Novell's Race Against Time 381
DiamondGeezer writes "The Guardian newspaper in the UK reports in 'It's a race against time' that Novell is on a knife-edge financially and competitively, having placed a huge one-way bet in the success of its Linux strategy. But there's no guarantee of success: its revenue from Linux licensing is puny, and it faces a crowded market of Linux distros. Novell may be getting some positive press now that it's gone full tilt for Linux, but let's remember the reasons why: because of mis-steps of its previous management (especially the disastrous acquisition of WordPerfect in the mid 1990s) and its failure to grow its Netware business (with more than a little help from Microsoft), it's now having to re-engineer itself for Linux."
Sad but true. (Score:3, Insightful)
They were one of the pioneers of many technologies available today. It will be sad to watch their slow painful death.
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NoVA Underground: Where Northern Virginia comes out to play [novaunderground.com]
Last post!! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What Novell should do. (Score:1, Insightful)
Novell Will be /Linux/ (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Sad but true. (Score:2, Insightful)
Requisite Suse Rules post (Score:5, Insightful)
YaST is probably one of the best system tools I've used on any Linux distribution, and hopefully we will see some really great things once we see some (forgive the buzz word) synergy between Suse and Ximian.
Still miss NDS (Score:3, Insightful)
This crazy world makes no sense.
Correct me if I'm wrong but ... (Score:5, Insightful)
No (Score:5, Insightful)
I, for one, hope Novell makes a go of it, but the world is unfortunately a harsh place.
Re:What Novell should do. and... (Score:3, Insightful)
I am STILL not pleased with the document insert "feature" which, when I insert a document, it goes into a "band", invisibly. When I link to another document and then want to edit from beginning to end, I damn well should be able to SEEEEEEE those linked documents.
Lotus WordPro has done this RIGHT for years. 1.9.79 still makes me go, "sigh.... maybe NEXT version SO/OO.o will pull their heads out and actually BUY a copy of Lotus SmartSuite and start simplyfiying and mimicking stuff that works, instead of coming up with gee-whizz stuff that piles on to the list of features that have to be debugged, making it too resource intensive (on the devs AND the desktop) to be economical to go back and fix those useful features.
I also think Novell could pull a rabbit or two by adjusting the document interface so that a user in a spreadsheet can put the tabs wherever they want, not just get force-fed bottom tabs only or top tabs only. (Actually, I thought GroupWise offered that, or maybe it was QuattroPro...)
If IBM and Novell had some limited thing going on, Lotus SmartSuite could be diffused (not DEfused, mind you) across more Linux/Open Source environments.
I am not at all about "killing off" the various suites that OpenSource devs are making, but christ-o-matic, take a LOOK at what SmartSuite has, and gingerly, without ticking IBM off too terribly, clone some of those features, especially if IBM is not going to get its Lotus camp on the band wagon.
NOVELL, are you leesteneeng? Please, PLEASE, license from IBM/Lotus the Lotus and then uppgrade the Approach database interface, the Lotus WordPro document interface, and the Lotus 1-2-3 interface. They're crisp, tight, concise, colorful, not drab/gray.
At least Lotus isn't busy chomping away and cloning the heck out of ms' orifice. (Actually between Lotus and SourceNext ("Lotus SuperOffce developers/distributors in Japan/Asia...), I wonder what will be the next offerings to Lotus SmartSuite.)
David Syes
Re:What Novell should do. (Score:5, Insightful)
What Novell really needs to do is merge unique features from Netware into Linux, and license much of Apple's proprietary code at any price.
Wow, sounds like a good idea. I'm sure Steve Jobs and Apple would jump at the chance to undercut their own market by allowing Novell to make a low cost Mac alternative!
Novell had something good with Netware.... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:IBM buy-out? (Score:3, Insightful)
Novell does have their own flavor of directory services, which is appealing to large organizations who need it to run on a heterogeneous mix of platforms.
Re:Questions on viability of NLD (Score:3, Insightful)
This may be like the opposite of "guilt by association", but here goes:
We fans of Linux like IBM these days because they support it extensively and have given it corporate legitimacy. IBM favors 2 distros in particular: Red Hat and SuSE. They both get pretty even support with IBM's servers and software (WebSphere, DB2, Tivoli, Lotus, etc).
