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Linux Business

Dell's Open Source Desktop Systems 176

Posted by Zonk from the unfamiliar-frontier-for-penguins dept.
An anonymous reader writes "An article at XYZComputing goes over Dell's open source line of desktop computers and workstations. The N line is something which Dell began to sell recently, but the situation is much more complex that it would seem. There is often little or no discount given if consumers opt to go with FreeDOS as their operating system. There is also a great link in the article showing how Dell is selling AMD processors in their Accessories section!" From the article: "A major hurdle preventing the growth of Linux with non-professional users has been installation the operating system and dealing with the resultant compatibility issues. An ideal solution to this would be a major manufacturer which is willing to sell computers with Linux preinstalled. This would not only make it easy for users to buy a computer and have Linux running after simply plugging it in, but it would theoretically allow the manufacturer to lower the cost of a computer because software licensing costs could be minimized."
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Dell's Open Source Desktop Systems More

Dell's Open Source Desktop Systems

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  • Slashdot's Open Source DUPE systems. (Score:5, Informative)

    by TripMaster Monkey ( 862126 ) * on Friday November 11, 2005 @01:30PM (#14009473)

    Didn't we discuss this over a month ago??? [slashdot.org]
    • Yes, we appear to have discussed this recently...but for me, the subject of Dell and Linux is kind-of boring now. I find it is the same old thing. The editor should have given us a break on this one.
      • Yes, we appear to have discussed this recently...but for me, the subject of Dell and Linux is kind-of boring now. I find it is the same old thing.

        Just because Dell's been selling them for about 5 years now if I recall and EVERY ONE of the submitter's acts as if this is a new development (...Dell recently began selling...) Appearantly nobody's figured out they install a FreeOS on the system that nobody is going to use so they don't have to worry about software support (not to mention every zealoty in the w

    • Yes, but for some reason everything XYZ submits is posted up. They must have some sort of deal with ./
      • Yes, but for some reason everything XYZ submits is posted up. They must have some sort of deal with ./maybe Roland got a job with them? But seriously, I don't understand why any of the XYZ stories make the grade. They are generally poorly written, and the web site is just layered with huge numbers of ads.
    • So we are certain to see an interesting and informed discussion of the topic this time. After all we have had one practice run and all this time to ponder the subject..... oh never mind this is slashdot we are talking about.
    • How do you always manage to catch these dupes, TripMaster? Have you developed a Firefox plugin that automatically locates these dupes?

      Or do you just toss out a dupe claim every now and then, and end up being correct just because 80% of the stories here are dupes?

      • Or maybe he just has a good memory and uses the Search Engine.

        Don't be so cynical.

        (Side Note: What's with all the TMM hate around here, anyway? Like his posts, don't like his posts, whatever. All this trolling of him goes way beyond retribution for whatever he might have done. Was there some sort of pre-slashdot forumn that he pissed everyone off on, or is everyone just overreacting?)
        • You're the only one here considering the idea of hating TripMaster. Knowing his high degree of sophistication when it comes to software, I would not be surprised if he had built an automated system to detect duplicate stories.

          Frankly, I am a major fan of TripMaster Monkey. I think his contributions here are grand. I don't know why you choose to hate him so much, but then again, that's up to you. I'll continue to read, enjoy, and learn from his posts.

          • You're the only one here considering the idea of hating TripMaster. Knowing his high degree of sophistication when it comes to software, I would not be surprised if he had built an automated system to detect duplicate stories.

            After your response, I re-read it and realized that you're attempting to compliment him. My apologies. Unfortunately, TMM seems to attract a metric tonne load of trolls every time he posts. This is probably why I read your post in a rather cynical light. Sorry about that.

            I still want
            • I accept your apology. I am glad to see that we both appreciate TripMaster Monkey, and all that he brings to Slashdot.

              You wouldn't happen to know if he has any published journal papers available, would you? I would very much like to read more about the research he is most likely partaking in.

              • I HATE TMM. -- Somebody has to ;-)
                (Just added him to my friends list).
                [/offtopic]

                Anyway, the idea of a "Dell Linux" (MAC and OSX comes to mind), should be fairly easy. Team up with RedHat, or Debian, and make a custom build for your hardware. If the PC was 100 cheaper for the same stuff it would sell well, and because of the tight integration with the hardware the end user would have a better expeiance. The front end effort is not too much of an issue, and once done the drives are simply cloned anyway.

