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SCO Says 'Linux Doesn't Exist' 739

4A6F656C writes "In an article on LinuxWorld.com.au, Kieren O'Shaughnessy, director of SCO Australia and New Zealand, details SCO's plans for Australia, stating that they have 'prepared a hit list' and "would approach Australian Linux users to ensure they had an IP licence." In closing, he adds 'Linux doesn't exist. Everyone knows Linux is an unlicensed version of Unix'." UnknowingFool writes "IBM's lawyers have been busy the last few days. Groklaw has reported a number of different filings. On the heels of last week's motions (1) and (2) for summary judgement, they have filed more documents. First, IBM wants large portions of SCO's testimonies striken (removed) on multiple grounds. Deep in the motion, they call out SCO to produce the 'experts' that did the code comparison analysis. If IBM wins on most of these points, SCO will have very little left in the way of legal evidence. SCO answers on IBMs 10th counterclaim. IANAL but from I understand SCO says this copyright infringment that SCO has allegedly committed on one of IBM's patents is irrelevant to the case and the court doesn't need to decide on it. So SCO is saying that they can sue IBM for infringing on their Unix copyrights and patents but IBM can't counter sue on a specific patent. IBM also filed another memo to support summary judgement. As a matter of law, SCO has to produce evidence to backup its claims. This mountain of evidence SCO has claimed all this time: If they don't produce it, the court has to rule in IBM's favor."
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SCO Says 'Linux Doesn't Exist'

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  • by Godeke ( 32895 ) * on Thursday August 26, 2004 @11:41AM (#10078766)
    OK, this part is off topic, but what the heck does "we broke our duck" mean? I'm sure it is some clever down under slang, but darned if I can decode it.

    These lines are the kicker (and send exactly the opposite message from the summary here on /.):

    Early this year, O'Shaughnessy warned that SCO had prepared a hit list and would approach Australian Linux users to ensure they had an IP license.
    But this urgency has dissipated with O'Shaughnessy pointing out that he had enough on his plate and would simply sell licenses as the opportunity arose.


    Can anyone seriously say that they are really committed to victory in the courts if they have backpedaled that far on enforcing "their violated rights" down under?
  • by SnapShot ( 171582 ) on Thursday August 26, 2004 @11:42AM (#10078778)
    Here's a question. IBM seems to be willing to go to the mat to defend open source and/or free software. Does this buy loyalty from you linux developers? Do you think they are getting more "good will" than they are spending in lawyers fees?
  • This is brilliant (Score:5, Interesting)

    by thewalled ( 626165 ) on Thursday August 26, 2004 @11:44AM (#10078809)
    Starts to talk nonsense..
    "The only reason we are [pursuing a lawsuit against IBM] is to defend our Unix business; we are not a litigation company, we are about Unix on Intel," he said.

    Accelerates..
    "IBM has transformed Linux from a bicycle to a Rolls-Royce, making it almost an enterprise-class operating system.

    Goes into overdrive..
    "It took us 25 years to build our business and it took [IBM] four years simply by stealing code and then giving it away free."

    and ofcourse finally..
    "Linux doesn't exist. Everyone knows Linux is an unlicensed version of Unix,"

    I wish more people like this existed to make my day.
  • A new mouthpiece? (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 26, 2004 @11:49AM (#10078893)
    Now that Darl has kinda been bitch slapped and doesn't really give us much juicy stuff in the press anymore, it appears that this dude is the new mouse that roars.

    What happens to SCO Australia after SCO USA is pulverized? Do they and the rest of the SCO's go away too? Anybody know?
  • Delisting SCOX (Score:2, Interesting)

    by greenmars ( 685118 ) on Thursday August 26, 2004 @11:51AM (#10078932)
    At some point, when a company's stock price drops low enough for long enough, it gets delisted, right?

    So SCOX is now down to 3.64, the last time I checked:

    http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=SCOX&quicken=2 [yahoo.com]

    Does anyone know at what point they will be delisted?
  • by div_2n ( 525075 ) on Thursday August 26, 2004 @11:57AM (#10079016)
    This all started as a gamble for SCO. They thought for sure IBM would have just bought them to make them shut up.

    That didn't happen then SCO thought maybe they could extort lots of money from Linux users.

    That didn't happen so then they thought they could sue other companies to scare people into buying.

    That didn't happen and now they are walking the Mile. Expect lots of sound and fury but in the end it will signify nothing.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 26, 2004 @11:57AM (#10079025)
    In the late 1970's Microsoft licensed UNIX source code from AT&T which at the time was not licensing the name UNIX. Therefore Microsoft created the name Xenix. Microsoft did not sell Xenix to end-users but instead licensed the software to software OEMs such as Intel, Tandy, Altos and SCO who then provided a finished version of their own Xenix to the end-users or other customers. SCO introduced its first version of Xenix named SCO Xenix System V for the Intel 8086 and 8088 in 1983. Today SCO Xenix is one of the more commonly used and found versions of Xenix.

