Sun Java Desktop System Release 2 196
Jahf writes "Sun is putting out Java Desktop System Release 2. Some overview information is in this article while more technical information about the new management solutions are in this one. Quickly: the desktop environment is essentially the same, though Sun has added support for GIMLET (allows one to change the current input language on a per-window basis), officially supported Japanese and Korean translations, and is including a Java-based online update client. The bigger changes are management items that are normally hidden from the end-user but valuable to the Admin. Configuration Manager allows admins to setup client preferences for remote desktops and 'protect' those settings to create policies. Sun Control Station (the last remaining Sun product from the Cobalt acquisition) can work as a network imaging server, can monitor remote desktops, and can work as a patch server (both by pushing patches out to many desktops and by serving as an online update server for clients who need to pull additional packages)."
Java for the desktop... (Score:4, Funny)
Funny and right on... (Score:5, Interesting)
Different experience... (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm currently running JDS on a ThinkPad T20: PIII 700 w/ 256MB RAM. I don't play games or watch movies on it - DVD playback is choppy (go figure) - but it works very well for everyday office tasks and as a portable network assessment platform. Even StarOffice seems to run smoothly and without undue delay. *shrug* I wouldn't want to compile anything large on it (so gentoo is not an option (zing!)) but smaller sources (like Xine) take only a couple minutes.
Before some goober snorts "a couple minutes t
Re:Funny and right on... (Score:2)
Now that that's out of the way...try java 1.5. I think you'll see a huge speed improvement.
Fast is Relative (Score:2)
For Sun to be viewed as "fast" by these unfortunate souls that cannot learn rudimentary do's and don'ts (and recovery) all they have to do is block invasive software.
I strongly suspect that if my friend installed JD on their systems they'd say "boy that is fast!"
Re:Troll? What? (Score:2)
Anyway, to stay on topic, I tested it in a VMWare machine, and it runs as fast as the gnome running on my machine.
Maybe this is also because it has "java" in its name and that there's nothing "java" with it (except a few apps and the logo)
Re:Java for the desktop... (Score:2)
The main benefit to upgrading... (Score:3, Funny)
Sun Control Station 2.0 (Score:4, Informative)
for some reason they rewrote the whole thing in Java.
And the new one doesn't come bundled with hardware.
Re:Sun Control Station 2.0 (Score:3, Informative)
There was an HTML "wrapper" interface (a la RaQ 550 etc), but the bulk of the interface was Java.
Computers don't "run" Java (Score:4, Funny)
I'm here all day, folks.
Re:Computers don't "run" Java (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Computers don't "run" Java (Score:2)
And yet it seems to crawl.
wbs.
Attention to user experience is good sign (Score:5, Interesting)
Recommended Server Requirements (Score:5, Informative)
* 2 Ghz Intel Compatible processor or better
* 1GB of RAM
* 160 GB hard drive
* 10/200 Base-T Ethernet network interface
Wonder what a 200BaseT nic is... Can't say I've ever seen this before.
Re:Recommended Server Requirements (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Recommended Server Requirements (Score:2, Funny)
That was a typo, it should read '160GB available disk space'.
Re:Recommended Server Requirements (Score:4, Funny)
Token Ring revival! w00t!
Re:I've been hanging around here too long (Score:2)
Re:Recommended Server Requirements (Score:2)
--dave
Re:Recommended Server Requirements (Score:2)
Re:Recommended Server Requirements (Score:3, Informative)
The parent is just troll, and the moderators bought it because they didn't read the article either!
BTW, recomended is:
Not bad.
Re:Recommended Server Requirements (Score:2)
I was pointing to the fact that there is no such thing as a 10/200 BaseT nic.
Re:Recommended Server Requirements (Score:2)
None the less, the 200 is obviously a typo, and it doesn't make sense as a "minimum" spec anyway, why require it to do 10? if you need 100, why not just a 100 BaseT nic requirement? If 10 is okay, why put in the 100?
