no demand for it (which isn't necessarily true either). As for a customer using Windows software in Linux you are discounting the possibility of virtualization. If setup properly, by the manufacturer, then that takes away that argument.
Building from source is not an appropriate response. The problem is libraries. For packages in a repository system with specified dependencies, it will work (as I assume Gentoo does it), but if you have a repository system you could just as easily distribute binary packages as well. As all the other distributions do it. But for causal software that hasn't been blessed into one of the various repositories, building from source is not an adequate solution. It could be made to be by having some kind of stan
more editors than readers. I don't understand how that statement could possibly be interpreted to suggest that Dell's going to start shipping preinstalled Linux OSs, it says nothing of the sort. It looks to me more that they're trying placate everyone by saying they're doing everything they can, as opposed to actually responding to consumer requests. In other words, this headline is blatantly false.
Why is it bad for them to focus on a niche? It doesn't preclude them also making better looking or cheaper computers.
Moreover, if they become a solid Linux vendor, they'll be able to pick up a lot of high-margin sales pretty easily. There's plenty of professionals using Linux on some pretty pricey hardware. It doesn't take much volume to make up for the effort if it's high-end workstations you're talking about, and getting the hardware certified with major Linux distros would allow them to keep a lot of the OS-related costs that currently go to Microsoft.
It's not going to save the company, but it does have the potential to be a profitable niche.
you comment is laughable... Dell while in decline (and has been for 5+ years now) is no where near "bankruptcy". They still have billions in revenues and profits every year, they just aren't "growing" enough to encourage people to buy their stock.
Which distribution does not matter. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Which distribution does not matter. (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Which distribution does not matter. (Score:5, Informative)
It's my understanding that the dilema for Linux is that device manufactures are reluctant to have their hardware designs exposed in Linux code, therefore they usually don't give out their specs to Linux developers.
Even if OEMs were willing to offer the same non-disclosure agreements to Linux developers as they offer to Windows developers, with the understanding that these developers distribute binary-only drivers, you'd still have the problem that Linus and the core kernel developers have said many times they're never going to go out of their way to support backward compatibility of binary drivers. Any such support would inhibit the free development of the kernel.
But apps in Linux depend not only on your kernel version but many other things: what desktop you're using (some apps compile differently for gnome than they do for kde), what libs you have, not only if you have gtk, but what version.
All this is great for a hacker like me. But the problem for Dell will be in choosing from the gazillions of combinations that make GNU/Linux what it is.
I say, good luck to them. But it's not going to be easy if your customers just expect everything to be like it is in a Windows world.
Parent
Dell's laptops cost MORE w/ no OS than w/ Windows! (Score:5, Informative)
Processor: Intel® Core(TM) 2 Duo T5500 (1.66GHz) 2M L2 Cache, 667Mhz Dual Core
LCD Panel: 14.1 inch XGA LCD Panel
Memory: 512MB, DDR2-533 SDRAM
Hard drive: 60GB 5400RPM
Modular Bay Optical: 8X DVD
Wi-Fi Wireless Card: Dell Wireless(TM) 1390 802.11g Mini Card
All other options: set to "none".
The laptop loaded with Windows XP [dell.com] costs $699, while the same laptop and configuration loaded with no operating system [dell.com] costs $747.
So it seems that Windows has a negative price tag as far as Dell is concerned! That's hardy Linux friendly or even consumer friendly. It's downright rotten, and I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't going to end up in an anti-trust lawsuit against Dell and Microsoft.
Parent
Re:Dell's laptops cost MORE w/ no OS than w/ Windo (Score:5, Insightful)
So it seems that Windows has a negative price tag as far as Dell is concerned! That's hardy Linux friendly or even consumer friendly. It's downright rotten,"
All major brand-name computers come with a ton of crapware pre-installed. Why do you think they do that? Because they get PAID to put in there. When you eliminate Windows, you also eliminate the extra revenue from pre-installed crapware.
Parent
Re:Dell's laptops cost MORE w/ no OS than w/ Windo (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Dell's laptops cost MORE w/ no OS than w/ Windo (Score:5, Funny)
I remember in the early days of WINE I tried to install Bonzi Buddy just for kicks. Locked up the machine hard.
