Commercial DVD Software Comes to Linux 416
timekillerj writes "Turbolinux launched a new version of it's Linux distribution today. The key feature is the first commercial DVD player, provided by Cyberlink. PowerDVD for Linux supports menu navigation, Dolby Digital sound, subtitles, and more."
What? (Score:5, Interesting)
Plonk!
DeCSS? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:DeCSS? (Score:3, Interesting)
It was one of the arguments, not the only one :-)
I prefer xine but for OEM this is important ... (Score:1, Interesting)
EULA's (Score:5, Interesting)
ftp://ftp.turbolinux.com/pub/TurboLinux/LICENSE
END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT
You should carefully read the following terms and conditions of this end user license agreement ("agreement") before installing any of the software stored on the enclosed cd-roms. By installing any of this software, you (and any entity on whose behalf you are acting) are consenting to be bound by this agreement. If you do not agree to all of the terms and conditions of this agreement, do not install any of the software and return all enclosed cd-roms together with their complete packaging to the place of purchase for a full refund.
http://www.turbolinux.com/about/returns.html
Turbolinux will offer an even exchange for damaged media within 30 days of purchase. We regret that we're unable to accept returns for all other opened software.
So, If I don't agree, I can't use the software AND I can't get my money back. I think I'll go rewrite the EULA myself and agree to my version instead.
Re:commercial? (Score:3, Interesting)
I am personally sick of trudging through MPlayer's DVD navigation abilities, and welcome CyberLink's entry into the fray. (Even if the software isn't open source, is IS native to Linux, which is a first step.)
PowerDVD has been my favorite software MPEG2 decoder for windows for quite a while, and I can only wonder what the power of Linux will do for the same technology.
Re:DeCSS? (Score:5, Interesting)
Exactly. In the Norwegian DeCSS trial the main argument wasn't "Decrypting DVDs under Linux is not illegal". It was "Decrypting DVDs is not illegal".
Laws don't specify operating systems.
Re:Great. (Score:3, Interesting)
Oh come on, that's a pretty specious argument. Just because the source is available to examining eyes does not mean people have availed themselves to it and have ensured line for line security.
Your comment is not unlike saying "Microsoft software is inherently more secure then open source software because no one is able to read its code and find bugs in it."
Commercial Linux Software (Score:5, Interesting)
It's this same stigma that causes companies to not build software for Linux because they think Linux users dont want to pay for anything.
If you really think it's such a bad thing to have to pay for a commercial dvd player. Think if you pay for it and Linux becomes very popular that you will see a free version shipped on the dvd's themselves so you can watch it on Linux. This is how it is for Windows. Most dvd's you buy come with free player software.
PowerDVD stinks (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:EULA's (Score:3, Interesting)
Maybe I'm missing something, or I read this wrong. But what I get from this is, if you purchased a copy you would be required to read the EULA before you open the envelopes with the CDs (like MS soft). If you disagree, don't open the cd envelope, and take it back for a refund. If you agreed, opened it, and the media is damaged... take it back within 30 days.
Why is it ... (Score:5, Interesting)
Nick...
Linux isn't just for x86 (Score:2, Interesting)
is popular now; that's what Linus himself uses.
AMD Opterons (x86-64 or AMD64) make nice Linux boxes.
I've only seen BitKeeper try to keep up with all
the different ports. Nobody else even tries.
Re:commercial? (Score:4, Interesting)
Waah, I want free software. Waah, I want the source code. Waah, Apple hardware is too and I want to build my own from substandard parts someone threw away.
If you don't have money, get a real job son.
Don't get me wrong, Open Source is good is a good thing but you should pay for your codecs like everyone else does. Reverse engineering codecs/encryption methods without paying royalties is just as bad as software piracy. Commercial software will be key to the success of linux on the desktop and those that stand in the way of it are only helping MS keep their hold on the market.
I don't know if these people complaining are rich kids with trust funds who have never worked a day in their life or pizza delivery guys who are bitter because they could not afford college. I grew up poor and I had to work hard to get where I am today.
Re:commercial? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I bought my DVDs, they weren't free (Score:3, Interesting)
Again you're making no sense, because the physical counterpart to the VCR is the computer, and Linux users don't complain about having to buy their computers.
You can not make money on Linux software
Sure you can. Create something new that isn't already provided free, and people who need that functionality will buy it. (If they don't buy it then they really didn't need it, or the price was much too high.)
The trouble with the moaners like you is that you don't produce anything novel enough to be worth buying.
Re:This is great, except that... (Score:5, Interesting)
speaking of which, Windows just lost its major feature for me - DVD playback. (I know about DeCSS, I want legal solutions and don't care about money)
if I weren't addicted to Virtual Pool 3 MS would be dead to me.
Re:A non-free piece of software for GNU/Linux on x (Score:3, Interesting)
Let's go the whole mile.. (Score:4, Interesting)
What the norwegian court found [efn.no] (in Norwegian) was:
"DVD-Jon" did not have the intention to promote piracy, but to enable playing on Linux, and enable making back-ups of his DVDs.
The court also found that there is a fair-use right to a backup copy. They also found that licenses voiding this right were unenforcable.
They also found that the reverse-engineering done by "the nomad" (not Jon himself) was done in order to obtain interoperability, and thus legal under Norwegian and European (91/250/EEC, article 6) law.
Hence, they found that decrypting DVDs using this information aquired through reverse-engineering in order to create backup-copies was legal.