Blinders! (Score:5, Funny)
Sun's software now includes blinders! Why wont my opponet debate this issue? Is it because he's a horse... or because he has BLINDERS ON! No periphial vision! *snap* *snap* *snap*
Re:Blinders! (Score:3, Insightful)
Personally after doing desktop tech for so long this is a GOOD! thing.
80% of workstation problems come from user intervention. Lock downs keep out virsus and spyware. Of course Betty in accounting will hate you because she can't have her cute little screen saver of cats climbing around her machine.
I would imagine.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Modern businesses are bad about abusing employees, they want trained rats, not human beings. For some people,
Although it's fun to joke about Java... (Score:5, Interesting)
In an entire environment based on and tailored toward Java, such as Sun's Java Desktop System, the language really shines. Rapid setup and deployment benefits system administrators, while developer productivity is enhanced by the optimization of the develop, execute, debug and deploy cycle.
This type of setup just makes sense when you're dealing with a network of disparate hardware and software. The more that can be made common and interoperable, the easier it is to get things done. And it looks like Sun Java Desktop System has only gotten more affordable and easy to use.
Re:Although it's fun to joke about Java... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Although it's fun to joke about Java... (Score:2, Insightful)
Under the hood it is all the gnome community stuff (which is all written in C) with a bit of polish and perhpas a couple extra management apps. I guess the management apps are written in Java but thats it.
Re:Although it's fun to joke about Java... (Score:5, Interesting)
Just to back you up, my group does some pretty extensive image and dataset processing using Java based code. While most of the images are a couple hundred megabytes in size, it's not unusual for a several gigabyte image to to be processed too. Processing time is definitely a concern of ours and we've found the more recent Java versions to perform quite nicely.
As for the Java Desktop System, I think the bigest issues it faces are related to hardware support (device drivers) from the various vendors.
For as much complaining people here seem to do against Sun, remember how some of the popular open source projects got large chunks of their code (Apache Jakarta [apache.org]and Open Office [openoffice.org] are two that come to mind). I know that Sun hasn't open sourced everything, but at least they follow open standards.
Re:Although it's fun to joke about Java... (Score:3, Informative)
Java 1.5 templates will not solve this situation, unfortunately.
And of course, Swing is slow because of the bloated architecture.
Re:Although it's fun to joke about Java... (Score:3, Insightful)
There is improvement in some applications; the Oracle enterprise manager in the 9i client does have a much better feel than the 8i client for instance.
Still, comparing a web application (for instance) written in .jsp/java beans with one written in perl/php/asp/ColdFusion/et. al. usually results in scrapping the .jsp/java beans code.
So I'll agree that there have been
Re:Although it's fun to joke about Java... (Score:2)
I know very little about the JDS but I'm curious.
Re:Although it's fun to joke about Java... (Score:4, Interesting)
1. Java's main flaw is that it can't be swapped out (or it can, but the garbage collector brings it all right back in) and takes a shitload of memory. I.e., it's ok for small utilities, or small games like MegaMek, or a single IDE loaded on a 1 GB machine. But try loading even 1 MB more java stuff than the machine has RAM, and it'll crawl.
We actually have to develop server-side java stuff here, but the catch is that we also get to test them locally. Between a local copy of WebSphere, Eclipse, and a few other utilities, you'd be surprised how easy you can get a 1 GB machine to thrash through swap. (And that's more RAM than Joe User would have.) Most of us have learned to get around that by not keeping too much stuff loaded. (Already an exercise that with C programs would not be necessary.)
A coleague obviously hasn't, or rather can't. He also has to keep a Java based XML editor open, and stuff like that. His machine always feels slower than an old ZX Spectrum or Commodore 64. He and another coleague had, last I've heard, requested permission to buy their own computers with 2 GB RAM for work.
Yeah, that't gotta be the future of desktop environments to inflict upon Joe User.
