eldavojohn writes "Microsoft has announced that it would be open to more deals similar to the one it just made with Novell. 'We will love to put that kind of agreement in place with anyone who distributes Linux software, Red Hat, whoever else,' Steve Ballmer told India's Economic Times. Considering the recent reactions to the Microsoft Novell deal, it would be interesting to see who else takes them up on the offer. Novell is due to receive USD $348 million in up-front payments. Will Red Hat cash out on this offer if it feels the impending pressure from Oracle's Linux? Will non-profit Linux distributions attempt to make deals with Microsoft?"
"We will love to put that kind of agreement in place with anyone[everyone] who distributes Linux software, Red Hat, whoever[everyone] else," Steve Ballmer told India's Economic Times.
Way too obvious.
"Mr Ballmer, on a visit to India, said that while he believed software would be increasingly downloaded and managed off the internet,"
As in apt-get?
""I would say we are moving to a world where there is a lot more electronic distribution. It is a new style of software, not the old-style distributed electronically.""
He's obviously not taking his meds - as in the 'raise my IQ above that of a carot' pill he must need each morning to get out the door.
"The next frontier for us is to embrace a new business model. And if we embrace it well and that business model is subscription and advertising,"
Curious that he left out 'make good software' and 'support'...
You know, first posts are definitely a dying art. Whatever happened to someone just scribbling down "frist psot" and hitting submit? Where are the GNAA activists? The parent poster actually put together a coherent, rational post *relating* to the article (hell, he even quotes from it).
Can someone explain to him the way things work around here - a misspelled rant about Natalie Portman and some grits would have gone a lot further, thats all I can say.
"We will love to put that kind of agreement in place with anyone [everyone] who distributes Linux software, Red Hat, whoever [everyone] else," Steve Ballmer told India's Economic Times.
Linux, being free (speech, beer) can't be bought and buried, so the traditional corporate stragegy of buying and dismantling a competitor won't work. And you just *know* that it drives them crazy in Redmond! They're sitting on mountain of cash and it won't help them a bit. It's the worst possible outcome -- they must compete!
Linux can't be buried in the same way that a proprietary piece of software can, granted, but I think that Microsoft thinks that it can be buried -- or at least made irrelevant -- through use of software patents.
Basically, you engage in Novell-like patent cross-licensing deals with all the major Linux manufacturers, and push them towards one distribution ("MSLinux"). You drop hints about possible liability if anyone uses non-licensed distributions, discouraging their adoption and funding. Plus, you create a lot of proprietary, MSLinux-only 'compatibility extensions' that let it work with Windows. In the end, once "MSLinux" has captured a significant portion of the market, you cut of its air supply and let it die. This leaves people with little choice but to migrate to Windows, since the other Linux distributions are either perceived to be dangerous (due to patent landmines) or have simply been neglected and underfunded for so long, that they can no longer compete.
It's not a total endgame against Linux, but it's a pretty significant move. The GPL prohibits Linux from ever being killed completely (particularly outside the U.S.); but if you get enough software patents, it might be basically impossible to use in any significant, competitive way, without opening oneself up to legal problems.
The real unknown variable in all this is where IBM stands. They're obviously pro-Linux, but their support is generally indirect. You don't see them buying or operating their own Linux flavor or distribution outright. I wonder if Microsoft started buying up the competition, and the field started to narrow, would IBM jump in and pick up one of the players?
IIRC, the Linux desktop that IBM was going to deploy companywide (which would have been significant in itself, they have something like 300k employees) was a RHEL derivative. I wonder if they have some relationship with RH that would make them a likely buyout, or at least patent cross-licensing target?
That would be interesting; Novell and Microsoft and their patents on one side, and Red Hat and IBM on another, with the biggest repository of patents in the U.S. That would be an interesting showdown.
The problem with all those arguments is that Novell/SuSE, RedHat, Debian, and Ubuntu are largely just distributors and packagers of other people's software. They can't cut deals on behalf of the authors, and the original authors of that software are vigilant about software patents, as is the user community.
Furthermore, we have had several software patent claims against FOSS and they have had no teeth: by the nature of FOSS projects, wilfull infringement hardly ever occurs, and damages are hard to claim. In the end, software patents are quickly and easily disposed of by FOSS by working around them.
I think we should consider this spending mostly part of a big FUD and PR campaign on the part of Microsoft. In the end, however, it's meaningless.