Basically what I'm saying here, is that from the verdict, it is not clear that he would've been found innocent if the procecution had been able to prove he had created DeCSS with the intent to enable piracy.
So you can't generalize the ruling into "Decrypting DVD's is not illegal in Norway".
Re:commercial? (Score:3, Interesting)
Also, PowerDVD has the worst interface of any software DVD player. Why try to mimick a real device with all of the limitations that go along with it?
I don't want a DVD *Player*, I want a set of DVD *Codecs* which can be plugged into my player of choice, where I play everything else. On Windows this means a few DirectShow plugins, but of course there's no standard media codec API for "GNU/Linux".
I use Solaris on UltraSparc (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:commercial? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:commercial? (Score:1, Interesting)
If not, then claiming that each copy of DeCSS distributed should include a royalty payment is inconsistent.
If so, then it is consistent, but I will personally ignore it. Why? I'm a good citizen. I obey the speed limit (don't want to hurt anyone). I pay my taxes (ouch. We need public services.) I don't pirate software and I don't share music. But I paid $20 for that Spiderman DVD and I'll be damned if someone's gonna tell me how I can watch it. I understand not copying it and giving it away, but my conscience is clean watching it using DeCSS. The only reason this is an issue is because they think I'm gonna copy it and give it to someone else. Well I'm not.
I think they should try another approach that doesn't offend us non-piraters. Play a 30-second commercial that says "Are you or your kids illegally sharing music?" or something of that nature.
Which is a good deal... (Score:5, Interesting)
Offtopic side note: This is one of my Windows pet peaves. For $200 dollars, you'd think Microsoft could include a bloody DVD decoder. But to be fair, I guess they've got enough antitrust problems to deal with.
Re:commercial? (Score:1, Interesting)
DeCSS is illegal. Correct.
It's illegal without sending royalty. Wrong.
DeCSS is illegal period. This isn't a patent issue with CSS. It's industry trade secret protection.
Even if you don't agree, with patents or trad secrets, even if I wanted to pay, I cannot get permission from them to use their decoding scheme. That's what monopoly power over an intellectual property means. You are the sole provider. You decide who can or cannot use--for example, with patents and unlike copyrights, this *includes* research purposes (cannot use for research without permission); there is no clause protecting research or anything similar to fair use.
DeCSS is illegal because they do not have an open or really known royalty system. This is further complicated given playback is an mpeg2 variant--you also have to get the permission of the mpeg2 holders, but that's realisticly surmountable given mpegla (mpeg licensing association) which has open requirements, but afaik, they have a minimum limit--but one could get around that likely by forming a small group of people who want to purchase legal implementations).
CSS owners have chosen not to do anything like mpegla. So even if I wanted to pay royalties, they have elected not to grant me the right to their intellectual property. I'm dead in the water until they decide they want to sell. Note this has nothing to do directly with price, although indirectly, if you wanted to dumb a few billion, I think they'd listen.
I have, for years, wanted to buy a commercial, standalone (the app, not a whole system) legal Linux or BSD runable DVD application. I contacted a few companies in the past that
No where is it found where I can send royalties even if I wanted to *and* which they would accept and grant me a one app/user right.
DeCSS is illegal because they have chosen to control the scheme, not because of the want for a free (as in money/beer) app, so forget about a legal open source free as in source and beer app. You can likely get away with DeCSS running on Linux boxes because it's small scale; they aren't going to bother going after you.
(The only legal scheme is this (close source, third-party commercial app with presumed license), although I think it would be interesting if a non-licensing body bought a slew of PowerDVDs but sent their own app out (likely illegal but I'd like to read that court case)).
Re:commercial? (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, GStreamer [freedesktop.org] is probably going to be it.
Re:commercial? (Score:1, Interesting)
why not set up a dvd-db, just like cddb, except this one stores CSS keys instead of song titles...
a lot of free players out there would jump on including support for it in the software... automatically look up the dvd and use the key to open the css, without violating the DMCA (it's not circumvention if you're not actually use decss yourself).
Although I'm sure this could be seen as a slippery slope - using this logic it could be seen as being OK to borrow a stolen car from the guy who stole it, because you didn't technically steal it yourself.
Re:commercial? (Score:2, Interesting)
You set a poor precedent with your onomatopoeiac pronuciations and implications that people who disagree with you are no-talent, bitter losers. What's the matter? You can dish it out but you can't take it?
I was not talking about Open source projects involving infrastructure such as Apache or mysql
So what? Did I say anything about infrastructure? Oh you assumed that all those billions are just going into the kernel and back-end tools? I think you still haven't been paying close attention. Sun has been doing usability research with gnome. Mozilla is as focused on end-user stuff as they are on the API. Novell's Ximian is all about Evolution and their Desktop. Music composition and creation tools for linux are starting to seriously compete with expensive stuff from the likes of Steinberg. Meanwhile Free applications like vlc blow away powerdvd in terms of functionality and quality of output. Other than poorly thought out legal constructs, aka software patents, standing in the way, there is no reason to use powerdvd over the Free alternatives. Powerdvd is not the best tool for the job.
PS. I'm quite proud of the fact that I work for a private company that receives no hand outs from other companies.
WTF? What the hell does that mean? The best I can make out is you seem to think that companies like IBM and Novell are giving money away, no strings attached, to other companies working on Free software? If that's the case you have a seriously poor grasp of the way business works. And furthermore, 10 to 1 your "private company" takes "handouts" from the government in the form of tax breaks if not outright grants, few companies of any size in America do otherwise.