Debian Leaders: We Need to Release More Often 460
daria42 writes "The lack of a new stable release of Debian GNU/Linux since July 2002 is fuelling the campaigns of many candidates for the project's Debian Project Leader role, with many pushing for a shorter and more stable release cycle to stop Linux users heading for greener and more updated pastures."
Kubuntu Hoary Snapshots (KDE 3.4) (Score:1, Interesting)
http://osnews.com/story.php?news_id=10020 [osnews.com]
well.. (Score:3, Interesting)
However, I do find that using a netinstall version of the "testing" release tends to keep up to date with most packages.
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
debian (Score:2, Interesting)
Duh... (Score:5, Interesting)
Bruce
Debian thoughts (Score:5, Interesting)
Yeah... (Score:4, Interesting)
I guess that it'd been awhile since I last installed Debian from scratch, I didn't know that it has been two years.
Good news, I think (Score:5, Interesting)
I've been a Debian fan for some time, but I find I am racking my newly built critical servers on RHEL3&4 just because so many of the Debian packages are 'stale'. In a lot of enviroments, running testing is unacceptable and using stable is to far out of date for the intended use of the machine. We are definatly in limbo as far as Debian installs.
I really hope they pull this together, without Debian the landscape changes dramatically for binary stable systems.
But, the biggest problem I can see is that by releasing early and often it creates a larger legacy code base that needs to be maintained but does not have the resources to do so. You cannot effectly update a server farm of hundreds to thousands of machines to a new version within a short legacy cycle, yet it is a huge burden to maintain the legacy code for any lengh of time.
Even Slackware.... (Score:4, Interesting)
There's no excuse for no Debian stable releases since 2002.
Maybe Bruce should base UserLinux on that.
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BMO
Not to mention... (Score:3, Interesting)
But I'll wisely keep quiet so not to incur the wrath of Slashdot...
no shit, einstien! (Score:4, Interesting)
#1 Reason Why I Don't Choose Debian For My Bus. (Score:3, Interesting)
[hypothetical scenario]
Customer: "What operating system version do you use?"
Us: "Debian unstable."
Customer: "...unstable??"
The close-behind #2 reason is the installer, but I understand that's getting fixed. IMHO, Debian should strive to release a new stable version every 6 months, with 12 months being the maximum time between new stable releases. As it is, I cannot justify using Debian for business purposes when their offering that coincides with what we need is labeled "unstable".
Just so everyone knows... (Score:1, Interesting)
Stable does not always equal good.
debian (Score:4, Interesting)
the fuss about Debian's "cycles" (Score:5, Interesting)
For one, people should really understand and see, that not all Linux distributions are just there to suit the newbie (l)users' desktop needs. This is just the attitude people gather while being full-blown Windows users and then fiddling around with some Linux, thinking it's cool and if he can't find his way around, then at least that';s another reason to bash.
Debian's stable branch is just _the_ perfect distro for servers. You can argue with this statement, but I will _not_ listen to home users' hysterical crap about the newest kde/gnome being necessary. There are places where that simply doesn't matter.
Where I spend my working hours very few people use Linux distros on their desktops, really very few, but almost all our servers are Linux based. The two of them where I hve root access are Debians. One is a current stable Woody, being web&mail&db&cvs&related server which I installed last year because the previous machine had a major blowup. The other is a Debian Potato (!) which is the previous [i.e. before Woody] stable branch, which is our dns server, up and working for
No desktop environments, no x, just good stable and reliable code which I trust and - most importantly - _very_ _easy_ to maintain.
At home I use Debian SID for about 4 years now. Updated about weekly, _very_ stable and usable. It has all the desktop fun I need. Most important: it hasn't been reinstalled since the first install just always copied over to the changed machine (about once in a year, I always hand-build my machines ever since I became acquainted with the screw driver), updated the necessary stuff and keep it always apt-get dist-pgrade-ed.
For me, and for many others out there, Debian - and now the quite many Debian-based distros, hey, there are even Debian SID-based distros now (!) - represent _the_ _GNU/Linux_ _distro_. For the others, there are plenty of others you can use and that is exactly why Lnux distro forking is a Good Thing, try not to forget that.
Re:well.. (Score:5, Interesting)
My guess is FOSS really took off unexpectingly and Linux became ported to more architectures besides x86 and the Alpha. This caused the folks at Debian to focus on everybody including the atari users.
