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Linux Software Technology

PhoneGaim Brings Phone Calling To IM Users 158

Posted by CmdrTaco from the get-your-voip-on dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Eweek has an article on how PhoneGaim integrates IM and phone into one program making it possible for AOL/ICQ, MSN and Yahoo users to call each other, landlines and cellphones. It talks about how it could be a Skype-killer since it's based on open standard SIP and comes with free PSTN calling (5 minutes per day), free voicemail via email, and even supports incoming phone calls from PSTN. It's out first for desktop Linux (maybe the start of a new trend?) but it's open source so expect a MSWin version shortly from Gaim team."
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PhoneGaim Brings Phone Calling To IM Users More

PhoneGaim Brings Phone Calling To IM Users

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  • Sweet! (Score:1, Insightful)

    by l33t-gu3lph1t3 ( 567059 )
    Now THERE is your linux IM-EMAIL-VOIP killer app.
    • " Now THERE is your linux IM-EMAIL-VOIP killer app."

      From the blurb:
      "It's out first for desktop Linux (maybe the start of a new trend?) but it's open source so expect a MSWin version shortly from Gaim team."

      It's a possible killer app that is not exclusively linux. I don't see how that will make it a killer app for linux as much as I'd like it to be.

    • Re:Sweet! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Ari_Haviv ( 796424 ) on Sunday July 18, 2004 @11:00AM (#9730892) Homepage
      it could be a killer open source app but how can it be a killer app for linux if it will be for Windows?

      But thinking in terms of "killer" for one platform is the old way of thinking. Open source itself is the killer feature for an app no matter what platform it's on. But if the platform itself is open source-that's a 2fer.
      • It is still too early to tie a commercial service like that to be linux-only.

        The plan I'm on is that I am getting people used to not using Microsoft applications, using the closest opensource equivalent whenever possible.

        There is still a danger that Microsoft operating systems would still have a stranglehold, but I don't think putting up barriers to easy transition is appropriate, even if there is fantastic stuff on the other side, an abrupt transition is still a turn-off. At the very least it would move
      • Well, remember too that for the longest time vendors would build apps for OS/2 as well.

        OK, maybe that's a bad comparison, but the point is that people would be considered wise to build The Killer App(TM) for many platforms. Esp. here with phonegaim, you have the Windows version Really Soon Now - once it comes out, J. Random Luser will be able to see the Really Cool Things that Linux has to offer, if only just a sample.

    • shame, I was hoping that it would be compatible with ichatAV for the mac, that uses sip to do voice and video conferencing, it seems a missed opportunity to allow phonegaim to speak to ichatav users.

      dave

      • Re:Sweet! (Score:2, Informative)

        by hackel ( 10452 )
        If it indeed uses SIP, then it will work (eventually), that's the whole point of an open standard.
      • You can make sip-sip calls. Besides, Gaim already can do iChatAV, right?
        • You can make sip-sip calls. Besides, Gaim already can do iChatAV, right?

          afaik, gaim can exchange simple text based messages with ichatav, and probabaly swap files and the like. both are aim clients after all, what I'm wondering is if a phonegaim user wwith me on their buddy list will see the little phone indicating that I've got a mike and can make phonecalls, and would it work if it did?

          I couldn't find any mention of it on the phonegaim site but if it's there then that would be great, I know a few peopl
    • I'll adopt a "wait and see" attitude for that one. I hardly use Gaim in the first place, maybe will check it out to see if the quality is good, but using up those 5 "teaser" minutes won't take long. Just reminds me of some of the people who were so pleased with internet phone calls; had a client who SHUT OFF HIS PHONE SERVICE(he was on dial-up) and called because his modem was giving "no dial tone" errors....
  • but only time will tell if it actually will be useful or will it fall to the wasteside like the phones in the early 90's with the cameras built into them that I think AT&T built.

