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Linux Business Businesses SuSE Ximian

Novell Makes More Open Source Moves 351

Posted by timothy from the all-star-cast dept.
cbnet2004 writes "In what can be considered a win for Linux, Novell has announced NetWare will cease to exist as a standalone product by the end of the year. However, the CEO says: 'We are still committed to it and it is not going away. Our new Open Enterprise Server offering will have two components to it: SuSE Linux Enterprise Server and NetWare. NetWare is here for a long time to come.'" Read on for more bits from Novell's BrainShare conference, including a planned company-wide move to Linux.

Roger Foss writes "Novell has announced it will release its cross platform iFolder file synchronization software as open source. This is pretty cool: far more transparent and easier to use than Unison or some of those friendly Rsync variants. iFolder does multi-master delta synchronization and is user friendly. The source software will be available at Novell's own Forge site and release under the GPL. This sure beats Novell's earlier open source efforts, when they released their proprietary IPX protocol stuff years ago. For those who want to try it, there's a live demo site that I doubt would withstand slashdotting."

Finally, mj01nir writes "According to Miguel de Icaza's web log, Chris Stone just announced that Novell will be moving the whole company to OpenOffice by the end of the year, and to Linux on the desktop a year after.
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Novell Makes More Open Source Moves More

Novell Makes More Open Source Moves

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  • Guess it's not the right time to become a CNE (Score:5, Interesting)

    by darthcamaro ( 735685 ) on Monday March 22, 2004 @11:46PM (#8641592)
    funny how things change, a few years ago I thought I had it made cause i had a CNE and now it's not worth crap....

    • Don't sweat it (Score:5, Insightful)

      by BiggerIsBetter ( 682164 ) on Monday March 22, 2004 @11:49PM (#8641616)
      A couple of years from now, all the RHCEs will be bummed because the latest OpenBEOS certification will be the new hotness... More serously though, certifications such as these are just another product for OS vendors to sell.

      • Re:Don't sweat it (Score:5, Insightful)

        by dzelenka ( 630044 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @01:44AM (#8642290) Journal
        Yeah, I work in a Novell shop and really hesitated to put in the hours to get a CNE. I had already let me MSCE expire. I just cringed every time I realized that the tests were both a cash cow for the OS companies and a tool for their marketing department. I ended up getting an OS agnostic CISSP and specialized in the security side of things.

        Now it looks like my years of studying and using Linux are going to put me ahead of my coworkers who trudged down the CNE path.

        It's good to have a life choice pay off once in a while!
    • Don't be too quick to discount it just yet. Aside from the places that just won't upgrade till hell freezes over, It appears you have a choice between a Netware kernel or a Linux kernel in their upcoming products.

      Oddly enough I was talking about this to someone the other day and at the time based on other releases and info from Novell I had originally thought that Netware the OS would be quashed and would be reimplemented as a service layer on top of a Linux distro. I really didn't see having interchangea

    • Re:Guess it's not the right time to become a CNE (Score:5, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 22, 2004 @11:55PM (#8641656)
      I got an MCSE few years ago, and now am rolling in cash, own two brand new cars and sleeping with a different girl every night.

      On the other hand, your kernel is more stable, I hear, and I envy you for that.

    • Re:Guess it's not the right time to become a CNE (Score:5, Informative)

      by King_TJ ( 85913 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @01:06AM (#8642032) Journal
      I just attended a "computer professionals" meeting here in St. Louis, where a Novell rep. gave a presentation on Novell's product line and roadmap for the future.

      As I understand it, the next version of Netware is going to give users the option to install with a traditional Novell kernel at the core of it, or alternately, a Linux kernel.

      We asked him why they didn't just "go all the way" and turn Netware into a "value added layer" on top of Linux, rather than bothering with continued support of the old Netware kernel.

      Basically, he said that *could* happen in the distant (5+ years away) future - but currently, the old kernel is considered by many to be "robust" and "tried and true", so they'd be hesitant to switch to a Linux kernel in the short term future. Still too many enterprise customers with a "If it works, why change it?" mentality...

      In any case, I think Linux may breathe some new life into the Novell Netware line - rather than phase it out. Novell seems interested in such things as the ability to plug in Linux-based additions to Netware, rather than having only .NLM modules written specifically for Netware as options. (EG. Novell shops could turn servers into such things as SQL database servers as well as just file/print servers, without resorting to purchasing additional boxes to do it.)