"Curious that he left out 'make good software' and 'support'... "
You've hit it right on the head. There are quite a few things Balmer is leaving out; and what he's not saying speaks volumes. He's also deliberately not saying that Microsoft wishes to become a good citizen of the Linux community.
Or, in short, what he's telling us is that Microsoft is up to its old tricks again. One needs to ignore the smoke and mirrors, and instead read between the lines.
That's why I object to Novell's deal. What they have done is to deliberately attempt to go around the rules that everyone must play by. That's not being a good member of the community; that's telling everyone else to f*** off, they don't have to play by the normal rules. Pure sleeze, which is the unfortunate norm of the closed source world. I had expected better from Novell.
If Microsoft and Novell wish to foster respect and trust, they need to play by the GPL and not try to figure out ways to go around it.
Your stretching it a bit by belittling Apple. They and NeXT did the impossible - they made Unix really, really usable. I speak as someone who bought a Mac intending to stick NetBSD or Yellow Dog Linux on it, only to end up sticking to OS X because I find it so easy to live with.
- No support (aside from 90-day installation support, ONLY for the retail, not OEM version)
- NO WARRANTY
- Effective elimination of your first sale doctrine rights
They know better to not claim "good software" and "good support" as Windows' strength(s).
When competition becomes serious, "embrace and extend." This is exactly what MS's outlandish purchases in the 90s were about, and it seems they just forgot about it for a while (and were probably concerned about antitrust).
Meet the new Microsoft... same as the old Microsoft.
Certainly, their client software is their cash cow, but see how little attention it is getting compared to servers and tools? Consider this: most windows liscences are sold at a steep discount when bundled with a PC... which does make MS profit, but a steadily decreasing one. I think MS is shifting their business model (which they are very good at). I won't say I know what they are up to, but it is clear that they have a long term plan.
I doubt it. If they got it, then they would GPL therir software and release their patents so they could be more effective as a service based industry instead of a control based one. What they get is the use of DRM to control content, I haven't herd anyone at Microsoft repudiate that intellectual property is their "crown jewels" as they call them. You see information is so easy to copy and modify that in a DRM world you can't have some content systems that are restricted and others that are not, otherwise a
They can't just strike deals with everonye that distributes linux and add their 'touch' to it. You can't 'buy' Linux. You can have all the companies in your pocket that you want, but at the end of the day, it's still going to be free and maintained by developers from all over.
You know what, I am a nobody in the Linux world, but I support the deal. I have read what I think are the terms and have found that they not that bad.
We'll be able to get SuSE Linux as we're getting the OS now. The difference is that the "threat" of suits will not be hanging on users of SuSE. This is not bad at all in my opinion.One thing I am sure of is that we will be able to play MS media files and use OpenOffice.org without fearing that a suit might be coming anytime.
To me you sound like a fool, anyone else could threaten to sue users of SuSE for "IP" related issues, any one else could actually sue users for "IP" related issues, neither of which would be proof of "IP" related issues really existing. If there really is "IP" related issues in Linux, MS should spell them out, Novell at least should spell them out. For you to "support" this deal because the terms are "not that bad" sounds foolish. Do you think this is a reasonable way for a company to do business, trying to
Now, can any slashdoter tell me why this deal is really bad and should be avoided?
I'm not saying either of those things - but I don't have the warm and fuzzies over this. Why? Because there is no immediate answer to the most obvious question; What does Microsoft believe they are getting for their 348 million dollars?
I mean - they ponied up a third of a bill so that you'd be protected from lawsuits...from them. Wouldn't it have been cheaper to - say - not sue? I'd have to double-check my figures; but I'm pretty sure that will cost you nothing.
They're getting something out of this (or at least they believe they are), and if you've directly benefited, then it's reasonable to believe that it's costing you something as well (TNSTAAFL).
Maybe it's a good trade, maybe not, but Microsoft has earned a certain reputation among this audience.
Time, and the trust of Linux users other than myself, will tell.
So Microsoft gives money to NOVEL. In exchange NOVEL can tell its customers hey look, not only you have the right to use that (as before), but now also we can assure you that Microsoft won't sue you (never been done anyway).... ah great. I was sure they would never sue me before any way, there's no such broken e-patent where I live. Or maybe next time I fly over to the US, the DHS will arrest me?
