How One Small Business Switched to Ubuntu 467
firenurse writes to point out a story in The Inquirer about how one small business switched to Ubuntu. It describes a maddening comedy of errors, a series of circular screw-ups among Microsoft, HP, and a RAID vendor. From the article: "You never quite wrap your head around how anti-consumer Microsoft's policies are until they bite you in the bum. Add in the customer antagonistic policies of its patsies, HP in this case, and vendors like Promise, and you have quite a recipe for pain. Guess what I did today?"
Self-serve versus pay-to-play (Score:3, Insightful)
Windows XP as a server? (Score:5, Insightful)
There's a way to make it all work (Score:3, Insightful)
He was asking for it (Score:3, Insightful)
Actually the guy in the article didn't know what he was doing and tries to blame Microsoft and HP for the mess that his lack of knowledge created.
If he had done this for even once in the past, he would have known what would happen. Very nice of him to practice with his clients' systems.
Re:Comedy of Ubuntu errors (Score:5, Insightful)
I smell several errors. (Score:0, Insightful)
*Microsoft has a policy where the vendors can't ship you a Windows CD so instead they have to send you a series of restore CDs.
-Never heard of this happening. I think he means HP restore CDs
*The #*(&$ers at HP made it so the brain dead restore scripts would not see any hardware other than the parts they shipped, and it would not recognise the Promise controller.
-That's a driver issue. No drivers, no access to weird/different hardware.
*If you have a copy of XP to use, guess what? The key that comes with the HP box is restricted to the version of Windows on the restore CD.
- Yes, that's called a OEM key. They also have VLKs and Retail keys. Don't pirate.
*That is when I learned half of the problems with Promise, the CD it provides is not bootable and contains nothing resembling a tool.
-Nothing to do with FOSS/MS. I don't think he does this once a week. If so, this is new hardware and it's new to him. Not MS's problem.
So this tech can't get Windows to work, installs Ubuntu, and tells the customer "Tada".
Excuse me!!! We have unneeded licenses, an incompetent tech and hours of wasted install time due to the previous mentioned items.
Fire this guy. Decide if Ubuntu works, if so, great, get your money back from the licenses, and if not then get a competent tech in there.
Re:Comedy of Ubuntu errors (Score:5, Insightful)
However what's interesting is the *differences* between your problems with Ubuntu and what TFA describes as problems with proprietary vendors. With the proprietary vendors, they basically said 'either you use our configuration or screw off'... The hardware, software, and so forth were all designed to work one single way, and if you want to deviate from that, you're on your own.
Your experience with Ubuntu was just the opposite: dozens of people (apparently) gave you lots of different suggestions for what might be wrong and how to fix it. It looks like in your case it didn't work out in the end, but it is certainly interesting how much free support you received for a product you didn't pay for.
You have to be kidding.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Secondly, don't use Windows XP to be a server. It really isn't much more and sometimes cheaper to get a system pre-installed with SBS 2003 R2 and you get Exchange and other features built in not to mention a true comparison against Linux resource/functionality wise.
Terribly inaccurate and to say the least a very inept technician and company at work here.
My biggest selling "managed service" for small/medium sized businesses isn't my linux solution but my sbs 2003 r2 solution because for most people it not only saves money but provides tons of features from easy to configure remote access to sharing in sharepoint to cenralized ad administration/logins/access restrictions to built in exchange and with the advanced version sql server access.
I would never sell someone a desktop as a server solution simply because your selling yourself short. If cost savings was an issue buy a refurb server system and put whatever linux you want on it.
The situation sucks, but is Linux the answer? (Score:5, Insightful)
However, I have to question the judgement of the author. First of all, what kind of consultant deploys branch offices "weekly" and didn't know about these problems in advance? Anyone with much experience would know about (a) how difficult it is to move windows from one storage subsystem to another, (b) that HP uses bad recovery disks, and (c) that RAID installs require a floppy.
In addition, I question the use of Linux in this situation... perhaps it was his only way out of a bad recommendation to a client, but the problem is that there are *very* few Linux-savv consultants servicing businesses this size. For this reason alone I don't deploy Linux solutions... I can't find subcontractors who can back me up when I'm on vacation or sick, and should I stop working with a client, I don't want to leave them high and dry. Most consultants I know replace Linux servers with windows because they simply can't support it.
Finally, there's a much better way to do what he's trying to do: a NAS appliance. If all you need is some shared storage, printer sharing and the occasional backup, one of the many small business NAS devices out there (Infrant [infrant.com], Snap / Adaptec [snapappliance.com], Buffalo [buffalotech.com], etc...) will do so with greater reliability and less complexity than a PC-based server.
-R
Re:I smell several errors. (Score:3, Insightful)
How is it piracy to use a copy of the same version of the same OS on the same machine from a different CD? I understand that this is an antipiracy measure on Microsoft's part, but it got in the way of legitimate use here, as it not infrequently does.