    Linux was based on Minix. A UnixLite OS designed to run on PCs. However, it was really only a teaching tool. Andrew Tanenbaum repeatedly refused to add the new (legitimate) features the users and even developers asked for. Linus Torvalds set out simply to add functionality to his own version of Minix (the copyright allows use to do so for your own personal use, but you cannot sell or distibute it).

    Over time, in adding functionality to Minix, Linus Torvalds found that he had created an entirely new kernel. I was very similar to Minix but used none of the Minix source code. Torvalds had originally called it freax, for "`free' + `freak' + the obligatory `-x'. The operator of the FTP server where Linus' new kernel made its debut didn't like the name and simply called it Linux (Linus + Unix). People seemed to like the name so it stuck.
  • by hendridm ( 302246 ) on Thursday August 26, 2004 @11:57AM (#10079026) Homepage
    That is for certain, but that doesn't mean they don't have a million geeks rooting for them. Positive image, regardless of motivation, is icing on the cake.
  • by wandazulu ( 265281 ) on Thursday August 26, 2004 @12:12PM (#10079237)
    When SCO talks about Unix, what, exactly, are they talking about? Is there a "Unix" anymore? I know of AIX, Solaris, and the BSDs as the last remaining operating systems that are, I believe, Unix-derived (some of the AT&T code, some of the BSD stuff). I don't think even SCO's own products (Unixware, SCO) are so close to SysV that they can truly say to be the true "Unix" operating system.

    So when they say Linux is an unauthorized Unix, what Unix are they talking about? Besides, doesn't the original email from Linux talk about how Linux is a "Minix" clone, which in turn is a much scaled down version of Unix? Why doesn't SCO go after Minix too while they're at it. Or Plan9...that's very Unix-like.

    Or Windows...oops, no, not that one. Besides, that's more VMS than Unix. :)
  • by swillden ( 191260 ) * <shawn-ds@willden.org> on Thursday August 26, 2004 @12:24PM (#10079375) Journal

    to who? SCO Australia Ltd?

    Keep in mind that SCO is now bundling Linux licenses with it's Unix products, so every time they sell a Unix license they can crow about another customer finally recognizing the need to purchase a Linux license.

    OTOH, this whole lawsuit thing has really hammered their sales figures into the ground, so that's *still* not very many Linux licenses to crow about.

  • by Richard_at_work ( 517087 ) on Thursday August 26, 2004 @12:25PM (#10079399)

    Apple, for example, is going to get raked over the coals for not "giving back to the community" as long as they decline to offer OS X for x86 under the GPL.

    Firstly, I see no reason WHY apple should offer OS X for X86 under the GPL, since the platform they took it from in the first place was under the BSDL. Secondly, they offer Darwin, the Unix part of OS X under a generally free license anyway. Thirdly, Apple give plenty back to the community in the way of OSS updates (look at the khtml updates they have offered back). All in all, OS X basically gets its niceness from the Aqua GUI, the Unix subsystem is pretty nice but Darwin on its own isnt anywhere near OS X. Aqua had no basis in free software, so I see no reason why Apple should offer this for free in anyway shape or form. And why should the RIAA offer anything to the community? Im honestly baffled as to why you think the RIAA owes the community anything.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 26, 2004 @12:36PM (#10079564)
    ...the SCO suits' suit is as moot as gun-hugging Utah rednecks.
  • Australia?! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 26, 2004 @12:39PM (#10079597)

    For a while by now I keep reading on /.

    Australia to Get Software Patents and Anti-Circumvention Laws [slashdot.org]

    Australia to Vote on Extending IP Laws [slashdot.org]

    Australia-U.S. Trade Agreement Contains DMCA-like Provisions [slashdot.org] etc. and now "would approach Australian Linux users to ensure they had an IP licence"

    What is happening with Australia? It looks like a backyard testing garrage for corporations, which reduce humans to consumers! Isn't Australia a democracy governed for the good of the people? Or it is a private lab where consumers must eat all the crap the big corporation is testing on them?

  • Re:Market Value (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 26, 2004 @12:47PM (#10079693)
    SCO's Market cap is now less than it's Total Cash [yahoo.com] on the balance sheet.

    If they can shut themselves down fast enough, do they get to pocket the $61MM through a huge bonus plan? Or would the legal mess they're in let IBM and the like to go after the individuals?

