Stopping Linux Desktop Adoption Sabotage 616
Mark Brunelli, News Editor writes "Outspoken IT consultant John H. Terpstra believes that Microsoft and electronics manufacturers are working together to hinder the adoption of Linux on the desktop. In a three part series, he tells a story about how two guys trying to buy Linux desktops found they were overpriced, and lacked certain tools. He then describes how Microsoft uses its considerable resources and the law to create such roadblocks. (Part 2, Part 3)"
So your company is being overcharged to fail? (Score:3, Interesting)
This would be worthy of Federal Prosecution.
HP Website not all that linux-friendly (Score:5, Interesting)
It went something like this...
I started customizing the zv6000 laptop, choosing XP Home, knowing that I probably wouldn't get reasonable tech support without having it installed (never mind that there wasn't an option to not get it). As I got to the end, I looked around for a way to request custom partitioning of the hard drive. No dice. So I cancelled the order and wrote to HP Shopping and asked if they could do a custom partitioning job because I wanted to create a dual-boot system.
The response I got was that they couldn't do it and that they were sorry the web site didn't suit my needs.
I responded by asking if they could sell me a blank laptop and provide the installation media on the side, since it was included, and I didn't feel like trying to reinstall the recovery partition for Windows. This is why you don't get installation media... they put it all on a partition on the hard drive that only the Windows installer can use.
Their reply was that they were contractually obligated to sell the laptop with the latest version of Windows installed.
So I told them that they just lost a sale because of their contractual obligations, and that I would take my money elsewhere.
So they replied again with how they were sorry that the website didn't suit my needs and that they would notify the appropriate people.
Now they've pushed my buttons... so I tell them that this is not about a web site, it's about a person sitting there running an FDISK command and watching the install take place instead of just using a ghosting program. I also tell them that I would've been willing to wait an extra couple of weeks, knowing I was asking for a truly customized job.
In the end, I did get an HP laptop, but got it from CompUSA. I got the HP L2000, and for about $40, the tech desk people there were able to do the customized partitioning job for me, reinstall the version of Windows that came with it, and leave me with blank, unformatted partitions to use for Fedora Core 4 x86_64. The tech guys there knew exactly what I wanted to do, understood it, and thought it was really cool. Yes, I need ndiswrappers to get the wireless card to work, and I have to download a driver for the ATI graphics card in there (both are available via a yum archive at livna.org).
Now if only we could get Macromedia to release a 64-bit version of the flash player and Sun to do a 64-bit verison of Java... (yes, I know about the OSS alternatives... doesn't change the fact that they need to do it).
Why do we still post this garbage? (Score:5, Interesting)
The author says we should believe: "Obviously, there are forces at work in the IT industry that cause retailers to choose not to participate in being more profitable." Right. Global conspiracy, obvious. Try again. The only thing that is really obvious is that the course of action he is suggesting (selling Linux systems in mass market brick and mortar retailers) is deemed unprofitable for these stores.
Sure, Walmart sells Linux. But only online, not brick and mortar.
Re:HP Website not all that linux-friendly (Score:5, Interesting)
Is HP right for not including REAL Windows install disks?? NO. HP should realize....hard disks fail. To a regular AOL/Joe Sixpack type of user, mailing the laptop back to HP or taking it to a service center is perfectly acceptable when replacing a hard disk. To us, we look on it as a opportunity to upgrade the feeble disk it came with. In any case, HP and many other manufacturers SHOULD ship REAL install media....not this crap that accesses a windows recovery partition. They should also stop shipping SPYWARE with there machine as well.
HP's website itself works FINE in Firefox. The website itself is Linux friendly. Not being able to ship you a custom solution should not be a judgement of thier site. Face it....Windows DOES have the marketshare. If you don't like the website that they make you use, then you are free to go to a dealer that IS able to satisfy you. Being mad at them because they won't do your custom job is stupid. Finding a manufacturer that will do whaty you want and supporting them rather then HP is the sure fire way to get HP to change thier ways. What you did by buying from them anyway is VALIDATE thier planning! If a company can't do what I want, I tell them to pound sand.
