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Three Takers Named for Microsoft's Linux Support 149

Posted by Zonk
from the step-right-up dept.
narramissic writes "According to an article on ITworld, Credit Suisse, Deutsche Bank AG, and AIG Technologies have signed on for Microsoft's technical support for Novell Inc.'s Suse Enterprise Linux. This follows last month's announcement of a deal between Novell and Microsoft that Steve Ballmer described as an effort to 'bridge the divide between open-source and proprietary-source software.' None of the companies cited the price of the support certificates, nor would they say how many they were activating. Even more interesting, Credit Suisse is a brand new cusomter for Novell."
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Three Takers Named for Microsoft's Linux Support

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  • itsatrap (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Where is the "itsatrap" tag?!?
    • embracextendextinguish seems more appropriate. Weird feelings aside, it's clear Microsoft wants to associate itself with the idea of linux and Open source stacks. Otherwise they would have done the sensible thing: having Novell customers contact specialized Novell support.

      This is like having a Mercedes and have it serviced by BMW.
      • Re:itsatrap (Score:5, Funny)

        by Intron (870560) on Thursday December 21, 2006 @06:03PM (#17330596)
        This is like having a Mercedes and have it serviced by Kia.
        • Thank you, pal. Now that I fully realize the imperfection of my metaphor, I humbly rephrase it as: "This is like owning a Mercedes and have it serviced by a car rentals company who lends vehicles featuring the chassis of an armoured BMW and the engine of a kia 1.1 and assists its stranded motorists for hefty additional fees".
        • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

          by npsimons (32752) *

          This is like having a Mercedes and have it serviced by Kia.

          Naw, I like Neal Stephenson's analogy [cryptonomicon.com], because then it would be like having an M1 tank, made of space-age materials and jammed with sophisticated technology from one end to the other, that's been modified in such a way that it never, ever breaks down, is light and maneuverable enough to use on ordinary streets, and uses no more fuel than a subcompact car, and taking it to a station wagon car company to have it serviced.

        • Finally, (Score:4, Funny)

          by asifyoucare (302582) on Thursday December 21, 2006 @08:25PM (#17332066)
          ... a good car analogy on Slashdot.

          Actually, make that a perfect car analogy.

        • More like having a racing car and getting it serviced by Dick Dastardly [hotink.com].
        • by webbod (1032868)
          Woah! - I'd always thought Linux was cheap - but if you're saying that it requires the Mercedes of support contracts then I better go jack up our support budget.
      • Those are at least both german and both cars.
        A bit more like having your BMW seviced by Yamaha
    • by IflyRC (956454)
      Right next to the "Sky is falling" tag.
  • And so it begins. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by GodInHell (258915) * on Thursday December 21, 2006 @05:40PM (#17330206) Homepage
    Ballmer: "Buy my service or you're open to liability."

    Customer: "Please don't hurt me."

    Ballmer: "These are some lovely client server apps you have here, it would be a shame if something were to.. happen to them..."

    Customer: "Okay.. okay, I'll pay.... I'll pay" [quiet weeping].

    -GiH

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by n6kuy (172098)

      Ballmer: "Can you squeal like a pig?"
    • by h4rm0ny (722443) on Thursday December 21, 2006 @06:06PM (#17330632) Journal

      So when is /. going to replace the SuSE icon with a stylised thirty pieces of silver?
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by peragrin (659227)
      Deutsche Bank AG I believe is one of the people who said SCO's stock price would go to $45 a share.

      there would of been no arm twisting there.
    • by jdbartlett (941012)
      As far as "bridging the divide between open-source and proprietary-source software" is concerned, Ballmer doesn't seem to grasp that the basic concept of open vs. closed. His so-called "divide" isn't something that can just be patched up like so many Microsoft products. The only way to "bridge" the difference between open and closed is with a hinge.

      So which way does Ballmer expect to bridge this door?
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by kjart (941720)

      Ballmer: "Buy my service or you're open to liability."

      I thought the whole point of the deal was that people need to buy SUSE or else they're open to liability.

      Seriously though, spiritual violations of the GPL aside, if I was an IT department using both Linux and Microsoft products it would seem to make sense to use SUSE since Microsoft and Novell work together.