Enough with all this 'open-source'. Give me my MSN Messenger with malware banner ads!!
Parent
Re:Dell's laptops cost MORE w/ no OS than w/ Windo (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Dell's laptops cost MORE w/ no OS than w/ Windo (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Hehe.
Seriously though, I wonder if they mark it up because of percieved tech support problems down the road. I know Windows has its share of BS, but I cannot imagine having Linux-trained support staff ready to answer questions about
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The comparison wasn't with Linux installed, but nothing. If you install Linux yourself, you won;t get ANY support at all, so that's not the issue.
Even so, why should Linux tech support cost them more? It's all outsourced anyway to people who read through checklists like robots. They can just as easily tell you to reboot and reinstall your Linux system as they do your Windows.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Dell's laptops cost MORE w/ no OS than w/ Windo (Score:5, Informative)
To compare apples to apples, you must change the hardware options on the no-OS laptop to match those found by default on the Windows laptop: Hard drive and Modular Bay Optical. Then you'll see that the laptop without an OS is $48 more expensive.
Parent
Re:Dell's laptops cost MORE w/ no OS than w/ Windo (Score:5, Funny)
The DVD box for Episode I claims to have 6 hours of entertainment....
Parent
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I hope Ubuntu is an option..... (Score:5, Interesting)
Second, it has both versions available to the public for free being the Long Term Support release and the more bleeding edge. Unlike Red Hat, Ubuntu is willing to "eat its own dog food." Even on the more bleeding edge releases of Ubuntu I don't get the impression that I am running a broken beta release like I did on Fedora.
Third, if you want to utilize it within the workplace you can sell it to management that there is official support available via Canonical, although there are other means of support as well. In addition it has already gained commercial acknowledgement through vendors such as Sun, IBM, and MySQL etc.
Last, but not least because it's completely free Dell can install it on a system and not have to add the associated cost of a license. Perhaps let the user make a donation for each installation of Ubuntu?
Re:I hope Ubuntu is an option..... (Score:5, Informative)
Kudos to Dell - let's hope they're willing and able to do this right.
Soko
Parent
Re:I hope Ubuntu is an option..... (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Re: (Score:3)
You are right to avoid Vista if you run any security software or anything graphically intensive.
Re:I hope Ubuntu is an option..... (Score:4, Informative)
Beside, Canonical is providing support for Ubuntu.
Parent
Yeah, right. (Score:5, Interesting)
Just watch. They'll put Linux on one overpriced laptop, won't make it cheaper than the version with Windows and Office, and will hide the order page for it. Then they'll claim the market doesn't want Linux.
Because if they do more than that, Microsoft will cut their discount.
Dell used to have a Linux laptop. They discontinued it.
Wal-Mart used to have a Linux laptop. They discontinued it.
HP used to have a Linux laptop. They discontinued it.
Re: (Score:3)
Novell and MicroSoft, ring a bell?
Microsoft will probably support this.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Um, they're talking to Novell.
Novell and MicroSoft, ring a bell?
Microsoft will probably support this.
Have your forgotten your history?
Or when you say, 'Microsoft will probably support this,' do you actually mean 'Microsoft will take this opportunity to ass-rape Novell exactly the same way they did to IBM, Stacker, Lotus, WordPerfect and Novell[*]: Put them in a position where they rely on Microsoft's good graces, then cut their throats.'
Because if that's what you meant, I couldn't agree more. 8^)
[*] Novell? Yeah, Novell. This is the second time the corporation has made a formal alliance with Micros
Re:Yeah, right. (Score:5, Interesting)
HP/Dell can do whatever they want, MSFT can play its tricks withing legal limits. If linux deserves it and is really needed, someone will start offering it soon.
IMHO, so far OSS have been bogged down by bad user experience. We are at juncture where its changing. Look at Ubuntu frenzy.