2. Again: Sun's Java Desktop, is _not_ a Java based desktop. It's a bog standard Gnome desktop with a new theme and the exact same JVM that you'd get with any other Linux distro. It's not more geared towards Java than any other Linux distro you could buy.
Now I can see some advantages to it, but "geared towards Java" is _not_ one of them. "Java" is no more than a marketting buzzword there. It's just like Intel's bunnies telling you that a Pentium makes your Internet go faster.
Re:Although it's fun to joke about Java... (Score:2, Informative)
The reason why it is so slow is not java, it's the latency introduced by GTK (on which GNOME is based). In fact the Java Desktop has nothing to do with Java.
> native display rendering speedups as Eclipse does
native display rendering isn't java anymore.
Re:Although it's fun to joke about Java... (Score:2, Funny)
Good argument.
Isn't this just plain ol' linux? (Score:5, Interesting)
Desktop Features
o A GNOME desktop environment
o StarOffice Productivity Suite
o Mozilla web browser
o Evolution mail directory and calendar clients
o Instant Messaging support for multiple services
o Linux operating system
o Java System Update Services
o Globalization, Internationalization and Localization Support
Developer Tools
o Java 2 Standard Edition (J2SE) v1.4.2_04, including the Java SDK
o Sun Java Studio Standard 5 update 1 Technology Preview
o NetBeans IDE version 3.6
System Management Tools and Client Configuration Tools
o The Java Desktop System Configuration Manager
o Sun Control Station 2.1
o The Remote Desktop Takeover
With a few exceptions, such as the System management tools, most of these features can be found in a normal linux system. I'm obviously missing something here? (I hope - enlighten me please)
Re:Isn't this just plain ol' linux? (Score:5, Insightful)
What Sun does next will determine how well this will work. If they're just trying to offer a desktop which they can sell support for, then this won't go much of anywhere.
If they focus on selling certification and support documentation and training, this could make the Linux desktop infinitely more digestible to the enterprise, who want to be able to hire cheap and interchangeable developers and support personnel.
Re:Isn't this just plain ol' linux? (Score:5, Informative)
2. $100 is the base price (actually $50 right now) that gets you one year of updates. You never have to pay another dime unless you want ANOTHER year of updates.
3. Sun's plan is to bundle all of their desktop software into one package. As they add new value (e.g. MSAccess support for StarOffice is in the works), you get those upgrades free.
4. Unlike many ad-hoc distros, JDS is founded upon the idea of being a consolidated desktop.
I will say that at this point JDS is only slightly *different* from SuSE. SuSE may actually be the better pick. However, I do expect that JDS will become a lot more competitive in the future.
Re:Isn't this just plain ol' linux? (Score:1)
Re:Isn't this just plain ol' linux? (Score:1, Insightful)
Review of Sun's Developer Tools (Score:1)
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1583320,00.as p [eweek.com]
-Steve
Re:Isn't this just plain ol' linux? (Score:2, Informative)
"The Java Desktop System is a complete, integrated desktop system that includes everything from the OS to applications. The integrated Linux OS is based on SuSE SLED and is the only Linux distribution which is supported at this time. Future versions will extend platform support to the Solaris SPARC and x86 platforms."
Re:Isn't this just plain ol' linux? (Score:5, Insightful)
Reliable and accountable support?
Re:Isn't this just plain ol' linux? (Score:2)
Sun is a multi-billion(???) dollar company selling a desktop solution that isn't Microsoft or IBM. Corporates may decide to pay Sun rather than do it themselves. Don't forget the average IT guy is lazy. Why do something yourself if you can outsource it?
Re:Isn't this just plain ol' linux? (Score:2)
Re:Isn't this just plain ol' linux? (Score:2)
Re:Isn't this just plain ol' linux? (Score:2)
Re:Isn't this just plain ol' linux? (Score:2)
Re:Isn't this just plain ol' linux? (Score:2)
Re:Warning to potential reviewers: (Score:2)
It's a layer that has possibilities for things. Certainly, if all you wanted was Linux, or FreeBSD, for instance, you could just install that - what the Java Desktop System will give you is the opportunity to integrate the end user's system with other, perhaps larger computers, running other a
Last gasp (Score:2, Insightful)
Almost like your Dad buying a Harley and rediscovering Led Zeppelin.