      • by GodInHell (258915) *
        Yehp.. which is why it's so dangerous - spiritual violations of the GPL threaten it's long-term health.. this is something that benefits MS strongly.

        -GiH
  • by n6kuy (172098) on Thursday December 21, 2006 @05:43PM (#17330242)
    It's a cookbook!
  • by Anonymous Coward
    It's not Microsoft's fault if these companies choose to pay for support they don't actually need.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Ender Ryan (79406)
      Blind bashing? In this case, I don't think so.

      To use another bogeyman to illustrate it... this is like Sony "offering" to "service" Xbox 360s, or something.

      I've already seen some other analogies put forth, and I find this is one case where they are friggin' hilarious, and appropriate :)

      • by kjart (941720)

        To use another bogeyman to illustrate it... this is like Sony "offering" to "service" Xbox 360s, or something.

        It's more like Sony offering gift certificates to get free support on your Xbox 360 from Microsoft support. FTFA Microsoft agreed to distribute "subscription certificates," each one entitling customers to technical support from Novell for a server running Suse Enterprise Linux - Microsoft isn't actually doing the SUSE support here (I'm pretty sure they wouldn't know how).

    • by Teckla (630646) on Thursday December 21, 2006 @06:36PM (#17330996)

      It's not Microsoft's fault if these companies choose to pay for support they don't actually need.

      What?! Microsoft's CEO basically threatens companies that use Linux, and Microsoft isn't at fault?!

      And I suppose if Guido says, "Bad things might happen to your family, Mr. Anonymous Coward, unless you pay me some 'protection' money...", then it isn't Guido's fault if you pay him for protection you don't actually need???

      And you got modded Insightful! Unbelievable!

      I, for one, am getting pretty tired of people whining that Microsoft gets unfairly bashed here on Slashdot too often. I regularly read plenty of responses that defend Microsoft that get modded +5 Insightful.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by nadamsieee (708934)
        I, for one, am getting pretty tired of people whining that Microsoft gets unfairly bashed here on Slashdot too often. I regularly read plenty of responses that defend Microsoft that get modded +5 Insightful.
        Its called astroturfing [wikipedia.org]. The truth hurts, but that doesn't mean that the MS fanboys and the MS marketing department are going to take it laying down...
        • by h4rm0ny (722443)

          Well that's a good thing because if someone is set upon by biased propoganda out in the wild, then they may not be ready for it. But here you get to see the fresh propoganda put out all ready to be devoured by those who can see its weaknesses. The net effect is that the astroturfers set up a series of strawmen against themselves! And if there's the odd occasion when it isn't a strawman, then it's right that it shouldn't get knocked down. But on the whole, astroturfers act like a vaccine against FUD.
      • by cab15625 (710956)
        One of the nice things about being a sociopath (or a sociopathic corporation) is that you don't have to care when your accusers are right and you can get away with whining about other people picking on you. I suppose technically, that's two nice things.
      • by kjart (941720)

        What?! Microsoft's CEO basically threatens companies that use Linux, and Microsoft isn't at fault?!

        And I suppose if Guido says, "Bad things might happen to your family, Mr. Anonymous Coward, unless you pay me some 'protection' money...", then it isn't Guido's fault if you pay him for protection you don't actually need???

        At fault for what? Making very generalized threats towards people running versions of Linux other than SUSE? This protection money you're talking about is for support contracts from Nove

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        I, for one, am getting pretty tired of people whining that Microsoft gets unfairly bashed here on Slashdot too often. I regularly read plenty of responses that defend Microsoft that get modded +5 Insightful.

        It's incredible, it's almost as if some people have a different viewpoint to your own! How could that be?

        What?! Microsoft's CEO basically threatens companies that use Linux, and Microsoft isn't at fault?! And I suppose if Guido says, "Bad things might happen to your family, Mr. Anonymous Coward, unle

      • I speak as a person who gets mod points occassionally. Who else uses anonymous moderators picked out via usage profile that doesn't run a copy of the slashdot blogging software? Nobody.

        I strongly suspect that it discriminates in favor of astroturfers. Who else can afford to spend entire working days hanging out here posting and getting enough usage credits to trigger mod points on a more or less regular basis?

