UserLinux Releases First Beta

MohammedSameer writes "According to DesktopLinux, UserLinux has released their 1st beta CD, based on Debian. The project, led by the long-time open source advocate Bruce Perens, aims to provide businesses with freely available, high quality Linux operating systems accompanied by certifications, service, and support options intended to encourage productivity and security while reducing overall costs."

Re:yet another distro?

[Bruce Perens]

Then you will be happy with UserLinux. We do all of our technical development within the Debian project. Our value-add is support and certification. The only packages in our own repository are configuration, like selecting a list of debian packages and debconf settings for them, and patches that we haven't been able to get into Debian's release (none of those yet).

Bruce

Actually

[zantispam]

if you are Bruce Perens and have a low slashdot id, you get modded up for "First Post" messages?

Yes.

Re:So its "fixed"?

[Bruce Perens]

The kernel is 2.6.8 at the moment, from the Debian package. It is so fully modular that it loads the IDE driver before it mounts the root drive - IDE isn't compiled in to the kernel, it's a module. Discover and hotplug are used to detect hardware and load drivers. As far as I can tell, it addresses the problem of normal people adding hardware.

Bruce

Re:I don't get it

[Bruce Perens]

Why a distro based on Debian? Why not just certify, service and support Debian itself?

We would end up certifying Debian, at least a specific subset of Debian packages, because our policy is not to do development outside of Debian except for configuration and temporary fixes.

Regarding service, we need to be outside of Debian to operate for-profit enterprises. Debian is part of a legal non-profit. So, we created a separate brand, and we will certify service providers to that brand and market the brand with funds from those service providers. But it makes sense to put the free software development in the non-profit, and that's where it will stay - in Debian.

Bruce

Re:User vs. Business

[Bruce Perens]

IMO, fedora is way too Red Hat Corporation centric. RH management sets its governance. Any other partner is always going to be a second-class citizen. We can do better than that. Focusing development in a legal non-profit, Debian, with 10 years of history of successful work is better.

Bruce

advantages of UserLinux

[phreakv6]

From a FAQ on UserLinux

Q: What will be the advantages of UserLinux?
A: [Brock Frazier] Key UserLinux distribution advantages:

1. Streamlined: UserLinux is a streamlined distribution with one key application in mind for a given piece of functionality. One web browser, one word processor, one mail client, one web server. This reduces support overhead both for users and for maintaining security.
2. Standards compliant: UserLinux encourages cooperation with other open source organizations, and values compliance with open standards.
3. Designed for business: The UserLinux distribution is specially tailored towards the needs of business.
4. Professional Services: The third party network of UserLinux affiliated commercial Independent Software Vendors (ISVs) allow for choice in professional services and custom application design options. The separation between the UserLinux organization and the ISVs is a win-win proposition allowing both the support advantages of a service provider network and the neutrality advantages of an operating system not tied to a single company.
5. Flexible: While each UserLinux configuration is designed to support common functionality as shipped, the systems are also open for expansion beyond the standard UserLinux set.
6. Disclosure: As a not-for-profit organization working with software developed in the open, the UserLinux organization as well as the development process for the UserLinux distribution are in the open. Critical system updates are clearly and promptly announced so systems remain properly secured.
7. Lack of lock-in: There are no licensing fees for the UserLinux distribution or related development tools. Service is available from your choice of service providers, but is never mandatory.
8. Free to obtain: ISO images and the source code are freely available.
9. Inexpensive to maintain: The streamlined nature of the UserLinux distribution assures less software to update. There are no per seat charges or OS licenses to be tracked and audited.
10. Secure: Leveraging from the power of open source, the code used in the UserLinux distribution not only has thousands of hours of development but thousands of hours of peer review.
11. Certifications: Hardware, software, support and professional certifications will be available.

Re:Maybe not.

[Bruce Perens]

For those who worry about karma whoring: There is a karma cap of 50. I have made 48 moderation points in one day, commenting on one story that concerned me. So, there would be no point in my doing anything for karma. I have more of it than I can use.

