Sun Pondering Buying Novell 400
Krafty Koder writes "ZDNet are reporting that Sun are considering purchasing Novell and thus gain SUSE Linux.
'With our balance sheet, we're considering all our options,' Sun chief operating officer Jonathan Schwartz said in an interview on Sunday regarding the possibility of acquiring Novell.
'What would owning the operating system on which IBM is dependent be worth? History would suggest we look to Microsoft for comparisons,' he said."
it's always a bad sign... (Score:2, Insightful)
"Owning the operating system"? (Score:5, Insightful)
In other news, Sun still doesn't get it.
But you don't own it. (Score:1, Insightful)
But with Linux, ya don't really own it. That's the whole point. Thank you GPL.
I knew things were becoming too good (Score:2, Insightful)
IBM isn't dependent on Suse (Score:5, Insightful)
Ironic (Score:5, Insightful)
Also, I'm worried about the rate at which tech corporations are swallowing up other companies... We seem to have lost many medium sized companies (suse, ximian, etc) as well as some huge ones (compaq).
Great Wonderfull as if Sun hasn't changed it's (Score:4, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:IBM isn't dependent on Suse (Score:5, Insightful)
The Sun is Setting (Score:5, Insightful)
Mono would be as good as dead (Score:1, Insightful)
Schwartz said Novell's non-SuSE products are "far less interesting."
Re:"Owning the operating system"? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:IBM isn't dependent on Suse (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Mono would be as good as dead (Score:2, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:"Owning the operating system"? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:"Owning the operating system"? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, you could just say "just use Debian/Gentoo/whatever," but if Oracle & co. only run (certified) on RH and SuSE, you're out of luck.
Too much of a shift to grok (Score:3, Insightful)
They persist in talking about RedHat as if they could execute predatory behavior like Microsoft does. RedHat can try, but at some point the market will kick in and limit what they can get away with because customers will always have a choice (White Box, SuSE, etc.) and thus always have some leverage with RedHat. It's just a question of at what pricing pain point it will happen.
Next, Sun Ponders Buying Brooklyn Bridge (Score:2, Insightful)
The whole idea of Sun buying Novell for their Linux distro is absurd. There are otehr, cheaper distros or Sun could roll their own much more cheaply and effectively for their own hardware.
This is nothing more than business plan testing by public opinion.
Isn't it time (Score:2, Insightful)
They won't own Linux but... (Score:5, Insightful)
IBM is deeply in bed with both RedHat and SUSE. As with any multi-vendor deal, IBM plays them off each other to make sure neither demand too much.
A hostile SUSE wouldn't be the end of the world, but it would cost IBM significant money and (more importantly) time.
OTOH. Jonathan Schwartz's comment compareing the situation to Microsoft explains a lot about why Sun has pissed away its market position. Their officers are obviously delusional.
Re:I knew things were becoming too good (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:IBM isn't dependent on Suse (Score:3, Insightful)
How to be a CEO (Score:1, Insightful)
Bullshit yourself and everybody you know into thinking you are qualified to be a CEO.
Key reason (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:"Owning the operating system"? (Score:5, Insightful)
How about "and the engineers who built and understand it more than anyone else in the world."
Re:Mono would be as good as dead (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Perhaps this will immunize sun (Score:5, Insightful)
This is some new definition of 'toast' that describes a company back in profit, with billions of financial assets and billions of intellectual assets? They have been in difficulty for a while, and have taken a long time to come out of it, but by no standards are they 'toast' or a 'husk'.
and hasn't done anything revolutionary in years.
Java, which is now the most widely requested used development language may not be what you call 'revolutionary', but then what is these days? For example, Linux is a superb system, and deservedly successful, but its hardly revolutionary.... just a damn good implementation of Unix.
Umm, No? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:"Owning the operating system"? (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, except for the part about looking to history (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Could Be Bad For Mono? (Score:2, Insightful)
If mono ever starts becoming a serious contender for 100% compatability with Windows
Microsoft does not need to bribe Sun into ensuring that Mono gets dumped on, and they're probably smart enough to know that if there's any real corporate interest in it then someone will come along and support it. (I wonder, for example, if IBM haven't wondered about their past reliance on Java)
Microsoft can - and most likely will - play this game with library compatability. Just like they did with DrDOS. And what's more, they can get away with it. Putting money into a company like Sun, then having that company dump a potentially serious competitor to their core business just smacks too much of anti-trust. But modify the libraries to ensure just the right amount of incompatability, but while publishing just the right amount of "standards" documentation to look like a good guy provides the ideal solution.
An IBM Linux .. (Score:3, Insightful)
The world doesn't need yet another commercial linux distro. Unix is not Unix is not Unix. There are big differences between them, and God knows we've enough work on our plate having to learn at least a couple of commercial unix platforms as well as the two main Linux offerings to be marketable to employers today. One more would be a royal pain in the ass.
The only way is could work for IBM would be if they rolled out a version of Linux that shared the same sysadmin tools and philosophy as AIX. That way they could preserve customers investment in training as the skills would be interchangeable between their platforms.
At the end of the day though, they'd end up with a Linux platform which was no more functional than those from Redhat or SuSE, so would the extra engineering & expense really be worth it. Probably not.
Bidding war for Novell (Score:3, Insightful)
Or IBM could just head hunt the best of Novells people and pay them to do OSS work. I do not think Sun will buy them.
Re:"Owning the operating system"? (Score:1, Insightful)
Orgies sound like fun, but do you want a life of booze and coke, really? You have to *stay* stoned to be able to look at that piece of mess in the mirror.