    • Re:That's nice... (Score:2, Interesting)

      by memco ( 721915 )
      It doesn't strike me as something that will be very big. Especially with a whopping 5 free minutes a day; what kind of conversation can you possibly have in five minutes that couldn't just be done over IM? I've used iChat's VOIP, but only once in a blue moon; frankly I only use it because someone calls me. I wouldn't think it's worth the $20 phone or $5 a month fee for a number. It's simply not usefull enough to coulgh up the dough for extra hardware or services. It'll most likeley end up being one of
      • If I understood it correctly, the 5 free minutes are for PC-to-phone calls. PC-to-PC calls should remain free.

        More interesting is the question if they will offer secure PC-to-PC calls, encrypting the voice data, like Skype does.

    • Re:That's nice... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by argent ( 18001 )
      It's getting hard to find a high-end cellphone WITHOUT a camera now.
    • ... a small (iPAQ or BlackBerry or Tungsten sized) gadget that runs linux and can do IP over 802.11*, GSM and GPRS, I'd grab it and start developing software. Imagine what we could build if something like this were available to those of us who just want to do it ...

      (Actually, all that in a laptop would be a good start. But so far, I haven't learned of a laptop with hardware for all three wireless comm systems. And there's the ongoing problem of publishing the proprietary specs so that 802.11* hardware w

  • BT/Yahoo in UK announced service in UK (Score:4, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 18, 2004 @10:48AM (#9730826)
    This week BT/Yahoo announced an upgraded yahoo messenger product that does the same, however pc->phone connects are billed to users landline account. PC->PC are free, International charged at destination countries local rates.

  • Sounds interesting (Score:4, Interesting)

    by QangMartoq ( 614688 ) <SearchingBearCub@nOSPAm.gmail.com> on Sunday July 18, 2004 @10:49AM (#9730828)
    But I wonder - Is the 2.28 cents per minute rate (domestic US only, others higher) a good deal?

    What about the call quality?

    A quick look at the site shows the adapter to be about $90 - which, I think, is required to be able to use a normal telephone. That kind of upfront cot is not going to win over customers!

    • Re:Sounds interesting (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      A more detailed look (or a look at all, actually) will reveal that they have a SIP handset available for $19.95 US via sipphone.com.
    • The rate seems pretty good, assuming the call quality is good. I'm getting a business internet / phone package where long distance is 2.99 cents a minute. One benefit of is that the time is metered in six second increments rather than the full minute.

      I'm not sure exactly what technology is being used, I think it is similar to VoiP as each phone call takes away a small amount of bandwidth from the internet service, and the conversation doesn't happen over normal phone lines, at least on my end.
  • I am not an user of Linspire. Please help me find RPM for my FC2

  • O. S. X! O. S. X! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by numbski ( 515011 ) * <numbski&hksilver,net> on Sunday July 18, 2004 @10:50AM (#9730833) Homepage Journal
    Okay, okay. I'm excited.

    Here's the deal. The house I just bought is POTS. I've long wanted a way to hook a box up between my NID and all the phones in my house, and have that box intercept all calls, and run it through a 'spam' filter if you will. Be able to filter calls by wildcard (block all calls from area code 803, or an exact number, or numbers without caller ID) and give a generic message to the caller, heck even pick up the call and hang up immediately. If it passes the filters, ring the house phones.

    I know that this gets off-topic, but it seems to me that this is a step in the right direction (possibly) of accomplishing what I want without having to go buy IP phones for my house.
    • Check out Asterisk [asterisk.org]. It will do all of the above, and more.