Re:HP Website not all that linux-friendly (Score:3, Interesting)
I promptly ditched XP Home and installed XP Pro, and then wrote to HP support asking them if it was possible to resize the partitions on the disk to dual boot with Linux, and while they told me they don't support it, they did give me instructions for how to do it, with the caveat that I would be on my own if I ran such a configuration, which was fine, and doing this didn't affect my warranty in any way.
Given that they don't provide Linux, I don't expect them to support it, although I wish it were an option and that they would offer it along with support for whatever version of Linux they decide to provide. On the whole, it was a positive experience and I was happy with the purchase decision.
Another bit of FUD here... (Score:4, Interesting)
Micrsoft is hindering Linux on the desktop? Excuse me while I laugh myself into an asthma fit.
The regular slew of updates to KDE ALONE will screw up the average KDE installation bad enough and quick enough to make you want to strangle everyone who works on it. Gnome which is supposed to be so much less cool than KDE is five times more stable in my experience and two times less useful. Of course so is a hammer by comparison to a vertical knee mill but at least the hammer does what it is designed to.
I use Fedora Core 3 as my regular desktop and only log into XP when I have an absolute need. I've made Quake run with sound in less than an hour USING the idiotically bad and largely conflicting and contradictory documentation on the net (woot! I can translate geekoid!). I got SSH working with public keys in ten minutes. I regularly customize my FC3 boxes and rework them rather than the lazier nuke and pave method. So... I am not a Windows newbie-to-Linux here.
The ONLY thing killing Linux on the desktop is Linux. XOrg and XFree86 and their ongoing back and forth pecadillos, KDE's zealot army of moronic children screaming the leetness of their preference, Gnome's less than stellar array of boosters, and both desktops' having little to no clue towards stability and regularity are merely the tip of the iceberg. The neverending foreverwar over what goes in the kernel, the endless bs of how drivers and hardware abstraction should work, the "ooh isn't this cool" phenomenon of distros spreading like mold based on their purveyors' egotistical desire to have some note in the history of Linux... All of this and more is what is killing Linux on the desktop.
It's like the movie Braveheart. The penguin sallies forth to do battle with the incredible menace and its own supporters backstabbing, squabbling, infighting, and inability to arrive at a common vision and stick with it do it in. Penguin meat anyone?
I want hardware, not software (Score:3, Interesting)
I couldn't care less how much linux is on the shelf at best buy. I'm a BSD guy by choice, so I wouldn't have a use for it anyway. Put all the Windows software on the shelf you want, I don't care.
I want hardware that will work. When I want a wireless adapter for my laptop I want it today, with no hassles otherwise I'd buy it mail order. So I often find myself in Best Buy looking at some box, and wondering if it will work on my system.
My solution: research. First I find out what will work with BSD, and what will not. Then I go in, and buy something that will not. Open the box, installed it and play a little, and sure enough, it won't work with BSD - return it. Buy the part that does work. I'm doing my best to make it expensive to stock hardware that isn't BSD compatible.
Re:Hardware Makers (Score:5, Interesting)
Let's assume that you make hardware. You have a lot of competition, and you have 10% of the market. Nobody offers Linux drivers. All of a sudden, you decide to offer the drivers, and your market share goes up to 12%. All of a sudden, Linux has added 20% to your business.
If you are a monopoly, then you have little to gain. If you are a fringe player, then Linux support can differentiate you from the pack.
Let's talk another benefit. If a person runs Linux, then there is a 95% probability that they are pretty good at technology. If you offer Linux drivers, all of a sudden you have made a friend
Re:Short version of this story (Score:3, Interesting)
"
The roadblock is money. There's no incentive to support a niche market for consumer hardware running Linux. It's not a conspiracy, just simple economics.
Re:Complaints (Score:3, Interesting)
Yeah, but when I, as a Linux user look at a fresh Windows install/reinstall I note a lot of things missing...