In addition, when Novell acquired SuSE IBM invested $50 million in Novell as a show of good faith.
So I think the folks in Utah (not SCO!
Warning (Score:2, Insightful)
If Novell really wants to do something besides take a dive in front of the world, they should take the talent that they do have, add a bit to it, and (as someone else almost stated) create a Linux distro that is not like the rest. A Linux that 'makes it easy' to put it anywhere in your network, run just about _anyone's_ applications, and has simple to use but well behaved patch management and update services.
They could also ship low cost versions of their distro that are tailored for specific applications such DVR, home-based firewall/proxy/mail_filter/u-name-it, game machine, etc...
I kind of hate to say this, but if my aunt Julie got a Novell CD in the mail, and it installed perfectly for her, let her get all her normal home user applications running with ease, they would increase their customer base.
All of the home users that I know of don't want to mess around with the OS on their $500 'Dude, your getting a whaaaa?' machines. They just want to turn it on, get their email, be able to figure out how to easily use their digital cameras, and do cool stuff on the Internet that they hear about from friends and neighbors.
If Novell really wants to be a 'playa' they need to make a user experience that beats windoze and AOhelL for ease of use, ease of adding features, and ease of keeping it secure from spam, spim, virii, and other malicious forms of those 'I don't know what it was, but now my computer doesn't seem to work very good' problems.
IMHO any OS that can build a 'tune-up' kit that my aunt Julie can use will be a bear in the marketplace.
Its not good enough to have a good OS, your product has to be part of a service, and it *MUST* be innovative and include the kind of customer service that people *WANT* to pay money for.
Yeah, I hack together my own machines, and for the most part I enjoy it... but I'm rare... the majority of people just want a computer that works when they turn it on... like their stereo or microwave oven.
They also want to do 'cool' stuff without having to be an MIT graduate (not that being a MIT graduate guarantees that you know how to do _anything_).
Well, the reason that RedHat got its customer base is because they more-or-less did these things for the corporate environment. With what is happening on the home desktop, SPAM litigation, the UN wanting to control the Internet... its all too much, the aunt Julie's of the world just want it to work as reliable as their toaster, and without the need of knowing someone in the neighborhood who is a computer genius.
If Novell can do that, they *WILL* garner sizable market share.... IMO.
Re:Sad but true. (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't think this is true at all and I am wondering how you arrived at this.
Re:Sad but true. (Score:5, Insightful)
Think - Novell, one of the largest networking software companies, having the final nail in the coffin being hammered in by choosing Linux.
How would that statement sound in the mind of a PHB? "Linux = doomed software companies" is a particularly nasty association when making a platform decision (even though going with Linux was probably the right solution, rather than continuing with NetWare.)
I don't know if they can pull out of the slump, but we should support Novell any way we can, as it stands as one of the largest allies Linux (and the OSS community) has today. To see Novell's downfall will definitely weaken Linux's corporate desktop offering.
Re:Supporrting Companies with OSS Strategies (Score:3, Insightful)
Can the company's benevolence lead to some source of income?
Does what they are doing make some kind of big-picture opportunity?
If this company is intent on competing with Microsoft,
Is there anything "cool" about what the company is trying to pull off... can it get beyond logic and actually make money?
Am I just in it for a quick press "bounce"?
Will the SlashdotEffect create enough interest to actually drive the price up? (It is possible... just look at Corel in the late 90's!)
There's nothing wrong with throwing money after a good idea... just try and grasp the big picture and see if things make sense. (Checking current fundementals doesn't hurt either, but that will lead to conservative selections.)
Re:OpenOffice (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:No (Score:3, Insightful)
Except that's illegal fot a monopoly. That's why Microsoft keeps getting into hot water with evey government in the world. As a result, Microsoft has had to curb some of its more "generous" behavior.
Not that Microsoft is going to see Novell as a threat anytime soon. In order to get ahead in the market, Novell has to produce a compelling product. By compelling, I mean that you'll want to run out and buy it right now. Part of that is having better tech than everyone else (check), and part of it is having a powerful marketing image (not so check). The fact that I can't even see a *screenshot* on Novell's site isn't doing much to improve things for them.