    • Re:O. S. X! O. S. X! (Score:5, Informative)

      by silas_moeckel ( 234313 ) <silas@@@dsminc-corp...com> on Sunday July 18, 2004 @11:01AM (#9730902) Homepage
      You can do this now. Asterix makes a good PBX you just and outward and inward facing physical lines as you desire more inside extensiuons (Groups of phones) and outside lines. The cards are a few hundred and it needs a modest PC to run everything. Pretty much you can add any type of extension be it VoIP or POTS and any type of outside line be it VoIP POTS ISDN or a PRI. You can implment outgoing dial plans so that long distance is autmoticaly routed to the VoIP with fallback to land lines etc etc etc. Right now I run my house with these (it helps that I baught a small pile of dirt cheap Diamond USB attached inside POTS lines) every phone is it's own extension and I have POTS and VoIP external lines.
      • I've been playing with Asterisk myself for a week or so and it's pretty damned good (although takes some time getting your head around the configuration). I've got an FXO card on order to connect it to my POTS line and I have a couple of DDIs registered (for free!) at VoipUser [voipuser.co.uk] which direct over the internet to my Asterisk server.

        I've been looking for a half decent SoftPhone for linux and haven't been able to really find one - the best I've found is IAXComm, which has an annoying habit of missing the occas
      • Oh, and if anyone finds a Symbian-UIQ SIP or IAX client that will run on my SE P900, that'd be really handy (I haven't found one yet, although there seems to be stuff available for the Symbian-60 devices). VoIP-over-bluetooth and turn it into a flashy cordless phone when I'm at home. :)

  • What I would like to see (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    is a solution like this that will allow computer users to call VoIP services like Vonage and packet8 without having to use PSTN services. I.e. purely Internel calls.

  • VOIP still sucks (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Seriously. People have been trying to do VOIP for years, but hardly anyone wants it. There's the "neat" factor, but for anything but that international calling (if the call is to someone as tech-savvy as yourself, of course) it's useless.

  • Vonage & SIP? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Duwke ( 586308 )
    Does vonage use SIP? I would think not, but I noticed that both use the same softphone
    http://www.vonage.com/features.php?feature=softpho ne [vonage.com]
    http://sipphone.com/softphone/ [sipphone.com]

    Don't tell me Xten thought ahead and created a transport abstraction so that either could be used... cause I want to use GAIM with my vonage account!

    • Re:Vonage & SIP? (Score:3, Informative)

      by silas_moeckel ( 234313 )
      Yes you can actualy. Vonage is a standards based VoIP service you just need to know where to point your VoIP endpoint to register put in the password (Hard to get unless it's a softphone account) I currently run Vonage through an Asterix PBX it's not that hard to get working. Hit up google for the particulars.

  • If only.... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Iphtashu Fitz ( 263795 ) on Sunday July 18, 2004 @10:57AM (#9730874)
    ...they supported IM through SIP then I might make use of this product. I have no desire to place phone calls through my computer, especially if I have a limited number of minutes or have to buy extra hardware or the cost is going to be more than using the old-fashioned phone sitting on my desk right next to my computer. What I REALLY could use is a linux IM client that supports SIP. My company uses MS products for all it's IT, but everybody in my group runs linux desktops. Now that they've rolled out a corporate IM solution based on MS products we're effectively SOL unless/until somebody develops a SIP IM client for linux... I'd find a linux SIP IM client infinitely more useful than a linux SIP phone.

    • Re:If only.... (Score:5, Informative)

      by wfberg ( 24378 ) on Sunday July 18, 2004 @11:03AM (#9730917)
      unless/until somebody develops a SIP IM client for linux...

      Does a java client [nist.gov] cut it?
      • Does a java client cut it?

        Sweet! Thanks for the pointer to this. I've been searching for a client for a long time but never thought to search for a java based one... I'll try this out at work tomorrow and see how it does.
    • What is the IM'ing protocol, I'll get started, SIP is a pretty easy protocol to deal with, but it is just the handshaking, what is the comminication means after it has been connected? If it is MS based then it can still be proprietary and you may still be SOL (or are you saying you need SIP or MS). Honestly though, reply to this with the SDP header and I'll see if I can't get started.

    • Re:If only.... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by chefmonkey ( 140671 ) on Sunday July 18, 2004 @12:03PM (#9731250)
      We're working [sipfoundry.org] on it [sipfoundry.org], but it'll probably be a bit of time before we can dig up the time to add all the necessary features. (n.b. this is still alpha code. I'm pointing it out in case anyone wants to help develop). [sipfoundry.org]
  • Is there a way to have linked screen names in GAIM so they all show up in the same buddy list window?

