Windows Compatability on the Linux Desktop 626
davecb writes "O'Reilly has been kind enough to publish one of my
how-to articles,
Windows Compatability for the Linux Desktop, about dealing with that 'one last annoying program
than only runs on Windows'. The answer? Run it under Linux and win4lin, and never venture onto the Windows desktop at all. Especially don't run programs via dual-boot, which tempts you to stay and use all those other wonderful programs like Outlook...
Chasing the Windows Rainbow... (Score:3, Interesting)
Too much CLI! (Score:5, Interesting)
Give me DoomIII on Linux and I might switch now.
Give you guys about three years and Microsoft is going to feel the pain to the point they are going to be forced to offer concessions.
I think that day is coming sooner than we think.
Getting started with linux (Score:2, Interesting)
Half a year or so down the road I read an article on one or the other linux sites that said "just switch to it for a few months". So I did. I did get win4lin for that last program (omnipro for me). KMail is very very good, konqueror is just great (gotta love the file preview), the GIMP is excellent, the scanners work (and the colors with vuescan are even better than those I got from photoshop+silverfast windows), OOo works for texts and spreadsheets and compresses its files too - lovely.
I've been running linux for a year or two now. It helps that I use SUSE, which is nicely polished, as distros go.
Re:Chasing the Windows Rainbow... (Score:3, Interesting)
It is the one thing that keeps my rowing club from switching to Linux (actually, there is also the members (financial) administration, but we might find something for that)
We have not figured out how to do anything like this yet. We need the program to collect membership fees and other money owned by members to the club.
Dual Boot (Score:2, Interesting)
> which tempts you to stay and use all those
> other wonderful programs like Outlook...
Hmm, some years back I installed Linux to perform one task. But a couple of days later I started to use Linux for the other things as well and a couple of months later windows was gone with the wipe.
cb
Re:VS.NET (Score:3, Interesting)
On a side note, have you checked out XCode on a recent Mac? I've used that, too, and it is a very nice environment to work in.
Re:Chasing the Windows Rainbow... (Score:2, Interesting)
please name me a GUI based (GTK or qt) ftp client that I can use under Linux.
Nothing (not gFTP, not Kasablanca, not anything!) even remotely touches the open source delights of Filezilla.
Its killer apps like that that keep me under Windows.
(that and the need for decent A/V editing, which I have found to be non-existant under most non Windows/Mac OSes).
dgr
Re:It's the useless games that get me.... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Wine or Qemu (Score:3, Interesting)
I second the thought that QEmu's entire-system-emulation is a great approach. I'm no expert, but it gives me some feeling of being better "sandboxed" so rogue applications don't escape from the emulated system.
But perhaps the coolest, this Fabrice Bellard guy who wrote QEmu is the same guy behind the ffmpeg [bellard.free.fr] library and the TinyCC C compiler, his own emacs clone, and the linmodem project. Quite the impressive guy in the open source world.
Warcraft? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Wine or Qemu (Score:2, Interesting)
It's pretty cool. You can have a debian system and run windows alongside netbsd alonside redhat, each in their
Re:Outlook? (Score:3, Interesting)
My solution? A dual-head box running SuSE 9.0 with Windows stuffed into a vmware box completely covering one monitor. Have to use Windows? Drag the mouse to the right. Get to use Linux? Drag the mouse to the left. Works great. When Windows needs to reboot, it can do so without interrupting my telnet/ssh sessions, XMMS player, Mozilla windows, etc. I only reboot the Linux box when I need to update the kernel. The strange thing? XP actually boots FASTER inside vmware. Just be sure to feed it LOTS of memory.
WRONG (Score:2, Interesting)
Win4Lin (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:...like just running Windows in the first place (Score:3, Interesting)
At work, we have 4 desktop machines running Windows 98, and a file/print/web server running Linux. The Windows machines were purchased years ago, they're cyrix 686 machines running at 200mhz, with 32-64mb of ram. All up, we spent about $5000 or $6000 on hardware way back when, exluding the server - which was a P90 with 16 megs of ram.
The people I work with don't like computers. The existing machines are 'good enough' for the job, and that's that. So, under what circumstances do I buy and install Windows XP on these machines? Or indeed, upgrade them in any way?
I bought a new PC (wow) as a server - an Athlon 2500+ with 512 megs of ram and a 20gb hard drive. The goal was to have all the old clunkers running as LTSP terminals so that they would operate a lot faster - and about a week after I'd got things set up, one of the machines had a hard drive failure. One by one, I've swapped the rest of the machines onto Linux via LTSP, and despite some fun and games it's been smooth sailing since.