                R
    • Hmm, I guess that kind of thing happens in journalism (recycled stories). As the first poster, you seemed awfully eager to point it out to the world. Why not just fast forward to some other story that you are interested in instead of dwelling on the dupedness of this one?

      Regarding the topic of Linux-on-Dells, I would prefer to buy my desktops from a local supplier who makes them to order and has no problem leaving the OS to me. He runs a minimal WinXP OS to test the h/w and burn it in, then wipes it and

    • Didn't we discuss this over a month ago???

      More than once, many times.

      Your average user does no know regedit any better than vi, users don't give a rats ass about the details underneath as long as it works and isn't too touch to use, does not get infected daily and does not cost too much. Vendors like Dell are full of it as most of us know. They sell Linux in China but not in North Americas as not to piss off Microsoft. The sell Intel but not AMD as not to piss off Intel. Dell is NOT as Linux/UNIX fri

  • Nothing more than a PR stunt. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Mr. Darl McBride ( 704524 ) on Friday November 11, 2005 @01:34PM (#14009516)
    How can you tell? Well, for starters, you can buy the same system with a hard disk twice the size with a 17" LCD monitor and Windows Media Center Edition for the same price.

    More importantly, the 510n comes with an ATI card that will be difficult to get to work properly with X.org (dunno if Xi Graphics is still in business), whereas the 510 uses an Intel chipset that, while not great, will probably work better.

    And why not simply install a popular Linux distribution on it from the get go? They could "brand" it simply by adding a package with Dell-logo wallpapers, themes, and icon sets.

    Dell's just grubbing for some positive press.
    • Its more likely to protect themselves from some kind of legal action. They can claim now they sell more than one OS, and they sell AMD processors. Its totally bullshit, but they have plausable deniability.
    • Yes, Xi Graphics [xig.com] is still in business.

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • Probably because Dell offers phone support to it's customers, and windows helpdesk people are going to be MUCH cheaper than Linux helpdesk people.

        I am sorry, but I have to call BS on that one - the help desk people I have had to deal with know absolutely nothing about computers, they simply read from a screen, this need not change if a company offers Linux.

        Hardware manufacturers are totally dropping the ball here. Here you have a system that is freely re-distributable, anyone has the ability to re-desi

      • I used to work for a computer company in Raleigh, NC that was a Red Hat partner. They sold both boxed sets and preinstalls on servers and workstations, which was one of the reasons I went to work for them. They then opened an internet side business to increase volume and started dealing directly with MS. The short version of this story goes like this:

        - MS sends reps to educate the sales and tech staff, MS mousepads and stickers flow like water
        - MS gives conditional discounts on Windows and Office
        - Red Ha

  • Dell and Linux support (Score:5, Interesting)

    by unsung ( 10704 ) on Friday November 11, 2005 @01:35PM (#14009527) Journal
    Dell could never pre-install linux on their systems - unless if it was a paid version. If they did, they'd have to support it which would level their margins - if not pull it into the negative.

    • Re:Dell and Linux support (Score:4, Insightful)

      by external400kdiskette ( 930221 ) on Friday November 11, 2005 @01:40PM (#14009561)
      Support is probably the primary issue why Dell cant realistically start flogging Linux boxes to the general populace. When your selling the cheapest hardware at the cheapest price with low profit margins you cant really afford to lose any money because you have to support every clueless newbie whose never used anything other than Windows and cant understand why his bloody activex banking sites will never load on his new pc.
      • I don't know, but it seems like Redhat or Novell might be willing to make some sort of deal that included helping Dell support machines with their OS installed, if Dell paid some license fee.

        I'd bet the real issue is that there isn't enough demand, or at least Dell is calculating that they aren't seeing enough demand to warrant making deals with Redhat/Novell/whoever.

        Either way, I'm not sure why this prevents them from dumping a Linux version on there, and inserting a disclaimer that they won't support so

      • My job got me a linux laptop from dell years ago (about 5 years back I guess) so they used to do it (it was a dell inspiron with a redhat install). I'm not sure why they stopped.
    • Dell could never pre-install linux on their systems - unless if it was a paid version. If they did, they'd have to support it which would level their margins - if not pull it into the negative.