  • To those wondering.. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by wfberg ( 24378 ) on Sunday July 18, 2004 @11:00AM (#9730886)
    The service (with 5 minutes free etc.) used is SIPPhone [sipphone.com], the company that was started by the Lindows guy.

    The 5 minutes for free can only be gotten by using phonegaim ON lindows, buying a SIPPhone device, or by buying $20 of SIPPhone minutes. Not actually free, then, just included with the cost of your purchase.

    Note that you can only call people if you're BOTH using phonegaim. You could just exchange (S)IP numbers and use any normal SIP client for the same effect. Nothing to see here. There are already dozens of free SIP clients.

    Note that skype, while a cooky closed-source, non-standard product, does have good support for using it behind NAT, which is harder with SIP. (Personally, I say, give me the IPv6 already).
    • I meant to spell, "kooky", of course. *sigh*. My c/k zen is quickly fading..

    • Re:To those wondering.. (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Note that skype, while a cooky closed-source, non-standard product, does have good support for using it behind NAT, which is harder with SIP.

      A VOIP protocol that plays nice with NAT would be a beautiful thing. Asterisk's [asterisk.org] native AIX protocol will go through NAT but I'm not aware of anything else using it, and there's a patch [goe.net] for H323, but nothing for SIP :-(.

      • That's IAX not AIX.
      • Every time I see one of these stories I get confused. Why mess around with running VOIP on a general computing device. When I was deciding what to do about my suddenly increased long distance needs I looked at the software VOIP solutions for about 30 seconds before going with Packet8. So why not just quit messing around with software and just call Vonage or Packet8 or one of the other hardware VOIP vendors?

    • Note that skype, while a cooky closed-source, non-standard product, does have good support for using it behind NAT, which is harder with SIP.

      This might just be the reason for SIP never taking off - Skype does one thing, and does it really well, so there's no incentive to switch to anything SIP-based.

    • Re:To those wondering.. (Score:3, Interesting)

      by chill ( 34294 )
      Note that you can only call people if you're BOTH using phonegaim. You could just exchange (S)IP numbers and use any normal SIP client for the same effect. Nothing to see here. There are already dozens of free SIP clients.

      Really? I was under the impression that you could attach a SIP number to a Buddy and call them as long as they had SIP capability. Like...MSN Messenger.

      While there may already be dozens of free SIP clients, name one on Linux that integrates IM (presence) with SIP.

      STUN "Simple Traver
    • Well, if you RTFA, "PhoneGaim also lets you make phone calls to regular telephones"

  • Didi I misread the Linspire site or will this ONLY work on Linspire?

    • Re:phoneGaim (Score:3, Informative)

      by theefer ( 467185 ) *
      You misread the site indeed. It works everywhere, just grab the source and compile it. Or wait for someone to provide RPMs/DEBs/ebuilds.

      PhoneGaim is Free Software (GPL).

    • Re:phoneGaim (Score:3, Interesting)

      by gnalle ( 125916 )
      From the faq [phonegaim.com]: All code changes are being provided to the Gaim project and will hopefully be merged into the main Gaim distribution.

      However I wonder if gaim-vv [sourceforge.net] will end up replacing phonegaim.

  • I think its time to make packages for mandrake, redhat, suse, debian, slackware and any other major distros so we can start using this software across linux :)

    How about a knoppix cd with this software ready to run? I bet it will appeal on my windows freak friends heh
  • is there any cross-platform video chat software that doesn't suck?
  • here is an interesting effect.
    when you read the google tech news. the main story about phonegaim points to this very thread on slashdot...
    google news [google.com]

  • Ripped off Icon from iChatAV (Score:3, Informative)

    by xirtam_work ( 560625 ) on Sunday July 18, 2004 @11:47AM (#9731165)
    is it just me, or is the icon for PhoneGaim just a complete rip-off of the iChat AV icon on Mac OS X.