So what? Microsoft wants to give the deal to everyone.. ; hey i want to destribute my own distribution. Can I have a few milliion dollars too Steve? Just to make sure you won't sue me.... anyway, considered I have only $2000 in my bank account, even if you sued me, I would not even be able to cover your legal fee no?
Mmmm.. now i'm trembling. In a few seconds, I will click on a button at a bottom of this page and I will send that to slashdot... and crap, Amazon has patented the one click... Microsoft the click which does different thing if you click for a long or short time.. Ah crap. Maybe using my penis instead of a mouse is not patented, who knows.
There are a few comments here where people say "old news. apt-get. etc" While this style of distribution may be old news, it's not something people outside our community are aware of. Even if you hate MS, it's hard to deny how much research is done there. Somewhere around 1/4 of all computer graphics research is done there and they release papers for it too. Who knows what will come from them trying methods we hold dear. It could be good. If it's bad, then we don't have to care about their work.
Information is information regardless of where it comes from. What I'd really like to see is MS learning a lot from Linux distros and then incorporates things I happen to love about linux and oss into the system my employer forces me to use (so I can read spreadsheets... ugh). It would make my working life more fun.
The MS strategy here seems obvious to me. They bring a bunch of open source groups under their roof. The open source people who make money help MS make money as time goes by through support (not sure why MS is paying so much in advance, to be honest). The open source people embrace things like mono which work for any language (eventually) and on any system (mono). MS knows the uber geeks will probably still use Linux or Bsd or whatever, but they now can bring a LOT more open source software into the windows world. Beagle is a neat tool. Tomboy is neat. Are they neat enough for my mom to use on her windows computer? Possibly. MS could modify it and then redistribute, couldn't they? I think the gateway between free apps that are neat and their money making os is simply being opened.
If our software really is so much better, then what do we have to be afraid of. The software is GPL'd which means we're safe from anyone taking it away from us...
To take it a little further, Miguel has said many times he'd like to move all of gnome to mono. If that actually happened, you should be able to run gnome on windows. Then any compiz work going on is also windows work... Not sure how realistic this scenario is, but it certainly would be interesting! There's just to much to gain from sharing and I think MS is in a good position to make most of the money from it...
[dons flameproof undies] I think if you have microsofted Linuxes, then you'll have the purists jumping ship wholesale, consolidating with other distros. What doesn't kill Linux only makes Ubuntu stronger, as they say. I'm really not worried. I won't be using Novell/Suse. I was hoping for Novell to crush MS like MS crushed Novell with NT. That's a giant monster battle over the city of Tokyo worth watching, if you ask me. But now they're partners, like Mothra and Godzilla, or whoever that was that teamed up
Seriously - considering MS's past record with ex "partners" - I can't see why anyone else would want to "partner" with them.... Unless Novell wants to go the way of Corel very soon...
Realistically Red Hat should at least go to the table with Microsoft, though presumably it will do so quietly behind the scenes. If nothing else it lets Red Hat get a much better idea of what Novell has signed on for and, through negotiations with Microsoft, a better idea of what Microsoft is willing to offer. Just testing the boundaries of what sorts of licensing and patent agreements Microsoft is willing to make could be very informative, and there's no compulsion for Red Hat to take the deal. It makes sense to at least find out what exactly is on offer.
In the first articles I read on this, the idea I got was that people thought perhaps Microsoft set up this deal in order to legitimize the value of their patents so that they can later sue other distributors (and maybe users). The theory was that they'd be able to point to the deal where Novell paid them $40M for their patents and say "see, these are valuable, and the defendant is willfully infringing them, we deserve massive damages".
Upon further reflection, that doesn't make any sense to me. Unless he's a complete idiot, the defendant's attorney would just say "Your honor, Novell paid $40M to the plaintiff as part of a larger deal that was offered by the plaintiff and netted Novell $340M, after the $40M payment. Novell didn't pay for these patent licenses, the plaintiff paid Novell to take them specifically so that it could use that deal as evidence of their value. No, your honor, the plaintiff has not established the value of these patents with that deal, if anything the plaintiff has established their lack of value".
I think what's really going on here is that Microsoft is trying to disarm the opposition.
See, the way big corporate patent battles often play out is that no money changes hands, because the defendant just points out all of their patents that the plaintiff is infringing. There are some big companies with big patent portfolios that have a vested interest in defending Linux. Novell and IBM are the biggest. I think that Microsoft is afraid to press its own patent claims because Novell and IBM might step in on the side of the defendant and offer to countersue for Microsoft infringement of Novell and IBM patents.
