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Open Source In Public Sector Meeting Opposition 425

Open Source movements have been gaining popularity everywhere, but not everyone is happy about that. Johans wrote to mention a ZDNet Asia story discussing a controversy within the Malaysian computer industry over the government's 'Public Sector Open Source Software Masterplan. From the article: " ... the government has stated that its first choice in IT procurement are infocomm technology solutions developed on the open-source platform. It states that 'in situations where advantages and disadvantages of open-source software (OSS) and proprietary software are equal, preference shall be given to OSS' ... However, some industry consortiums have stepped out to voice their concerns over this policy." Meanwhile, Anonymous Coward wrote to mention a Fox News article entitled 'Massachusetts Should Close Down OpenDocument', calling the attention of journalists to the 'huge mistake' that Massachusetts is making by switching to OpenDocument. From that article: "Officials in the state have proposed a new policy that mandates that every state technology system use only applications designed around OpenDocument file formats. Such a policy might seem like something that should concern only a small group of technology professionals, but in fact the implications are staggering and far-reaching. The policy promises to burden taxpayers with new costs and to disrupt how state agencies interact with citizens, businesses and organizations."
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Open Source In Public Sector Meeting Opposition

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  • How so? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by CSHARP123 ( 904951 ) on Thursday September 29, 2005 @10:35AM (#13675848)
    Meanwhile, Anonymous Coward wrote to mention a Fox News article entitled 'Massachusetts Should Close Down OpenDocument', calling the attention of journalists to the 'huge mistake' that Massachusetts is making by switching to OpenDocument. From that article: "Officials in the state have proposed a new policy that mandates that every state technology system use only applications designed around OpenDocument file formats. Such a policy might seem like something that should concern only a small group of technology professionals, but in fact the implications are staggering and far-reaching. The policy promises to burden taxpayers with new costs and to disrupt how state agencies interact with citizens, businesses and organizations."

    Does this Anonymous Coward has any studies done that show going towards Open document is a burden to tax payers? I can make a same clain without doing any studies. In the short term it may involve new costs but I think in the long term, it makes cheaper for not having to pay for commercial software licenses. This may be a benefit to the tax payers. How's that?

  • FOX... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by sedyn ( 880034 ) on Thursday September 29, 2005 @10:37AM (#13675874)
    FTfoxA: "Worse, the policy represents an attack on market-based competition, which in turn will hurt innovation."

    Yeah, open standards hurt innovation. You know, it's not like groups like ANSI exist to try to re-standardize fractured languages with open standards that have evolved quickly and represent what the people who are using the language want. But hey, it's not like any language with an open standard ever caught on (C, C++, LISP, Ruby, etc.)

    But you know, FOX most likely says that evolution is evil too. At least, as far as the public (schools) are involved...
  • Wake up call (Score:2, Interesting)

    by dancingmad ( 128588 ) on Thursday September 29, 2005 @10:39AM (#13675898)
    Hey you so called (politically) conservative geeks - here's a pretty blatant attempt by Fox news to pass of an industry slug as a journalist. Now think about Fox news doing that with the Israel/Palestine issue, covering any American Democrat, or any other international affair.

    In short, wake up - Fox "news" is feeding you B.S.
  • by Ukyo ( 21427 ) <rafaelbn AT gmail DOT com> on Thursday September 29, 2005 @10:42AM (#13675921) Homepage
    Jim Prendergast is executive director of Americans for Technology Leadership.

    Before everybody goes crazy about the Fox News article, consider the source. American for Tech Leadership is a what it amounts to a PAC for different tech companies. Guess who is one of their major contibutors??

    You guessed it, Microsoft.

    http://www.techleadership.org/about/ [techleadership.org]

    So don't act all surprised when you see what amounts to a Microsoft spokesperson saying that Open Source formats are going to "cost too much" or "take too much effort". Fox News should be ashamed to run this "ad" as a news story; but when I come to think of it, everybody else does it too.

  • by zappepcs ( 820751 ) on Thursday September 29, 2005 @10:43AM (#13675943) Journal
    pudding, so they say, and this type of FUD is proof (or close enough) for the State of Mass. to know that they are doing exactly the right thing. Despite the fact that it makes me giddy to see the MS machinations squeeling like stuck pigs, I think this sort of FUD, and the resultant outcries are just the thing that will slowly turn the world to look at F/OSS. This, I believe, is due to the fact that if F/OSS wasn't worth looking at, wasn't a threat to the juggernaut that is MS, then there would not be this outlandish FUD going on.