If a bug was fixed for most platforms but the amiga users (all 15) was still present, then package X would not be updated on any of the other releases. This is whats hurting it.
I hate to say it but the x86, powerpc, and sparc versions should be ahead and have a later version then the others. FreeBSD for example has alpha and powerpc as different tiers of support, although alpha is still pretty stable.
Re:If it's stable, it doesn't need to be updatedOf (Score:2, Interesting)
Project Management 101 (Score:5, Interesting)
Personally I think they would be best served by doing a little of each.
Re:Duh... (Score:3, Interesting)
If you really want UL to be 'something' and 'out there', why not just do the required work, and 'get it out'. If you have to wait for a debian update, where is the value add in the UL?
Re:Duh... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Duh... (Score:2, Interesting)
summary (Score:2, Interesting)
So we really need stable releases more often. Doing it by dropping some architectures makes sense to me, if you can't buy the hardware anyway. Also developers can still work on their favourite architecture and release if they keep up to the speed those 4 most popular architectures are releasing. It just means that i386 won't be waiting if there are some bugs on m68k.
And yes, I run debian testing
Re:Duh... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Duh... (Score:5, Interesting)
The policy of the UserLinux project is for all development to be carried out within Debian, not within our own repository. Customers can take a much greater role because the Debian organization admits them fairly.
Of course, the long release delay has made something of a fool of me - because so far we've only proven that this non-profit can't get it together to make a release.
There is a lot more in the white paper on the project site.
Bruce
Re:I never thought of Debian as having releases (Score:5, Interesting)
Trim down the number of "official" packages. Right now there is something like 3000 packages in the debian system. Why not cur that down to a thousand. Take the top 1000 most popular and best maintained backages and call it debian.
The rest of the packages can go into "ports" or "contrib" or something. They would still be there if anybody wanted to install them but they would not hold up release cycles, debian would not guarantee they would work with the rest of the system.
The great thing about debian is that by using stable you are promised that nothing you install will break your system. They can still promise that but just with less packages.
Re:More stable releases please (Score:3, Interesting)
Three levels just isn't enough to grade sensibly from known-near-perfect to bleeding-edge.
J.
Re:This is comical.. (Score:4, Interesting)
If you were running for that Debian Project Leader Role, I would vote for you.
We're using SuSE because we can't use pacakges from something called "unstable"
Re:Duh... (Score:3, Interesting)
I switched to Mandrake, but really couldn't stand urpmi: it's soooo slooow! Honestly, why does it have to download a multi-megabyte package list? It's a complete dog compared to apt-get.
Then, a couple of months ago, I got a new hard drive for my laptop, and decided to try Ubuntu. As far as I can tell, they do exactly what you describe. There's a list of standard packages needed for a desktop distribution, which are tested and work very well. (The 'main' section). There's then a 'restricted' section, that has packages that cannot be included in the main distribution (e.g. because they don't meet the strict Debian definition of 'free'). Then there's the 'universe' section, that has lots of useful packages that install cleanly, but aren't aggressively tested.
The whole thing works extremely well, has all of the Debian goodness, but with a strict 6 month release cycle.
My philosophy now is: Ubuntu on the workstation, Debian stable on the server.
Re:This is comical.. (Score:2, Interesting)
I for one am very glad that Debian does not take your advice. The differences between Enterprise, Personal, Exxtreme are arbitrary and subject to interpretation by the user and mardetroids.
My desktop might be your extreme. Who are you to tell me what my installation is?
Re:Have to compete with Microsoft (Score:2, Interesting)
"But Release When 8000+ packages ready" is next to impossible and rather dumb...
Theres probably something wrong with their paradigm(*), I guess they could also release packages individually or in groups,they kind of do that with testing in fact
Stable is supposedly for Critical Entreprise application, but who in this category needs 8000+ packages, including n minesweeper and x IM client?
Maybe the solution is less packages in Stable, just keep the most important component and apps in there.
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(*) Off course not i dont really know what that word means...
Something similar to gentoo? (Score:2, Interesting)
Seriously Gentoo has x86(stable) & ~x86(testing) and there equivalents for each platform, and different packages are considered stable or not on a per platform basis.
SUrely something like this for debian, with prehaps core architectures being released together (eg x86, ppc & Alpha).
Also how about Stable, Release and Testing/unstable as better names.
Testing & unstable all sound like they are broken, when infact testing usually isn't.