      It would be nice if Dell did preload Linux simply because that would be there way of saying that this version of Linux is certified by us to run on this unmodified system.

      After all, that's one of my main arguments for buying Dell -- the fact that they build 10's of thousands of the same configuration of PC, and ca

    • Re:Dell and Linux support (Score:5, Interesting)

      by nickos ( 91443 ) on Friday November 11, 2005 @02:05PM (#14009819)
      Also bear in mind the Windows licensing agreements that OEMs have to agree to. Here's an old but very relevant artice: He Who Controls the Bootloader [birdhouse.org]

      In the 1998-1999 timeframe, ready to prime the pump with their desktop offering, Be offered BeOS for free to any major computer manufacturer willing to pre-install BeOS on machines alongside Windows. Although few in the Be community ever knew about the discussions, Gassée says that Be was engaged in enthusiastic discussions with Dell, Compaq, Micron, and Hitachi. Taken together, pre-installation arrangements with vendors of this magnitude could have had a major impact on the future of Be and BeOS. But of the four, only Hitachi actually shipped a machine with BeOS pre-installed. The rest apparently backed off after a closer reading of the fine print in their Microsoft Windows License agreements. Hitachi did ship a line of machines (the Flora Prius) with BeOS pre-installed, but made changes to the bootloader -- rendering BeOS invisible to the consumer -- before shipping. Apparently, Hitachi received a little visit from Microsoft just before shipping the Flora Prius, and were reminded of the terms of the license.

  • Sadly, not likely to happen soon (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 11, 2005 @01:36PM (#14009531)
    We live in a capitalistic society (especially here in the "United" States). Since M$ can apply large amounts of financial pressure against vendors by saying, "if you pre-install Linux at any large scale, we'll pull our preferred customer discount for your OEM Windows prices", they effectively can coerce third party vendors to ignore Linux on a large scale.

    What is *needed* is a start-up company to get capital venture funding and start a hardware store to compete with the likes of Dell... but to ONLY use Open-Source, and spend their captial funding on ADVERTISEMENT of the advantages of FOSS.

    Something like a televised "Get the Factual Facts"...

    I'd buy a computer from that kind of company on principle, and I'd CERTAINLY suggest that my less-than-technically-saavy friends would do the same.

    G.B.Y.L.B.T.,
    PastorEd
    • They already did this in the 1990s against OEMs who loaded OS/2 and were (slightly) penalized for it.
    • I think that Microsoft "preferred customer" claim is widely overstated. I know everyone *wants* to believe that evil MS holds a gun to the heads of the various systems vendors, but in reality how much leverage do they really have. I have heard OEM license numbers as low as $30 for XP Home. It retails for $99 - so the total spread is $70. I know margins are tight, but will $70 (assuming the mfg ends up paying retail, which is unlikely) really make that much difference? And realistically the difference betwee

      • Re:Sadly, not likely to happen soon (Score:4, Funny)

        by mooingyak ( 720677 ) on Friday November 11, 2005 @02:02PM (#14009791)
        I have heard OEM license numbers as low as $30 for XP Home. It retails for $99 - so the total spread is $70. I know margins are tight, but will $70 (assuming the mfg ends up paying retail, which is unlikely) really make that much difference?

        $70 makes no difference whatsoever. Consumers are always happy to pay an extra $70. They often complain that prices are too low.
      • You'd be surprised. From Michael's Minute (former CEO of Lindows) [michaelrobertson.com] (so you know where his biases lie)

        When you sum these amounts (MDP, per computer kickbacks and Microsoft Office pricing), it's obvious that a significant amount of Dell's profitability is tied to Microsoft's largess. It's impossible to know precisely how much, but if you do the math and assume that it's $30 per computer from those various sources, that would yield $200 million or more than 25% of Dell's profitability. It could be more or le

    • Since M$ can apply large amounts of financial pressure against vendors by saying, "if you pre-install Linux at any large scale, we'll pull our preferred customer discount for your OEM Windows prices",

      That's not exactly how they phrase it. What they do say is if you buy x number less than you're buying now, and x is a very small number, we're cutting your discount to Y, much smaller discount. It's a subtle but significant difference as saying it your way might land them in hot water for price fixing. On

    • I think it was called at various times VA Linux [yahoo.com] and VA Research with among others Larry Augustine in the executive's seat and Eric Raymond in the board room.