        The main reason I still hang out here despite my belief that the stories that get rejected fo

    • by mangu (126918)
      ...Joe "the Butcher" Provoloni said "it's not our fault if those guys paid for protection they don't actually need".
  • Great. (Score:5, Funny)

    by marcello_dl (667940) on Thursday December 21, 2006 @05:45PM (#17330286) Homepage Journal
    Now Novell will have to introduce random behaving bugs in his packages lest the microsoft support guys feel disoriented.
    • by jascat (602034)
      Now Novell will have to introduce random behaving bugs in his packages lest the microsoft support guys feel disoriented.
      You haven't used SUSE recently, have you? If that is the measure of them feeling comfortable, they should feel right at home.
  • Working the Suse helldesk for Microsoft...
    <full body shudder>
    I'd feel like I'd been shot down behind enemy lines. Or maybe more like a galley slave.
    • by mandelbr0t (1015855) on Thursday December 21, 2006 @06:17PM (#17330762) Journal
      Working the SuSE helpdesk wouldn't be as bad as you think. #1 call is going to be "I need to share these files from my Linux server to my Windows 2k/XP desktop." Microsoft will be motivated to make this happen (I've had some strange problems with this in the past). They really don't want the helpdesk response to be "Sorry, but Microsoft hasn't released that patch yet." They can blame Samba, sure, but then Microsoft looks stupid for associating with a product they won't stand behind. From an Interoperability standpoint, it seems that Microsoft is playing ball.

      I think the only real problem here was the deliberate attempt to undermine the GPL. In the end, though, the effect is not as bad as we think. GPLv3 plugs the loophole, a Linux vendor gets a ton of cash from Microsoft, and life goes on. I don't like Novell getting in bed with Microsoft, but it's not like they had a whole lot of choice. $400 million is a lot to turn down on the basis of "principles", "morals" or "ethics". The important thing is that the timing of the announcement allowed the GPL to be developed to prevent any further deals of this nature to be made.

      mandelbr0t
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by DrSkwid (118965)
        next stop - Microsoft binary Linux drivers for Suse - $799

      • Novell is suddenly cut off from any Linux software it doesn't write in house under a non-GPL license, and their stuff doesn't get integrated into new Open Source releases. What's their value to either MS or Novell investors after that happens?

        The other point is that the head of the SAMBA development team just defected to Google, hopefully to be followed by everyone else working on SAMBA who's any good currently drawing a Novell paycheck.
  • So...this deal is bad for Novell how??

    http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS6962961128.html [linux-watch.com]
    • by Intron (870560)
      It isn't. They got their thirty pieces of silver.
      • by nadamsieee (708934) on Thursday December 21, 2006 @06:52PM (#17331164)
        It isn't. They got their thirty pieces of silver.
        They may have gotten paid (short term gain), but Novell has lost their way with the community that feeds them in the process [groklaw.net] (long term loss).
        • by westlake (615356)
          They may have gotten paid (short term gain), but Novell has lost their way with the community that feeds them in the process (long term loss)

          The community that sustains Microsoft and Novell is Credit Suisse, Deutsche Bank AG, and AIG Technologies.

          When clients like these sign on to the program, the Geek becomes expendable.

          • by Jason Earl (1894) on Thursday December 21, 2006 @08:52PM (#17332328) Homepage Journal

            It's easy enough to say that, but Credit Suisse, Deutsche Bank AG, and AIG Technologies are not likely to be very happy when the next version of Samba rolls out and they can't use it because it is licensed under version 3 of the GPL and Novell can't distribute GPLv3 apps and still maintain its deal with Microsoft.

            Novell has a vested interest in keeping the Free Software community happy because there is no way that Novell can compete if it has to maintain its own forks of popular Free Software projects. Novell is having enough trouble trying to convince customers that a migration from Netware to SuSE Linux makes more sense than a migration from Netware to Windows. The last thing Novell needs is this sort of drama.

            • by westlake (615356)
              It's easy enough to say that, but Credit Suisse [is] not likely to be very happy when the next version of Samba rolls out and they can't use it because it is licensed under version 3 of the GPL and Novell can't distribute GPLv3 apps and still maintain its deal with Microsoft.

              Does Credit Suisse need Samba more than Samba needs Credit Suisse?