    While I feel sad that such pains must be endured, I'm glad to see the MS machine slowing down, losing some ground, and perhaps looking a bit pale in the face.
  • Relative FUD ? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Sad Loser ( 625938 ) * on Thursday September 29, 2005 @10:45AM (#13675957)

    the great thing about having an uncommon name like Ms Strzalkowski [tripod.com] quoted in the article, is that a quick Google search for Strzalkowski and Microsoft reveals a certain Tomek Strzalkowski [microsoft.com] who appears to be friendly with the Beast. I wonder if they know each other?
  • by Dino ( 9081 ) * on Thursday September 29, 2005 @11:01AM (#13676119) Homepage

    No where in the FOXNews.com article did James Prendergast list a specific complain against what OpenDocument doesn't have to offer. He has some quotes about how "[Open Office Calc] takes more than 100 times longer to create and load spreadsheet documents and why it uses up several more times memory that Microsoft Excel to work with the same data" and how "Microsoft keeps expanding into XML and metadata and OpenDocument may have trouble keeping up." If you read the article, you get this feeling this guy is a frothing, super-capitalist munchdog who really rates communism. Those FASCISTS!

    Seriously though, my take is that "open" standards foster competition but can supress innovation when they are unable to grow and adapt. I'm not familiar enough with OpenDocument to really comment, but I do wonder how it stacks up, feature and architecture-wise against say WordOffice/PDF. Is OpenDocument really that far away from XML and metadata? Seriously...

  • by pivo ( 11957 ) on Thursday September 29, 2005 @11:07AM (#13676163)
    From http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=America ns_for_Technology_Leadership [sourcewatch.org]

    Americans for Technology Leadership was founded by Jonathan Zuck in 1999 as a "grassroots" organisations for concerned consumers who want less regulation in the technology sector. It also campaigns on general tech issues such as spam.

    It has been frequently described as a Microsoft front group.

    ATL's domain name, techleadership.org, is registered to the Association for Competitive Technology. The site is hosted by Thomas E. Stock and Thomas J. Synhorst's LLC, TSE Enterprises. Synhorst is a founding member of the DCI Group, a Washington DC-based strategic consulting and lobbying firm which has counted Microsoft as a prime client for a number of years.
  • by nurhussein ( 864532 ) on Thursday September 29, 2005 @11:11AM (#13676203) Homepage
    I live in Malaysia, and have followed this debate for a while.

    "Our views as represented by Pikom, are that the government should not dictate which development model--OSS or commercial--should be the preference for procurement," said Peter Moore, Microsoft's general manager for public policy, Asia-Pacific and Greater China.

    As you can see from the evidence here, the voice that's being heard "through Pikom" is actually Microsoft's.

    If the government chooses to move to an OSS operating system like Linux, Microsoft loses control over us. Malaysian application software developers actually have nothing to fear, because the govt is not going to lock out closed-source. It'll just have a preference for OSS programs if it fulfills the same function as a closed-sourced one. Meaning, locally developed custom apps are always going to be better-suited to the customer (the government), open or closed source. However, if Linux or FreeBSD got around to being the standard underlying operating system, Microsoft and its cronies would lose out big time, as it would lose it's control (but we would get our sovereignity, so who cares about Microsoft).
  • by pete6677 ( 681676 ) on Thursday September 29, 2005 @11:14AM (#13676241)
    Microsoft clearly sees OSS as a competitive threat, otherwise they would not be sponsoring shill groups to defend them. I wouldn't say Microsoft is going down the tubes quite yet, but people are starting to look for alternatives. Their anti-open-source FUD is starting to work against them rather than for them.
  • by onwardknave ( 533210 ) on Thursday September 29, 2005 @11:26AM (#13676374)
    I'm a Massachusetts taxpayer, and I am quite pleased to see my tax dollars going to fund something which will be quite useful down the road. The cost is trivial compared to what was lost through the Big Dig cronyism. Priorities, people!
  • by Mr.Surly ( 253217 ) on Thursday September 29, 2005 @11:29AM (#13676434)
    Rather than asking "Is it a good idea to use an open file format not supported by our current software (Microsoft)?" they should be asking "Why don't Microsoft programs support an open file format?"
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 29, 2005 @11:32AM (#13676462)
    Facinating how much detail gets presented in the news
    articles revolving around the switch to open source, however,
    conclusions always magically turn their focus to the
    COST of switching to OSS. (TCO and ROI)

    How quickly we all forget about the financial investment our
    companies and organizations have made in order to switch over
    to MS Office(however many years ago). Don't you dare forget
    about these financial numbers, because Microsoft already has;
    their comparisons don't account for your past software
    investment with MS.

    Take a moment to calculate the total accumulated $$$ dollars
    spent for the initial installation and training for Microsoft
    suites back in the day, and then add the accumulated cost
    of license renewals over the years that your company has
    had MS Office software.

    Once you have your accumulated costs tabulated, then we can
    compare apples to apples.

    The average person quickly forgets that their companies computer
    budgets have been spent in supporting MS Office for the
    workplace("number of licenses" x "years installed"), and this shows
    that the MS Office TCO is not free.

    Most news reports always compare the ROI and TCO of MS products based
    on "already installed MS Office installations" against future
    migration to a different(O.S.S.) product.