      You may have heard, they had a boffo IPO and aqcuired big funding to do just this. Soon there after they had a board meeting and decided they couldn't actually make any money selling Linux boxen, abandoned the entire business plan they'd sold to Wall Street and on which investors invested so heavily. Last I heard they sell niche software development t
      • I think it was called at various times VA Linux and VA Research with among others Larry Augustine in the executive's seat and Eric Raymond in the board room.

        YHBT YHL HAND -- I think.

        I mean, think about it: Anonymous Coward writes about getting "capital venture" funding to compete with Dell, and spend lots of money advertising about open source, and who would "CERTAINLY" advice his friends to buy from such a company. Posted on Slashdot, which is part of OSDN/OSTG, which is, (surprise!) a subsidiary of VA So
        • Not sure I follow your conspiracy theory. I don't think VA, OSDN or Slashdot is likely to try to milk that cow again.

          I'm pretty sure Taco, Augustine and Raymond all got their FU money and I doubt they would try to run the same scam again.
    • What is *needed* is a start-up company to get capital venture funding and start a hardware store to compete with the likes of Dell... but to ONLY use Open-Source, and spend their captial funding on ADVERTISEMENT of the advantages of FOSS.

      This was VA Linux's business model rather a long time ago. (They might have been VA Research at the time. I forget the relative time line.) They got stomped like narcs at a biker rally.

      Cheers,
      Richard

  • Tax privatization (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Coeurderoy ( 717228 )
    We did discuss this recently, and "obviously nothing changes :-)" You might want to look at the work of the group to remove the "private microsoft tax " on PC. (most of the content is in french but at least you have an english Intro) https://www2.aful.org/sections/wikis/detaxe/GdTDet axeEnglish/cps_wiki_pageview [aful.org] It is interesting to notice that the same IT vendors that are yelling against levy on harddisk and usb memory sticks to manage the rights of copyright owners, and prefer to push DRMS (with all the

  • The real problem (Score:5, Insightful)

    by PatrickThomson ( 712694 ) on Friday November 11, 2005 @01:41PM (#14009574)
    Have you ever set up a brand new dell for someone? There's so much shitware installed, free trials of dvd players, etc, etc, that it's faster to format and reinstall straight away than to uninstall it all. Each of those bits of bundled wankware earns dell money, it more than offsets the XP bulk license cost.

    What would be good is a way to buy a dell and immediately sell the license on to a reseller.

    • Re:The real problem (Score:2, Informative)

      by Trevahaha ( 874501 )
      I don't know about you, but have bought two Dells in the last year and they didn't have any of that crap on it. Most of the time you can specify that when you customize your system... maybe it's because I was getting a higher-end system, who knows. But the only thing they had on it "extra" was the Dell Media Experience (at my request). (And of course all the system drivers for my hardware)
      • The low end Dimensions have it. AOL, Earthlink, tons of 'trial' software. Craptastic Norton. I wipe out a lot when setting stuff up.
      • The Small Business computers tend to have less crapware then the Home computers. Similar system, different prices, different crapware.

        I ended up buying a Home system because it was $100 less then the comparable Small Business system with some rebate magic. I did not have any option to NOT receive the crapware on the system.

        I have "Paint Shop Pro" and "Paint Shop Pro Album" links leftover all over the place.
    • Good point I think. Actually don't know--too busy laughing at "wankware". I have GOT to use that in a sentence today.
    • What would be good is a way to buy a dell and immediately sell the license on to a reseller.

      Unfortunately, you can't resell the license. That's forbidden. OEM Windows licenses are require to stay (and die) with the machine with which they were sold.

  • It's hard... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by pr0nbot ( 313417 ) on Friday November 11, 2005 @01:43PM (#14009589)
    I bought a PC recently. Part of the justification was that I would finally get round to setting up a Linux desktop and configure it just the way I want.

    But all the distros I've tried so far have had hardware issues that I consider pretty fundamental to a desktop. RedHat - getting nvidia graphics installed to run Doom3. SuSE - intermittent sound and wifi issues. Ubuntu - screen resolution issues, sound issues, unremembered wifi config. (Knoppix is next, fingers crossed.)

