Linux in Canada 284
Flxstr writes "Lots of Linux articles in Canada's national newspaper today, starting with Calgary switching from SUN Unix to Red Hat Linux. Another article discusses whether Linux will become a target for viruses as its popularity grows. This article mentions how Linux costs less, so more firms are becoming interested. Finally, an article discusses how pushes by major vendors such as IBM, HP, and others is speeding acceptance of Linux over other alternatives. Altogether, some good articles for any CIO's desk."
Linux, eh? (Score:4, Funny)
What's that, a Pengiun? There ain't no penguins in Canada!
Re:Linux, eh? (Score:2)
Eat your heart out, Antarctica.
Re:Linux, eh? (Score:3, Funny)
If you think those are vicious then you should be really impressed: we have Republicans !
Run for your lives Cananda!
Re:Linux, eh? (Score:2)
Dude, that is like, so funny, 'cause there's like, no funny words in American speech, dude.
Re:Linux, eh? (Score:3, Interesting)
Here's the link [slashdot.org]
Re:It's an awk! (Score:2)
However, he's been in the States long enough to mispronounce the last letter of the alphabet.
Linux of course costs less (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Linux of course costs less (Score:2)
Re:Linux of course costs less (Score:2)
What I really want to know is does the localized version of Canadian Linux end all querries with , eh?
Also given Canadian law regarding the dual language requirements, since Linux is not a product for sale does it still have to support Canadian French?
Proprietary in one form or the other (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Proprietary in one form or the other (Score:2)
Re:Proprietary in one form or the other (Score:3, Insightful)
Viruses spread by stupidity not OS'es. (Score:4, Insightful)
As it becomes easier to use and more useful to dumbasses who still open attachments they aren't expecting, it will likely be targeted more by virus writers.
Re:Viruses spread by stupidity not OS'es. (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, but The important question is : will the stupid user ruin everyone else's life? With Linux, I think, a lesser chance than Windoze.
Re:Viruses spread by stupidity not OS'es. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Viruses spread by stupidity not OS'es. (Score:2, Informative)
Agreed, but that'll be on an @home basis. Companies will not allow this kind of behaviour, as the first thing any admin learns on Unix in general is to swallow the peice of paper the root password came on.
Long live the sudo in this respect, it simply eradicates the need for a more complex (and thoroughly unuseable in Windows case) privilege system. Maybe users will be able to install packages for personal use, but only using urpmi, pointed at a regulated rpm database,m legislated by the admin.
Re:Viruses spread by stupidity not OS'es. (Score:2)
I have yet to see a machine, regardless of OS, that I couldn't root within minutes, given physical access. So having your users not have root access on their local machines is just like the privacy lock on the bathroom door... It helps polite people stay polite but really doesn't keep anybody out who wants in...
Re:Viruses spread by stupidity not OS'es. (Score:5, Insightful)
Many people will be confused by the security model of unix and run as root all the time so they don't have to su to traceroute, make install, etc...
Re:Viruses spread by stupidity not OS'es. (Score:4, Interesting)
The idea of a username/password combo to protect resources is quickly becoming a thing of the past, as the trend to recognition of the individual continues.
I for one can't wait to do away with uname/password headaches.
For example, in a PKI/Smart Card/Biometric authentication system, your rights are based on who you are and not what uname/pass you have.
In this scenario, what are you going to do?
Impose some artificial barrier to privledge escalation?
Any attempt will become nothing more than a "Are you _sure_ you want to execute this?."
These kind of protections are already in windows, and users will inevitably click "yes".
Re:Viruses spread by stupidity not OS'es. (Score:3, Insightful)
The argument people make about users (particularly home users) running with privileged accounts is generally based on the fact that poo
Re:Viruses spread by stupidity not OS'es. (Score:3, Insightful)
Even sci-fi recognizes that.
A wildly optimistic sci-fi show such as star trek, which uses biometric identification with the computer for most things, still asks for a password to enable the self-destruct sequence.
Also, biometrics are a lot easier to steal than most people recognize. The problem is- once your biometric data is compromised, its kinda hard to change your auth tokens isnt it?
Re:Viruses spread by stupidity not OS'es. (Score:2)
In the end, the user (assuming a home user), does have the root rights, even if they have to type in 50 username/password combos.
This is why I called it an artificial barrier.
Any user who wants to run some attachment to an email that looks like its from their buddy will do it. At that point all the prompts and context switching just become an annoyance to the user, rather than a security mechan
Re:Viruses spread by stupidity not OS'es. (Score:3, Interesting)
virus mails, wether they come from windows or linux(root or non-root) users doesn't make much diffrence.