1) No decent photo editing software. Sorry, gotta pay extra for that, or download it. 2) No decent office suite. MS Office is an extra, that you have to pay for. 3) No decent web browser. Anyone who says that IE is decent deserves a punch in the mouth. 4) No video editing software. That's another extra you have to pay for with Windows. 5) IRC? Nope...gotta go download it somewhere. 6) CD/DVD burning software? Nope, gotta pay extra for that too. 7) Desktop publishing software. Yeah...gonna have to go to the store again... 8) Personal finance software. Oh great, gotta go to the store again.
This kind of stuff is pretty common on your basic Linux install, without adding new software.
And plug and play is more like "plug and pray" on Windows as you find yourself having to install various drivers for this and that. Sure, vendors provide a lot of support for Windows, providing drivers with hardware and such...but more stuff just plain works out of the box on Linux than with Windows. And it's less likely that you'll suddenly see hardware dropped from being supported on Linux.
The argument of "what's missing" can be applied both ways...and I think more is missing from Windows than from Linux.
Re:Not Forever (Score:3, Interesting)
How do you explain numbers like these? OS Platform Stats: [w3schools.com] XP with a 70% share, up 40% from March 2003. Linux and OSX at 3% each, no change.
About Time... (Score:5, Interesting)
But, I'm tired of being treated like I don't exist: Linux "made it" on my desktop years ago, has run for all of our family's needs (internet, chat, email, games, graphics design, programming, and YES office document use too!), will continue to "make it" on our desktops forever. And we're ALL sick of being discussed as if we were unicorns: "Do home Linux desktop users exist? No, that's just a fairy-tale. It's physically impossible to run Linux on a desktop, because it's just a teletype terminal you have to write the kernel from scratch every time you start it and it doesn't even use a monitor and mouse, it uses punched cards instead." This is all bandied about like it was common knowledge, taught at our universities, discussed with great seriousness in the tech publications, and carried as a confirmed opinion amongst many of my fellow Slashdotters, even.
If you can bear to have your whole reality re-defined, click here: http://www.lynucs.org/ [lynucs.org] . Behold: Linux desktops! Running on monitors! Note the "taskbar" on the bottom, JustLikeWindows. See the applications open on the desktop, they have a bar at the top with the little "x" thingie to close them and the little box thingie to full-screen them and they use jpg images for wallpaper, JustLikeWindows. Note the scrollbars on the sides of the windows, JustLikeWindows. Note the little icons that you click with the mouse to launch a program or open a file, JustLikeWindows.
Do you suppose, if they spend all this time making all this software...dozens of different window managers and hundreds of distros...that maybe, somewhere, just maybe, somebody could actually use them for anything, at all, at all?
So, the real story is, "Linux struggles daily against Microsoft to survive - and even thrive! - but we'd all be better off if there was less fighting in the world.", not "Linux has been killed by Microsoft. Alas, poor Tux, I knew him...almost." Get it right! Discuss us like we're dead, and we're likely to rise up and prove how alive we are!
Time for a change of name (Score:3, Interesting)
No one goes into a store and asks whether they stock "cola-based drinks", They ask for Coke, Pepsi, whatever. We'll know when Linux has really hit the highway when folks stop asking for "Linux", if they ever do, and start asking soley about a brand - Red Hat, Novell, Ubuntu, whatever. As yet I guess the main Linux outfits haven't really extended beyond IT industry workers and enthusiasts but their challenge is to ensure that they do.
Re:Not Forever (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Not Forever (Score:1, Interesting)
First off, RTFA. the guy in the article is saying that if you like Linux, and you want to buy a new computer with linux pre-installed, you can't do it. And its true. But he's also saying that part of the reason is that users are not walking into stores and asking for a computer loaded with linux.
As for it being hard, its not. Lets say I'm building 10 or 100 or 1000 identically configured computers. How many times do I have to install the OS? that's right, bozo, 1. Only once. why? because I install everything once, then make 'n' hard drive clones where 'n' is the number of machines I'm building. Does it matter if its Windows XP or Windows 2003 or Windows ME or Windows Vista or Suse Linux or Red Hat or Debian or whatever? No. in fact, having installed XP and installed Suse Linux I can say that the Linux was tons easier (and I'd never done it before either).