BUT, if Microsoft can pre-emptively create cross-licensing agreements with the big potential Linux defenders, that problem goes away and Microsoft is then free to unleash its patent portfolio on Linux.
I'm not too worried about Novell signing up, and I wouldn't even be too worried about Red Hat, since I don't think Red Hat has a lot of patents, but if Microsoft signs (or has already signed?) a big cross-licensing deal with IBM then I think there could be a very significant risk to Linux. I'm sure there are numerous patent cross-licensing deals in place between Microsoft and IBM because of their cooperative history in the past, but only they know whether or not those deals are sufficient to allow Microsoft to attack Linux with impunity.
The ink on the Novell-MS deal isn't even dry yet and Ballmer is publicly announcing his intention to violate it.
In case nobody noticed, one of the clauses is that Microsoft won't cut any similar deals with Linux companies for at least three years. It's barely three days and they're already trolling for more.
I've been looking at all of the threads here -- interesting
points for and against what Microsoft is doing. For any
other large dominant company I might look at
this as an encouraging development that could help the Linux
movement. But Microsoft's history and habits lead me to
different conclusions, or at least instincts about their intent.
I could list the litany of Microsoft's trespasses, not the
least of which includes their DOJ conviction and subsequent
Consent Decree which Microsoft seems to only loosely honor. Buy
I need only look to the very recent past to
find typical strong-armed and bullying Microsoft behavior,
specifically their introduction of Zune and its
associated music store silo.
Microsoft brought big guns, and big players (Samsung,
Creative, among others) to develop and create the portable music
industry of "Plays for Sure". The idea was to have players and
music compatible across a wide swath of hardware with a large
musical repertoire for purchase.
But Microsoft has thumbed its nose at that effort and struck
out on its own with an incompatible "other" way of doing music...
heck it's even incompatible with the old Microsoft Music Store!
What the heck?
So, while I can't predict or summon up the specifics of
Microsoft's intentions to harm the Linux community and how
Microsoft would do just that, but I sure have seen enough to be
pretty sure their ultimate goal is to squash Linux, or make it
completely theirs to the extent and extreme it no longer looks
anything like the Linux of today.
I hope the other Linux distros can withstand the Microsoft
juggernaut.
Sell out is damn right! You can't put a pricetag on loyalty. The reason why linux is where it is today.... is because at least 1 company (cough... redhat) didn't sell out during the 90s.
Way too obvious (Score:5, Insightful)
Way too obvious.
"Mr Ballmer, on a visit to India, said that while he believed software would be increasingly downloaded and managed off the internet,"
As in apt-get?
""I would say we are moving to a world where there is a lot more electronic distribution. It is a new style of software, not the old-style distributed electronically.""
He's obviously not taking his meds - as in the 'raise my IQ above that of a carot' pill he must need each morning to get out the door.
"The next frontier for us is to embrace a new business model. And if we embrace it well and that business model is subscription and advertising,"
Curious that he left out 'make good software' and 'support'...
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Can someone explain to him the way things work around here - a misspelled rant about Natalie Portman and some grits would have gone a lot further, thats all I can say.
Re:Way too obvious (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
For the last time, Senator Kerry -- if you're going to make "OMFG hes so teh stupid!" jokes, you need to be able to, say, spell "carrot" correctly.
Re:Way too obvious (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
One possible scheme (Score:5, Interesting)
Basically, you engage in Novell-like patent cross-licensing deals with all the major Linux manufacturers, and push them towards one distribution ("MSLinux"). You drop hints about possible liability if anyone uses non-licensed distributions, discouraging their adoption and funding. Plus, you create a lot of proprietary, MSLinux-only 'compatibility extensions' that let it work with Windows. In the end, once "MSLinux" has captured a significant portion of the market, you cut of its air supply and let it die. This leaves people with little choice but to migrate to Windows, since the other Linux distributions are either perceived to be dangerous (due to patent landmines) or have simply been neglected and underfunded for so long, that they can no longer compete.
It's not a total endgame against Linux, but it's a pretty significant move. The GPL prohibits Linux from ever being killed completely (particularly outside the U.S.); but if you get enough software patents, it might be basically impossible to use in any significant, competitive way, without opening oneself up to legal problems.