Re:Viruses spread by stupidity not OS'es. (Score:4, Insightful)
It's possible to secure against stupidity - well, not completely, but better than MS has. Given a decent SELinux install, and an email app written for it, running an email virus would get a nice dialog:
'Tis executable has attempted to access files "addressbook.xml" and ports "25, 3169" which it is not currently priviliged to access. Please run the executable under a different domain and role to execute it properly'
Sure, someone will be dumb enough to run it anyway, but that would put a second thought into the minds of many a dumb user.
Jedidiah.
Re:Viruses spread by stupidity not OS'es. (Score:2)
As far as I know there are no linux e-mail apps that run a file automatically. Files have to be specifically marked as executable and I know of no way to do that within an e-mail. So you would have to be not just stupid but brain dead to save the attachment, mark it as executable, and than click on it before it could possibly have an affect. Someone
Re:Viruses spread by stupidity not OS'es. (Score:3, Informative)
SELinux will be standard in Fedora Core 2.
As for tools - check out Tresys, they make tools for configuring SELinux policies. Likewise, the NSA provides a variety of userland tools set up to work with SElinux. If more people would start coding the the system it can only help. So, all you open source developers - get busy working on SELinux
Privilages (Score:2)
a) Lindows doesn't become the primarily popular distro
b) Users will *not* run as root - see (a)
c) Root SSH disabled (most distros do enable root SSH by default) or no bootup SSH server
Open SSH ports (or NFS for that matter, but it generally needs some more setting up) with root access and easy passwords would be the gold for virus writers. The same for root-level user access. Give the users their sandbox, let them play in it, and
Re:Viruses spread by stupidity not OS'es. (Score:2)
Viruses are spread by the stupidity of developer's that code apps that run executable attachments automatically or by a single click.
There was a time when I could tell people in all seriousness that they COULDN'T be infected by a virus through e-mail. Than Outlook came along and all hell broke loose. Outlook is the most popular so I blame it's developers but it could be any e-mail app that automatically runs
Re:Viruses spread by stupidity not OS'es. (Score:3, Informative)
Damn it all (Score:5, Funny)
According to the Bank of Canada's website US$699 ~= CA$917.79
Re:Damn it all (Score:3, Funny)
I wonder which exchange rate Calgary would choose
Re:Damn it all (Score:2)
Re:Damn it all (Score:2)
A more favourable environment for Linux (Score:5, Interesting)
I used to be proud to be an American because of our technological culture
Re:A more favourable environment for Linux (Score:5, Interesting)
or the encryption/munitions legislation... why do you think the openbsd team resides in canada? (calgary in fact... i can see theo's house from my office window right now :))
Re:A more favourable environment for Linux (Score:2)
Re:A more favourable environment for Linux (Score:2)
Re:A more favourable environment for Linux (Score:5, Insightful)
First off, for national defense or other confidential government affairs, linux would be the logical way to go -- its completely open source. The government could hire a Canadian company to customise and secure a linux kernel for specialised functions. If Canada buys Windows, however, there's no guarantees about security, and lets be honest...I find it perfectly reasonable to assume that there's a nudge-nudge/wink-wink backdoor in microsoft products for the NSA or CIA to leverage if necessary.
The other issue is languages. French isn't very popular in the US, but about 20% of our population speaks it and we're officially a bilingual country. We also have a whole territory (e.g. think 'province-lite') that is native speaking (Nunavut). When Windows 2000 came out here, the French version was several months behind...and it was more Parisienne French instead of Quebecois French, which was what was promised.
Finally, I think there's huge savings to get off the 'upgrade now' software assurance lifecycle. For government terminal functions (e.g. get a new driver's license) baseline it, secure it, and let it run for 10 years. No need to refresh you hardware and software every 3 years. Hell, refresh every 5 years and you've increased your equity by 40%.
Re:A more favourable environment for Linux (Score:5, Interesting)
So true... don't know how much time I lost because the french Windows install default to AZERTY instead of QWERTY keyboard...
"Dammit, Where was the 'M' Key again?"
The devil is in the details
Windows install (Score:2)
Re:Windows install (Score:3, Informative)
at least it doesn't echo *s :)
Re:A more favourable environment for Linux (Score:4, Interesting)
Don't confuse regional dialect with formal language. I can find you some southern US drawls or english cockney that you would never understand!
PS In general, Parissiene French have a very demeaning attitude towards the colonial french. I'm sure the differences were exaggerated as a matter of social convention.
