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Caldera Government Linux Business Operating Systems Software The Courts Unix News

McBride Says No More Lawsuits From SCO 280

thephotoman writes "Well, Darl McBride gave an interview to IDG News Services in which he said that SCO is not going to sue any more customers. They do bring up the issue of the SCOsource Linux licensing, and how much of a failure it has been. Instead, they plan to start marketing their flavor of Unix. However, as he's not dropping the current lawsuits, there's no good reason to believe him on this change in strategy."
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McBride Says No More Lawsuits From SCO

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  • Res judicata (Score:5, Interesting)

    by lothar97 ( 768215 ) * <owen&smigelski,org> on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @06:01PM (#9872607) Homepage Journal
    I think the posting is incorrect regards the "change in strategy." As Darl says in the article:

    "I think right now we've got the claims in front of the various courts that we need in order to get our complaints heard and to get them argued and to get resolution. With respect to being more vocal or going after new targets at the customer level, we don't see the need for that. We had the need to get the basic issues on the table, but we're fine to argue the merits of what we have out there right now (in) the current litigation setting."

    There's something in law called "res judicata," (incorrect definition here [law.com]) which means if something is decided by one court, it's binding on a court in another jurisdiction. The definition given is incorrect in stating that it applies only to the parties in the original suit. It can be used against a party in the original suit, if it's the same facts/situation, and the original party had ample and adequate opportunity and reason (motivation) to provide a full defense in the first case.

    If there is going to be a lot of cases, usually a company will do several, in different forums/jurisdictions, and see if they get a good result. If they do, such as SCO getting a ruling that all Linux violates their copyright/trade secrets/whatever, then they can use that in subsequent cases when suing. The inverse is also true. If a court finds that SCO is a bunch of mindless jerks that will be the first against the wall when the revolution comes (e.g. their claims are totally without merit), then they really cannot go after anyone else without overcoming some really large hurdles.

    Not only do I play an attorney on TV, I am an attorney in real life as well.

  • No guarantee (Score:5, Interesting)

    by yamla ( 136560 ) <chris@@@hypocrite...org> on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @06:03PM (#9872630)
    I love Linux. I think SCO's claims are totally without merit. But please remember, just because Darl McBride says he won't sue any more customers does not mean he'll follow through. Remember, he's made all kinds of claims and promises in the past, almost none of which turned out to be true. His lack of honesty (or, optimistically, his lack of knowledge) cuts both ways.

    So, if you are an SCO customer, or even if you aren't, and if you run Linux, BSD, or Windows (all of which SCO has stated a claim to), you are still not safe. They may still sue you, even after claiming they won't.
  • by aredubya74 ( 266988 ) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @06:06PM (#9872653)
    Ah Darl. Silly, silly Darl. SCO Unix had its day 7-8 years ago, when Linux was still a hobby. The key market they owned was the x86 commodity hardware Unix. Linux absolutely owns x86 hardware-based *nix now, official Unix name or not. No ounce of marketing muscle you could possibly muster will change that fact. You're dead. Go away. And no, "Linux" didn't steal your IP, which you're quietly admitting now. Thanks for the 2+ year roadblock. Now fuck off.
  • by Jaywalk ( 94910 ) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @06:07PM (#9872661) Homepage
    Darl never actually says they're going to stop suing customers. What the actual interview says is:
    McBride: Rather than trying to pound through all of those issues on a daily basis, we've been content to say, "We're going to work our issues through the courtroom, and when everything is resolved there, we'll be good to go . . .
    IDGNS: By saying you're fine with things, do you mean that you don't expect to be launching any new lawsuits against Linux users?
    McBride: I think right now we've got the claims in front of the various courts that we need in order to get our complaints heard and to get them argued and to get resolution. With respect to being more vocal or going after new targets at the customer level, we don't see the need for that.
    At best, he's promising to stop customers for now, which is nothing more than acknowledging that this is all they can do at the moment. Without a win in IBM and/or Novell, SCO can't win customer lawsuits. They would all end like AutoZone; the judge would tell them to wait until the other cases are done. Or worse, like Daimler-Chrysler, which got thrown unceremoniously out of court with DC's lawyers entering sarcastic letters into evidence about how they did not verify the CPUs the code was not installed on because DC hadn't used the stuff in seven years. Since SCO has no other choice, they make contented noises like everything is going their way. But everything he's saying is predicated on winning both the IBM and the Novell lawsuits and then figuring out a way to get customers to pay SCO. And none of the court cases have been going SCO's way.

