Element Computer: ION Linux on Linux Hardware 274
JigSaw writes "Well known Lycoris person Jason Spisak left the company to join Element Computer, a new hardware company which now strives to offer the Apple experience on PCs: they sell Linux-certified modern hardware with their own flavor of Debian, ION Linux. ION is a desktop distro and it is developed specifically to work perfectly with the accompanied hardware. Other highlights include usage support (as opposed to installation-only support other distros provide) and system upgrades specific to the exact hardware the user runs. The KDE-based distro will only sell with their hardware as Mike Hjorleifsson says in his interview." (The company was previously mentioned on Slashdot.)
This could work if the price is right (Score:4, Insightful)
Great (Score:3, Insightful)
Not really possible with X86 hardware (Score:1, Insightful)
Linux folks for the most part want to upgrade their hardware, with what they want. No cheapo onboard soundcards and vid cards, etc.
It MIGHT nitch in web/email only systems, but how many of those can you sell to grandma when wally world sells HP's for $499 or less.
I love any idea that promotes linux, but I just don't see this working anywhere.
Re:The "Apple experience"? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Apple experience? (Score:2, Insightful)
Floppys suck - obsolete capacity, obsolete reliability.
I've thrown all of my floppy disks away. None of my home-built machines have a floppy drive. I haven't bought software on floppy in about 8 years.
If I need to boot from another device, I'll boot via CD-ROM. If I need to move a small file: email. If I need to store a lot of files: CD-RW.
Next thing you'll be telling me is that you want dual floppy drives, one 3.5" and one 5.25".
Re:GPL? (Score:4, Insightful)
And btw, the purpose of the GPL is not to restrict what one can do with the source. It is all about sharing your improvements and not getting monetary compensation from it, since the original authors gave it to you for free. A sort of chain reaction.
I can see nothing bad with selling Linux related services.
Diego Rey
Re:GPL? (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't like that a company is using Linux in a way that (seemingly) intentionally keeps its software from being of use to anyone who doesn't buy their product. It seems to go around the purpose of GNU and OSS.
Actually, you have it backwards. This is exactly what the GPL was designed for. This company has snazzy new hardware. Since the company can customize an OS around GNU/Linux, they are saved the millions of dollars requisite to develop a proprietary OS. Now you can buy the base model for $799, instead of $2799. Nevermind that then vendors and OSS projects would have to work on porting their products to the new OS (not likely in many cases) in the case of a new proprietary OS.
It's better for them as a company because they are quicker to market and can make their products more economical. It's better for the users because thay can use a well established, rock solid stable OS with thousands of already available applications.
So what if you can only get the hardware from them? As long as they comply with the GPL (or the licesnse for any app they modify), it's all good.
Re:Apple experience? (Score:3, Insightful)
* Ease of software installation
* Ease of dependency management
* Information consolidation (e.g. iTunes, Sherlock)
* Advanced rendering APIs (Quartz PDF renderer)
* Filesystem integration (double click on a DMG or ISO and it's automatically mounted)
* Filesystem features (move a program on a Mac, and the OS can still open files associated with it.)
Now I understand that these are not easy features to implement. They may not even be what the ION developers want in their system. But if that's the case, they shouldn't be extolling their systems as "like the Mac experience".
Re:Kind of Pricey (Score:4, Insightful)
Well if you want to download several install CDs, try to hunt down drivers, and edit a bunch of
buy Windows XP?? (Score:1, Insightful)
I don't know which one is worse, Micorsoft Windows or ION Linux that limit your computer. this is just sad.
Re:Secret developers (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Un-fricken-believable (Score:3, Insightful)
No, I think that should be read as business plans that do not make you (You) a customer. Apple has carved out a very profitable niche doing what other people won't. I wasn't part of apple's audience for a long time - didn't have the money for it to be an option. Now that I have the money I don't have the time to deal with linux. I'll gladly fork out (aparently a lot, too) so that my computer just works when I turn it on.
I think this is what Redhat should have done - picked open source for the gems, made it bulletproof, picked out some hardware and ran with it. They didn't - and nobody has. I thought about doing what these guys are doing, and I think they'll get themselves a very successful niche if the whole package is an attractive by.
Don't take me for a zealot - I use openbsd, linux, windows, solaris, and OSX in addition to QNX on a near daily basis. Apple hit themselves a nice little (multi billion $) niche.
That is not a failed business model. If you want to see failed business models, go here [sun.com]. Apple is eating THEIR lunch. Mmm, tasty.
Re:This could work if the price is right (Score:3, Insightful)
Does Dell, Toshiba, IBM, HP/Compaq, or Microsoft support software they don't ship?
You can install anything you want...they just do not support that additional software.
Over 800 packages are installed on my system, most from my distribution but some are not. A few select programs aren't even installed as packages, and I've done some customization of the kernel I'm running. Where should the line be drawn for support in my case?
As I see it, if they offer support beyond making sure the hardware functions with the supporting software they provide, that's a bonus.
If the USB ports don't work, and I'm using software and hardware they support, I expect them to figure it out. If I change things, the responsibility becomes mine. Anything else is someone else's job...not Element's.
Re:Apple experience? (Score:1, Insightful)
Wow, you must have never heard of debian and apt-get!
Filesystem integration?
Kde and gnome can be configured to do automounting (heck with the proper not-hard-to-find app, windows does this)!
Information Consolidation?
Move them to the appropriate directories yourself (not hard)
And as for providing an 'Apple Expirience' I've heard from resellers and pissed off users NO THANKS!
Down for the count. (Score:3, Insightful)
I see it's been said (derisively) that this is no new idea. While no one will content the accuracy of that statement, this is a new approach to offering a cohesive and well planned Linux box.