Bruce

Re:Collective Yawn

[ultrabot]

Userlinux is an answer to a question no one was asking.

Umm, it's an answer most of people in the Linux-using IT industry have been asking for a few years - "where's the free-beer enterprise-grade Linux we've been expecting?"

I don't like the anti-RH attitude some less mature Linux enthusiasts seem to have, but boy, do I love to see the competition it will be getting from free alternatives (i.e. not just Novell/SUSE).

Re:yet another distro?

[Bruce Perens]

Well, first look at the advantages of Debian over other distributions.

• 15,000 packages in one repository with no cross-dependency issues. 3 times Red Hat, 5 times SuSE.
• 11 architectures (12 if you count AMD64, which will not be "official" for this release but exists and runs fine).
• Open to participation by all. If you want something in the system and it's free software, you can be a Debian developer and get what you want done.
• Over 1000 active developers. One of the largest Open Source projects.
• More than 10 years of successful history. It's older than RH or SuSE.

Now, add what Debian hasn't been able to do: Commercial support, application vendor certification.

Regarding your installation issues. Please try the UL installer, which is based on the new Debian installer. It has a "go back" feature and asks for a proxy URL.Bruce

Re:Human DDOS attack on Slashdot by Pruce Berens

[flossie]

It has been reported the Pruce Berens is attempting to bring slashdot down by furiously typing at his keyboard to reply to every single slashdot post creating a human DDOS attack.

LOL! :o)

It certainly looks that way. According to his user page [slashdot.org], he has only replied to 10 so far. He certainly does a good job of getting noticed!

Re:Kernel Versions?

[Anonymous Coward]

I suggest you look a bit harder. Debian has the current kernels individually listed.

Re:Bruce, how about Canonical

[Bruce Perens]

I spoke with Mark about it a while ago, before it had a name. It is much closer to my original business plan for Progeny as a Debian support company, than UserLinux as a non-profit core with an organization of multiple competing support companies around it. Progeny didn't implement my plan, by the way. Then wanted to be a shared filesystem developer, and that didn't work out.

Bruce

Re:MP3 and non "free" software

[Bruce Perens]

We could include that stuff that red hat refuses to include only at the cost of potentially having to pay a patent license for every copy of the system or deal with a horribly expensive lawsuit. We'd rather push open formats.

We don't want to split software development away from Debian. It's so much more work that way.

Bruce

Re:So its "fixed"?

[Bruce Perens]

We'll probably have to go to 2.6.9 at some point. I'm told SATA is broken in 2.6.8 as well.

Bruce

Re:A little off topic

[Bruce Perens]

All of our packages will install on PowerPC, because we don't have any architecture-specific packages, those are all in Debian. You have to install Debian "sarge" first, and then add the userlinux.com repository to sources.list .

When will we support PowerPC? Hopefully soon. If someone wants to pay, even faster.

Bruce

Re:yet another distro?

[Bruce Perens]

Yes. We are adding a commercial veneer to the Debian project. The UserLinux distribution is a configuration on top of Debian, just a list of packages that we consider important for servers or workstations, and that we will support. The actual software, except for the configuration packages, gets downloaded directly from Debian's mirrors.

Thanks

Bruce

Re:Progeny -- Typo

[Bruce Perens]

Ian's main business at the moment is generating customized distributions for the "large-system" embedded industry. But Ian has been extremely helpful in creating the first LSB-certified version of Debian, work that we intend to piggyback upon.

I am told that I am #2 stockholder in Ian's company, although I am not currently part of its management.

Bruce

Re:I don't get it - It is a subset

[fmckee]

If UserLinux can select a small subset of Debian, and produce a stable/supported version of this subsest that's more current than Debian Stable -- and more importantly, position the product as a supported, modern Debian, we'd love it.

UserLinux _is_ a subset of Debian. The team has chosen a streamlined set of applications to include in each of the various packages (soho desktop, enterprise desktop, and server). You are free however, to install any of the Debian packages, not included in the UL release using standard Debian tools.

Re:yet another distro?

[Bruce Perens]

I personally am hoping that userLinux takes time to make sense in the filesystem layout

This is LSB's job. We have to follow them.