A nice wife and a couple of kids may give you a lot more real satisfaction, and I bet some of those CEOs you depicted (if many exist) would agree.
"Sun are spawn of the devil!" (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm reading the comments on this story and I'm just amazed at how many comments are so hostile to Sun - I just dont understand where this hostility comes from. Sure I can understand people being critical of Sun, and criticicism is good, but this outright hatred is just weird.
Now, I'm a (recent) Sun employee[2], so maybe I'm blinded by my paycheck, but it seems to me that to consider a company that:
as being a reasonable pariah for the Linux community is just strange.
So Sun still push Solaris over Linux, well why wouldnt Sun? Sun have spent a long time working on it, the people at Sun are proud of Solaris. Surely they have as much right to be proud of their (their, cause I havnt contributed to Solaris) work as the "Linux" developers[1] have to be of theirs? And even so, Sun still do spend money on technologies that are of benefit to Unix in general, be it Solaris, Linux, BSD, whatever.. and spend money marketing what is effectively Linux.
So Sun bought out licence rights from SCO, how evil of them, but if you're responsible for Sun and you have a chance to fully secure your "IP" (yuk) rights wouldn't it be corporate irresponsibility to not do so? Remember, you can be sued by shareholders for your inactions as much as your actions.
So Sun settled a long-running dispute with MS, how evil of them. But MS infringed on Suns' rights, is Sun not allowed to get a fat cheque from MS for MSs' wrongdoing, should Sun instead have continued litigating the matter at great expense and uncertainty? Would Sun maybe then later being awarded a fat cheque from MS by court order have then *not* been evil? The settlement recompenses Sun for wrong done to it and lets Sun get on with things, why is that evil?
At the end of the day, Sun are a Unix company. Sun are not perfect, no entity is, and Sun will have to adapt to changing market conditions, as all companies do, but they're the only big company who are and have been 100% committed to Unix from day one of their existence. Sure, Sun would prefer to sell you Solaris, and why not, Solaris is still Unix, and work on any one Unix ultimately benefits all unixes, be it directly or by virtue of competition. Never mind that Sun also directly contribute to technologies/projects that are key to Linux, as well as many other cross-platform projects, and also market Linux in one segment of the market.
The irony of course is that most of these /. weenies who like to spout this ill-informed "Sun is evil, they hate Linux!!!" clap-trap are likely doing so from the "comfort" of their Win32 PCs.
Linux, Solaris, BSD, etc.. So what, they're all Unix. Unix in part draws it's strength and health from diversity, from not being a heterogenous meritocracy, not a homogenous monopoly. Sun has long been a valuable contributor to that meritocracy of ideas.
Vive la difference!
1. What is a Linux developer exactly, aside from Linux kernel developers? I work on stuff at Sun that runs on Linux and Solaris. It's all Unix to me..
2. NB: I do not speak for Sun, opinions in this post are my own. Statemen
Re:Doesn't anyone proofread these submissions? (Score:1, Insightful)
But with the US-driven media going world-wide you do have a point. But there's an interesting change about to come - there are more people with English as a second language in the world than native speakers, so expect English evolution to be driven in the future by immigrant populations into the Western world - especially from Chinese and Indian populations
This *would* be a good idea (Score:4, Insightful)
Nevertheless: this would be a good idea, if Sun had a proper management team.
First, Sun's channel sucks, especially in the small-to-medium business range. Novell, despite its decline in recent years, has a quite good SMB channel and a decent consulting network. For a long time it owned the SMB (and much of the gov't) space, and it still has deep roots there.
Second, with the Java Enterprise System, Sun is trying to break into the LAN administration, groupware, and identity management rackets. Novell knows these spaces better than almost everyone.
Third, between Sun's HIG team and the Ximian monkeys, they'd have an unstoppable Gnome desktop squadron.
Fourth, Novell's managers, in contrast to Sun's, seem to know what they're doing and how to keep their mouths shut. Shanghaing a few of them into the parent company would be nothing but helpful.
Fifth, both companies have struggled to break into the J2EE game for a while; they could combine their heretofore ineffectual efforts and have a fighting chance at making it.
A well-run Sun-Novell teamup would be a very good thing for both companies concerned. It would extend Novell's reach up-market and Sun's down-market; it would combine a rock-solid engineering backbone with an effective distribution channel. Of course, it wouldn't be well-run, and it won't happen.
Re:Nobody "controls" Mono or Evolution (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:"Sun are spawn of the devil!" (Score:3, Insightful)
this worries me... (Score:3, Insightful)
There were rumors a year ago or so before the SCO fiasco that IBM was looking to buy Novell - that would have been great--IBM would have kept Novell's good parts (ala Lotus) & dumped the rest. But I'm not so sure Sun would be as good as IBM--Sun, unlike IBM, is a company with a definite lack of consistent direction and has an uncertain future as Linux continues to encroach on it. Sun has had/has some really cool technologies, but I honestly don't think they'd really recognize the value of the stuff Novell would bring to the table and would probably screw it up because they'd be so focused on trying to leverage the Linux stuff. Which would be lame.
Re:Sun sending message to IBM? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:"Owning the operating system"? (Score:3, Insightful)
How about "and the engineers who built and understand it more than anyone else in the world."
Sun can't own Linux, but owning SuSE and having all those employees would give them more credibility as a Linux vendor.
The weird part is that for years Sun has squandered its Unix expertise in the enterprise, shoving all its resources into Java and SPARC hardware instead.
But then, Sun has a culture and mindset for high-end quality that makes it hard for them to transition from "UNIX that costs more than Windows" to "UNIX that costs less than Windows".