Trouble is , the rest of us know that he's still an old fart.
Think about this - Google run on 100,000 Linux servers. Sun bought Cobalt in 1999.
Does the phrase "lost opportunity" come to mind?
Re:Last gasp (Score:5, Interesting)
Same with the Java Desktop. Java is AWESOME. A Java Desktop is a Cool Thing. Whether it helps Sun or not is meaningless.
Re:Last gasp (Score:2)
Re:Last gasp (Score:2)
"Yeah, the old man got a new 2034 Harley Z-Rod and rediscovered Perl Jam. He thinks he's cool."
wbs.
Broken GNOME (Score:1, Interesting)
Such editorials are hard to take serious since they are build up on basicly NO deeper knowledge of
And Sun shows it's command of English (Score:2, Insightful)
More Manageable and Secure: Java Desktop System is more secure desktop solution available.
On a more serious note, WHO CARES? It's yet another desktop for people to chose from. Why pay when you can set-up GNOME/KDE to look the same?
Re:And Sun shows it's command of English (Score:3, Funny)
No, it takes real flair and hard work to make Gnome look that bad.
and you show your command of punctuation (Score:2)
Yeah, I know, it's pedantic, but there's no sweeter act of pedantry than correcting a grammar pedant.
jf
Re:and you show your command of punctuation (Score:2)
I think that second comma may be somewhat unnecessary.
jf
Capitalize your initials and use periods between them.
what i don't understand is (Score:2, Interesting)
Seriously, how can they expect desktops to have this much power? You only have those kind of specs on small servers or gaming machines, and if you have a server I don't think you'd go with Java on the desktop, and if you're into games you'd go with Windows.
Not to say it might be a good OS (I haven't tried it) but it just seems far too heavy for their target market.
Re:what i don't understand is (Score:4, Informative)
Nothing Minimum about it... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Nothing Minimum about it... (Score:3, Funny)
The requirements should have clearly specified that the system case should have enough clear space for your Playstation 2 to sit on.
Novell vs Sun (Score:4, Insightful)
Sun and Novell are the top 2 contributors to OpenOffice/Star Office.
Novell's Suse Linux comes with OpenOffice, while Sun Java Desktop comes with StarOffice.
Re:Novell vs Sun (Score:3, Funny)
Wow (Score:4, Funny)
JD4x (Score:2, Informative)
Re:JD4x (Score:2, Informative)
Clarification, Java is a brand (for Sun anyway) (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Clarification, Java is a brand (Score:2)
--dave
This is exactly what the problem with Java is (Score:2)
Re:This is exactly what the problem with Java is (Score:2, Insightful)
For at least a year more than half of the MS product line was called .NET something.
Maybe on the Java branding issue Sun could learn from MS, but IANAMG ( I am not a marketing guy ;-) )
Wow (Score:2)
And for only $100 a year! Oh Boy!
On the bandwagon... (Score:2)
Looks like they've offshored their web design.
worse than java desktop? (Score:2)
Re:Where's the innovation (Score:3, Insightful)
That's like me saying "Since it's GNU/Linux, just call it GNU/Linux".
I'm right, but do most people listen?
No, don't say the "GNU/", it's bad for business. Well, now even the "Linux" bit is bad for business.
Re:Where's the innovation (Score:5, Insightful)
They are probably trying to reduce the amount of effort (and training costs) needed to retrain users that are familar with Windows. Usability is all about having an interface that does what users expect. Right now, they expect it to act like Windows.
Re:Where's the innovation (Score:5, Insightful)
Woah, there. That doesn't even BEGIN to make sense. (unless that's some weird, round about way of saying it doesn't look like MS Windows)
Incidentally, I don't think anyones got any business knocking the windows GUI. There are many things wrong with the Redmond family of operating systems but, to give them their due, they've put a hell of a lot of work into making the desktop work reasonably well.