  • Remember DivX... (Score:1, Interesting)

    by ShipiboConibo ( 808524 ) on Thursday August 26, 2004 @12:54PM (#10079794) Homepage
    This seems a lot like the situation DivX (the codec, not the video discs) was in when it was using the reverse engineered M$ MPEG codec. I guess that was somewhat of a legit case of copyright infringement (arguably), and this is just a case of a washed up company in a last ditch effort to generate revenues from litigation.

    Anyways, remember what happened when M$ cracked down on DivX? It was re-written in a way that didn't use any of the (allegedly) infringing code and now it has become fairly well accepted as a fully legitimate commercial product.

    I'm not saying that Linux should have to remove the code SCO is bitching about and I really don't believe there is even a legit copyright infringement case here, but just think if the Linux developers re-wrote a few pieces of code anyways and SCO truly had no case beyond any shadow of a doubt. This would alleviate the fear SCO has instilled in companies like EV1 (who caved in to buying SCO licenses) and yet others who are afraid to even give Linux a chance in commercial applications because of this SCO nonsense looming over Linux.

    There is no doubt that whether SCO has a case or not they are damaging the Linux market share potential. This would be a good solution IMO, and I wouldn't be surprised if Linux developers already had something like this up their sleeves!

    Someone has probably already made this DivX analogy, sorry if I missed it and please disregard this rant if so! :-)
  • by Cecil ( 37810 ) on Thursday August 26, 2004 @12:59PM (#10079849) Homepage
    Microsoft may be the 400lb gorilla, but only in the software side of things.

    IBM, on the other hand, is the 4 ton gorilla (ie, King Kong) in the semiconductor and hardware industries. They make somewhere around 90% of the ICs in the world, if I recall correctly.

    Intel and AMD are toy companies in comparison. They may be cutting edge, but they're tiny. If you need an analogy, they are like id software. Top-quality stuff, highly respected, but generally not a major industry force. A major consumer force, yes, but not an industry force. They're a very specialized company, and don't seem particularly eager to try and diversify. EA and the other mega-developers view them as outsourced game engine R&D. IBM views AMD and Intel and, on the software side of things, the Open Source community, in the same sort of way. Cheap R&D.

    Still, not a bad deal.
  • Re:This is brilliant (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Sarastrobert ( 800232 ) on Thursday August 26, 2004 @01:01PM (#10079871)
    So SCO is like the Coorporate USA version of Baghdad Bob?
  • Re:Australia?! (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 26, 2004 @01:13PM (#10080035)
    "Isn't Australia a democracy governed for the good of the people? "

    It's governed with the affirmed consent of the people. Just like the USA, if they want to vote for their own downfall, let them.
  • by Holi ( 250190 ) on Thursday August 26, 2004 @01:42PM (#10080351)
    Did you actually read any of your links. Except for the Halloween X memo the referred to articles are all conjecture. Not one of them has any hint of the facts. And the halloween memo, though interesting, has ~0% chance of being used in any legal preceding. The parent asked for proof, you responded with rumor and conjecture, try again.
  • by slipstick ( 579587 ) on Thursday August 26, 2004 @02:05PM (#10080636)
    "this is about big vs little too"

    I have to respectfully disagree. If SCO had any shread of a case and IBM was using their hammer to get rid of that shread than you'd have a point. SCO hasn't presented ANY evidence that their claims are with merit.

    Also SCO is "big enough" to hire competent lawyers, they don't have to be IBM class but they have to be better than what they've gotten so far. So it can't even be claimed that SCO didn't have the money to hire a good lawyer.

    I usually take "big vs little" to imply that the "little guy" has at least a shread of "goodness" attached. They're argument somehow has merit and the big guy is forced to use their "bigness" to crush them. But that's not what's happened here. I get the distinct feeling that a second year law student could pick apart SCO's case, maybe not so eloquently as IBM's high priced(and very good) lawyers, but they'd still have no problem defending against this.

    Hell what is there to defend against when SCO has presented NO evidence?
  • by LWATCDR ( 28044 ) on Thursday August 26, 2004 @02:37PM (#10080972) Homepage Journal
    Anyone know what the laws in Australia are on slander?
    "IBM has transformed Linux from a bicycle to a Rolls-Royce, making it almost an enterprise-class operating system.

    It took us 25 years to build our business and it took [IBM] four years simply by stealing code and then giving it away free."

    This seems like a statement that could put one in jail. Claiming that someone stole from you without proof seems a risky move at best.