More viruses for Linux? (Score:5, Insightful)
Even with the distro installers creating a normal acount its still worryinglt common. Run as root and you are more likely to be pwned in a nasty way.
Re:More viruses for Linux? (Score:2)
Re:More viruses for Linux? (Score:4, Insightful)
No modern distro (Suse 9, Mandrake 10 etc.) lets you run as root now. They specifically exclude root from the login screen and even if you do manage to achieve root login, your menu and desktop options are severely restricted to maintenance tasks only.
you really have to be extremely determined to browse the net and do your email as root these days...
Re:More viruses for Linux? (Score:2)
/me blushes. (Score:5, Interesting)
A (Mostly) Proud Calgarian.
Re:/me blushes. (Score:2)
I think all the terminals were gone too, to make room for PCs. I actually enjoyed working on the VT220s, using screen and vi. Talking to my peers, however, I was in the minority.
AFAIK the backend servers are still Sun hardware (Sun still does NFS best!). And those rooms with the Sparcstation
Re:/me blushes. (Score:2)
my question lies with avoiding sun. to me, they represent extremely reliable, however overpriced, machines with good operating systems. im not terribly sold on solaris, i think linux could do as well on the hardware, but i think the sparc hardware is of superior quality and design. our older ultras around here do way more than an x86 from the same era could. obviously i am still in school, so i am bi
Re:/me blushes. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:/me blushes. (Score:2)
"Canada's national newspaper?" (Score:4, Informative)
Re:"Canada's national newspaper?" (Score:5, Funny)
I'm guessing the poster is from Toronto.
Re:"Canada's national newspaper?" (Score:2)
Maybe not. It could be Conrad Black.
Re:"Canada's national newspaper?" (Score:3, Insightful)
What are you talking about? Sure, CanWest-Global is Winnipeg-based, but the mention of "Canada's national newspaper" in the the article was clearly referred to the Globe and Mail, since it linked to the Globe in multiple places.
PLEASE... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:PLEASE... (Score:2)
someone's trying to talk from a virus writer's POV
Re:PLEASE... (Score:3, Interesting)
1) A basic virus doesn't need root permissions. It can wipe out _your_ files (which are the most precious files on the system - you can get the system files by reinstalling). It can sit in your crontab and periodically try to spread. It can write your
2) Do you install software? Does that mean you run an install script (directly or through a package manager) as root? Have you checked the script code for virii?
Re:PLEASE... (Score:2)
You almost HAVE to run as Admin on Windows to operate without a snag in the even of a simple system tweak. Shoot - you can even adjust power management as a standard user.
Re:Windows has ACLs you know. (Score:2)
Less monoculture (Score:5, Insightful)
There's another advantage that they don't mention. Linux plays nicely with the BSDs, Solaris, OS X, and most other operating systems, so it really is easier to have a diverse environment - not just diverse distributions, but diverse operating systems and architectures.
Yes, Windows will work okay on a heterogenous network, but it doesn't really like it much. Compared to the shared UNIX foundations of Linux, OS X and BSD it is much easier to have all of them happily running side by side on the network sharing resources. Linux or Solaris workstations for the research division, Macs for the designers, Linux and/or BSD for the servers, developers get to choose their platform... and maybe even a nice pretty GNOME or KDE desktop for the paper pushers.
Jedidiah.
Re:Less monoculture (Score:5, Interesting)
Linux plays nicely with the BSDs, Solaris, OS X, and most other operating systems
I was off work, ill, and working from home (I'm a web-developer - SunONE-ASP on Raq boxes) and needed my girlfriend's XP laptop to talk to my server. Normally that's no problem - server runs Samba. But I didn't have SunONE ASP, so I had to use Microsoft IIS ASP (the server's dual-boot). Could I get a Windows XP laptop to talk to a Windows 2000 server? Could I hell! Now I accept I'm not the most capable Windows admin, but c'mon! How hard can it be!
Moral: Linux plays nice with other operating systems. Windows barely gets along with earlier versions of Windows.
Re:Less monoculture (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Less monoculture (Score:2)
It's a development server, at home. I have better things to do with money/tech than devote it to work.
...but yes, I am an idiot.
Re:Less monoculture (Score:2)
True. That's a function of having open standards at the interface level. Standards that Windows is just as welcome to make use of - they just choose not to.
The idea of homogeneous interface specifications and heterogeneous implementations i
virus-targeting, and the cause of the problem (Score:5, Insightful)
Can someone balance that FUD with equivalent numbers from MacOS X?? It's a lot more popular than Linux, and both haven't been plagued with viruses(yet) in widely publicised numbers.