The real unknown variable in all this is where IBM stands. They're obviously pro-Linux, but their support is generally indirect. You don't see them buying or operating their own Linux flavor or distribution outright. I wonder if Microsoft started buying up the competition, and the field started to narrow, would IBM jump in and pick up one of the players?
IIRC, the Linux desktop that IBM was going to deploy companywide (which would have been significant in itself, they have something like 300k employees) was a RHEL derivative. I wonder if they have some relationship with RH that would make them a likely buyout, or at least patent cross-licensing target?
That would be interesting; Novell and Microsoft and their patents on one side, and Red Hat and IBM on another, with the biggest repository of patents in the U.S. That would be an interesting showdown.
Parent
meaningless (Score:4, Insightful)
Furthermore, we have had several software patent claims against FOSS and they have had no teeth: by the nature of FOSS projects, wilfull infringement hardly ever occurs, and damages are hard to claim. In the end, software patents are quickly and easily disposed of by FOSS by working around them.
I think we should consider this spending mostly part of a big FUD and PR campaign on the part of Microsoft. In the end, however, it's meaningless.
Parent
What he leaves out says a lot (Score:5, Insightful)
You've hit it right on the head. There are quite a few things Balmer is leaving out; and what he's not saying speaks volumes. He's also deliberately not saying that Microsoft wishes to become a good citizen of the Linux community.
Or, in short, what he's telling us is that Microsoft is up to its old tricks again. One needs to ignore the smoke and mirrors, and instead read between the lines.
That's why I object to Novell's deal. What they have done is to deliberately attempt to go around the rules that everyone must play by. That's not being a good member of the community; that's telling everyone else to f*** off, they don't have to play by the normal rules. Pure sleeze, which is the unfortunate norm of the closed source world. I had expected better from Novell.
If Microsoft and Novell wish to foster respect and trust, they need to play by the GPL and not try to figure out ways to go around it.
Parent
Re:Way too obvious (Score:5, Funny)
Does that really work?
qubit@mslinuxbox:~$ make good software
make: *** No rule to make target `good'. Stop.
qubit@mslinuxbox:~$
Hmm... doesn't work for me...
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Your stretching it a bit by belittling Apple. They and NeXT did the impossible - they made Unix really, really usable. I speak as someone who bought a Mac intending to stick NetBSD or Yellow Dog Linux on it, only to end up sticking to OS X because I find it so easy to live with.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
- No support (aside from 90-day installation support, ONLY for the retail, not OEM version)
- NO WARRANTY
- Effective elimination of your first sale doctrine rights
They know better to not claim "good software" and "good support" as Windows' strength(s).
Well, I guess Microsoft Gets It Now (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Well, I guess Microsoft Gets It Now (Score:5, Interesting)
When competition becomes serious, "embrace and extend." This is exactly what MS's outlandish purchases in the 90s were about, and it seems they just forgot about it for a while (and were probably concerned about antitrust).
Meet the new Microsoft... same as the old Microsoft.
Parent
Re:Well, I guess Microsoft Gets It Now (Score:4, Interesting)
http://www.hunterstrat.com/news/2006/10/26/microso ft-1q-fy07-earnings-segment-breakout/ [hunterstrat.com]
Certainly, their client software is their cash cow, but see how little attention it is getting compared to servers and tools? Consider this: most windows liscences are sold at a steep discount when bundled with a PC... which does make MS profit, but a steadily decreasing one. I think MS is shifting their business model (which they are very good at). I won't say I know what they are up to, but it is clear that they have a long term plan.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
You see information is so easy to copy and modify that in a DRM world you can't have some content systems that are restricted and others that are not, otherwise a
New busines plan (Score:2)
2-Let M$ buy your soul
3-Profit
4-???
/me (Score:2)
Microsoft still doesn't 'get' it (Score:2, Insightful)
On the whole, I support the deal... (Score:2)
We'll be able to get SuSE Linux as we're getting the OS now. The difference is that the "threat" of suits will not be hanging on users of SuSE. This is not bad at all in my opinion.One thing I am sure of is that we will be able to play MS media files and use OpenOffice.org without fearing that a suit might be coming anytime.