    I can solve all of these, by getting down and hacking the config files, but the fact that these mature and well-backed distros don't Just Work illustrates the fact that getting a Linux desktop distro to work is a non-trivial job, and I'm not surprised PC manufacturers aren't interested in doing it and supporting it.

    I don't know what the answer is - some of these distros are backed by big companies. It's a shame IBM didn't do a distro when they had a hardware division, I think it'll takes someone who does software and hardware (like Apple) to really get it right, sell you a machine that just works.
    • If you're having trouble getting the driver to work, make sure that you have SELinux disabled. Once I did that, I didn't have any trouble getting doom3 running on fedora.
    • Knoppix is a lifesaver for troubleshooting. It has saved me several times when trying to easily rescue files off of a borked box.

    • Re:It's hard... (Score:3, Informative)

      by IANAAC ( 692242 )

      But all the distros I've tried so far have had hardware issues that I consider pretty fundamental to a desktop. RedHat - getting nvidia graphics installed to run Doom3. SuSE - intermittent sound and wifi issues. Ubuntu - screen resolution issues, sound issues, unremembered wifi config. (Knoppix is next, fingers crossed.)

      Sigh...

      Look, if you had just regular WinXP SP2 media, you'd run into the very same issues when loading the OS. You pretty much have to go out and get drivers for anything non-vanill

    • It's easy if you're a manufacturer, cos you can just get one Deep Geek to rig it all up for you on one machine of each type, then copy the image to all the other machines. Which is what they do with Windows, in fact.

    • Re:It's hard... (Score:2, Interesting)

      by JPriest ( 547211 )
      Dell pays ~$35 for a copy of Windows, then they get paid to bundle things like AOL, RealPlayer, Mcafee etc. with it. What you have now is a cost of around $30 for something they are charging the consumer a significant amount more for.

      With some of the low end PC's ($350 w/ printer & monitor), you could probably argue that if not for the marked up cost of Windows that comes with it, they would be selling the hardware stand-alone at a loss.

      If they pushed Linux, they would have to adopt a similar licens

      • Damn few of you, there are...

      • The first time some Linux user called tech support for a $300 linux machine, there goes their profit on that sale.

        Taking your logic into the market [tigerdirect.com] it's a miracle that Linspire are surviving.. and that HP even dare. [infoworld.com]

        Come to think of it, how do all these guys [tuxmobil.org] do it?

        Soon enough, a thread will emerge here with a seemingly unlimited supply logical reasoning accounting for the success of $VENDOR's Linux PC/Laptop.

    • Re:It's hard... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by nine-times ( 778537 )
      But all the distros I've tried so far have had hardware issues that I consider pretty fundamental to a desktop. RedHat - getting nvidia graphics installed to run Doom3. SuSE - intermittent sound and wifi issues. Ubuntu - screen resolution issues, sound issues, unremembered wifi config. (Knoppix is next, fingers crossed.)

      Notice that all of these issues are with individual components, by which I mean that they're just driver issues. In another way of looking at it, it's not a Dell or a SuSE issue so much as

    • Consider building your own system. Linux kernel hackers code fast and furiously, but they can't type fast enough to keep up with new hardware. Pre-built systems use "new" hardware, so the odds of getting hardware with specs newer than the release of Linux you're using are high. Heck, I once bought a computer that had newer hardware than what was listed on its packaging!

      You avoid this when you build your own system because you get to be in control of what hardware is used. This doesn't mean you have to use o
    • I think a good solution would be for some of our opensource brethren to start a OEM Linux site that has easy to install images for OEM branded computers. Once you had one set up for a particular machine and all of the dependancies ironed out, all that someone would have to do would be download an install cd image, and boot with it. It could wipe the drive and install a fully working version of linux, or install it as a dual boot. Not nearly as easy as pre-installed linux, but it would fix all of the inst
  • ...its a problem of the huge kick back Microsoft gives the PC maker for preinstalling Windows. This Kickback translates into a discount on the hardware for the customer. Microsoft mentally writes it off as the "handle" so they can sell the customer more "blades" later.
    • It's not just Microsoft giving kickbacks. Have you seen all the crap that comes "pre-installed" with a name brand PC? Each vendor paid something to get their icon on the desktop.