The bit about multi-user was nice, but user-education about the benefits of proper privilege separation is very low, and needs to be addressed by those people who think changing OSes is a solution to the social problem of viruses. Of course, a lot of CIOs would rather use viruses to justify spending half a mil to change servers, than 10000$ on training... Even on equivalent returns...
That's also a social factor.
linux in canadian universities... (Score:3, Insightful)
Viruses on Linux? Yeah, right. (Score:5, Insightful)
With Windows, it's open, input password, extract, run. Wow. You're boned. Simple, ain't it?
Linux is secure simply because no one runs as root for daily work. Those who do are either idiots or have _really_ strong bowels.
Re:Viruses on Linux? Yeah, right. (Score:2)
There's something else that does help though: for a file to be executed under Linux, it has to have the executable access permission set, which is normally not the case when you download/save a file from a browser or e-mail program. As long as mail programs take very good care not to execute things, this means we're pretty safe after all.
But it would
Re:Viruses on Linux? Yeah, right. (Score:3, Insightful)
The main difficulty faced by someone writing a virus for Linux is getting someone to run it in the first place. It's pretty hard to persuade a KMail user, for example, to execute a virus. They have to save an attachment and give it execute permission first.
Rik
User stupidity (Score:3, Interesting)
"Install: Bonzai buddy will be installed to C:\program files\pwned"
You get something like:
"Install: Bonzai buddy will be installed to
"Error, you need to run as root to install this program. Please enter your root password:"
*****
"Thank you. Installation will now continue"
You don't think it will happen? Just wait. Safety comes in that the user doesn't always get the root passwor
Re:Viruses on Linux? Yeah, right. (Score:2)
Erm, believe it or not, there are a few people in the world who run Windows day to day with user accounts, and switch to administrator to do installations, etc.
The kind of user that gives his account admin privs under windows is the same user who would run as root on a linux box, because they don't know any better or they really don't care. These individuals will never be protected by any operating system.
PS. I believe Lindows runs as root by default.
Re:Viruses on Linux? Yeah, right. (Score:2)
Viruses ?? Say "worms".
Given that majority of "mal-ware" in past few months was "worm-ware", it is not a very alien thought for any other OS.
Worms rely on social engineering and tricking unsuspecting users into running them. Few points to note on what worms do-
1. Open an Open Relay on port xyz
2. DDoS
3. Key logger
4. Act as Backdoor/Trojan
Mind that, NONE of these activities "need" root priviledges... and a worm that can open a backdoor hole so that you can later be exploited through any N number of local
Re:Viruses on Linux? Yeah, right. (Score:2)
Something is wrong here (Score:5, Funny)
Real World Linux offers discounted LPIC exams..but (Score:3, Informative)
The Linux Professional Institute (LPI) is offering discounted LPIC exam certifications [lpi.org] at the event, BUT here's the CATCH.
They're offering the exams at the same time the Keynote Speaches are being delivered...I guess the braniacs at LPI figured that tech's are a bunch of 'properller-heads' and won't understand the business of Linux...
I think I'm just gonna get an RHCT and screw the LPIC.
Not in the online edition ... (Score:2, Informative)
a) Anecdotes about random Canadian companies that still prefer Microsoft products.
b) a big TCO diagram pulled from an IDC study "conducted for Microsoft."
Clever Microsoft, focussing on their core business market:
CIOs with no critical thinking skills
Mayo! (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Mayo! (Score:2)
What about viruses? (Score:2)
I say bring it on.
Linux systems might be vulnerable to root exploits (as are all things on a network), but I want to see how well we would do against viruses.
As we've all seen, Windows systems are very vulnerable to fire-and-forget attacks, which pick up momentum as they infect. I want to see how well an automated attack can propagate itself against Linux.
Advanced IT (Score:5, Insightful)
If the Oil economy went down, so did the rest of Alberta. Bad.
Over the past 10 years, business diversity has increased a tremendous amount; the oil industry is still a large part of our economy, but not so large that we'd be hammered to death if the price of oil dropped substantially. It would hurt, but much less than it would have 10 years ago.
Part of the reason for this success is the high level of technology in this province. Calgary especially is very high tech, and this latest story just enforces that point. Businesses tend to move fairly quickly here, and are able to take advantages of the benefits of newer technology.
Through the use of and research into technology, Calgary is both a very good place to work and live.
Dancing Dog? :-( (Score:3, Funny)
that is very disrespectful. how about a dancing penguin?