Now, can any slashdoter tell me wh
Re:On the whole, you sound like a fool... (Score:2, Insightful)
For you to "support" this deal because the terms are "not that bad" sounds foolish. Do you think this is a reasonable way for a company to do business, trying to
Re:On the whole, I support the deal... (Score:5, Insightful)
Now, can any slashdoter tell me why this deal is really bad and should be avoided?
I'm not saying either of those things - but I don't have the warm and fuzzies over this. Why? Because there is no immediate answer to the most obvious question; What does Microsoft believe they are getting for their 348 million dollars?
I mean - they ponied up a third of a bill so that you'd be protected from lawsuits...from them. Wouldn't it have been cheaper to - say - not sue? I'd have to double-check my figures; but I'm pretty sure that will cost you nothing.
They're getting something out of this (or at least they believe they are), and if you've directly benefited, then it's reasonable to believe that it's costing you something as well (TNSTAAFL).
Maybe it's a good trade, maybe not, but Microsoft has earned a certain reputation among this audience.
Time, and the trust of Linux users other than myself, will tell.
Parent
Mod parent up! (Score:3, Insightful)
And certainly not at a third of a billion dollars for that "help".
What, specifically, is being purchased?
Re: (Score:2)
Cringley calls shenanigans (Score:4, Informative)
Typicial Indian newspaper quote (Score:2)
Ballmer most likely said "We would like to put that kind of aggreement in place..."
Again, not a troll, but I've seen that kind of "quote" in Indian English papers fairly often.
Ah yeah (Score:4, Insightful)
So what? Microsoft wants to give the deal to everyone.. ; hey i want to destribute my own distribution. Can I have a few milliion dollars too Steve? Just to make sure you won't sue me.... anyway, considered I have only $2000 in my bank account, even if you sued me, I would not even be able to cover your legal fee no?
Mmmm.. now i'm trembling. In a few seconds, I will click on a button at a bottom of this page and I will send that to slashdot... and crap, Amazon has patented the one click... Microsoft the click which does different thing if you click for a long or short time.. Ah crap. Maybe using my penis instead of a mouse is not patented, who knows.
"Old news!" Not for people who use MS... (Score:4, Interesting)
Information is information regardless of where it comes from. What I'd really like to see is MS learning a lot from Linux distros and then incorporates things I happen to love about linux and oss into the system my employer forces me to use (so I can read spreadsheets... ugh). It would make my working life more fun.
The MS strategy here seems obvious to me. They bring a bunch of open source groups under their roof. The open source people who make money help MS make money as time goes by through support (not sure why MS is paying so much in advance, to be honest). The open source people embrace things like mono which work for any language (eventually) and on any system (mono). MS knows the uber geeks will probably still use Linux or Bsd or whatever, but they now can bring a LOT more open source software into the windows world. Beagle is a neat tool. Tomboy is neat. Are they neat enough for my mom to use on her windows computer? Possibly. MS could modify it and then redistribute, couldn't they? I think the gateway between free apps that are neat and their money making os is simply being opened.
If our software really is so much better, then what do we have to be afraid of. The software is GPL'd which means we're safe from anyone taking it away from us...
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
If they decide to patent it then we very much do have to care.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Sure they are! (Score:3, Funny)
The same way a humpback whale is interested in plankton.
Do No Evil? (Score:5, Funny)
I'm guessing that that would be the "Do No Evil" part, Mr. Ballmer?
This could turn out to be a good thing (Score:2, Insightful)
I think if you have microsofted Linuxes, then you'll have the purists jumping ship wholesale, consolidating with other distros. What doesn't kill Linux only makes Ubuntu stronger, as they say.
I'm really not worried. I won't be using Novell/Suse. I was hoping for Novell to crush MS like MS crushed Novell with NT. That's a giant monster battle over the city of Tokyo worth watching, if you ask me. But now they're partners, like Mothra and Godzilla, or whoever that was that teamed up
as elmer FUD would say ... (Score:2)
Seriously - considering MS's past record with ex "partners" - I can't see why anyone else would want to "partner" with them
Red Hat should go to the table (Score:5, Insightful)
What could be Microsoft's rationale? (Score:3, Insightful)
In the first articles I read on this, the idea I got was that people thought perhaps Microsoft set up this deal in order to legitimize the value of their patents so that they can later sue other distributors (and maybe users). The theory was that they'd be able to point to the deal where Novell paid them $40M for their patents and say "see, these are valuable, and the defendant is willfully infringing them, we deserve massive damages".