Re:...like just running Windows in the first place (Score:2, Interesting)
I have no need to change, so why should I?
>1) Is it *really* more stable? How often can you *really* get the BSOD to come up in XP? I haven't managed yet.
Hm.. since I don't use XP I really couldn't answer this one. But no kernel panics here yet.
>Can you get the uptime I've experienced with Windows on Linux? Probably. Can you get the same uptime and still have sound support? Maybe. Can you do it with the grand total of around 2 hours of configuration necessary?
Hm.. that depends, sometimes I get my favourite desktop fully configured and with all *MY* settings and stuff with a simple reboot. I just take my Knoppix-cd and boot the damn thing with it. Of course it takes some time to compile your custom cd, but I think it's worth the effort.
>2) Is it *really* more secure, or does it just invite fewer attacks? Yes, I know Outlook is terrible, but that's not the actual Windows OS, nor does it need to be installed.
I've been told by the MS-zealots, that the problem isn't really Outlook, but Outlook Express. And from what I've heard it does come with default installation and it's next to impossible to get rid of.
(Of course I might be wrong.)
But since the article was about migrating away from Windows, I'd think there has been other reasons for the change than just coolness factor.
Better migration (Score:3, Interesting)
Sorry, that's not it at all ... (Score:1, Interesting)
Everyone seems to be missing what he meant by "that 'one last annoying program than only runs on Windows'"--he did NOT mean some specific program (like MS Project, which he used as an example in his article).
Rather, he meant that one last program that YOU use that has been keeping you from switching entirely to Linux. The one you have to reboot into Windows for, because there is no good Linux alternative. It's a different program for everyone.
OK... here goes (Score:5, Interesting)
1. Is it really more stable? Sure has been for me (though I don't run XP... I've got a bit of a beef with their "Product Activation," since I change out hardware almost as often as I change my socks).
2. More secure? Oh yes... I'd say definitely fewer attacks. You can argue whether there's a selection bias with the number of windows systems out there, but the vast numbers of attacks/viruses/worms still stands. Besides, even if some 1337 linux worm comes along and compromises your unpriviliged user account, so what?
3. Aggravation? What aggravation? I've got a bunch of neighbors, friends, and family members running redhat and mandrake linux. Setup these days is no problem... and once installed and configured, you don't have to do too terribly much.
I don't think linux is perfect for everyone either... but the look of wonder on a win98 or winME user's face once they start using a nice KDE desktop under Mandrake warms my heart, particularly once they find out that they don't have to sweat the lastest windows Worm-du-jour.
After I've rescued/recovered someone's hosed windows system a few times, they always ask me what I use. I hand them a knoppix CD, tell them to try it out for a few days, and let me know if they're interested. You'd be surprised what an eye-opening experience that is for many windows users...
Re:VS.NET (Score:2, Interesting)
Personally, I prefer vi, and good heavens I would use emacs ahead of an IDE. But while I refuse to make generalisations, I know I am not alone.
Re:Other Soloutions... (Score:3, Interesting)
I am going to feel this... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:The table of equivalents (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:What About Heavy-Duty Software? (Score:3, Interesting)
Keeping in mind that I`m a newbie, don`t know hell about linux (not even what are or how to create symlinks - what the heck are these?) I`m guessing that WINE might just be able to run your Max with no problems! Give it a try, you ain`t got anything to lose but some of your time!
Re:...like just running Windows in the first place (Score:3, Interesting)
Personally, I use it exclusively and I've never had it crash, catch a virus, get any kind of spyware/malware (other than tracker cookies). It runs quite fast unless I'm doing a whole bunch of CPU and memory intensive stuff simultaneously: Running AutoCAD, running MD5CRK in the background, burning a CD, playing music, and having 6 or 7 pages open/loading in FireFox - all at the same time (Plus other typical services like antivirus and such). Usually at that point AutoCAD's regen starts to take a little time and Firefox gets a little jittery on the scrolling but that's about it. Specs: 1.5GHz P4 with 128MB RAM. Performance wise I'm quite satisfied.
The machine I'm on now has also been running for about four months. I just 'lock' it at night to keep people from screwing with it. When I get in the next day I just turn on my monitor, type in my password and it's like I never left.
=Smidge=
Re:VS.NET (Score:1, Interesting)
My problem is map software and modems (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:...like just running Windows in the first place (Score:1, Interesting)
You say it is the distributions fault, where it clearly isn't. You have little or no understanding of the differences between DirectX and OpenGL or why DirectX doesn't play nice with Linux. You have little to no understanding about what Wine* is. If you want someone to blame, blame the game developers who don't develop native Linux clients, the developers who strictly use DirectX only. Those are your stubborn elitists who refuse to change.