We may be ahead of the curve on this... (Score:3, Informative)
Yes, it will and distros like Lindows that run the default user as root had better get their act together. Poor judgement calls like that could make Linux the next security joke right behind Microsoft.
I just installed Mandrake 10.0 and noticed that it offers an open source anti-virus product called "CLAM." According to the docs this product will automatically update its virus definition files. So assuming that these files are kept current we may be way ahead of the curve on this.
Re:We may be ahead of the curve on this... (Score:2, Informative)
I just installed Mandrake 10.0 and noticed that it offers an open source anti-virus product called "CLAM." [...] So assuming that these files are kept current we may be way ahead of the curve on this.
The only trouble is, because there are no viruses for Linux in the wild, we don't have virus scanners for them. ClamAV is a scanner for Windows viruses. I use it to keep our mailserver from filling up with Windows viruses, even though it's a FreeBSD server and we only use Linux and MacOSX clients.
Good Day, Eh! (Score:2, Funny)
How 'bout we make our own brand called Maple Leaf Linux or Red Toque. Or maybe we can call it Gretzky Linux and charge 99 Canadian for it.
Heck in Edmonton the best one-two combination was Gretzky to Ku
Standardization (Score:2)
This is probably redundant by now... (Score:3, Interesting)
Virus (Score:3, Insightful)
As soon as linux is one of the easiest targets, then we will see lots of them. Until that time, well...
Virus' Due to install base?!? (Score:4, Insightful)
From what I have read and understand, the install base has nothing to do with it (or very little at least). The problem is that MS software is so easy to crack.
For example, MS Exchange has roughly a 85 million install base. That email system has been hit hard over the past several years. Lotus Notes has not been hit nearly as hard (if at all) during the same time frame. If install base had anything to do with it, then one would assume that Lotus Notes has a substantially lower install base than MS Exchange. The fact is that Lotus Notes has a comparable install base (of roughly 90 million).
It's the insecure software that is the problem, people!
Diversity is No Defense (Score:2)
It cuts on both ends. More diversity means less chance that _all_ your systems will be compromised, but increases the chance that some of them will. I think you are better of using one system that you know how to secure and keep secure well.
In my case, that would be any open-source *NIX - *NIX because I know the workings reasonably well, and open-source because I can verify it's not doing something sneaky.
Calgary on Linux? WTF??!!! (Score:2)
I don't know what part of the city's infrastructure has moved to Linux, but it's certainly not all of it. This article seems a bit...blind.
Journalists: STOP the FUD......Pretty Please!! (Score:3, Interesting)
If you use GPL code, you publish somewhere the modifications you make under the GPL.
THAT'S IT. END OF STORY. JOURNALISTS, YOU CAN GO HOME NOW.
Instead, we get heart-wrenching human interest CRAP like the following:
(From speeding acceptance of linux [globetechnology.com])
Linux evangelists have prophesied for years that the open-source operating system would challenge Microsoft Corp.'s Windows. But it wasn't until the past year or so, when International Business Machines Corp., Novell Inc. and Hewlett-Packard Co. seriously threw their collective and considerable weight behind it, that a challenge became a real possibility.
Victory, however, will not come cheaply.
The problem is that the future of Linux was never dependent on its quality. If quality were all that is required to win, everyone would be watching movies on Beta videotape and working on Apple Macintosh computers.
The problem is cultural.
The open-source community, an ad-hoc worldwide network of programmers dedicated to creating free software, has been too shrill, evangelistic and hot-eyed for corporate interests to deal with; the ferocity of their anger at proprietary software became the Linux community's own worst enemy -- nobody wants to gamble a corporate future on fanatics, no matter how worthy their bible.
Why do journalists slather this "human community" BS on top of this very simple idea?
It's like they're trying to freak people out! How completely idiotic is that???!!!
Re:'Canada's national newspaper' !?!?! (Score:5, Funny)
Not only do we have more than one newspaper, we are also proud to announce that we have more than one telephone, as well as more than one automobile!
Re:'Canada's national newspaper' !?!?! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:'Canada's national newspaper' !?!?! (Score:2, Funny)
Re:'Canada's national newspaper' !?!?! (Score:4, Informative)
Re:'Canada's national newspaper' !?!?! (Score:2)
Hell, I'm even thinking of getting a second igloo.
Re:Tux would NOT wear a suit! (Score:3, Funny)
What say to that, eh?
Re:Tux would NOT wear a suit! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Linux and Mac OS Inevitably Will be Virus Infec (Score:2)