Fedora, SuSE And Mandrake Compared 459
gmuslera writes "This weekend 2 comparisions were made between latest Fedora, SuSE and Mandrake Linux distributions. The first one was done by FlexBeta and in general goes deep, done by people that seem to know Linux, and good around its 9 pages. The later one was done by The Washington Post (yahoo news link) and shows another view of those 3 distributions, from someone that seems to dislike Linux and don't know enough about it. In what of those extremes are the average new user experience with those distributions?" Update: 07/06 01:01 GMT by T : Note that long-time Washington Post tech writer Rob Pegaroro doesn't seem to dislike Linux -- far from it; he's just writing what he sees as truth.
I agree w/ the washington post comment (Score:5, Interesting)
I still can't get xdmcp to work right. What the hell are all those MIT_MAGIC_COOKIE-1 errors that I'm getting from my Xserver?!?
Linux is great and all, but it requires more persistance than most people have. I think that Washington Post fellow struck the correct tone. Linux still isn't for everyone. Maybe when more hardware vendors get on board and release open drivers....
Partitioning (Score:3, Interesting)
Unfortunately, to install any of these versions without wiping out most Windows installations, you'll need to buy a third-party program to partition your hard drive.
Do any of the Linux Distros come with some sort of "Magic Partition" style software that can be run on install? If not, this might be a very nice addition. I know Live CD allows you to try out Linux without risk to your windows install, but a partition manager that creates a linux or windows boot up automatically would be very cool. And of course, the windows partition could be mouted under linux and directories like "My Documents" could be linked into the GUI on Lunx.
Getting better (Score:1, Interesting)
Also while the washington post's article says linux is an awkward alternative, the experience was that some hardware support was better and easier than windows XP and that it was far cheaper. Since I have to disagree with the statements about it being harder to install software (look at apt-get, urpmi, yum, emerge -- the problem is that there is a LOT of outdated information on the web, this will eventually change), it _definately_ makes linux a contender. Its simply amazing to me that someone who isn't a linux head is doing an article on yahoo/washington post. Slowly but _surely_ I say.
Repartitioning (Score:5, Interesting)
Unfortunately, to install any of these versions without wiping out most Windows installations, you'll need to buy a third-party program to partition your hard drive.
Which is, of course, wrong. Using parted and a graphical frontend like QTparted, you can easily resize partitions. The last SUSE install I helped out with had a partition resizer during the install. Did they take this feature out?
Re:I agree w/ the washington post comment (Score:5, Interesting)
Linux server is there (minimal setup, high performance and stability), desktop is not. Redhat's CEO was right.
But of the 3, I would say Suse is the best for desktop. Feature packed and have the least number of things broken in my opinion. Fedora is nice, but only if you want the bleeding edge. I wouldn't recommend Mandrake (sorry)
Sound (Score:1, Interesting)
Why I use Fedora.... (Score:4, Interesting)
Anyway, my first choice for Linux is definitely Mandrake. The interface is beautiful, fast and easy and it runs stable (I've had some stability problems with Fedora) all of the time. So why don't I used it? Well, first of all, Mandrake HATES my trackball mice. I have two of them, one from Logitech and one from some other company I can't remember. Anyway, both the mandrake install and mandrake itself refuse to recognize these mice. That wasn't too too bad, I can handle using the regular kind of mouse. But then came the USB problem. No distribution of Mandrake that I have tried up to and including 10.0 liked my USB flash drive. On Fedora I just mount
The final thing I have against Mandrake is its configuration tools. Fedora comes with a nice set of tools to configure all of the stuff I want to use / customize and it always works. Mandrake's on the other hand, have a bad habit of reverting to the settings it liked without even trying my new ones.
I'm running Fedora 2 right now and it works fairly well and does all of the stuff I need it too (it's much better than Fedora 1 for reliability IMHO), but as soon as Mandrake gets to liking my trackballs and jumpdrives I will have no hesitation in switching over.
ATI Cards (Score:1, Interesting)
My reviews. (Score:2, Interesting)
Then I had Windows 2000. It ran well, but I deleted it because it was a pirated copy.
I deleted Debian six months ago because I didn't like being told everything on my system was unstable.
I deleted Gentoo one month ago because it took two weeks to install on my 650mhz computer. And two days to do big updates.
I'm using Mandrake 10 now, but I don't like it either. KDE is too busy for my tastes, and though I'm going to switch it to Gnome eventually, I really just want Irix.