But, at the same time, its very hard for a retailer to do this if he can't get peripherals which will work with his Linux. But, if someone is willing to plop down $350 for the computer that costs him $200, sure he's willing to make sure that the peripherals will work on the damn computer.
ok. next gem of wisdom from the above:
And that is the point of Linux. DOING IT YOURSELF. This runs counter to the profitable (because it is logically in line with human nature) way of doing it for others for money. In fact, if everyone was capable of doing it themselves (which they aren't) and had the free time (which they don't) they probably would to save money. Of course, the same could be said on the subject of paying for oral sex or performing it on yourself.
100% wrong again. the point of Linux is not to do it yourself, this is not the Timex Sinclair or Apple I of operating systems. The point of Linux is to allow users of the x86 family of computers to use a Unix clone without having to pay tons of money for it. And, if the manufacturers of said computer were willing to spend no more or less time to install Linux as they spend installing Windows, then Linux pre-loaded computers would sit on the shelf right next to Windows pre-loaded computers, and at truly competitive (read lower) prices.
If everyone could do this, there'd not be a need for support techs. And actually, the same goes for Windows which although it is ten million times easier for the average starfish to deal with than ANY flavor of Unix still manages to flummox the majority enough to need... support techs.
again, untrue. in fact, it so untrue, that most people will, instead of buying a copy of Microsoft Vista, will either stay with XP (even if it annoys them) or simply REPLACE THEIR COMPUTER! Some, will buy a copy of Vista, spend 10-12 hours attempting to install it, then try and take it back, find that the company won't accept it, and then buy an new computer with Vista pre-loaded. (of course, the people doing this have more money than sense... but that was obvious)
In fact, the whole jist of what you are saying tells me two things. 1) you've never installed any flavor of Windows on a computer with no operating system. and 2) you've never installed any flavor of Linux on a computer with or without Windows pre-installed. If you've done both (and I have) you will change your tune real fast.
Re:Not Forever (Score:4, Interesting)
My point is that web apps free the user from the OS. The OS is still needed and I wasn't suggesting otherwise. The OS however becomes irrelevent when your cell phone can open a web based app just like a desktop with Windows can.
As for you second statement I believe you are again incorrect. Colleges are where Unix was more or less born. That didn't result in a mass migration. In fact the opposite happened at the same time most probably due to hardware expenses.Re:Complaints (Score:3, Interesting)
Most people I got so far that they want to try linux, don't want to completely rely on this OS that they have never used before. They want to be able to open/write their documents in their trusted environment anytime they feel alienated in the linux environment.
Re:Not Forever (Score:1, Interesting)
Yes, its wrong. Yes, something should be done about it because, quite frankly its disgusting. Imagine if this happened in any other industry. You go to the supermarket to buy some cereal, but there is only 1 brand. Its an OK brand, but you don't really like it. So you go to another supermarket - only to find they too only sell this 1 brand. You eventually find a corner shop that sells a cereal you like, but its 25 miles away. Then the supermarket buys out the corner shop.
Its all just so wrong on so many levels. Poor quality software, illegal business activities, its all like some mob out of film. They need to be knocked firmly into shape. Play nice, play fair, or get out of the ball park.
Re:Has made it? O.o (Score:1, Interesting)
I can boot a Kanotix CD, connect to the internet, and surf for info while installing Linux from the same CD. I can reboot (once!) after install, and if I break anything I can boot the live CD to fix/get repair info/whatever.
Re:Not Forever (Score:3, Interesting)
Just as important is what Linux can "see and touch". So I will put this very un-subtley: HCL! HCL! HCL! HCL! Live by your distro's Hardware Compatability List and demand Linux compatability before you buy. That kind of pressure is the only way we'll get hardware mfgs to back-off from their MS "special relationships", their Vista-Gfx cards, their WinCableModem cards, etc.
Someone recently asked me if Linux was compatible with the Internet... with a straight face. It was not a joke and I was mortified.
Here is one HCL site for starters. [linuxquestions.org] It's not great, but its a start anyway. XandrOS also has a decent list. People, this is just as important for gaining acceptance as the LSB; We can't pretend that Linux is just like Windows, that we can just buy the prettiest hardware on sale and wrestle it with Linux when we get home (or worse, in the office). Check compatability first!