I wish Vista crams more DRM and they discontinue anything but $500 enterprise ultimate editoon (or whatever its called). And, Dell and HP dont offer any thing in Linux. That way one day when I am looking for new job, I can create Linux-only-Dell
Bottom line -- we should stop whining and making the user experience better and better.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Yeah, right. (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Yeah, right. (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Volunteers Needed (Score:3, Funny)
I need volunteers for a new project called "Grapplets"
I envisage a 700MB package containing dock "Grapplets", or GNU Crapplets, for things like connecting to AOL, etc. the first priority is a special replacement for the panel on your desktop of choice (of course it will have to work equally well with Gnome, KDE, XFCE) that displays special sponsored messages about the latest benefits of some peice of proprietary software.
It will need a bitwise virus scanning daemon, that, using the highest priority and la
Re:Somebody set up us the lack of demand (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I have come to the conclusion that Dell cannot stop lying about the whole thing, so put up this idea an an alternative :
http://www.dellideastorm.com/article/show/63774/I
Got my Linux on Dell years ago (Score:5, Informative)
Several other good manufacturers, to boot.
Rock solid, hard drive laid out to your taste, including dual boot configurations with that lesser operating system.
My biggest quibble is they don't Gentoo, but if you're batty enough to run that (like me) you probably know what to do.
Crapplets (Score:3, Interesting)
But I fear the coming of the Linux Crapplets. I fear what happens when AOL starts placing icons on my Gnome desktop.
And I pray that Dell does the right thing and drops the crapplets -- insist that they stop paying per machine sold and start just paying for Windows licenses sold, and use the money saved there to avoid preloading random crap other than the OS.
Crapplets? (Score:3, Insightful)
The OS and crapplets they install shouldn't matter, because the first thing you should do is wipe the drive and install your OS from the original media that came from the OS provider, not the PC OEM.
Personally, if they ship this they'll be selling me at leas
They can start .. (Score:3, Interesting)
I did a consulting job for help desk at a gaming company and more than always it was odd dell desktops and laptops that had issues or had very bad drivers. Dell loves to modify their video hardware so vanilla nvidia and ati drivers wont work. Sometimes new laptops have drivers from 2005 that wont run many games properly and no recourse to upgrade the drivers.
Also I have never seen techs load tcp/ip stacks on systems that fail to authenticate to a domain controller. Sound odd? It happens with Dell corporate desktops. At a former college they had a guy whose sole job was to run around with a diskette that had the proprietary tcp/ip stack
users can "help define the market" (Score:3, Interesting)
Gee. Thanks, Dell! We users wouldn't be able to define the market on our own without your permission.
Vanilla "Linux"? (Score:3, Interesting)
It's great that the system cost might be lower if the Windows tax isn't applied, but is anyone who prefers Linux really going to use whatever comes installed? Most will wipe it as soon as they get it, just like you would if you ordered a Windows box/laptop. I think what would be nice (though certainly not a productive business model for Dell) would be to step up their options for OS-free machines and then put the energy otherwise spent on Linux installations on creating a repository of drivers for ALL platforms for their hardware. That way you could install whatever the hell you want but have some help with the hardware fun that all Linux users spend so much time on.
Linux users, for the overwhelmingly large part, seem to me to be roll-your-own types, and fairly advanced in their understanding of stuff like this compared to their Windows (and even OSX) counterparts. So why not work with that instead of making this "Linux alternative" option viable?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
That's true, but as others have pointed out when you get right down to it, Linux is Linux is Linux because it's all about the kernel. As long as they use parts that have drivers in the kernel provide the drivers, you're golden. Same with other little utilities to modify things. They'll all run on Linux, it doesn't matter if the user is using KDE or GNOME. To a certain degree there are only 4 or so distros out there: Red-Hat based, Debian Based, Slackware Based, and Other. Dell can offer any flavor they want
Dell BIOS (Score:5, Interesting)
In January, Dell released a new firmware upgrade. The upgrade notes made no mention of the Linux problem but after I re-flashed the firmware, the problem disappeared. So, if Dell starts testing their hardware and BIOS with various Linux distros - that will be a very good thing.