Bruce

Re:I don't get it

[Bruce Perens]

You will need to upgrade to "testing" first. Then add this to /etc/apt/sources.list:

deb http://userlinux.com/ unstable main contrib non-free

You will get a few "userlinux-" packages, they are just dependency lists for all the packages we believe belong in a desktop or server. Thanks

Bruce

Re:User vs. Business

[Bruce Perens]

We have to approach them with existing customers. They don't care to certify anything until there is customer demand. Which is why we are not approaching them yet. We intend to operate a certification lab with a small share of the revenue from our support providers userlinux business - that is part of what they trade for being certified as support providers.

Thanks

Bruce

Re:User vs. Business

[tacocat]

I think you are missing the entire point behind UserLinux and what they are doing here. If you read up on some of the essays by Perens et al you will find that they have an answer for this.

Open Source and Free software (compatable with Debian) has demonstrated the capability to replace closed source software in a great majority of the applications that a User or Business might require. For those areas where closed source software may still hold an advantage (financials?) the posit is that it is a matter of time before these areas of OpenSource/Free software shortcomings is closed and the entire Software landscape can be completed using OpenSource/Free software. Thereby removing any requirements for closed source software.

For many people and companies this is already the case, they just don't know it. So UserLinux is making the effort to provide those users and companies with working evidence that this is already the case and no longer an item for cocktail speculations.

Re:User vs. Business

[Bruce Perens]

There are a number of businesses listed here [userlinux.com] that you can call for support. They want money. Another alternative is to take the questions up on the mailing list and hope for free peer support.

Bruce

Re: User vs. Business

[Bruce Perens]

Please don't take this to be me just mindlessly trolling, as I do in fact respect what you are doing. However, I just can't see too many businesses latching onto something so new, untested and with such a *dumb* name.

Dear AC,

Consider that in 1998 they were asking the exact same questions. About Linux.

Thanks

Bruce

Re:Bruce, how about Canonical

[Bruce Perens]

You could ask Ian, but I suspect the code is dead. They released a little layered-filesystem piece that I don't think has been kept up. I have not seen other code from that project released.

I may be able to go to South Africa in late November, in which case I'll try to talk with Mark and his folks more.

Bruce

NetBSD/FreeBSD/openBSD

[nurb432]

Dont forget the *bsd series is just as huge, if the number of ports is truly that much of an advantage ..

Though its somewhat debateable how many text editors one really needs...( for example ). I feel quality of the ports is more important then the sheer numbers..

BSD is also much older and mature.. and if you pick NetBSD, it beats 11 platforms in its sleep..

Not bashing debian at all, just reminding people its not the only fish out there.. with out leaving that GPL aftertaste..

Re:More info, please?

[steve_deobald]

Bruce has already answered this many times here, but I'll reiterate: UserLinux is Debian.

The differences between UserLinux and Debian are slight: branding, configuration tweaking, and temporary fixes where necessary.

The value of UserLinux does not come from technical achievements - everything we have, Debian has (and vice-versa). UserLinux selects a supportable subset of Debian and provides it to the customer in a neat package which any number of ISVs around the world can support.

Maybe if everyone decided to work together, rather than all start their own distros, the Linux platform would be in better shape than it is on the desktop.

So, why will UserLinux not be just another one of the pack?

You just answered your own question. UserLinux is already in the "pack." Debian has been around for 10 years - working together is what we're trying to do.

Re:Kernel Versions?

[steve_deobald]

Our intention with UserLinux is to work closely with the Debian team and improve on the current release cycle. Hopefully the Debian stable release cycle can be shortened (so users aren't left with 2.5 year old packages) without sacrificing the unmatched quality debian-stable has always had.

Bruce has mentioned on the list that we'll cook our own packages and tweak Debian where the need presents itself. However, we'll be following debian-stable as closely as possible (Sarge).

With regard to people recommending you use debian-testing: `testing' is currently preparing to become `stable' on Sept. 15th. Thus, this recommendation is less "use testing" than it is "use the up-and-coming stable." :)