    I can't get excited about this PhoneGaim as I already use a SIP phone client as well as iChat AV.

    I expect Apple to add voicemail in the next version anyway. It's been touted in many of the forums I read already.
    • I'm not sure that it's a complete ripoff, but there are certainly similarities. This wouldn't be a first for Lindows/Linspire (it seems they're behind PhoneGaim), either. See LPhoto [linspire.com] (iPhoto [apple.com]) and LSongs [linspire.com] (iTunes [apple.com]) for enlightenment. I won't complain: they say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

      As far as Voicemail in iChat, I post this from the Tiger developer preview, and I don't see anything related to voicemail yet. It could, of course, come later.
  • I was really hoping this would be an AIM client for my cell phone. All the providers in my area charge my $.05 for each IM sent/received, similar to SMS. This is even though I'm paying the monthly data charge for up to 1MB of data (WAP). Damned crooks. A small downloadable chat client would be fantastic!

    • Re:Nuts! (Score:2, Informative)

      by sveinungkv ( 793083 )
      You could do that by creating a Jabberaccont, adding AIM to it, and download a Jabberclient for the phone (it's a lot of them, try jabber.org)
    • Get a Symbian phone and download Agile Messenger for free or IMPlus for pay...

      Then get T-Mobile or Cingular's $19.99 unlimited data plan and you're good to go.

      Now, I have found that keeping a cellular GPRS connection on all day long just does not work, even if you get good signal strength (you won't indoors).

      --D

  • it looks like gaim-vv (Score:5, Informative)

    by bferrell ( 253291 ) on Sunday July 18, 2004 @12:02PM (#9731247) Homepage Journal
    with terminating POTS service hung on the back of it.

    see http://gaim-vv.sourceforge.net/

  • Open Source (Score:4, Informative)

    by samhalliday ( 653858 ) on Sunday July 18, 2004 @12:04PM (#9731258) Homepage Journal
    in fact... its more than just open source. its *free software8 and is distributed under the GPL. sweet! (remember... not all "open source" software is free, it simply means the source code is viewable; like java.)


    • (remember... not all "open source" software is free, it simply means the source code is viewable; like java.)

      And remember, not all "free software" is Open Source, it simply means you didn't pay for the program; like Internet Explorer.

      Wow. Back to hashing over concepts from what... 1998? This is why the FSF [gnu.org] publishes its definition of Free Software [gnu.org] and OSI [opensource.org] publishes it's Open Source Definition [opensource.org].

      • all *free software* IS open source. free is free as in gratis AND free as in freedom. stay to your side of the line sprocket... and no tresspassing!! ;-) [oh god... i can't believe i just quoted a fraggle rock episode]
  • Maybe I am missing the point but how is this new? Isn't this just a crossover of Gaim with GnomeMeeting?
  • There are two phonegaim specific files that are not in the latest tarball, off linspire.com *or* phonegaim.com.

    linphone.h, and osipua.h. During compiling:

    In file included from gtkblist.c:51:
    sipphone.h:3:26: linphonecore.h: No such file or directory
    sipphone.h:4:20: osipua.h: No such file or directory

    Hrm.. Lets see.... GPL software mods ... missing pieces of the mods... sound familiar? I'm not going to start hopping up and down like a crazed gully dwarf screaming "GPL VIOLATION!", but has anyone else suc

  • No credit to the Gaim team, in the slightest (Score:5, Insightful)

    by SuperBanana ( 662181 ) on Sunday July 18, 2004 @12:38PM (#9731455)

    As usual, Lindows seems to be cruisin' for a bruisin':

    PhoneGaim (pronounced "Phone Game") is an Open Source project started by Lindows, Inc.

    I believe that should read, "PhoneGaim is an open-source project, using open-source code from Gaim with SIP technology added by Lindows, Inc."