    Nothing to see here. Just Darl's usual nonsense.

  • Re:Bottom line? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by PCM2 ( 4486 ) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @06:10PM (#9872682) Homepage
    Darl has to pretend that Unixware is a viable alternative to everything Linux, but in reality SCO has a more targeted market than that. As I understand it, they have a big presence in areas like point-of-sale terminals at McDonald's. Those kind of high-volume sales will probably continue to form their core business, particularly if they can continue to create FUD as to whether the Linux alternative will be a viable long-term proposition.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @06:14PM (#9872711)
    ...who would even dare think of writing their apps for the SCO Openserver/Unixware platform anymore. In fact it would not surprise me one bit to hear of all the major players begin to announce dropping all support for their products to run on SCO's flavors of *nix in the very near future.
  • Oh, yeah.. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by k98sven ( 324383 ) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @06:14PM (#9872712) Journal
    Exactly who in their right mind would buy SCO Unix?

    With features like:

    Risking having to migrate again in a year or two when they're bankrupt?

    No 2Gb+ file support

    No 64-bit support

    Ever-diminishing support from the OSS community, which ironically provides the most useful server apps for the platform?

    Risk future lawsuits from SCO if you do migrate?

    I mean.. SCO Unix has been uncompetitive for years now, while their management has been throwing all their effort into last-ditch lawsuits.

    Naturally.. it's all bullshitness as usual from SCO. But it's always worth the debunking, in case someone actually thought SCO had something of value.

  • Re:Bottom line? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @06:15PM (#9872724) Homepage Journal

    SCO has one kind of customer, and that is legacy. McDonald's used to use Xenix, and for all I know they still might. If they're still SCO it's only because SCO promised them minimal effort in the upgrade department. Sooner or later they're going to decide they need something SCO can't give them and go to Linux.

    Xenix was basically the ideal OS for point of sale applications because it ran entirely reliably on 286 and 386 class machines. Now that point of sale systems are typically pentium or above (celeron, anyone?) there's no reason to be quite so miserly.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @06:21PM (#9872768)
    Any woe be to any SCO users that defect, because they've just lost their customer status.
  • Risking sanctions (Score:5, Interesting)

    by www.sorehands.com ( 142825 ) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @06:23PM (#9872779) Homepage
    It is not just the issue of expenditure of money and time to fight the lawsuits, if they bring more -- but the risk of sanctions.


    In Damler, the judge threw out most of their case, so they can't argue that the next one is brought in good faith.

  • Re:SCO stops sueing? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by QuantumRiff ( 120817 ) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @06:25PM (#9872792)
    I actually hope they come out with Duke Nuekom forever. Just slap that title on a silly old-fashioned side scrolling game. Then we'd get a whole new range of jokes..
  • Re:I'm sorry (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @06:26PM (#9872815)
    "My personal opinion is that Darl actually loves Linux, and he's been working as hard as he can to, on Microsoft's dime, paint the anti-Linux crowd as raving maniacs... I mean, he's not really this broken, is he?"

    In retrospect, I think you're right. It's so surreal, but there was probably no better way to give GNU softare credibility in the business world. Look at how it looks to the corporate world:

    Big companies (Daimler/Chysler, etc) use Linux.

    Big companies like Linux so much, they'll fight in court to keep using it.

    IBM will stand by Linux's IP and defend it legally

    HP will stand by Linux's IP if you pay them for indemnification/insurance

    The code is so clean, despite being a "unix clone", even the owners of unix can't find any infringing code.

  • What if... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Azureflare ( 645778 ) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @06:28PM (#9872842)
    Whenever I see Darl in the news I always think "What if.."

    What if, instead of pursuing hopeless litigation against other behemoth companies, you just tried to please the customers you had and try to make your product a better product?

    They would have failed, yes. Probably. But, who knows? Maybe they would have been able to garner a reputation for good service, and hold onto their core base for a longer time then they are now. Maybe they could have even segued into providing linux solutions, and made partnerships with other major companies (like IBM) instead of suing.

    Would SCO be a more successful company if they had? They might have failed yes, but they would have a good reputation, and they might have even been successful (or bought out), if they had played their cards right. Alas, they threw it all to the wind on a shot-the-moon scenario that will only end in tears for everyone.

    It just saddens me that people have such a lack of perspective.