I agree... first mover advantage. (Score:3, Insightful)
Further, Novell is currently profitable and has a fat bank account. I think they'll have enough cash flow to finish any transition to Linux. With their brand name and history, they'll easily make SUSE the #2 Linux distro around (with a real shot at #1).
IMHO, what Novell could really use right now is a some really good integration of WINE into SUSE so that their new Server + Workstation bundles actually have a chance of being useful to the average company that has the odd Windows app that they need to run the business.
Re:No (Score:5, Insightful)
It goes all ways. I'm sure Sun's price cuts were in response to Red Hat and Novell, but it also is a nice stiff jab at Microsoft, too. This is ultimately a good thing for everyone, as we are seeing competition drive prices down.
Has anyone noticed that Microsoft is now the highest priced vendor? Ironic that UNIX was the high vendor not even a decade ago.
I think in the long-term, the companies with hardware and services wings (e.g., Sun and IBM) will probably fare the best. Microsoft is pretty much software-only, which is an industry becoming more price competitive than Wal-Mart.
Blame Linux (Score:2, Insightful)
tried suse enterprise, didnt cut it.. heres why.. (Score:5, Insightful)
perhaps its just because im not the type to use the 'gui' approach to things, not that its a bad thing.
it either didnt have drivers for hardware that we needed to function, or had quirks with those drivers, or needed special treatment.
HOWEVER, that being said i installed it on a plain machine... and the installation was flawless.
I dont like yast, it was good for getting things to work, but I ended up in a console with a text editor editing configs anyhow.
the cups and samba portions in yast are just completely barebones.
the built-in kde conguration tool is far more powerful with regards to samba configuration than yast is.
I dont hate suse, it just didnt fit our needs, and upgrades failed way too easily. these machines we need, they are critical. I could not have a machine fail after an upgrade. after several of these failed upgrades i said enough is enough and switched the suse machines out with gentoo machines.
so, that why I switched it out.
it needs some more polishing, but granted some of my own personal preferences were trampled by it and thats part of it, for sure.
I will try it again in the future, I keep my eyes on most ditros, except for micro$oft linux. (redhat)
but between debian and gentoo and upgrading, I think its a tie. both do it very well, and with very little pain.
suse left me hanging more than once with a trashed system. either it didnt boot or it was really b0rked.
I say, give it a shot. it works fine as long as you dont have like bleeding edge hardware.
(like some sata controllers, ect)
Novell Apologists Unite (Score:4, Insightful)
by Merrill R. Chapman, to get a good feel for why Netware went by the wayside. Its wasn't the 'suits' that killed them, it was the engineers. They had a bunch of egotisical engineers who refused to build what the market wanted. Yes, it is/was a fast stable file server. But thats about it. You couldn't really run apps on it. And when the clients of the world are all running Windows, and Netware is expensive and difficult to use with Windows, there you go.
Former CNE isn't baffed (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Disastrous acquisition of WordPerfect? (Score:5, Insightful)
You can still try out their beta [planetmirror.com] if you would like, though ironically for a "write once run anywhere" suite you'll be hard pressed to find a browser old enough to run it.
The subsequent version of WP was recoded in C and C++.
Re:Sad but true. (Score:3, Insightful)
GNOME/KDE desktops on Linux and Solaris are the future, I think. What if every company started selling nearly 100% compatible desktops for home users (GNOME, OpenOffice.org, etc.) plus what if the big guys (Sun/IBM) started selling over-broadband GNOME desktop subscriptions (e.g., Sun Ray)?
All of it is cheaper than anything Microsoft can do. Sun/IBM can give the software away, because they will still sell you the server or the thin client hardware. Microsoft can't give away anything. I suppose Novell is sort of in the middle, as they are currently suppliers to both Sun and IBM.
Re:No to No (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Sad but true. (Score:5, Insightful)
But more than that, they have shown that they understand the industry. They have consistantly backed open source software, and even open sourced previously closed apps like OpenXchange, and the Exchange connector for evolution. They have shown commitment to the vision of a future dominated by Free/Open Source software, and they have consistantly been to bat for us. It may be some time before all proprietary apps are open sourced, including ZenWorks and eDirectory.