    Also, the main page is bullshit:

    Available immediately, and exclusively for Linspire

    Uh, try, "source is available on the downloads page", not "you must be running Linspire". Then again, they could have crippled it so badly that it will only compile on Linspire...

    • Re:No credit to the Gaim team, in the slightest (Score:4, Informative)

      by magefile ( 776388 ) on Sunday July 18, 2004 @02:17PM (#9731986)
      The full quote is: "Available immediately. Exclusively for Linspire, PhoneGaim can be downloaded and installed with one-click," meaning that Linspire's exclusive "thing" is the 1-click installation. Whether it's really one click or not, and whether that'll actually be exclusive once RPMs come out, is another question. Misleading, but I think you misinterpreted it.

  • gaim updates (Score:2, Interesting)

    by tannhaus ( 152710 )
    My only problem with this would be the frequency you have to update gaim to keep yahoo and others working. If they're going to use gaim they should have some type of notification built in to notify you when a new version is available...AND KEEP IT UPDATED.

    It won't be so bad for Joe Blow if all of a sudden he can't connect to Yahoo but sees a new update is available. Then he installs the update and Yahoo works again. He's satisfied and doesn't think anything of it. The problem will be when these lindows

    • Re:gaim updates (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Gleapsite ( 713682 )
      So what if in Gaim a patching system was implimented, and the default option was to alert the user when patches for specific protocols were available. so Jow Blow downloads the latest of Gaim and get an alert saying "Yahoo has changed their protocol, we are currently working on fixing this, please bear with us" or something of that like. This way we inform the users whats going on, and we don't actually have to have a fix to alert them that its broken. AND we can place the blame where it belongs, right o

  • It would be better.. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by pugdk ( 697845 )
    if the gaim team would finish the support for normal IM's before throwing themselves into this kinda project.. I mean, I *still* can't get MSN to work using gaim... If I'm lucky I can connect but then I can't receive messages and if I try to write someone I will be disconnected immediately.. Please fix this before making a voice version :)
    • We didn't write this, despite Slashdot's very screwed-up information about all this.

      You're not the only person hitting that MSN bug, but it's something that not a lot of people (and no developer, as far as I know) has been able to hit. We're looking into it.

  • a word from Gaim (Score:5, Interesting)

    by L.Schierer ( 23008 ) <lschiere&users,sf,net> on Sunday July 18, 2004 @02:46PM (#9732149) Homepage
    As a gaim developer, I'm rather curious to know where this idea that we will be providing a win32 version of this fork has come from.
  • Somewhere in this thread, and also on the #gaim IRC channel, the Gaim developers have expressed their complete lack of involvement with this project. Moderators, please seek out their comments (ChipX86 and L.Schiere) and moderate them UP.

    The slashdot article is not just a little off, it's virtually wrong on every thing.

  • Waste of time and resources (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ShadowRage ( 678728 ) on Sunday July 18, 2004 @07:14PM (#9733984) Homepage Journal
    This has to be one of the most useless apps I've seen.

    first, it only works for lindows, you can get the source, but without some serious issues (I had to hack my makefile, and no prevail)

    no documentation whatsoever, so you gotta guess the deps.

    you could go with gaim-vv rather than this. this is just a waste, it cant connect to any other sip networks except the one run by lindows, and it can only communicate with other phonegaim clients, and it costs money to call a landline, not to mention the rates high for VOIP.
    The last comment in the article should be edited out because the GAIM devels have zero involvement with this.

    just dont bother with this, it's overhyped, only reason it's getting media coverage is because a company is behind the new features. gaim-vv is much better IMHO.

    bottom line, phonegaim is a cruddy hack. dont bother with it.
  • .. they didn't call it PhoneLinAIM?
  • Ok, so it's not as bad as h.323, but SIP is not
    firewall-friendly -- Skype is.

    We should make it talk IAX2.

  • Finally someone recognises that IM and Voice are different enough to use separate protocols for the two. I'm fed up with this bullshit where IM protocols have to implement their own voice protocol because the existing ones simply mustn't be good enough. :-/

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