    Yes SCO everyone does hate you. No one will ever want to business with you ever again. Suing customers is not the way to make people want to do business with you. By your actions you have made IBM look like a warm, friendly, and even cool company and the hero of the IT world. Yes the former evil empire now looks like Santa Claus while SCO's image is that of the Iraq information minister. I would say that SCO hasn't reached the level of the Anti-Christ. Frankly most people would expect the Anti-Christ to not be as incompetent as SCO. No not even level of Hitler. SCOs level of evil is about at the level of a pimple faced Neo-Nazi skinhead publishing newsletter out of his bedroom. Full of lies, stupid ranting, and a false sense of injustice.

    Yes SCO you have sunk so low that you are not even really hated anymore. SCO you have sunk to the level of disgust. SCO has sunk to level of a guest on Jerry Springer.

  • by red floyd ( 220712 ) on Thursday August 26, 2004 @02:38PM (#10080979)
    It would be interesting to see if this kind of action buys good will from the IBM shareholders towards the current IBM management.

    It should. If they had bought out SCOX, then any 2-bit company would see that they could possibly get big money by suing IBM and hoping to be bought out so they would go away.

    This way, SCOX is a dead as Carthage, its field sown with salt, etc... Nobody is going to try a nuisance suit like this against IBM for a long, long time...

    I think that will make the shareholders very happy, with lots of good will towards the current IBM management.
  • Re:SCO still exists? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by maximilln ( 654768 ) on Thursday August 26, 2004 @03:10PM (#10081293) Homepage Journal
    Indeed. The fact that the courts even entertain these suits is a perfect example of how corrupt, skewed, and worthless our political and legal system is in the US.

    As long as I have enough money in my legal fund and enough of a history with technical jargon-speak it seems I am given the opportunity to tank a competitor. Can you imagine if this sort of vampirism was practiced on private citizens?

    Oh wait... the IRS, RIAA, and MPAA already have a copyright on the textbook which teaches this type of behavior.
  • by maximilln ( 654768 ) on Thursday August 26, 2004 @03:13PM (#10081330) Homepage Journal
    SCO hasn't presented ANY evidence that their claims are with merit.

    It's pretty sad that a little jargon and a legal budget goes a long way into turning complete vapor into a lawsuit to try and destroy a reputation, isn't it?
  • by mi ( 197448 ) <slashdot-2017q4@virtual-estates.net> on Thursday August 26, 2004 @03:43PM (#10081643) Homepage Journal
    Everyone knows Linux is an unlicensed version of Unix
    Somehow, this reminded of Saddam Hussein's recent courtroom statement, that "Everyone knows, Kuwait is part of Iraq"
  • by Proteus ( 1926 ) on Thursday August 26, 2004 @04:41PM (#10082214) Homepage Journal
    I've been reading one of IBM's recent filings [tuxrocks.com], and I found this gem on p. 19:
    Even as SCO describes the case -- by directly quoting (without attribution) a Westlaw headnote...
    So first, SCO accuses IBM of copyright infringement. Then, SCO demonstrably commits (admittedly minor) copyright infringment in its court filing for that same suit! And all IBM's lawyers do is mention it in a parenthetical. Well done, IBM!

    The calm, cool, confident, and respectful manner in which IBM is handling itself in court is admirable; IMHO, this puts them head-and-shoulders above SCO's legal team.
  • by dtjohnson ( 102237 ) on Thursday August 26, 2004 @05:06PM (#10082413)
    The whole SCO vs IBM case is beginning to feel and sound like the lengthy Microsoft vs DOJ antitrust case.

    In the MS vs DOJ case, Microsoft clearly had a monopoly, they used it illegally, and they lost every round in court in displays of legal ineptitude. Remember Bill Gates terrible videotaped deposition? I used to wonder how Microsoft planned to win. And then...Microsoft got a new judge, a new Attorney General, a settlement agreement, etc. etc. and the who thing just vanished in a puff of legal smoke and Microsoft carried on as usual.

    Now, we have SCO seemingly out on a long limb and IBM holding the saw and yet...the news today has the city of Turku in Finland abandoning their plans to switch to Linux in favor of Windows XP. SCO is losing every legal battle just as Microsoft did but perhaps they are winning the war which is all that really matters.
  • by martinX ( 672498 ) on Thursday August 26, 2004 @05:14PM (#10082471)
    Speaking as a tru blue dinky-di Aussie, I can say that I have NEVER heard the phrase "broke our duck". Yes, I have suffered through many seasons of cricket, even back to the legendary Lillee/Marsh/Thommo/Chappel days.

    If this guy really said "broke our duck" and intended it as a cricket reference then he has picked the most obscure way of getting his point across. I bet one of his underlings used it as a joke, to see if they could get the boss to say it.

    For the yanks: cricket is like baseball, but even more boring.

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