      In fact, ($Windows - $crapware) might be a negative number, which might make a Windows box cheaper to make for the manufacturer than a no-os system.

  • Why buy a Dell? (Score:4, Informative)

    by CyricZ ( 887944 ) on Friday November 11, 2005 @01:45PM (#14009608)
    Why would I want to buy one of these Dells when Sun is offering affordable workstations that use higher-quality and higher-performance Opteron processors? And not only that, but the Sun workstations are supported very well by Solaris, as well as Linux, FreeBSD, Windows, and a multitude of other operating systems.

    While I do have fond memories of Dell UNIX back in the early 1990s, I would not purchase their Linux-based systems today, just because the competition (ie. Sun) offers far superior products.

    • Re:Why buy a Dell? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      If you want to compare workstations look at Dell's Precision line, don't compare it too a Dimension. A Precision 670 Dual Processor Dual Core system can come from the factory with RHEL4 WS if you like. These are very good systems and they will run Solaris/FreeBSD as well and run High Quality Intel Processors on High Quality Intel Motherboards.

      These stations are highly configurable and customizable to the task you want to perform. Whether it is Finance, Engineering, Video Editing (Avid) or 2D/3D Artistry.

      Del
      • I do not use any distro from Red Hat. I tried FC4 a short while back, and the installer crashed. That was on a machine that runs OpenBSD, Solaris and Ubuntu perfectly. Needless to say, that server is back on OpenBSD, and chugging along.

        I would be more inclined to purchase such systems from Dell if they bundled a Linux distribution such as SuSE or Kubuntu, rather than a product from Red Hat. I have had nothing but bad experiences with Red Hat products.

        The same goes for HP. While I might not buy their worksta

  • ..software licensing costs could be minimized..

    If software licensing costs could be minimized then software revenue would be minimized.

    Why would a software corporation engage in an activity where revenue would be minimized?

    Answer: he wouldn't if he wanted to keep his job for long. The shareholders wouldn't stand for it.

    Maybe the People's Repuplic Of Chiner will front the software.

  • Old Story, and answer is still the same. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by CDPatten ( 907182 ) on Friday November 11, 2005 @01:46PM (#14009622) Homepage
    Dell has low prices because of large production lines. A small change in the line changes the price radically. The reason the Linux machines aren't as cheap is because so few are purchased. Also Dell gets money (savings get passed to consumer) from software companies promoting their product on WINDOWS, and their aren't many (if ANY) that do that for the Linux machines.

    This is a lame conspiracy theory, and frankly makes the Linux crowd seem desperate. I'm not trolling, but you can't honestly think this is anything other then a wild attempt to explain slower then expected adoption rates.

    The reason it is more expensive has to do with economics of supply and demand, volume, etc. How this got put on the front page TWICE in such a short period of time really blows my mind.

    Last Time: http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/10/ 05/1240206&tid=137 [slashdot.org]
    • The reason it is more expensive has to do with economics of supply and demand, volume, etc.

      Maybe you could explain why they have to charge a HIGHER price on a computer if they had to invest LESS money on it? A $0 licence fee is always cheaper than a $10 "discount" fee.

      I don't think this is a real supply-demand issue, but rather pressure from big corporations such as Microsoft, with secret agreements to hinder the distribution of Linux systems. Oh, you sell Linux systems cheaper than your Windows systems? F
      • Maybe you could explain why they have to charge a HIGHER price on a computer if they had to invest LESS money on it? A $0 licence fee is always cheaper than a $10 "discount."

        Dell transformed direct Windows sales and just-in-time manufacturing into an art form. The Fredos box that sits on a warehouse pallete costs them money.

