SCO Says 'Linux Doesn't Exist' 739
4A6F656C writes "In an article on LinuxWorld.com.au, Kieren O'Shaughnessy, director of SCO Australia and New Zealand, details SCO's plans for Australia, stating that they have 'prepared a hit list' and "would approach Australian Linux users to ensure they had an IP licence." In closing, he adds 'Linux doesn't exist. Everyone knows Linux is an unlicensed version of Unix'." UnknowingFool writes "IBM's lawyers have been busy the last few days. Groklaw has reported a number of different filings. On the heels of last week's motions (1) and (2) for summary judgement, they have filed more documents. First, IBM wants large portions of SCO's testimonies striken (removed) on multiple grounds. Deep in the motion, they call out SCO to produce the 'experts' that did the code comparison analysis. If IBM wins on most of these points, SCO will have very little left in the way of legal evidence. SCO answers on IBMs 10th counterclaim. IANAL but from I understand SCO says this copyright infringment that SCO has allegedly committed on one of IBM's patents is irrelevant to the case and the court doesn't need to decide on it. So SCO is saying that they can sue IBM for infringing on their Unix copyrights and patents but IBM can't counter sue on a specific patent. IBM also filed another memo to support summary judgement. As a matter of law, SCO has to produce evidence to backup its claims. This mountain of evidence SCO has claimed all this time: If they don't produce it, the court has to rule in IBM's favor."
Re:Doesn't Exist? (Score:2, Insightful)
GNU (Score:3, Insightful)
Also, if Linux doesn't exist, will my computer still work when I get home? I've got important stuff on there, and I'd like it to not be a figment of my imagination, as I haven't backed it up lately.
IBM's response (Score:3, Insightful)
So, pencils are writing and erasers are erasing, students are preparing to embark on novels proving that this chair doesn't exist, except for one student. He spends thirty seconds writing his answer, then turns his final in to the astonishment of his peers.
Time goes by, and the day comes when all the students get their final grades...and to the amazment of the class, the student who wrote for thirty seconds gets the highest grade in the class.
His answer to the question: "What chair?"
Well, to put this in context, since Kieren O'Shaughnessy says Linux doesn't exist, IBM lawyers should respond to all the lawsuits as 'What Linux?'
Like a Child (Score:5, Insightful)
When I was a little boy I came home from school and asked my mom if we could skip Thursday. She was puzzled and said "no". She later found out that I had gotten in trouble at school, and the teacher had scheduled a disciplinary meeting on Thursday afternoon.
Thursday doesn't exist.
Re:Does IBM's actions buy loyalty? (Score:5, Insightful)
Huh? (Score:2, Insightful)
Lines of code... (Score:3, Insightful)
Then it was in the thousands... then the hundreds, then the dozens...
Now all of a sudden its the whole damn thing? I would love to hear SCO explain how someone could have the complete code to an unlicensed version of Unix and have gotten away with it until now.
Crack must be real cheap in Utah these days...
Credibility (Score:5, Insightful)
Using terms like "hit list" is not a good way of gaining credibility with investors and with judges. Claiming that something doesn't exist and then trying to sue people for using it doesn't help your credibility with anyone.
The legal system isn't deaf or blind to the media; SCO's ridiculous actions will affect the outcome of subsequent court cases. As we've seen with IBM's increasing success in court, SCO just hasn't learned these lessons.
Not that I mind at all.
Re:Does IBM's actions buy loyalty? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes.
I don't think all of us will now put down our lives for IBM. If they ever tried to pull a fast one, I have no doubt everyone would turn on them real quick. But for the mean time they have proven themselves to be a friend. And many of us are in positions to make purchasing decisions. And while we may not all go out and buy Big Blue mainframes, when two comperable deals are on the table IBM now has a slight advantage.
And that's not the only reason to support FOSS. IBM is doing several things that are good for its business. They sell hardware, and hardware needs software. Better/cheaper software makes for more profit on hardware.
Re:Backpedalling we a'go... (Score:0, Insightful)
Its a cricket term. It means "previously we had 0 points now we have a point(s)."
BTW: (For you americans) Cricket is sorta like baseball, but with a higher IQ quota.
The game can go on for days, with lunch breaks. Its all very civilised.
Its is something we taught to the colonies, but the Americans couldnt be bothered to learn, so they took up rounders instead. Except they got the rules wrong and called it baseball.
I hope I didnt offend any one with that description
Re:Does IBM's actions buy loyalty? (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Does IBM's actions buy loyalty? (Score:5, Insightful)
1) They don't have to pay the billions in damage SCO wants.
2) Fear. It had previously been common computer world knowledge; "Don't mess with IBM's legal team". SCO is going in the face of the convention. I think IBM is reestablishing that.
3) Yes, they are getting good will.