  • by Bull999999 ( 652264 ) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @06:28PM (#9872844) Journal
    Darl already made millions by inflating the SCO stock so I don't think that he gives a damn what happens to SCO now.
  • Re:Bottom line? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @06:34PM (#9872934)
    Well, they apparently still have an engineer on staff somewhere.

    They just posted to Bugtraq the other day fixing vulnerabilities mentioned in a CERT advisory which was well over a year old. And CERT advisories are usually only issued once the isses raised in them are old hat...
  • Re:Good Idea (Score:4, Interesting)

    by ackthpt ( 218170 ) * on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @06:38PM (#9872991) Homepage Journal
    Yeah. Note that they didn't promise to stop suing non-customers. And that includes all linux users.

    A problem for them, in this regard, would have been a couple of my previous employers. They used both, SCO Unix and Linux for separate purposes. They may not need to be sued, but feel the change in climate and decide to dump SCO. Most companies could care less about the politics of operating system backers, they just want stuff to work and get on with business.

  • by CedgeS ( 159076 ) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @06:40PM (#9873026) Homepage Journal
    As I would have expected, and was the sole intent of these responses, the SCOX stock price [yahoo.com] took a nice step up on Monday following the interview in which SCO's CEO heighlighted SCO's other enterprises.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @06:47PM (#9873104)
    Thing is, there are thousands of Open Source / Free Software developers who DO get paid for their work. RedHat, SUSE, Mandrake, IBM, Sun, and hundreds of other commercial companies pay people to write free software.

    When Darl says something like this he just proves he has no clue how the Open Source community actually works.
  • Re:Oh, yeah.. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by hurfy ( 735314 ) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @06:48PM (#9873126)
    In case you are wondering, since we have one of the rare 2004 copies of SCO software. A third party vendor is still selling them as part of their accounting package because thats what it has always used and stability is priority number one (or damned close). None of the customers are gonna risk a $50k accounting package gettign messed up to see if it works on something else. I imagine there are other third party vendors the same. SCO sure better hope so since ours probably only uses a couple dozen copies a year! All the issues listed are not issues for these uses. Support is from the third party anyway, dont need SCO ;) We dont use 2G files or 64-bit systems to run it. I doubt many of the users mess with the unix stuff at all so other programs availble dont enter into it. Anyone doing their own thing on Unix would probably have a running box and not buy the preloaded one anyway. They are still out there, but the vendors using it seem to be small specialty programmers. Dont really blame them for using what worked. Course that didnt keep me from giving them a hard time about it ;p
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @06:53PM (#9873180)
    But if things have gotten to that point, McBride telling a magazine they're going to refrain from suing customers in the future has exactly zero chance of restoring enough trust in the company to revive their sales.

    Yup. But it may slow the attrition of their current customers. SCO may be trying to convince their customers that OpenServer is going to be maintained by SCO for years yet. With the rate that SCO is already burning through money, their customers are probably getting antsy. But who knows what McBride thinks?

  • Re:Good Idea (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Performer Guy ( 69820 ) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @06:57PM (#9873214)
    Yes, but it is a new one for SCO. Because SCO had no copyright case they actually sued former customers on trumped up charges, and so far have lost. I mean it is one thing to sue a customer who screws you over, but SCO were suing customers who had done NOTHING wrong other than perhaps not do as much business with SCO as SCO would like. All this just to create the public impression that SCO was somehow valuable through the public pretence that the lawsuits were over SCO copyrights.

    You'd have to be a raving lunatic to do any business with SCO or accept any EULA with them. Thay HAVE used this to sue customers frivilously IMHO. Daryl McBride as the architect of this strategy should be high on the list of assholes to avoid in the business world, wherever he may go in future, AVOID.
  • BSD (Score:5, Interesting)

    by rd_syringe ( 793064 ) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @07:05PM (#9873287) Journal
    Didn't they already half-implicate BSD in one of their interviews?

    They love to make those vague implications. For a while there, we were hearing a new one every week. So much for that?
  • Re:SCO Linux? Again? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by zurab ( 188064 ) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @07:16PM (#9873402)
    Companies that sue their customers will
    slowly find themselves without customers. [emphasis mine]

    It's a relative term, but I'd say "pretty quickly" instead.

    And I'm not sure what they plan with SCO Marketplace either. I'd love to see an NDA on that contract.
  • by linuxtelephony ( 141049 ) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @07:19PM (#9873433) Homepage
    Anyone notice this?