Novell does not have an easy road ahead of them but it is far better than any other choice they have. I give them a 70% chance of staying profitable, and a 40% chance of actually taking on the market leadership role. This may seem like a long shot, but Novell is where they are is largely a result of fundamental economic shifts of the industry rather than a set of specific management mistakes-- i.e. if you are in the right economic position (Microsoft), you can survive many serious mistakes, but if you are not, these mistakes take a more serious toll.
OT: The previous-investment trap (Score:1, Insightful)
OK, so you bought a bunch of Novell stock at $X, way back when, and now it's worth $Y (where Y << X). You could say to yourself that, well, it's really worth $X, and you'll sell it all (with great relief) just as soon as it gets back to $X. And maybe it will.
However, maybe it won't. To be in the previous-investment trap is to believe that it's "really" worth $X. In fact, what you have now is a bunch of Novell stock that's worth $Y, today, right now. You could sell it for $Y, and have $Y worth of cash in your hand.
So, the way out of the previous-investment trap is to ask yourself, "If I had that $Y, in cash, in my hand right now -- is buying $Y worth of Novell stock the single best thing I can do with my $Y?"
Maybe it is -- maybe the thing really is undervalued, and there is good reason to believe that it will return to $X, and even more. If so, relax, and enjoy the ride.
But if it's not, then the only way out of the trap is to bite the bullet: sell the Novell stock, take your $Y (and your hard-won experience), and spend the cash on something better.
(Obviously, this applies to a lot more than just stock; details are left as an exercise for the reader...)
I see a tainted distro on the horizon (Score:1, Insightful)
All that having been said, one of the things I *LOVE* about RedHat is that nearly 100% of the software they sell is open source. That's why you can now download clone CD & DVD images of RHEL from CEntOS.org and WhiteBoxLinux.org. They compiled the entire OS from the source code RedHat makes available to the world for free.
I'm glad to see Novell taking on Microsoft again. The competition will only make both companies better. However, I am concerned that one of the best Linux disros on the planet is now becoming laced with proprietary software that encourages vendor lock-in and requires per-user licensing costs.
So, what's this? I'm going to be REQUIRED to pay a per-seat licensing fee for desktop & server OS software when 98% of it is open source? RedHat may be behind the engineering curve, but at least they aren't infecting their main product with proprietary code.
Don't get me wrong. I'm excited for Novell, and we'll likely consider their offerings! Personally however, I'm rooting for Debian/UserLinux, particularly now that Yast has been GPL'd. (Thanks to Novell, BTW) Open Standards, Open Source, no vendor lock-in.
- CLC
It's not J.O.S.S. (Score:3, Insightful)
And I say that with total humor.
I prefer to see more Novell in the marketshare whether it's open or closed source. Hopefully Linux users support will push them to open more technology like some companies [ibm.com] have done, but overall Novell products are a lot better than there rivals. The eDirectory [novell.com] platform is better than Active Directory in many respects, including but not limited to security, cross-platform support (duh) and reliability
You get the picture.
If you were a Suse fan, stick in there. If you are a developer help out, open communication with Novell. Ignore the articles and push through the filter. Find situations where it works and implement it. I belive that eDirectory combined with what is now the Novell Linux Desktop will someday be a force to reckon with in the enterprise space.
If you've managed or designed a network you appreciate the technology Novell can offer you. I know many system administrators who would love to return to a day where the enterprise desktop isn't anything but an interface to work applications. I'd prefer a Linux desktop I could roll out with the features and security measures I want and be able to manage all the functionality at the server. It's the current Windows server sales pitch, but Novell's is better.
But then again, technology doesn't win in the board room. If it did Novell wouldn't be in a cash crunch now. But then again, I'm becoming a shill and ignoring some of the bad decisions Novell has made - either way, support them.
Taking on SCO would help their cause quite a bit as well...
Re:Why? (Score:3, Insightful)
From where I sit, Novell's aquisition was right on the money. redhat may have been more popular in the usa, but suse has always been a very solid distro, and always struck me as more solid and finished than redhat.