              Samba not only provides file and print services for various Microsoft Windows clients but can also integrate with a Windows Server domain, either as a Primary Domain C

              • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

                by Jason Earl (1894)

                Sure, Novell could swap out Samba for something written by Microsoft that does the same thing. Of course then Novell would be 100% dependent on Microsoft for an important piece of its network operating system stack. Beta versions of Samba are currently able to completely replace an AD domain controller. What do you think the chances are of Microsoft delivering something like that to Novell? If Microsoft's Samba replacement is anything like the other bits and pieces of UNIX software Microsoft has written

            • by Stalyn (662)
              It's easy enough to say that, but Credit Suisse, Deutsche Bank AG, and AIG Technologies are not likely to be very happy when the next version of Samba rolls out and they can't use it because it is licensed under version 3 of the GPL and Novell can't distribute GPLv3 apps and still maintain its deal with Microsoft.

              You sure about this in that GPLv3 will include retroactive clauses? My impression from Eben Moglen's comments is that GPLv3 will try to prevent these types of deals in the future but not ones in th
              • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

                by Jason Earl (1894)

                Novell will continue to be able to distribute GPLv2 versions of Samba. However, the new versions and added functionality will be unavailable to Novell and Novell's customers. Old versions of Samba are hardly a recipe for increased interoperability with Windows. Now, Novell could try and fork Samba from the newest GPLv2 version and compete with the official branch, but seeing as how Novell just lost their chief Samba hacker that's not likely to be a very good plan. Even if they could keep up Novell will

                • by Stalyn (662)
                  I guarantee you that Novell will be able to distribute GPLv3 software. Even assuming the Microsoft-Novell deal as it stands now will infringe on GPLv3 I'm more than confident that it can be tweaked so Novell can distribute GPLv3 software. Everyone and their mother is screaming about GPLv3 and all this time Microsoft/Novell have not changed the deal. Either they're stupid or they already planned for GPLv3.
                  • by Jason Earl (1894)

                    Either they're stupid or they already planned for GPLv3.

                    This is Novell we are talking about. My money is on stupid. Especially considering the fact that version 3 of the GPL hasn't been finalized yet and Eben Moglen has specifically stated that it will be revised so that deals of this nature won't be permitted. Sure, Novell and Microsoft could "tweak" their deal afterwards, but any tweaking they do will almost certainly bring the deal more into line with what the Free Software community wants. What's

            • "It's easy enough to say that, but Credit Suisse, Deutsche Bank AG, and AIG Technologies are not likely to be very happy when the next version of Samba rolls out and they can't use it because it is licensed under version 3 of the GPL and Novell can't distribute GPLv3 apps and still maintain its deal with Microsoft."

              This is more or less what I think, but two qualifications are needed IMO: first, Novell may be able to distribute GPL3 apps, just not those for which they have patent coverage from Microsoft -
              • by Jason Earl (1894)

                Novell's customers aren't going to appreciate any shenanigans. If Novell can't legally distribute a GPLed version of Samba then Novell's prospective customers are simply going to get their service and support from someone else. After all, for a similar price Red Hat will happily sell you support and indemnify you against patent lawsuits. Red Hat is already the leader in the Linux arms race.

                If the Samba team (or the Free Software Foundation) even breathed a word of a lawsuit for copyright infringement N

          • Re:Yawn (Score:3, Insightful)

            by symbolic (11752)
            When clients like these sign on to the program, the Geek becomes expendable.

            Sure...but only until some overpaid executive can't get his second yacht because of revenue shortfalls. This is only as permanent as there is money to be made.
    • So...this deal is bad for Novell how?? [points to the return of Mantel]

      Mantel has NOTHING to do with the M$ deal, despite the following spin:

      Indeed, Mantel approves of the partnership. "I think it is a good thing especially for the users. If you think some years back, Linux was not taken seriously. Now even Microsoft acknowledges that it exists and will not go away,"

      I'm not sure they should say he approves of the partnership, so much as he's happy M$ has acknowledged the existence of free software and

    • is going to be written to specifically disallow the kind of intellectual property deal Novell made with M$hit.