Dell: Delete Windows, pay $48 more. (Score:3, Informative)
Try configuring a Dell D520 with Windows [dell.com] and a Dell 520 without Windows. [dell.com] Select the same hardware options on both. (Note that the default for the non-Windows machine is a 40GB hard drive and a CD drive only, but the default for the Windows machine is a 60GB hard drive and a DVD drive. Adjust options to match.)
With Microsoft: $699. Without Microsoft: $747.
And Dell won't even install Linux. They give you FreeDOS.
Re:For real? (Score:5, Insightful)
It would be a real slap in the face for Michael Dell if after all the support for linux installed computers was shown on the ideas website, and the company taking steps to do so, and then find out there isn't really a demand for them.
Let's hope there are enough customers doing more then saying they are interested to keep this going.
Parent
We've been down this path before. (Score:5, Insightful)
#1. The "support" has to include ALL the hardware on the box.
#2. The boxes have to be the most popular boxes Dell sells already.
#3. The price cannot be higher than the equivalent Windows box.
We've already seen "support" which doesn't include everything in the box, which only includes boxes that most people wouldn't buy in the first place and which, for some reason, cost MORE than buying the same box with Windows.
That's just a ploy to "show" that "no one" really wants Linux on the desktop. Fuck Dell. We've heard it before. If they're really serious this time, it's up to them to demonstrate that.
Parent
Re:We've been down this path before. (Score:4, Informative)
From a recent post by a Dell guy on the Fedora Advisory Board list [redhat.com], I get the impression that Dell isn't in a hurry to fork a distro even just for re-branding. And that's juuuust fine by me. I don't care what distro they offer, so long as the hardware can be made to work with any Linux distro.
If that means a Dell repo with some proprietary drivers, that's fine with me (for now). I wouldn't want Dell to offer ATI or nvidia hardware only for Windows configurations.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Why wouldn't it?'
It is not unusual to see a supposedly linux compatable system with an unsupported sound card or winmodem. Or a desktop with sata1, sata2, and ide where the sata or sata2 controllers aren't supported. I would take this a step further, it isn't enough for all the hardware to be supported, all the functionality supported for that hardware on the windows system but be supported under Linux as well.
'The problem is that many (but certi
Re:The "Not Ready for Prime Time" OS (Score:4, Insightful)
There is an installer that works on every (and I mean EVERY) distro. Unlike windows, Linux distros includes all the software in one location generally called a software repository. If all else fails, there is always "./configure && make && make install". It isn't that hard.
Hell, Windows XP doesn't even do that. If it wasn't for "idiot disks" made by manufacturers the average Joe Sixpack would be just as screwed when the malware ate his system. I have udev installed and it works just fine. I don't know what your problem is.
Well let's just look at what you get with an "out of the box" Windows XP install shall we...
You get paint, notepad, wordpad, solitare, Internet Explorer & Outlook Express, a broken media player and a calculator. That's it. I bet you can be real productive with those...Last time I looked in my distro's repository I had over 40,000 programs spanning 150 categories.
That may be. Only time will tell. That is one downfall to Linux is software availability in stores like Best Buy. Here you have a chicken and egg thing going on....Not enough users of Linux demanding stores carry software (mostly because it is readily available all over the Internet) and stores thinking there is no demand for it (which isn't necessarily true either). As for a customer using Windows software in Linux you are discounting the possibility of virtualization. If setup properly, by the manufacturer, then that takes away that argument.
B.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
But for causal software that hasn't been blessed into one of the various repositories, building from source is not an adequate solution. It could be made to be by having some kind of stan
Re:idiot slashdot readers (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Re:FCC (Score:5, Informative)
Moreover, if they become a solid Linux vendor, they'll be able to pick up a lot of high-margin sales pretty easily. There's plenty of professionals using Linux on some pretty pricey hardware. It doesn't take much volume to make up for the effort if it's high-end workstations you're talking about, and getting the hardware certified with major Linux distros would allow them to keep a lot of the OS-related costs that currently go to Microsoft.
It's not going to save the company, but it does have the potential to be a profitable niche.
Parent
Funny you should bring up politics... (Score:3, Interesting)
Why would I want my pro-Linux dollars shooting me in the foot?
Re: (Score:3)