      I wouldn't toss the CNE out as "worthless" just yet. It may enjoy a small resurgence in usefulness, if Novell plays their cards right.

  • Are they hiring? (Score:5, Funny)

    by twigles ( 756194 ) on Monday March 22, 2004 @11:49PM (#8641613)
    Oh man, Linux and OpenOffice in a big US company!

    It just makes me so happy .

    In other news, SCO does something dispicable to ruin my good mood.

    • Re:Are they hiring? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by RetiredMidn ( 441788 ) * on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @12:30AM (#8641864) Homepage
      C'mon in, the water's fine!

      I work at Novell; I have installed OpenOffice.org, uninstalled MSOffice, and my laptop dual-boots Suse and XP (only until I can eliminate the last few dependencies caused by my development requirements).

      I am a Mac user at home, and I am so psyched that I am this close to a zero-Microsoft environment!

  • Its One Hell Of A Good Start (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Korgan ( 101803 ) on Monday March 22, 2004 @11:49PM (#8641614) Homepage
    I have to admit I'm surprised its taken Novell this long to announce their move to Linux + OpenOffice.org given how long they've now had Ximian in the fold. I would've expected them to have announced their intention to do so a lot sooner.

    This is a huge coup. Not only are IBM doing the same thing with their desktops (although they're porting MSOffice instead of using a Free office suite) but with Novell, one of the oldest Networking platform companies still surviving, announcing this on top of all their other efforts, people are really going to start taking notice and realising that maybe Linux truly is Prime Time for businesses now.

    Then again... So far its only been companies that have a lot to do with Linux and Linux based services that have announced this. Would be very nice if someone like HP, Dell, or Gateway came out and got on the bandwagon. That would hold a lot more weight with the average IT manager or C-level management.

    Still, slow small steps turn to huge gallops rather quickly in the IT world :-)

    • Re:Its One Hell Of A Good Start (Score:5, Informative)

      by kephunk ( 35920 ) on Monday March 22, 2004 @11:52PM (#8641635)
      IBM is NOT porting MS Office to Linux. They are currently using it in conjuction with WINE. The ultimate goal would be for them to use OpenOffice.org as well.
    • I knew it would eventually happen when I saw they went with xserver for a gui in nw5. I'd almost say they took way too long, but maybe not. Hopefully they sat back, looked at Linux & open source, and came up with a good plan for implementation. In the businesses that I do work for (5-25 users), Netware holds a lot of weight. They gave up their Netware servers reluctantly, and would love any excuse to go back. Heck, I'm even getting excited about it, and I haven't cared much for Netware since the 4.

  • In a related story... (Score:5, Funny)

    by capz loc ( 752940 ) <capzloc.gmail@com> on Monday March 22, 2004 @11:50PM (#8641624)
    Millions of Linux geeks across the globe orgasm in unison.

  • I was laughed at... (Score:5, Informative)

    by BJZQ8 ( 644168 ) on Monday March 22, 2004 @11:51PM (#8641629) Homepage Journal
    I was laughed at by some "consultants" that had formerly worked in my school district, when I started converting their Novell systems over to Linux. Now that it's done, and things work better than ever, Novell decides to convert itself over to Linux wholesale...who's laughing now?

    • Some people still run Novell networks (Score:5, Interesting)

      by DaveAtFraud ( 460127 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @01:04AM (#8642021) Homepage Journal
      ... The ones who care about security.

      I work for a comapny that makes a network monitoring product so my sample may be skewed. Regardless, a lot of people would probably be surprised how many networks still use Novell to handle their network logins, file sharing, etc. becuase its more secure than Windows. Some of this may be security through obscurity but the answer we consistently get when we ask people why they still run Netware is that its more secure.
      • many networks still use Novell to handle their network logins, file sharing, etc. becuase its more secure than Windows.

        Nice. So how come every year or two, our internal penetration testers crack some luser's PC, then use that to take advantage of the fact that the Netware clinet stores credentails in RAM IN THE CLEAR? Whiich means they own our network, due to synchonization between the Netware and NT passwords. Which hurts when the luser is also an admin of some sort.

        • Netware clinet stores credentails in RAM IN THE CLEAR?

          Novell's Client32 never has and never will transmit the password without encryption by default. The password stored in eDir is encrypted and so is the one used to compare sent by the client. cat /etc/shadow for an example. You've either been misinformed or your full of it.
          • Nothing you have said contradicts the prior poster who said that the credentials are stored in memory. This implies that they're talking about searching memory for a string, reading n bytes, and using the resulting data for some type of attack.