    • How this got put on the front page TWICE in such a short period of time really blows my mind.
      Is a month and six days really "such a short period of time"? Besides, I didn't see this article the first time around. Does it really cause you that much anguish when a story is repeated?
  • *note: I'm not looking to flame/troll, this is just my $0.02. You have been warned*

    didn't anyone notice that to OEMs, Windows costs about $10 a pop?
    Also, setting up Windows on different hardware configurations is pretty simple - download driver, point and click. Linux is very close most of the time, but too often it requires mucking about with drivers and whatnot - that increases the OEM's cost of setting up Linux for every configuration.
    In other words, instead of paying $10 per windows license, they're pay

  • Paying more for a free OS (Score:3, Interesting)

    by djbckr ( 673156 ) on Friday November 11, 2005 @01:47PM (#14009639)
    I recently bought a computer from HP that I intended to put Linux on. It was a nice, cheap computer (it suited my needs). I asked if they could sell it to me without Windows on it (they would put FreeDOS on it). Turns out I would have had to pay about $200 more for it, because of the "discount structure". Go figure...
  • ...its a matter of the huge kick back Microsoft gives the PC macker for preinstalling Windows.

    This translates into a discount on the hardware for the customer.

    Microsoft mentally writes it it off as the "Handle" so they can sell the Customer more "Blades" later.

    Same concept as Razors, Game Consoles, Cell Phones....

    With out that kickback the PC maker has to charge more for the hardware...

    Anyone who denies the Microsoft Kick back doesn't happen is just deluding themselves. The Kickback is usually represented as "marketing" funds on the balance sheet.
    • ...its a matter of the huge kick back Microsoft gives the PC macker for preinstalling Windows.

      Talk of kickbacks is for losers.

      Dell or Walmart can casually place an order for three million widescreen laptops from a single Chinese OEM knowing that the default Win MCE install will sell every damn one of them.

      There is the prospect of very healthy aftermarket sales of Windows software, hardware and peripherals, including the XBox 360 (with no need to maintain a seperate Linux inventory.)

      There is the potentia

    • Version 1 [slashdot.org]

      Version 2 [slashdot.org]

      I'm experiencing a sense of deja vu here.
  • And discuss it at length on Slashdot [slashdot.org].

    Its so simple, really.
    1) Go to www.google.com
    2) enter "dell freedos site:slashdot.org", click search
    3) de-dupe!
  • They also sell Precision Workstation w/ the option of having Redhat Workstation preinstalled.
    • I just opened up thier small business page and tried to look at the price of workstations with linux instead of windows xp, and could not get an option to add the red hat installation to the workstation. is there something special you have to do?

      getting one of those would be neat.
  • Good

    Review

    but

    a

    hassle

    to

    read.

    Maybe with Web 2.0 someone will invent a way to put more than two paragraphs of text on a single web page.

  • How about an equivalent hardware "open source" processor (read AMD) choice in your Dell hardware. Especially now that you're selling the AMD processors themselves! [dell.com]

    Otherwise this just comes across as a slimy legal trick to aid Intel in their defense against AMD's lawsuit.

  • They dont WANT lower prices (Score:3, Interesting)

    by mfifer ( 660491 ) on Friday November 11, 2005 @01:51PM (#14009689)
    would theoretically allow the manufacturer to lower the cost of a computer

    They don't WANT to lower prices...

    "Dell discounted low-end products too aggressively" [cnn.com]

    They'll be happy if /.ers buy N systems -- extra $$$ for Dell!

    • Dell discounted low-end products too aggresssively

      Walmart has much the same problem.

      The poor, under stress, aren't buying PCs at any price. The middle class takes one look at the s***t which passes for OEM Linux and spends their money on the midline Dell or HP at Target.

  • Non-Dell Companies selling Linux (and No OS) (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 11, 2005 @01:56PM (#14009737)
    http://www.addonshop.com/ [addonshop.com]
    http://www.emperorlinux.com/ [emperorlinux.com]
    http://www.ibexpc.com/ [ibexpc.com]
    http://www.linare.com/ [linare.com]
    http://www.linspire.com/ [linspire.com]
    http://www.linuxcertified.com/ [linuxcertified.com]
    http://www.microtelpc.com/ [microtelpc.com]
    http://www.outpost.com/ [outpost.com]
    http://shoprcubed.com/ [shoprcubed.com]
    http://www.sub300.com/ [sub300.com]
    http://www.systemax.com/divisions.htm [systemax.com]
    http://www.walmart.com/ [walmart.com]
    http://www.xandros.com/ [xandros.com]

    http://tuxmobil.org/reseller.html [tuxmobil.org]
    http://www.us.debian.org/distrib/pre-installed [debian.org]
    http://www.linux.org/vendor/system/index.html [linux.org]

    http://tuxmobil.org/ [tuxmobil.org] (general information)

    No OS

    (Sabio made by Quanta, like Dell-latitudes)
    http://www.avadirect.com/ [avadirect.com]
    http://www.asimobile.com/ [asimobile.com]
    http://www.powernotebooks.com/ [powernotebooks.com]

  • The Dell trap (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Spy der Mann ( 805235 )
    a) They sell you expensive Intel chips.
    b) They sell you an expensive Microsoft Operating System.