SCO doesn't care about this (Score:5, Insightful)
The connection between themselves and Microsoft is firmly established now. I guess it is still open to debate if Microsoft was the company that came up with the idea of using SCO as a massive FUD machine against Linux, or if they simply started backing SCO once they realised what potential that would have. My personal guess would be that you could probably trace the very idea back to Redmond, but that's really irrelvant here.
For all the time this has been going on, there has been a blanket of FUD over Linux. Most people here saw through it, but even on Slashdot you could find posts along the lines of "...but what if SCO is actually right and their IP is in Linux..." The business world, getting their news from sources like Forbes, had a far different perception. To them, Linux suddenly became a poison pill that no IT manager would touch. You may believe Linux's reputation will eventually recover, but SCO was able to plant seeds of doubt in so many minds in the mean time.
The real trajedy here is that this type of tactic has made SCO management and board members rich, SCO employees unemployed, Linux tarnished in the eyes of the businessman, and most likely nothing will ever be done to punish those responsible for the lies.
What a scam... (Score:3, Insightful)
Hmm, the stink of fraud is certainly filling up the room now...
What? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Does IBM's actions buy loyalty? (Score:2, Insightful)
They wouldn't.
Re:Does IBM's actions buy loyalty? (Score:1, Insightful)
Putting aside the issue of whether the Linux zealot mob is appropriately described as "you linux developers" -- sure, and here's why. IBM has no software or IP that the average Slashbot wants. (Or, in most cases, has heard of.) Apple, for example, is going to get raked over the coals for not "giving back to the community" as long as they decline to offer OS X for x86 under the GPL. Same for Sun, or the RIAA, for that matter.
The noisy people wouldn't know what to do with free AIX, so good will isn't hard to attain for IBM. Anyway, I wouldn't worry about their legal fees -- this is the company that dragged out an antitrust suit to the point where the US government ran out of resources.
Re:Does IBM's actions buy loyalty? (Score:5, Insightful)
What next? (Score:2, Insightful)
I just don't understand how a company with an outdated, proprietary UNIX, ever-decreasing customer base, and an increasingly expensive and insane legal campaign can hang on and fight for as long as SCO has. I look forward to IBM's fatal blows in the courtroom so that maybe this thing can finally go away.
Re:Does IBM's actions buy loyalty? (Score:5, Insightful)
I say they're a comfortable ally, and moving into friend catagory.
Market Value (Score:5, Insightful)
You mean the perceived market value before they started this pump and dump exercise? What exactly will that tell you? What the three month dive means to me is that even Wall Street realizes that there is no SCO case, there will be no further buyouts and SCO is worthless. People who bought into SCO are sorry they did, including Baystar who recommend that SCO fire their remaining technical staff and become a full time IP scam house.
Re:Like a Child (Score:1, Insightful)
They do that because of profit. (Score:3, Insightful)
Now, if IBM would fund a drive to eliminate software patents in the US, THAT would show they were a friend.
They are an "ally" only because they see Linux (and Open Source) as useful and profitable and an alternative to being second to Microsoft.
Re:What a scam... (Score:3, Insightful)
That could land them in hot water in Australia, depending on how they choose to use it. ASIC doesn't take very lightly to those sort of tactics.
In the end, though, SCO will run away from the "there is no linux" claim, by stating that it was taken out of context during a media interview or some shit like that.
OT: Should the word "Linux" be capitalized or not? (thinking of the recent Internet/Web conversation)
Re:Does IBM's actions buy loyalty? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Does IBM's actions buy loyalty? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Does IBM's actions buy loyalty? (Score:4, Insightful)
SCO threats becoming irrelevant (Score:5, Insightful)
I think they're going to go out, not with a bang, but a whimper. Their ability to construct a case is just going to wither away and die. We'll quit hearing about them (thankfully); then, 20 years from now, we'll hear a "Whatever happened to SCO" retrospective?
This is a little unfortunate. I was counting on their legal shenannigans to destroy them in a publicly enjoyable way.
Re:IBM's response (Score:3, Insightful)
a politically charged statement (Score:1, Insightful)
It doesn't matter how correct your evidence is these days. Even our president has proven that if you present a mountain of B.S. in the right way, anyone will believe you.
What a tiresome waste of the mind.
Re:Misleading Graph (Score:3, Insightful)
Link [yahoo.com]
Re:Does IBM's actions buy loyalty? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Does IBM's actions buy loyalty? (Score:5, Insightful)
This isn't about "big" vs "little" as SCO would try to contend. This is about "right" vs "wrong". In other words if you file a lawsuit you better have something to back it up.
Re:They do that because of profit. (Score:5, Insightful)
Our allies are simply those who interests align with ours. Stop asking companies to do more than act in their own interests: it will never happen. The advance of open source in the corporate world has been because it offers real value, not because of ideals. Ideals may drive the creation, but not the adoption.