Well Duh! (Score:3, Insightful)
I have been a consultant (my own business) working exclsuively with small bussiness for quite some time & before I ever started doign that I'd have told him he was a frickin' moron. HP doesn't support other hardware on their _restore_ CD's, well friggin' DUH! Hey moron how can you not know this if you 'a client needed to set up a small branch office, something I do almost every week'. If you had you'd know this already and wouldn't have screwed with the HP disks at all & would know you need a real OS disk.
After that you blame Promise's CD... Yet lots of vendors do that... Hell lots of motherboard vendors do that! It's why I have a LS120 drive I use that is never installed in systems, but lets me get stuff loaded at that fun part of the install where I have to have a 'floppy type device' to load anything...
Really two things come to mind that sum up the solution to his whole problem: Either convince HP to customize a machine to your needs (and keep their support which you btw killed when modifying their box anyways and is the only real reason to buy from a OEM vendor anyways) or Build the darn box yourself so you can customize it as you want with a real OS CD! Problem solved.
It may be nice Linux 'solved' your problem, but your problem was caused by you for not already knowing what you were walking into.
Actually I bet he has many years of experience (Score:1, Insightful)
However, now because of the way that Microsoft makes its products, it is harder to do what he needs it to do. But this is what Microsoft does. Makes it easier for the masses that don't know anything, harder for the few that do. Windows restore disk, VB, Word, Managed C++. This is what Microsoft does.
If your users want to use Windows, then spend the extra money and do it right. Linux can be made to be easy for users, but Windows will always be a program that Microsoft will try to make money with. Therefore its use will always be geared for that.
Another example of excellent reporting... (Score:3, Insightful)
All the blame here lies on one company, HP. They didn't ship them a Windows CD which would have fixed it right up. But any good computer tech would have had a Windows XP Pro OEM CD that they could have used to install the OS (Microsoft sends an entire album of current OEM CDs to partners). Sure you would have to call up to activate the OS, but it would have gotten him up and running.
Re:Comedy of Ubuntu errors (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:You have to be kidding.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:You have to be kidding.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Typical lame duck Microsoft 'Gold Partner' response I've heard a thousand times over. I really don't know how the fuck them guys stay in business.
It really depends on what he's using it for, doesn't it? If it's just to use as a simple file and print server, or as a machine on the network to host a third party application that many small businesses tend to use, then why in hell's name is he going to fork out more money for SBS with a ton of things he'll never use and some things he'll never be able to use properly (Terminal Services springs to mind) and where he can't get more than one on the same network? Yes, you guessed it, that's an artificial Microsoft restriction in SBS *slaps forhead*.
Re:He was asking for it (Score:5, Insightful)
This is one of the things I always find so funny.
Which is it everyone? Is windows easy enough for anyone to set up and administer, or does it take a windows expert to do these things properly?
If it takes an expert to do it right, why does everyone seem to insist that it has to be done by Grandma when it comes to Linux?
all the best,
drew
Proprietors don't share user's philosophy. (Score:4, Insightful)
Anyone who confuses "support" with proprietary software is not working in their client's best interests. Proprietors drop software maintenance to get users on the upgrade treadmill. Proprietors ostensibly act motivated by profit, but users can find computers that do their job well after the hardware is no longer profitable. Consultants ought to promote the use of free software drivers and firmware (or, preferably, no firmware needed at all) so that their clients can leverage the talents of a free market of developers to improve and maintain the software needed to make all hardware work with any system. Separating users from their freedom is not fiscally sound for users.
Comedy of OS installers (Score:5, Insightful)
More recently I had to install Windows XP Pro from an SP1 disk. It took me two days to set up Windows XP Pro with administrator and user accounts and get all my apps updated and working properly (or close enough with some apps running escalated privileges) in user mode.
My conclusion: Both Slackware and Windows are very difficult systems to build from scratch. If people had to install Windows themselves they would be as smart as Linux geeks.
Re:Comedy of Ubuntu errors (Score:2, Insightful)
Up to a point ... (Score:3, Insightful)
Yep. Right up to the point where the "small businessman" has to face the realities of dealing with Microsoft's current licensing policy.
The problems described in the original article are, mostly, caused by Microsoft's attempts to artificially segment a market so that Microsoft can extract the most revenue from those segments.
Which is why the Ubuntu installation went so easily. It wasn't designed to segment the market. It doesn't matter who is installing it or on what hardware (as long as it's recognized) or what version and there is no unlocking code.
So, yes, being blunt about Microsoft's practices does make you sound like "an adolescent nincompoop" to anyone who is not aware of the facts. To anyone who does understand (and has experienced them first hand), it is nothing more than bluntness.
Re:Windows XP as a server? (Score:4, Insightful)
'Cause he didn't need a server?