      This cuts them off from anything the community will do that's licensed under GPLv3... i.e. probably everything Novell doesn't write in-house. No more kernel upgrades, and probably no more major applications or upgrades. The only people who'll stay with GPLv2 are going to be Novell employees and SUSE loyalists. What's Novell worth if it's just been unplugged from the Open Source Community? What MS
  • by IANAAC (692242) on Thursday December 21, 2006 @05:50PM (#17330368)
    Since Credit Suisse is a new Novell customer, you'd think that Novell would have tried to sell them their own suppport.


    What am I missing?

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by LDAPMAN (930041)
      What your missing is that this is even better. MS sold them Novells support.
    • Since Credit Suisse is a new Novell customer, you'd think that Novell would have tried to sell them their own suppport.

      You'd think so, wouldn't you?

      But suppose Microsoft was offering those licenses on a "free" evaluation basis? Note that no one is talking about how many licenses Credit Suisse activated. Even one person trying one "free" license just to see how it worked would meet the criteria identified in that story.

      On the other hand, Novell's marketing efforts in the past have sucked beyond belief. It wo

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by h4rm0ny (722443)

      You're not missing anything based on the evidence available to us. The conclusion is that there's something behind the scenes. It makes me wonder what sort of deals are being made between Microsoft and the directors at Novell.
    • by PCM2 (4486) on Thursday December 21, 2006 @06:05PM (#17330620) Homepage
      Since Credit Suisse is a new Novell customer, you'd think that Novell would have tried to sell them their own suppport. What am I missing?

      According to Matt Asay over at InfoWorld, [infoworld.com] this story is incorrect, or at best exaggerated. He says he has it on authority that all the companies mentioned in the story had been using both Suse and Red Hat for some time.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by MadMorf (118601)
        We have a big Credit Suisse data center based locally and they have been using Novell products all along...

        Wonder where they got their information?
    • Why? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by NineNine (235196)
      Why would they? Why would they want two different support deals, each one supporting just their own products, or potentially, one support deal, to support their whole system, and the integration. I think that's a no-brainer. Heck, I don't know why anybody would pay for Novell support at this point.
  • by Joebert (946227)
    Even more interesting, Credit Suisse is a brand new customer for Novell.

    What's so intresting about that ?
    It's not like Microsoft would start companies to make it look like people are actually supporting this thing.
    • by amliebsch (724858)
      What are you implying, that Microsoft traveled 150 years back in time to found Credit Suisse, including its $1,174,731,000,000 in assets, just to shill for Novell?
    • What's interesting is that through the MS deal, Novell picked up a new customer. That's one less customer for Novell's competitors (i.e. Red Hat).
  • We always know Microsoft was good at selling bad stuff but this takes the cake.
    Why, oh way would you buy Linux support from Microsoft!
  • "Support" (Score:5, Interesting)

    by porkThreeWays (895269) on Thursday December 21, 2006 @05:53PM (#17330416)
    The word "support" is so overused. What exactly does support mean these days anyway? Patches that don't work? Phone calls to someone out of the country that doesn't speak your language natively and has never actually used the program in a production environment? Hold times of 45 minutes? Security updates that break other parts?

    Honestly, the word "support" to me has almost no meaning anymore. It's been thrown out there so many times as the deciding factor in a purchase, however I've yet to see really useful support. I've dealt with companies big and small and have never resolved a difficult issue in less than an hour with their supplied support.

    All I care about anymore is whether they give you the proper tools to solve the problem yourself. Proper documentation and the source code (yes, smaller companies will give you source code if you are big enough and that's the deal breaker). I'll take that over a level I phone jockey any day!
    • by LDAPMAN (930041)
      "Support" for these types of companies is not a level 1 phone jockey. They will likely have dedicated support engineers on site. At the very least they will have a person reponsible for managing support issues.
    • by PRMan (959735)

      No joke.

      I recently had a problem on my Windows machine where it didn't want to keep my profile when I joined the new domain at work. Since all my user settings were in there, I needed to copy my settings over from my old profile. We're talking, it would take me a couple weeks to get everything set back up and I had a deadline. This used to be easy on 2000 but on XP they have really made it difficult. I spent 6 hours talking to various levels of support in India.