And that's a GOOD thing. How many times have we read the trolls complaining to the heavens how Linux would surely find better success if only it didn't take those extra few minutes to research your new hardware; if only it was better integrated, on both the hardware and the software level.
It appears we're all going to see if those complaints were truly the thing holding Linux back. As a former Mac user, who has been converted to Linux on account of my ability to pick it apart at the deepest or most shallow levels, the only thing I do truly miss was the slick unity Apple provided for it's consumers. Let's see if these guys can do the same.
I certainly won't wait with baited breath, but this is a cool and worthy idea. Good luck guys/gals.
Re:Un-fricken-believable (Score:3, Insightful)
I personally have no problem running too much hardware on linux anyway. I think the open-source community is taking quite a nice chunk out of that, and things improve with each new kernel release.
I just don't see a need for this distribution, especially when Mandrake is running fine on my hardware (which isn't all mainstream either) and I can just throw Mandrake 5 bones when I can't afford much else.
Really Cool (Score:4, Insightful)
It is good to see a company doing the work for people who want to run Linux... without worries of hardware support. Not only is it good for users, but it is good for general hardware support in Linux. The more vendors see people (or resellers) making their purchasing decisions based on how good the Linux drivers are for their hardware, the better the drivers will get.
-matthew
Re:Kind of Pricey (Score:2, Insightful)
You mean like everyone else does? Interesting concept.
Re:What a match! (Score:3, Insightful)
I mean, isn't this what Dell, HP, etc do? Each machine that these companies sell have their slightly modified version of Windows (mostly drivers and stuff) so that you don't need configure Windows to run on the machine.
So, yeah, you could run vanilla windows on an HP machine, but you'd have to install some drivers. Similarly, you could install Debian on a Element Computer box, but you'd have to install some drivers.
Re:Apple experience? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's much easier. You don't need to know where to get the application, you don't need to go download the DMG file. Everything done for you, just type "apt-get install mozilla" and wait. Local mirrors of everything for added speed.
In addition, it takes care of dependencies (although I acknowledge that the Apple mechanism of "One-file-for-the-app" is a good alternate solution to this a lot of the time), and allows you to go and upgrade any or all installed applications without having to remember where you got it, go and find it, download it again etc etc.
Even further, you can do full searches of available applications using apt-cache, allowing you to quickly and easily locate, for example, and mp3 player or a video encoder immediately available for installation.
APT really is very very good. All kudos to Apple for many of their usability features, but in this one area Debians devotion to Free software has given it leverage which has proven difficult for other operating systems to match, a supply of almost all the software you'll ever need on your system, right here, right now.
Re:Secret developers (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Un-fricken-believable (Score:4, Insightful)
Holding Apple back? What do you think has differentiated Apple them from beige-box-wintel-mediocrity? All Element needs is a successful brandname and they are on their way to success. Even if it is Apple-like success, it wouldn't be bad.
-matthew
Apple clones (Score:3, Insightful)
Had Power Computing and all those mac clone companies existed before Apple, I doubt even Apple would have gotten off the ground...by extension...
Actually..... (Score:4, Insightful)
If ION can put together a slick looking and feeling desktop system with linux nicely tuned on it then I will be *glad* to give them my money. And I have been setting up linux on laptops and workstations for a number of years now.
Why would I pay them money when I can just buy a Dell and do the same?
Two reasons.
Because I'm not always satisfied with the hardware that Dell chooses and I'll be very happy if I don't have to download another $%*# experimental winmodem driver, get the right hardware acceleration components loaded into my X server or figure out why the cd/rw only appears as a cd.
I love linux and love the control I have over the entire system but I hate having to wrestle with configuration issues all the time. If by default my laptop came well tuned and looking pretty I would pay the ION folks some $$$$.
And so would my company.
And so would my friend's companies.
Cool. I hope they get their prices and the the look of their distro right.
Oh, and add a few we more servers to the cluster......
--
Dan Glauser
J2EE Architect
http://www.roundboxmedia.com
Understand? (Score:2, Insightful)
Mac OSX is specifically targetted for the MAC.
So: When MAC OSX installs, it's binaries are optimized for the G4 architecture.
This is a bit more awkward for the PC. Although Intel and AMD share the same core instruction set, there are of course differences. Others like Transmeta are completely different.
This presents a problem for M$ as they like to keep things i386 borg'd!
And therin lies the power of Linux and Open source in general. If you compile source code for the specific target architecture you're working with, you will optimize to the max. And ion are taking this a step further. By making their mission/goal to optimize all software for the specific h/w it's running on, they are sure moving towards the smoothest dam resposiveness you could want in an O.S.
It should make ion linux the choice for scientific applications where performance is essential.
I use Mandrake but I really like the sound of Ion. I think I'll move over when I get my next PC.
Floppies do suck! (Score:3, Insightful)
Apple made considerations to eliminate the floppy, PC makers have not. PCs still don't have standardized boot protocols for stuff like USB or FireWire, so they NEED floppies to make stuff like BIOS flashes easy to use.
The best thing about adminning on a platform with no floppy? Never having to tell anyone that their disk ate their work.
Re:Kind of Pricey (Score:3, Insightful)
What Element is doing is making Linux machines targeted at people that aren't alrady more than halfway to IT people. You know, one of those things that is supposedly holding Linuc back from being adopted by mainstream arguments.
In everything I have read that started out "Linux would be great for the desktop market if..." They start off with installs and end up at support. Well, here we have a machine that my mother could use for her email, word processing, etc with phone support that isn't my phone number.
I'm wondering what kind of alterations they made to applications, but if they attempted to "wizard"-ize things like first load of the email client and stuff like that (can't get on the website, but have been there before) than they could market to the group of people that think it's all magic buttons and lights inside the case.
Re:That might work when... (Score:3, Insightful)