    IDGNS: Why did SCO recently decide to file a trademark claim for AT&T Corp.'s old Unix subsidiary, Unix Systems Laboratories (USL)?

    McBride: There are a couple of reasons around going back to the USL part of the business. ...

    We think that there's a very bright future in the company to return to the model that we had in the past with Unix Systems Laboratories.


    Quite a bit of revisionist history going on there, with Calde^H^H^H^H^HSCOG along with McBride and company at USL.
  • by Panoramix ( 31263 ) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @07:29PM (#9873557) Homepage
    Nothing to see here. Just Darl's usual nonsense.

    Indeed.

    Also, I understand that a bit of PHB-speak is called for if you actually are a PHB... but this is well beyond ridiculous:

    "...going after new targets at the customer level..."
    "...we're fine to argue the merits of what we have out there right now (in) the current litigation setting."
    "...the majority of the company resources are very directly pegged to the SCO Unix business."
    "We haven't gotten to the point yet, where we think that is the play we should be taking on, but it could evolve to that point, and I could see a number of reasons why that would be a good play."
    "...we have new things we're working on, and are seeing an opportunity to continue to advance it in the form of upgrades."
    "Primarily, as you look at the new higher end chipsets coming out on the AMD or the Intel architecture, we expect that we can add some real value in that space."
    "...we expect to come out and put even more emphasis behind the future growth of the industry-leading platform that has been UnixWare."
    "On the software developer side of things, I believe there's going to be a move to a develop-for-fee model, rather than develop-for-free, which is currently in vogue."
    "We're going to have more details of that as we get into the fall time frame."

    The "customer level?" "Very directly pegged?" The "fall time frame?" Man, it doesn't get any cheesier than this.

  • by wintermute42 ( 710554 ) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @08:03PM (#9873897) Homepage

    Darl: One announcement that we are making at the show is called the SCO Marketplace, and that's a marketplace exchange whereby we are going to allow developers to come and bid on work-for-hire projects that we have, to fill in the gaps where we're going with our development plan.

    Given that software developers in low cost countries like India and Eastern Europe can develop software far cheaper than developers in the US, does this mean that SCO is outsourcing their software development? I can see it now: SCO will fire their engineering staff (what little is left) and announce that they are a "virtual company" consisting of lawyers, suing IBM, and outsourced software projects. SCO will consist of Darl and a few hench-weasels to manage the lawyers and Indian software engineers.

  • duh. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by fanatic ( 86657 ) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @08:06PM (#9873928)
    However, as he's not dropping the current lawsuits, there's no good reason to believe him on this change in strategy.

    It's not a change of strategy. It's a rout. The suit based on copyrights (SCO v AutoZone) was stayed in favor of the original IBM suit and copyright counterclaims - as was Redhat v SCO - so it's clear that any other copyright-based suit will get the same treatment, making the filing worthless, even as intimidation. The other customer suit (SCO v Diamler ) was a joke that was almost entirley dismissed. There's probalby not enough left for any action.

    So it's not a change of strategy, it's a smackdown, one of many they will endure, tho not necessarily quickly.

  • Re:Bottom line? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by jtwronski ( 465067 ) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @09:28PM (#9874616)
    I have experience working in a few restaurants that have used the Micros system, and to my knowledge the backend was NT based, except for one place that had some kind of *nix backend; it definitely could've been sco. Another poster mentioned Squirrel systems. I haven't used any of their modern stuff, but the two setups i've seen ran on os/2. Yes, they were both really old.
  • Re:Good Idea (Score:3, Interesting)

    by dolson ( 634094 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @02:57AM (#9876444) Homepage Journal
    Actually, my employer is about to launch a pilot test to move the top 7 most critical systems from SCO to SUSE Linux. Thankfully, I'm going to have some involvement in it personally.

    They told me that the move had to wait until they saw what would become of the SCO lawsuits, and I guess they've decided that SCO basically was a flop and they aren't scared anymore.
  • by carlos92 ( 682924 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @09:04AM (#9877977)
    ...as we knew all along.
    He says
    "Within the company,
    less than 10 people [are working on the SCOsource initiative] ... We do have, obviously, a lot more attorneys than that, who are focused on SCOsource. But the majority of the company resources are very directly pegged to the SCO Unix business."
    It's no surprise, but it's interesting that it comes from him.

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