Rdesktop for small workgroups (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Chasing the Windows Rainbow... (Score:3, Interesting)
Bochs is the opensource x86 emulator/virtulizer.
There are performance problems on modern (XP era) applications, but older stuff will run just fine.
not a problem here... (Score:2, Interesting)
We're at a point where you just need an Admin (me) that will install/configure/maintain Linux as either a server or Desktop enviroment. I'm playing with Slackware/Swaret (again) as a primary desktop, and with it auto updating to current weekly (daily if you need), that solution is the best overall for me, while still using my fav overall distro. I'm ready to move everyone over to Linux on the desktop. Sure, maybe the marketing folks *need* MS Office, maybe some of the VPs *want* to stay with it, so let them have Windows XP if they want em, while we save on any Lic costs from 90% of the company, we're way ahead of where we were.
After that, we just need to stop paying for the 'priviledge' of all the Exchange problems (locking for no reason, getting stung by worms/viruii) and go with a Linux backend there.
Call me an optimist, but I think we're ready for Linux on the desktop, and beyond.
CB
Re:Chasing the Windows Rainbow... (Score:4, Interesting)
Can you produce for me a native English speaker who, seeing those sentences, will "presmue (sic) that they are talking about something-for-nothing"?
Similarly:
I breathe free air.
I drink free soda.
I use free software.
Can you produce for me a native English speaker who is not an OSS-using geek who, seeing thse sentences, will presume that they are talking about free as in liberty?
Re:VS.NET (Score:3, Interesting)
Oddly enough, I tend to be one of those guys who annoys people around the office who show me some crazy new feature in some cool IDE they're trying to learn, and I show them how I've been doing it in vim.
Tab completion? I tried it, but I much prefer ^P and ^N for forward and backwards searching through my symbol completions in general. I'm not big on the wavy lines thing, but I use quickfix mode with java with ant integration to have vim help me fix up any whole-project problems I create with ``minor'' changes.
And when debugging, you can drag the current execution spot up a few lines, change some code, then let it run over the spot again without re-compiling or restarting the process! Thats fuckin unbelievable.
OK, I admit it, sometimes I use xcode (formerly project builder) when doing objective C work. It does all this kind of stuff as well as automatic compile farms. Of course, the UI isn't required once you get your project set up.
The development tools under windows blow everything else out of the water.
NeXTSTEP's offerings were always superior to MS's offerings. If VS is any better than xcode in this regard, it can't possibly be significant enough to make a difference.
I still use vim for any work I do that doesn't have an actual GUI. I'm still more productive than anyone on my team who uses an IDE. I do have an emacs user on my team who is embarassing me at times, though. She's late for work today, though, so I have a competitive advantage.
Getting back to the article (Score:1, Interesting)
Instead of bloating your system much more to get two OSes, an emulator in between and some application working (and resist the temptation to try to get Outlook to work with the emulator *shudder*) just secure your windows box a little more. Enable the XP firewall or buy a third party solution (probably cheaper and less complex than setting up linux and the emulator). If you're concerned enough about security to consider linux, consider not running every executable you come accross.
There are tons of Linux distros out there (a good thing) and linux has gotten a lot better at making installations quick and painless. Well, unless you have to figure out how to manually set up your display or soundcard or some other device the linux distro you chose doesn't like on the system you're trying to get it to run on. On the other hand, Windows is quick and easy to set up, you're already familiar with it, it comes with the drivers or you get them with your computer, install disc, helpdesk guy you bother with every problem you have, etc. So why switch from windows to linux in the first place if you're an average user with windows needs?
Sure, the hope is that as the number of windows users switching to linux grow and need apps that are only developed for Windows (not just the one listed in the article, but also apps that are not mainstream, and often developed in-house to run on windows), those apps or alternatives will show up that run natively on Linux. But, with the demand for these ports being so low, why bother? Why wouldn't the developer think "if they switched to linux, then they can get the emulator working and we don't have to do a damn thing to make our app linux friendly"
A lot of the slashdot crowd likes linux, because, well, it's an impressive operating system. You have more freedom. You can stick it to the man. But the poor guy that needs to run MS Project will have a seizure when he screws something up and will get less help after breaking his linux than he would after breaking his windows. He won't be able to get the same technical support from the next door neighbor's teenager who can put the MS Project shortcut back on the desktop after mysteriously disappearing due to a cat jumping on the keyboard.