Eventually, I'm just switching to one of those linuxes that boot straight to a PVR interface when they support my ATI AIW.
Why I recommend Fedora. (Score:2, Interesting)
What I recommend is Fedora, this is because of the widespread support of Yum and the abundance of online sources of RPM repositories.
Dag, FreshRPMS, and a couple others offer much of the software that Fedora lacks by default.
Yum makes it easy to update your OS, install new programs etc etc.
In fact I beleive that tools like Yum and Apt are the killer application for Linux.
Hundreds of programs at your fingertips, just type apt-get install progrname, or yum install progname, and you have your program.
No messing with dependance, chasing down RPMs on obscure home sites. All that dependancy hell solved for ever and ever and ever.
Plus you guess what?!
YOU KEEP YOUR OS UP TO DATE.
By installing programs you keep your OS up to date.
yum update
yum install software
Apt-get update
apt-get upgrade
apt-get install software
Then you have GUIS like synaptic for Apt and you'll have nice ones for Yum shortly.
No security patches go unpatched. If you want nice new games or programs you keep you OS up to date by default.
Good stuff, easy to use, modiretly easy to setup.
Something that Mandrake's urpmi and Suse's Yast tools aren't even close to as good as Yum for Redhat/Fedora and Apt for Debian.
NO MORE DEPENDANCIES TO DEAL WITH. Wasy, and third parties fill in the blanks for things like libdvdcss and other programs.
Been there, done that (Score:2, Interesting)
I used 3 platforms:
a. An old AMD K2 350 b. VM Ware c. A 2.6Ghz P4
Personal assessment:
1. Sound - alsa is better than 2.4 OSS
2. All distros were easier to install and manage than there previous kernel 2.4 offerings
3. I liked Suse9.1 the best (mainly because of YaST and ease of mangement)
4. I liked KDE better than Gnome (don't flame - it just my preference)
I had used RHL 8 in the past - this was an eval on my part - I'm now a Suse fan.
Re:command line is bad? (Score:3, Interesting)
When other OS's don't require it, then yes, it is too much to ask. It's annoying to go have to look up commands when it's dirt simple to create an interface that asks appropriate questions.
Whoop-de-de, you can use a CLI, you're so elite.
Re:command line is bad? (Score:4, Interesting)
It's not so much a need as a preference. Can new users *really* be bothered to learn how to use the command line? No. Should all users have to drop to command line? I don't buy it. Does lack of command-line use make an Operating System inferior?
No, look at how Apple do it. Most 'new users' WANT their bright shiny GUI interface and won't want to dig under the hood to get things working. I'd say the need to drop to command line a lot is the main reason a lot of people don't switch to Linux (probably second after it's inability to run games without the likes of Wine or WineX). The command line looks daunting to new users. Big shiny buttons that tell you exactly what they do look easy. First appearances count for a lot, as does ease of use. command-line does not look easy-to-use. Be it an installer, a program or the whole OS, if it looks easy to use, if it is easy to use, a lot of people will use it. A lot of people dont care about the technical details and 'getting to know their computer', they just want a quick and easy way to get everything done so they can do their work (or play). Just ask the guys at Apple.
Oh, and leave Clippy alone, Clippy is your fr... OK, I concede that one, Clippy is a bastard.
Re:command line is bad? (Score:3, Interesting)
Who is keeping stuff more difficult? The opposite is happening. We're keeping the command line as it is, and adding a desktop the system. It's the bleacher pundits who are the ones advocating removing a complete command interface just to spite the intermediate and expert users.
Re:So true (Score:4, Interesting)
Yet is was during this era when Windows was unsuitable for the home desktop that Microsoft aquired its monopoly on the home desktop. But command line Unix with a KDE or GNOME shell is too difficult for the newbie. Somehow we have to eliminate the command line completely before ZDNet editors will be able to use it...
Re:www.google.com (Score:3, Interesting)
Let me just say that they were less than helpful. Forum posts were unanswered, even today (Ok, it's free - but most people don't wait 4+ days for help). Chat rooms were downright rude!
Now, I guess I approached the chat rooms wrong, but I really doubt many people go into a chat room and ask for help until they have exhausted their knowledge of other information sources. I at least try the vendor's site. There I got redirected to a SUSE howto so I didn't try google, I tried to follow those instructions.
