Thin Client With OSS for Developing Nations

FridayBob writes "The BBC has a story on a new, ultra-thin client that a group of not-for-profit developers, Ndiyo, hope will open up the potential of computing to people in the developing world. Not surprisingly, their system uses open source software. The system runs Ubuntu Linux with a Gnome/KDE deskto and OpenOffice. From the article: 'Licences for software are often a significant part of expenditure for smaller companies which rely on computers. But a recent UK government study, yet to be formally published, has shown that open source software can significantly reduce school budgets dedicated to computing set-ups.'"

Nice

[Anonymous Coward]

Glad to see a full desktop think client and not another Simputer.

Development begins at home

[Doc Ruby]

Why are these cheap entry-level systems always targeted at the "Third World", rather than poor people here in the US? They'd have much better chances of success in our society, already geared for computer-readiness, in becoming popular - or gaining entry at all. Poor Americans have less of a culture gap to close to become computer users, and are much more able to bootstrap themselves into becoming unsubsidized computer consumers like the rest of us. And American products filter out to the rest of the world after they're out of fashion here, so feeding the American poor would eventually feed the foreign poor, too. Without setting up the foreign poor as better competitors to our domestic poor, upon whom we all depend. The products would be easier to produce and distribute. Aren't our own poor people worth helping?

Re:Development begins at home

[YrWrstNtmr]

Why are these cheap entry-level systems always targeted at the "Third World", rather than poor people here in the US?

Because the barrier to entry really isn't much of a barrier in the US. Dell sells a $300 machine, Walmart a $200 one. If you can't save up for that $200 Walmart box, you can't save up for the $100 one either. The only other option would be 'free'.

Thin Clients are great

[NtroP]

We use Thinstation [thinstation.org] thin-clients here connecting to either Win2k3 Terminal servers or Xandros Terminal Servers.

The benefits of thin-clients are many. First, the client can be really bare bones (i.e. no HD, minimal RAM, low-end graphics, low processesor speeds, etc) so they can be cheap ($170 + monitor from WalMart or donated machines). Second, to upgrade all your workstations (perfomrance-wise) all you need to do is upgrade or add another server - not hundreds of workstations. Third, to upgrade all you clients (software-wise), you just upgrade the software on a few servers. Managing one or two Win2K3 servers for viruses, patches, malware, etc, beats the hell out of 200 WinXP workstations!

There are other benefits, but these are the ones that have really made a difference for us. Don't get me wrong, thin-clients aren't the answer for everything. There are many situations where you need to have a fully functioning workstation. However, with the money you save on thin-clients, you can afford to get really good workstations, which in turn can be turned into thin-clients when they are needing to be upgraded.

Most of our users simply need a means of doing basic office tasks like word-processing, spreadsheets, email, web-surfing, etc. Those are perfect for thin-clients.

What would I want to have to make it better? Easy. First, get OpenOffice to work properly on a Win2K3 terminal server, It's not real good in a multi-user environment like that (unless I'm doing something wrong - possible). And the number 1 thing that would make it better: can you say "Tiger Terminal Server Edition"?

Re:Development begins at home

[Doc Ruby]

There are plenty of Americans who can't afford a $100 computer, just like the many foreigners. And the difference between even a $100 and $200 computer is $100, which is double, either here or abroad. Poverty means not having enough to eat, let alone invest in a computer, regardless of which currency you lack.

Re:The third world need wireless mesh.

[stubear]

No, the third world needs a source of clean drinking water, democratic governments instead of tinpot dictators and warlords, education on how to grow crops instead of remaining nomadic herders, better housing, and public schools to name a few things. Computers don't even rate on any list of things the third world needs.

More of the same NON-SOLUTION.