    This is so far wrong, and it also isn't fair. Get the facts
    straight for once!

  • by Pxtl ( 151020 ) on Thursday September 29, 2005 @11:48AM (#13676664) Homepage
    Microsoft's not stupid. They'll respond the obvious way - by providing a slightly broken support for the Open File Format. Of course, this will get private businessmen and civil servents using MS-Office to generate and handle Open File Format documents and getting confused about what's going on. The MS-perverted standard rapidly becomes the defacto standard, and the world returns to normal... except that the public once again blames the no-good liberal massholes of taxacheussettes for committing the unChristian crime of trying to interfere with the free market.
  • by abb3w ( 696381 ) on Thursday September 29, 2005 @12:06PM (#13676842) Journal
    Isn't that the main point of an open format document? To make it easier for the involved parties to interact!

    Not quite. It's to make it easier to insure that they can continue to do so, regardless of any future idiocy by any one vendor. Naming no names, of course....

  • by Morgalyn ( 605015 ) <slashmorg@gmail.com> on Thursday September 29, 2005 @02:01PM (#13677975) Journal
    I really love that they are supporting this measure at the government level. It seems to me (and I haven't seen anything really covering this angle) that it is a very smart thing to do - it forces commercial software to compete at being better than anything else available for the task, rather than just being what is known. By having a mandate of looking to OSS first, it raises awareness that it is even an option.
  • by suitepotato ( 863945 ) on Thursday September 29, 2005 @02:46PM (#13678475)
    Some people seem to be confused. A monopoly is not a free market, in fact it hinders a free market. One of the ways it hinders a free market in software is by adopting closed formats. Therefore forcing open formats promotes the free market, thus fostering innovation. Nothing is preventing Massachusetts from using Microsoft's products once they decided to adopt open formats.

    And therein lies the insult to the taxpaying populace by the holier-than-all-others anti-Microsoft Open Sore movement: that Microsoft should dance to their tune and fark the people in the meantime until they do.

    Fact: the majority of computer users interacting with the state of MA are Windows users.

    Fact: anything the state of MA does to make those users' times harder to access state documents is an imposition on THEM and NOT Microsoft.

    This is "the movement" showing its true colors as petty and pathetic bullies, using one of the worst tactics to get their way: beat the weakest down and tell them they will stop being beaten when they all turn on this one other party and follow the one doing the beating. Hurting a large group just to get at one group, using those people as an intermediary because you have no ground to stand on, no strategy of note, and no argument of merit and thus take the coward's way out and attack your opponent by going after innocents.

    This is the tech world's equivalent of terrorism. Can't take on Microsoft? Losing to them? So use the political process which the geek brigades claim to hate and distrust to get your way, impose on Microsoft's customer base, and force Microsoft to do things your way by influencing that base. No different in structure and strategy than killing innocent civilians because you're too much the coward to fight a stand-up battle with uniformed troops in the open.

    The Open Source world is dishonoring themselves by stooping to these tactics and I firmly expect they won't ever learn this. If they were even remotely capable of it, they might have expended their energies on coming up with a product that competed with those of Microsoft that the people actually wanted to buy. But since the people have voted with their pocketbooks for Microsoft, and done so in droves, force your way on them anyhow using government and manipulation of every situation.

    More and more my disgust for Microsoft lessens and grows for its detractors. More and more, they replace Microsoft for me as the biggest threat to the IT world going forward. Not content to either do what it takes to win fairly or lose gracefully, they instead use the same tactics they accuse Microsoft of and engage in the holy effrontery of the self-righteous. Way to promote Open Source with honor there, people.
  • by jwsd ( 718491 ) on Thursday September 29, 2005 @02:58PM (#13678608)
    I think you twisted the definition of free market to suit your own preferences. Free market is a business concept, while open format is purely a technical one. A free market should allow businesses to compete based on their own choices instead of forcing them to adopt just one choice. Microsoft thinks using their closed format enable them to compete better. A free market should allow Microsoft to compete based on their believes and let the open format win on the open market through consumers' choosing open format products instead of government regulation.
  • by iabervon ( 1971 ) on Thursday September 29, 2005 @03:08PM (#13678695) Homepage Journal
    It would be trivial. It wouldn't even have to be done by Microsoft; someone else could probably spend a weekend extracting the MS Office conversion support from OpenOffice.org and setting up a VB script to call it. Really, somebody ought to do that, just to mock Microsoft's claims. It would really mess up Microsoft's PR at this point if Massachusetts solicited a bid for an unmodified Office deployment for the contracts that Microsoft is claiming to be unfairly excluded from (with the Massachusetts handling the OpenDocument requirement itself).
  • by inode_buddha ( 576844 ) on Thursday September 29, 2005 @08:31PM (#13681124) Journal
    AKA professional astroturf. See here [groklaw.net].

An Ada exception is when a routine gets in trouble and says 'Beam me up, Scotty'.

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