    Dell needs to realize that they could sell you a cheap AMD system with Linux installed. Given the variety on AMD chips, they could sell you low-end "desktops" or high-end "workstations".
    • Do you realize that both Intel and Microsoft *pay Dell* cash-money to front their stuff?

      It's called Marketing Incentives. That little Intel jingle? Or the Intel symbol? Put it in an advert, get $$$ from Intel (... so long as you only sell Intel). Put a 'Designed for Windows XP' sticker on a case, get $$$ from Microsoft ( ... so long as you only sell Microsoft). Sell AMD or non-MS operating systems, and Dell loses millions of dollars in incentives. So the marginal cost of selling other stuff is very high.

      Whe

  • PDA effect or discouraging Linux? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jav1231 ( 539129 ) on Friday November 11, 2005 @02:04PM (#14009799)
    I could humorously say this the PDA effect. It seems any PDA that runs Linux is instantly more expensive than its CE counterpart and only available in Asia.
    I wonder, though, if this is part of Dell just doing this to say they offer Linux. I imagine their agreement with Microsoft requires them to attach a Windows license to the machine thus keeping the price structure equal to their other PC's. Either way it really sucks. OEM's need to start telling Microsoft to kiss off in situations like this. If Dell, HP, Toshiba, and the like did this it would go along way in helping level the playing field. I know, I know, where's the incentive?

  • Windows costs (Score:3, Insightful)

    by porkface ( 562081 ) on Friday November 11, 2005 @02:07PM (#14009829) Journal
    The cost (to Dell) of Windows licenses will rise substantially if Dell starts (really) offering systems without Windows. Don't you people know anything about monopo-nomics?

  • Every day it seems like there's a new link to xyzcomputing, which is possibly the most uninformative and sophomoric tech site in existence. Without exception, every link he's posted to their crappy site has been either A) dumb and uninteresting or B) a repeat of a previous Slashdot post as well as dumb and uninteresting.

    Here is the text of an email I just shot off to Zonk, i'll be curious to see if I get a response:

    Zonk,

    At a frequency which is RIDICULOUS, you post links to xyzcomputing.net on the Sl

  • There's no shortage of system builders willing to sell you a no-OS system. Or even a linux-equipped laptop or desktop.

    Why is it Dell *has* to sell Linux? Just go somewhere else. The whole "microsoft-evil-empire" argument doesn't work here.

    There's a list of OEM's a mile long that sell product around the world, why are their products better if/when they are sold through Dell?

    The same kind of discussion happens around itunes DRM. I choose not to have DRM in my life, so I make different choices. Make a di
  • "The N line is something which Dell began to sell recently, but the situation is much more complex that it would seem."

    Dell has had the N line for at least 2 years now - We have a couple N systems in the office that were bought in '03. I think it's just that they've gotten more notoriety lately, so people think they are new.
  • * They will actually have to have skilled support people to support Linux.

    * If any non-techie type buys the computer the support costs will be higher simply because of the non-familiarity issues.

    * As soon as they try installing windows software they will call support. (Though they can upsell Crossover, Win4lin, etc. in that case so it can be a win)

  • Software vendors pay Dell et al to put crippled versions of their software on Windows PC's. Part of the reason for an increased cost of a Windows-free PC is the lack of these subsidies.
    • Keep in mind that any time an IBM-compatible motherboard and hard drive are sold together, be it in a PC or not, that Microsoft gets a royalty. They get this even if you don't install their OS. Just another way that the Borg Collective is out to assimilate you.

      2 cents,

      Queen B
  • I recently purchased one of Dell's N series for a client. It came with a complimentary copy of Windows XP Professional and no FreeDOS in the box.

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