      Finally, they agreed to call me back

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by McDutchie (151611)

      The word "support" is so overused. What exactly does support mean these days anyway? Patches that don't work? Phone calls to someone out of the country that doesn't speak your language natively and has never actually used the program in a production environment? Hold times of 45 minutes? Security updates that break other parts?

      None of that. It means "paid scapegoat", i.e. job security for IT professionals who, instead of getting fired for the inevitable IT problems, can shift the blame for those onto the

  • Masochists. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Bandman (86149) <bandman@NosPAM.gmail.com> on Thursday December 21, 2006 @05:53PM (#17330426) Homepage
    Yes, because Microsoft's Windows support is such a sterling example of quality, I can see where companies would have to be literally fended off with dead chickens from taking this deal.

  • This is the one time I feel that "ItsaTrap" would be an appropriate tag.

  • BAD Headline... (Score:5, Informative)

    by LDAPMAN (930041) on Thursday December 21, 2006 @06:02PM (#17330570)
    MS is not providing them Linux support. The sold them Novells support program.
  • Is that I don't have an account with those 3 institutions.

    So I could close em.
    • by hritcu (871613)
      My main bank account is with Deutsche Bank. They are a great bank, so closing my account just because they are mentioned in the same article as Microsoft is just immature. On the contrary, knowing that my bank uses some Linux (as opposed to proprietary solutions) makes me feel even better with them.
  • They are... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Misch (158807) on Thursday December 21, 2006 @06:26PM (#17330870) Homepage
    Dewey, Cheetem, and Howe
  • Even though I am using Debian, SUSE Linux distribution is a very good one, and dominant, I believe, in Europe. Not surprised that the CS and DB signed up. I just wonder how the whole Novell/MS deal will pan out for Novell, MS, and GPL/Linux camps at large...

    • Btw, it appears the Linux business is based on support revenue, whereas Windows business is based on licensing fee revenue. If SUSE customers buy support from MS, Novell might as well turn out the lights and liquidate whatever assets they have.
    • If by "dominant" you mean less than 6% share and dropping, then yes, SUSE is "dominant" in Europe. Unfortunately Red Hat is 92% share, even this side of the pond - and neither Novell nor Oracle are making the tiniest dent in their figures. Most of the Novell figures are sleight of hand, bundling SUSE inside Netware (read: OES) and hoping the stock market will confuse units shipped = units being used. Ask for the active subscription figures, and you'll see the real story.
  • What strikes me here is that Microsoft could potentially make more money selling "we won't sue you" certificates to [Novell] Linux users than the companies actually providing *real* support for said systems ...
  • "Three Tankers Named for Microsoft's Linux Support" U.S.S. Itsatrap
  • by AlHunt (982887)
    Great! Maybe Credit Suisse has a bunch of Toshiba laptops and THEY can pay MS to figure out why opensuse 10.2 crashes the shit out of my Toshiba laptop, when 10.1 ran like a swiss watch.

    See? MS might just help the linux community

  • They will outsource Linux support just like they did for their MS Professional and MS Premier support contracts for EMEA. Not necessarily a bad thing, considering customer satisfaction for their support started rating better as soon they outsourced it to HP. HP is already in the Linux market, they would be the potential bidders for doing their Linux support as well.
  • Microsoft's technical support for Novell Inc.'s Suse Enterprise Linux


    My sides are splitting.
  • How hard would it be (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    for Microsoft to make Windows more compatible with Linux? Not very. Support _standard_ LDAP and webdav + NFS and remote X display and you'd be mostly there. Instead, Microsoft broke compatibility with most of these protocols/standards or ignored them. Seems ironic now that they are talking about interoperability.
  • Why not? They already have a UNIX-compatible shell of sorts, a deal with Novell, plus they are supporting Linux. Look at IBM, which makes a real nice business with Linux support. These guys could make something that REALLY was compatible with MS Office and all the rest. Look a Mono trying to build a bridge to them. Just think of what they could do starting from their end. Pretty scary, huh? But wouldn't it really make things interesting?
  • Dutsche Bank is as dirty as they come:

    http://www.dbankfraudinfocenter.com/ [dbankfraudinfocenter.com]

    Remember Skiba? He was an analyst from Dutsche who - in deference to all logic and evidence - predicted that scox would climb to $45/share. For those who don't watch stock prices, scox is about $1 a share now.

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