Re:Where's the innovation (Score:2)
Though one of my peeves is the dumb windows gui for the file types gui.
Considering the importance that file extensions have in windows, doesn't it make sense that this should be its own object in the control panel?
Re:Where's the innovation (Score:2)
Re:Where's the innovation (Score:2)
Re:Where's the innovation (Score:2)
Re:Desktops of SUN, Red Hat, and Novell (Score:1)
Re:Desktops of SUN, Red Hat, and Novell (Score:2)
Re:Desktops of SUN, Red Hat, and Novell (Score:1)
I'm pretty sure Red Hat has not abandoned the corporate desktop linux market, just the consumer desktop linux market. The average non-techie may very well go to work in the near future and use Red Hat rather than Windows. And depending on how successful Red Hat is at this, they may revive the consumer desktop edition. Until then, I believe Fedora is available.
Re:Desktops of SUN, Red Hat, and Novell (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:IT's SUSE Re:Desktops of SUN, Red Hat, and Nove (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Wooptie Dooo (Score:5, Funny)
I'd say Sun is going no where slow. Just like their products.
Re:can you imagine a beowulf cluster using this? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Not impressed (Score:5, Informative)
Although you've been modded as a troll, you are right in large part it seems linux tries to emulate windows. It's not a bad thing, because it allows people to switch when they get too disgruntled with windows. However, the bigger payoff would be if someone developed a desktop enviornment that was BETTER than windows. Not just in preformance, but in look in feel
and that is exactly what sun is trying to do with project looking glass. [sun.com]
Check out some of the movies and screenshots of it if you haven't seen them yet (it's been posted on slashdot) they are pretty badass imo.
Re:Not impressed (Score:2)
> > in innovation instead of lagging, continually
> > trying to replicated some outdated version of
> > windows?
>
> and that is exactly what sun is trying to do with
> project looking glass.
And the obvious follow-up question:
When will the linux desktops going to "lead"
in innovation instead of lagging, continually
trying to replicated some outdated version of
OS X?
Re:Not impressed (Score:2)
They lack the funding required to innovate in most cases. It's far easier to try and recreate and maybe add some enhancements than it is to completely come up with something revolutionary. To do the latter you have to spend a lot of resources on reaserch and development which includes user trials, user feedback and a whole lot of wasted effort on things that don't pan out.
Open source projects don't have a model where they c
Re:Not impressed (Score:2, Insightful)
Please explain the format (yes, a bit offtopic) (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Wow, a "twofer" in the omelette today (Score:4, Informative)
*6.
Q.
Which operating system does the Java Desktop System work with?
A.
The Java Desktop System includes a Linux OS, based on SuSE SLED. Future versions will extend platform support to the Solaris SPARC and x86 platforms.*
Don't try to understand something you don't bother reading few lines of.
+5 MIS-informative
Re:Wow, a "twofer" in the omelette today (Score:2)
No, the Desktop is SuSE based. The admin interface for the Desktop cluster requires RedHat 7.3. They were a bit unclear on that.
Re:Wow, a "twofer" in the omelette today (Score:2, Insightful)
One of the good things with linux is you can run as many GUIs as you want on it or none at all. Even with A GUI interface on a server when you log out to a text prompt the box isn't running a GUI at all. I sure with
Re:YAWLD (Score:4, Insightful)
In fact, I think you'll probably find yourself much happier with windows. You are running windows, aren't you? A little bird told me that it supports your scanner, TV card and your camera!
However, for some of us Linux (or Solaris, etc) is a better option:
Do I own your camera? no.
Do I own your TV card? no.
Do I have your digital camera? no.
Do I have 200 bucks handy to buy a second copy of windows for my second pc? no.
Do I really want to agree to licensing terms that allow MS to pay me 'friendly visits' every no and again? no.
etc.