[Saeed al-Sahaf]

I have never understood the idea that "third world" people want, need, or have to settle for "miraculous" $100 computers or thin clients. The truth is that in "third world" countries, bare bones PCs that run your choice of Windows or Linux simply don't cost a hell of a lot more than $100, and often less. It's all about what the market will bare. This thin client bull shit is just more of the same non-solution looking for a non-problem. People in "third world" countries that want computers have them, and those that don't know that they "need" them can get REAL computers cheap. And, thin client or not, it matters little if there is nothing to connect them together. You know, like phone lines, fiber, dish, wireless? Think about infrastructure, than give them REAL computers.

Re:The third world need wireless mesh.

[grolschie]

I've been waiting for a bootable CD-ROM that does only this:

1). Detects simple hardware i.e. video, mouse, lan, enough for 2D X Windows.

2). Gets an IP address via DCHP and generates a unique computer name.

3). Boots to a Remote Desktop login screen without needing to know beforehand a list of computers. Simply, the same as MSTSC where you enter the username, password and computer/server name/address.

This would cut down many licenses and make Windows thin client networking a breeze. I guess there are numerous systems that can do all this, but either they are complicated to setup, or have extra stuff that is not wanted (i.e. an entire operating system and desktop apps). A simple MSTSC bootdisk would be ideal.

Great...

[Eyeball97]

Another bunch of do-gooders who think developing nations need cheap PCs. I'm in Africa, my local hardware store's damn near as cheap as I can find on Pricewatch.

The people you're targeting get paid $50 a month, my friend, and their kids go to a school which is basically 4 walls, a floor, and a roof if they're lucky.

Oh yes, a server and some thin clients is really what's needed there.

Not paper and pens. Text books. Teachers. Electricity (what are they planning to plug these things into?).

The thing about developing nations, is not that they're poor, it's that the divide between the rich and the poor is vast.

At the other end of the scale, here, you have your rich, your ex-pats, etc - and you have your $5,000/term "International School" organisations who have wireless internet, computer labs, international standard teachers, and they don't need this. Nor do the businesses, most of which are thriving, thank you very much.

I'm sitting here next to a 3Tb server in my office and a server room full of Dual Xeons next door reading about how developing nations need some sort of solution for cheap computing?

These people have so lost direction they couldn't find it with both hands and a map.

It actually looks like a nice system, that would be ideal for reducing costs in schools and some businesses world-wide, I have NO idea what they're doing thinking they're doing this for the good of the "third world".

If they really want to do something "not for profit", try volunteering for an aids project, a humanitarian project, or a teaching project.

Sometimes I look at my driver - I pay him $65 a month, and I wonder what he would have been if he'd had the education I did. HE would be sitting in this chair, for a start. I could teach him in front of this PC for a month of Sundays, and it wouldn't make up for the fact he has no basic education.

I see danger lurking

[bogaboga]

The system runs Ubuntu Linux with a Gnome/KDE deskto and OpenOffice. From the article:...

Pay attention to the beef which is OpenOffice. I am afraid that SUN may pull the plug on java, which OO.o has come to heavily rely on of late. SUN could simply change its license. Let's remember that SUN is practically in bed with M$ after having received some big cash ftom M$, and has never criticized SCO for its actions.

I personally advocate the forking of OO.o portions that are GPLed so that we can finally be free. How about that?

Re:Development begins at home

[fm6]

Well, if $200 is $100 too much for you to afford a computer, you probably can't afford $10/month for Internet access. There's other stuff you can do with a computer of course -- but for those purposes you can get a computer for $100, and a lot less, since so many old computers are floating around. If you can hook up with the right charity, you can get an old machine running Window 3.1 or Linux for free.

Ideal American school/library client

[davidwr]

I don't know about the 3rd world, but the ideal client for most libraries and schools would be:

1) video, keyboard, mouse, optionally local removable read/write storage
2) operating system, e.g. Linux, with essential utilities, e.g. firewall and antivirus software
3) web browser
4) most common lightweight apps, e.g. low end word processor, and perhaps software specific to the given installation, e.g. front end to a card catalog or other database.
5) remote access to heavyweight, lightly-used apps like OpenOffice, running on a nearby server

with hardware just beefy enough to run the local apps plus a few web browser windows plus a few remote-access windows.