Upon further reflection, that doesn't make any sense to me. Unless he's a complete idiot, the defendant's attorney would just say "Your honor, Novell paid $40M to the plaintiff as part of a larger deal that was offered by the plaintiff and netted Novell $340M, after the $40M payment. Novell didn't pay for these patent licenses, the plaintiff paid Novell to take them specifically so that it could use that deal as evidence of their value. No, your honor, the plaintiff has not established the value of these patents with that deal, if anything the plaintiff has established their lack of value".
I think what's really going on here is that Microsoft is trying to disarm the opposition.
See, the way big corporate patent battles often play out is that no money changes hands, because the defendant just points out all of their patents that the plaintiff is infringing. There are some big companies with big patent portfolios that have a vested interest in defending Linux. Novell and IBM are the biggest. I think that Microsoft is afraid to press its own patent claims because Novell and IBM might step in on the side of the defendant and offer to countersue for Microsoft infringement of Novell and IBM patents.
BUT, if Microsoft can pre-emptively create cross-licensing agreements with the big potential Linux defenders, that problem goes away and Microsoft is then free to unleash its patent portfolio on Linux.
I'm not too worried about Novell signing up, and I wouldn't even be too worried about Red Hat, since I don't think Red Hat has a lot of patents, but if Microsoft signs (or has already signed?) a big cross-licensing deal with IBM then I think there could be a very significant risk to Linux. I'm sure there are numerous patent cross-licensing deals in place between Microsoft and IBM because of their cooperative history in the past, but only they know whether or not those deals are sufficient to allow Microsoft to attack Linux with impunity.
Cheap money to scuttle/cherrypick linux (Score:2, Insightful)
Maybe the "itsatrap" tag DOES apply here... (Score:2)
For some reason, this old saying came to mind:
Once one pays Danegeld, one never gets rid of the Dane.
Bring out your dead! (Score:5, Funny)
CUSTOMER: What?
MIRCOSOFT: Nothing. Here's your money.
LINUX: I'm not dead!
CUSTOMER: He says he's not dead!
MICROSOFT: Yes, he is.
LINUX: I'm not!
CUSTOMER: He isn't?
MICROSOFT: Well, he will be soon. He's very ill.
LINUX: I'm getting better!
MICROSOFT: No, you're not. You'll be stone dead in a moment.
A record, even for Microsoft (Score:5, Interesting)
The ink on the Novell-MS deal isn't even dry yet and Ballmer is publicly announcing his intention to violate it.
In case nobody noticed, one of the clauses is that Microsoft won't cut any similar deals with Linux companies for at least three years. It's barely three days and they're already trolling for more.
Microsoft's habits will die hard (Score:5, Insightful)
I've been looking at all of the threads here -- interesting points for and against what Microsoft is doing. For any other large dominant company I might look at this as an encouraging development that could help the Linux movement. But Microsoft's history and habits lead me to different conclusions, or at least instincts about their intent.
I could list the litany of Microsoft's trespasses, not the least of which includes their DOJ conviction and subsequent Consent Decree which Microsoft seems to only loosely honor. Buy I need only look to the very recent past to find typical strong-armed and bullying Microsoft behavior, specifically their introduction of Zune and its associated music store silo.
Microsoft brought big guns, and big players (Samsung, Creative, among others) to develop and create the portable music industry of "Plays for Sure". The idea was to have players and music compatible across a wide swath of hardware with a large musical repertoire for purchase.
But Microsoft has thumbed its nose at that effort and struck out on its own with an incompatible "other" way of doing music... heck it's even incompatible with the old Microsoft Music Store! What the heck?
So, while I can't predict or summon up the specifics of Microsoft's intentions to harm the Linux community and how Microsoft would do just that, but I sure have seen enough to be pretty sure their ultimate goal is to squash Linux, or make it completely theirs to the extent and extreme it no longer looks anything like the Linux of today.
I hope the other Linux distros can withstand the Microsoft juggernaut.
Yawn (Score:3, Interesting)
Wake me up when they become partners with something like Debian
New Headline - MS invests in cancer (Score:3, Insightful)
Will you walk into my parlour? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
You can have my linux when you deposit that hundred million dollar check in my bank account.
If I were Redhat I would sell out for half a billion dollars and then jump onto a BSD project and restart your business.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm honestly curious. I've only heard that Novell would be supporting Microsoft virtualization under Linux as a result.