Not helped by dial-up, the US servers are atrocious, and the german ones fail at least 30% of the time where I am. This right away leads me to wonder wth? So I keep messing around, and figure out it's just network issues. So I finally get YaST to download "information" about updates - this takes a good hour. What the heck info is THIS??? When it finishes, it says "no updates available"
Now, I know this is wrong, or the HowTO is wrong, cause the HowTo says to select "install nVidia drivers" from a list that I think is supposed to appear here. But - there is no list.
Now, nowhere in the HowTo does it say what to do if there isn't a list or option in YaST. So I join an IRC chatroom #Linux in freenode. I'm ignored completely for about 30 min, I take the hint and try elsewhere.
I try Yahoo linux, solaris, bsd room. Here I impart the above information, am promptly told RTFM, and that I am stupid, and iggyed for being a moron.
Well thank you very much, I think I'll go back to WinXP now where I can at least manage to install nVidia drivers gasp without a manual ! So I give up for a while and do some useful stuff in windows (which works).
Then I decide I am taking the easy way out. Rinse and repeat above.
Ok - third try is the charm, some nice person listens to my problem in yahoo, and tells me that I have to "reload all patches" from the server, and this is not enabled in YaST by default for some reason... and if I don't check this, YaST wasts a long time downloading something, but doesn't actually do anything. Well, I should have guessed! I normally wouldn't reload something unless I had already had some values previously loaded.
I do this, and presto it works! YAY!
Most people I think would have concluded that SuSe is broken, Linux's vaunted community is populated by assholes, and go back to windows not to look back for another 2 years (if ever) and used maybe even ended up with Longhorn.
Ok, this is something that will have to change. Even the yahoo windows rooms aren't this dismissive - far from it in my experiance. There people don't auto ignore you for asking (of all things) "Can I ask a question?" or "How do I download something?". At least these people get some help - they have to act far dumber than I was to get put down and Iggyied.
Maybe MS free supporters expect a much lower IQ, IDK, but they certainly make those looking for help feel more welcome. Linux will never get on the average users machines if they are insulted trying to get the basics to work.
Now, I'm on a quest to try and install something not listed in YaST. Similar results. FYI its Worx
Re:well, according to you he's right! (Score:3, Interesting)
Is this some kind of a joke? Seriously: are you trying to be witty or ironic?
Imagine you use a Mac. You've heard a lot about this program called Foobar.app and you want to give it a try. Where, oh where, do you begin?
You go to the Apple menu and select "Mac OS X Software." Your browser opens and displays a page hosted at apple.com that shows you most software available for the Mac. If Foobar.app isn't right there in front of you--the new, popular stuff is--you type it in the search box. Click, click. It downloads to your computer, decodes, and appears on your desktop as a double-clickable icon. Not an installer, either. The actual Foobar.app program is now on your desktop. If you like it, you can drag it to the Applications folder, or to anywhere else.
Until things work like that in Linux, don't give me any more of that "I don't see what's so hard about it" shit.
It's not impossible to use, it's just slightly harder than windows.
"Impossible to use" is nothing more or less than "I got frustrated with it and moved on to something better." In all your defending, you need to realize that the difference between intuitively obvious and utterly baffling is very small.
Re:Mandrake (Score:3, Interesting)
Either way, since almost all monitors support a fairly small subset of standard modes nowdays there is no excuse for X not being able to handle me plugging in a different monitor every hour in a fashion which is 99% transparent to me... what it does now is fail to load the gui if I plug in a different monitor.
XP no cake walk either - SuSE is easier... (Score:2, Interesting)
This problem is not just limited to my homebuilt machine either. I have a Gateway laptop, and after reinstalling Windows XP, I had to go through a lengthy driver installation procedure that hung in the middle on the first try.
On the other hand, I've been very impressed with SuSE linux. I was a big Red Hat user before they changed their business model. My machine at work is still running RH 7.3. But my home desktop and notebook both have SuSE 9 (notebook 9.1). Installation was very simple. No complicated installation of countless drivers. Even the driver for my NVIDIA video card was available automatically through Yast.
In the Wash. Post article the author states incorrectly that none of the linux distros can automatically repartition your windows drive to setup a dual boot. This is incorrect. SuSE does include whatever the latest version of the partition shrinker software is (I used FIPS for this long ago, but don't know what it is called now). The resizing happens automatically, if you accept the default partitioning scheme. Granted, you still have to be smart enough to defrag your windows partition first and have enough free space at the end of the drive. But even my mom could understand that.