All of this would boot from a read-only, or at least read-only without administrator action, medium, to all but eliminate the threat of malware and end-user malice - reboot and the damage is undone.

Re:Great...

[Eyeball97]

"My country" is Scotland, as if it matters.

I don't recall rich people anywhere in the world giving a fuck, generally speaking.

Revolution? Yeah, that'll work. Gather up every cent in the country, and redistribute it, bring the entire population up to $100 a month instead of $50. I can see how that would help.

Re:Development begins at home

[Yankel]

I think you're confusing "cheap computers" with "cheap computer access."

TFA pointed out that the target users couldn't possibly afford to put any type of computer in their homes. Not even a $100 thin client, monitor, keyboard and mouse. Besides, buying a thin client won't suffice as a stand-alone home computer. You need a server to run it from. This isn't an entry-level desktop computer.

The 'thin client' system (see www.ltsp.org for a more detailed explanation) plugs one or two dozen of these thin clients into a fat server -- at a community centre, school or internet cafe. That's when the cost savings kick in. One $1500 server and twenty $100 clients are cheaper than purchasing twenty $300 desktop computers.

Thin clients are already being used in schools, libraries and community centres throughout North America. Most of them run Windows. It's the concept of a really, really cheap one running open source software that's making it accessible to third-world countries.

Here's a better idea for the developing world...

[isny]

Cheap and abundant net cafes. People in the developing world don't need to play quake. If they can rent a pc for some period of time, it helps them communicate. Just like the communal pay phone at the general store worked decades ago. Abundancy means they don't have to walk a long distance.

Re:WTF is Electricity???

[stutterbug]

I'd mod you up +1 for insight, but -1 for presumptiveness.

When I lived in New Delhi, brown outs were a frequent problem and surges were a real hazard. A colleague of mine returned home once to the smell of ozone and burning plastic and found that a surge had left a scorch mark where his fax machine used to be. Any kind of electronic device required a special kind of expensive current regulator to protect against spikes, and even with one you were no better off if the power ever up and died. A desktop system in this sort of environment would be a mistake. Using laptops is a huge advantage, since it lives on its own power supply and really doesn't care much (or so it seemed to me) about brown outs and surges. So... Go MIT!

BUT, what you appear to be saying too is that developing countries can choose only three of the four items you list. That's bunk. Education is central to long-term development and while e-learning is mostly bullshit, computer science and engineering education needs computers.

Also, you'd be best to check your assumptions about the "Third World" at the door. There is a world of difference in the infrastructure and education needs between Burundi and Papua New Guinea on the one hand and Mexico and Kenya on the other. There are many 'Third Worlds' and few of them are of the sort you are probably imagining.

Environmental cost

[andrew71]

Why is everybody here focusing on price and not on total cost of ownership and environmental costs, which are the real point here IMO?

Re:Ideal American school/library client

[benjamindees]

You could have just said Damn Small Linux [damnsmalllinux.org].

/rant These types of solutions have been around for years. The only barrier to their adoption in "developed" countries are the MS blinders that most people wear. Not to mention, any time a non-profit thinks of deploying Linux, MS suits show up with free copies of Windows and brand new Dells. Fortunately, the "developing" world doesn't have such preconceived notions.

Re: Thin clients cheap?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hi,

Your comment is very true, but the one thing to consider is that a correctly designed thin-client will be dead silent, small (portable) and easy to move around, lock-down, etc.

An older PC, while fully capable, will probably have more than one fan, a 5400 RPM+ disk drive, and a noticable case that takes up room.

Mini-ITX is sort of a solution, but a thin-client really does work well -- for instance, a library for a card look-up system, web browsing, etc.

Re:The third world need wireless mesh.

[Daengbo]

Typical ignorant jerk who thinks that ignorance only exists in the US. Does US bashing (when you don't even know if you're accusing correctly) make you feel superior? Does putting words in peoples' mouth make you feel intelligent. Wake up and treat people like people.