This was an office with 4 workstations. They needed a place to dump files for access - not a server. He's gonna automate their backup to DVD (although I don't know why he needed the size disks he was using for 4 PCs - maybe he intends to keep a LOT of backups? Maybe it's video stuff?)
What branch office with 4 PCs is gonna pay God knows what for a Microsoft server license?
They'd be idiots. Even SBS is overkill.
Re: Joke's on him (Score:1, Insightful)
Do you have any idea what you are talking about? What makes a computer a "desktop" machine, what makes it a "server"? What is wrong with "3rd party RAID"? Is there some solution he is "supposed" to buy?
Really, you should be modded as a troll, you are just a waste of time and either are deliberately acting stupid to get some sort of weird jollies, or you read much and do little and feel you are an expert for all of that. FOAD.
Re:Comedy of Ubuntu errors (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Comedy of Ubuntu errors (Score:5, Insightful)
Does your incredibly snide and degrading tone get you far in life? Because it doesn't work on the internet. Maybe you think you're being witty or something but you just come across as an angry jerk.
in a decade of using linux I've never come across a more helpful and patient community than Ubuntu. If you ask questions politely and provide the information that's requested, instead of acting like you are smarter than everyone else and you don't think their question is relevant, you might find you get a little bit more useful information. Just a tip.
Re:Joke's on him (Score:1, Insightful)
That's today. This user obviously won't upgrade to Vista, so there's a sale lost tomorrow. Long term, Microsoft are losing money. I have plenty of clients who are in the same boat, and either have already or are seriously considering moving their backends to GNU/Linux/SAMBA/LDAP and kissing Microsoft (and ludicrous licensing fees) goodbye forever.
Re:Joke's on him (Score:3, Insightful)
Just to clarify... (Score:2, Insightful)
Customer asked for:
A new branch office (presumably they have others) with a handful of Windows workstations and a Windows file server
Contract IT guy gave them:
Some Windows workstations and a Linux file server because he couldn't get Windows working
Customer's head office presumably said:
"You're fired. We'll get someone who *can* give us what we asked for. If we want to use Linux will ask for it."
Re:Ubuntu Fan (Score:3, Insightful)
Sound is always an issue, not so much because of Linux, but because if you're not expert in Linux, you can't tell WHICH of the three or four sound servers Linux provides is running as the default, and WHICH of them is being used by the media program you're running. Look at the system setup or the dmesg boot report and the config screens for Xine or whatever media program you're running. Usually, adjusting the programs to use the right sound server solves the problem.
It's dumb, I know - why they don't marry ALL the apps with the system services they're running on install is beyond me.
The NIC should be easier. It's just not always detected correctly. Find out what the NIC is from your motherboard manual (if it's onboard as most are these days), do a Google to see what kernel module is needed for it (which is probably quicker than plowing through whatever HOWTO the distro included), and then enable that module.
Re:As much as I would like to blame MS... (Score:3, Insightful)
AGAIN.
How do we know HE bought the hardware. If the client bought it, he's stuck with it.
Small business clients do this all the time.
In fact, since he referred to the "anemic 40GB drive", we can ASSUME he did NOT buy the hardware. He would have ordered the hardware with what he WANTED if he bought it.
That throws out almost all of the criticism of this guy (other than not being ready with Promise drivers of his own when he reported to the site.)
Typical noobie error (Score:2, Insightful)
I question what the heck this guy is doing and thinking. If he has the ability to set up an Ubuntu box, heck if he even knows how to set up a basic RAID 1 array, I'm baffled as to why he doesn't know the answer to his own question. Anyone who reads this article who themselves is tech saavy knows this guy is a bit of a dolt. How on earth he got his story published on anything other than his blog is beyond me.
And in response to a lot of peoples' jargon about an XP Pro box not being able to make a good server - why not?? I've worked as an independent contractor for small business IT needs for half a dozen years, and there's no reason why a simple XP pro box can't make a decent, cost effective server. Albiet, it all boils down to the clients' needs, but for a typical small business (and by small business I mean less than 30 employees), like the one mentioned here, all they typically need is something decent that will host files where their files are reasonable safe. An XP pro box set up properly can make for an appropriate server. RAID 1, backup scripts (or 3rd party programs), a UPS, a couple network shares is what half of the world runs on. Remember, 80% of business in North America is small business (sub 30 people).
All of this doesn't change the fact that quite clearly this guy doesn't know what he's doing. 2 minutes on google would have answered his question.
Re:Comedy of Ubuntu errors (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:He was asking for it (Score:5, Insightful)
I understand that this phantom 'grandma' is a stereotypical inexperienced user, but its a new year, so lets pick someone else to be the idiot. Like blondes or Republicans. Thanks.
Re:Comedy of Ubuntu errors (Score:3, Insightful)
I've added you as a foe. I consider someone who behaves that way is unlikely to have anything to say that I would like to read.