I have several business clients, all of who were red hat shops, and most of whom are now suse/novell shops. I don't see anybody moving in the other direction.
As for the main attraction of linux, free beer is absolutely irrelevant to the big boys I work with. They buy enterprise linux, and support contracts, and depend on linux to do the job with good performance, high reliability, and no hassles. suse/novell has been delivering, and with all the best of netware and edirectory available in a data center grade linux, I don't see them going anywhere but forward.
Re:other options (Score:3, Insightful)
People keep saying this but I don't see where they took any risk at all. It wasn't like they had a thriving business and they decided to ditch it to pursue linux. They were desparate to have a product that people might be interested in and sad to say that wasn't netware.
Novell probably saved themselves from an almost certain death by buying suse but it wasn't risky.
Re:Novel's Netware failure is their own fault... (Score:2, Insightful)
Bull. The only piece of Novell technology in Windows was the Novell client. SMB has nothing to do with Novell.
Seconded... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:No to No (Score:3, Insightful)
Not to mention the fact that Novell's SUSE Linux server has about twice the performance of Windows Server 2003...
When you start running dozens or scores or hundreds of servers, that kind of performance difference starts to matter. Not to mention the license fees savings - but they are not as important as the ability to run half as many servers - which means fewer admins, less infrastructure costs, etc.
Re: cashflow & Market share (Score:5, Insightful)
Being Novell they have street cred. Netware gives them a wedge into big businesses which no other Linux distro has. And I think they know and understand the businesses' needs better than any of the others, and have the tools to complement Linux to cater to those companies (Zen, identy management and such).
I think Novell and SUSE make a good fit. SUSE now has a desktop platform which they can work WITH, and not AGAINST.
They're clearly aware of it, and their CC EAL4+ certification was part of their plan, a certification which I think only SUSE still holds (among the Linux distros).
What the article could have mentioned is that Novell is proving to their customer that they can do without Windows, migrating internally to Linux desktops (see Joe Barr's http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=05/03/23/
Re:Troll here often? (Score:1, Insightful)
Would you be able to say it with a straight face if you did it for your mom's computer and 100 other moms? I find it odd how you can compare one iMac to a box designed to serve hundreds or more people. Perhaps you've been disillusioned by the Window world where it seems to require an Administrator every handful of machines so you feel all giddy you can take care of more than a handful of iMacs with no trouble?
In the real world NT "admins" might be a dime a dozen, but if you need a dozen of them it quickly becomes apparent that you'd probably be better off with one or two linux/bsd/mac osx/netware admins to do the job. The major place where NT makes any sense are the SOHOs which can't afford the time or complexity of contracting out the local support company which handles all the other SOHOs in the area but can somehow live with someone mostly incompetent to even remotely admin a system who is responisble for tweaking the machine every couple weeks/months when there's some reason to fix, change, reboot, update, etc.
That's the big lie that slapping a GUI on Windows has done, to make everyone who can click a mouse with any level of confidence that they too are an admin. That's great in a fantasy world, but be hardly amazed at how this is a core reason why that now these "admins" are handling their SOHO's www server there's internet worms released in '01 that still haven't disappeared. Perhaps you'll realize one day as well that real admins aren't as worthless as you imply.
PS - Netware targetted SOHOs and was a slow target interacting with MS's little NT/9x dualopoly. It's only now that NT is making any headway into the enterprise (ie, large offices) space for servers replacying *nix of one brand or another. But Linux is really eating into this space as well as the SOHO space as well, undercutting NT like NT undercut Netware. The only space that Linux doesn't seem to have a strong sink into is the Desktop space, and MS more than anyone prays it stays that way.
Re:No (Score:3, Insightful)
Which means that the cost of giving away the products is added to a relatively miniscule fine. (Compared to the gains of future pricing power.)
And thus, completely justified in terms of ROI.
Let's face it. They aren't putting companies in jail. You have to screw up pretty damn bad to actually worry about the legality of your actions in the corporate world.
When was the last time that a CEO was put in jail for doing something illegal that helped the company?
All the CEO's I see going to jail hurt their companies.