Re:Does IBM's actions buy loyalty? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Does IBM's actions buy loyalty? (Score:1, Insightful)
except its the unusual case where everyone is hoping that the little guy gets crushed like an insignificant bug.
The neat thing about the GPL (Score:4, Insightful)
IBM's doing what they're doing out of self-interest, but the entanglement created by the GPL means that in order to act in self-interest they must indirectly act in the interests of the community as well.
Re:Market Value (Score:2, Insightful)
No, Wall Street believes SCO is worth its "market capitalization" of about $56 MM. If this is "worthless," perhaps you would be so kind as to issue me a check for a small fraction of that amount to prove it.
For on-the-brink companies, stock analysts use a range of methods to do valuation. Break-up (fire sale) value is one way; probably about zero for an IP company which has just gone to a lot of work to prove how worthless its IP is. Another is to figure they still have a slim (one-in-100?) chance of hitting the jackpot and the value is about 1/100 of the jackpot.
In this territory, stocks are a "call option" on future good luck. If the cash flow increases, you get it. If the value of the company all bleeds away, you only lose your investment and the creditors and bondholders make up the difference. The stock price can rationally be quite a bit higher than the rational expected future value of the enterprise.
Re:Given IBM's legal filings... (Score:3, Insightful)
SCO has already pulled their copyright claim from the case. This case is no longer about copyrights. Now IBM is asking to judge to assert that there is no copyright violation which is outside the scope of this case.
SCO is claiming publicly in the press that IBM is violating their copyright but not charging them with that offence in court.
I think legally SCO might win this since the question of copyright is not in front of this judge. They can lie to the press all they want. It's not illegal to lie to the press and this judge can't do anything to stop them.
Re:your .sig [OT] (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:They must not! (Score:3, Insightful)
SCO should also drop all the legal claims against IBM and other who use this non-existent software. They wouldn't want to looking foolish claiming that this inexistent software product contains code licenced by SCO.
Re:Does IBM's actions buy loyalty? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:They must not! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:SCO doesn't care about this (Score:1, Insightful)
They should be leaving ASAP. And frankly, SCO's continued existance may well hurt them in the job market--with a company like SCO bringing all sorts of irrational IP lawsuits, would you want anyone who might've been "tainted" by their IP working for you?
I pity those who work there and have had nothing to do with this, I really do.
Re:OT .. Re:Misleading Graph (Score:2, Insightful)
You should have recorded him though. That would have been super awsome. Then everybody could have heard what God sounds like. Not only that but then you could have proven once and for all that he does exist. It looks like you missed a golden opportunity there.
The common mistake UNIX RULES (Score:1, Insightful)
Note Development versions of UNIX don't have to be licenced. So stop claiming money under fake pretence. Linux is free suport is not hiring programmers to fix faults in a development tree is not free.
Sorry Sco Linus is not happy with it he is our lead developer.
And it is unlikely for linux to complete development anytime soon.
And how dare you clam the high ground UNIX is a clone of what XEROX did. Basicly history is repeating itself. You have not paid XEROX for cloning there work why should we.
There is nothing to force users to licence we are just a clone based on a clone.
Hey Microsoft you will love this logic.
So since dos was a clone of cp/m just poorly writen you own the creaters of cp/m big money lets say 90% of all you profts. And cp/m was a clone of UNIX so you have to pay SCO too and UNIX was a clone of XEROXS work so you have to pay them too and some UNIX nicked stuff from BSD so UNIX has BSD IP contained so you have to pay bsd too. Now each developer decides you are using clones of his source code so you have to pay him too. Basicly this is how to nuke the software companys to the ground.
Same logic as SCO Microsoft about time you protect linux to protect you own tail. You are funding the wrong side and may open the biggest can of whip tail you have ever seen(You are the one of the most hated companys and I don't think SUN will miss a chance). Don't worry if linux dies we will just have to make a GPL version of OpenBSD and keep on going.
Cannot hurt opensource simple you will have to fight up hill even if you do win we can start over. The question is can you.
Re:OT .. Re:Misleading Graph (Score:2, Insightful)
Take evolution for example....
If you've ever taken a college biology class, you would be able to see that evolution occurs. Comparative Morphology, predictible genetic mutation, etc. etc. It's backed by years of scientific research.
Then you have the Genesis Myth. God created the earth in seven days, and the whole thing is ohh, about six thousand years old.
The agnostic, by his refusal to choose, gives each equal creedance. It's insanity, really. But it's a convienient position for armchair philosophers to take, because it placates people. Think of it as the John Kerry position.
I am an atheist. Period. To steal a phrase, I want to believe. A mountain of evidence prevents me from doing so. Douglas Adams had a rather compelling piece on it in his final book. Some of Ayn Rand's writings on the subject are also interesting.
Re:OT .. Re:Misleading Graph (Score:3, Insightful)