  • Kind of sad... (Score:5, Informative)

    by weave ( 48069 ) * on Monday March 22, 2004 @11:51PM (#8641631) Journal
    As an old IT guy, I remember Novell from the early days. I still remember the hype of version 2 where it added support for fault-tolerant mirroring and would take full advantage of the new 286 processors.

    Gessh...

  • GNOME? C#? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Vargasan ( 610063 ) <swhiskenNO@SPAMrogers.com> on Monday March 22, 2004 @11:55PM (#8641662) Homepage
    Did anyone else notice that the iFolder project page only mentions GNOME?

    iFolder: integrated file sharing in the GNOME, Windows, and OS X desktops.

    Also, iFolder is written in C#. I guess that comes with the territory.

    Development Status: 2 - Pre-Alpha
    Environment: Win32 (MS Windows), Gnome
    Intended Audience: Developers, End Users/Desktop, System Administrators
    License: GNU General Public License (GPL)
    Operating System: MacOS, Windows, Linux
    Programming Language: C#
    Topic: File Sharing, Gnome, Filesystems

  • Grammer tells us something.... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by TheOtherKiwi ( 743507 ) on Monday March 22, 2004 @11:56PM (#8641664) Homepage Journal
    ...but I'm not sure what...

    Novell has announced NetWare will cease to exist as a standalone product

    Um, "cease to exist" means a lot more than "cease to exist as a standalone product" in fact, they are opposite meanings. The highlighting emphasises the negative...I think this is a great announcement that sends a confused message. Hey they are adopting Linux more strongly, thats good right? They are not dropping NetWare, thats good for current NetWare users.

    The glass is half full...

  • Finally (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Macfox ( 50100 ) * on Monday March 22, 2004 @11:56PM (#8641665)
    A brave move, but a welcomed one at that. It's going to be interesting next 12 months to see if Novell has made the right move.

    Netware is a solid platform and proven its stability, where Windows has failed. On the other hand Novells 1st generation software hasn't always been the best.

    Will the Netware zealots adopt the linux based services quick enough for Novell to cover its investment? Lets hope....Time will tell.

    • Re:Finally (Score:4, Interesting)

      by jmulvey ( 233344 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @12:05AM (#8641723)
      Netware is a solid platform and proven its stability, where Windows has failed.

      Not sure about that one, chief. File & Print services have become a commodity service. I mean, freaking Microsoft Exchange (a mail product) can do File services. Novell has stood still for way too long. I remember back in '97 getting my CNE for Novell 4.11. Today, NetWare 6 is practically the exact same system.

      Novell has for too long denied the value of the application server. Now they are being forced to make choices because it has finally come down to do-or-die for them. Sure, it's good to see that the company, when finally scared witless can make the right decision.

      But unfortunately, I think innovation is an area where Microsoft has simply kicked Novell's ass. And in this case Novell has nobody to blame but themselves for sitting on their hands.

      Sure Novell still has superior File & Print capability, that isn't enough anymore to float a boat the size of Novell.

      • Re:Finally (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Macfox ( 50100 ) *
        I think innovation is an area where Microsoft has simply kicked Novell's ass.

        Innovation? NDS, Zenworks, Border manager... Where was AD, SMS and ISA then?

        Sheeezzeees, AD doesn't even have role based objects yet suitable for application deployment.

        Agreed there's not a lot of room for innovation that can happen in the File and Print arena, but that doesn't mean Novell doesn't innovate at all.

        • Re:Finally (Score:3, Insightful)

          by _Sprocket_ ( 42527 )


          Innovation? NDS, Zenworks, Border manager... Where was AD, SMS and ISA then?

          I think what he means is that Microsoft has been better at marketing (or leveraging their dominance in other areas - much the same thing).

      • Re:Finally (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Ath ( 643782 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @03:50AM (#8642752)
        Netware is the product that contains the file and print services.

        Novell is a company that has a whole range of products, including Netware.

        And while I agree that file and print services are treated like a commodity now, Novell has kicked Microsoft's ass in innovation in that area.

        Ever manage trustee rights on Netware versus NT? NT uses the same crap from the LAN Manager days, which is basically made up of hidden files which contain trustee information. Try blocking access to a single file three levels deep to a single user. With Netware, you can do it. With Microsoft's offerings, you cannot.

        iFolder? Take a look at iFolder and tell me that Microsoft has kicked Novell's ass in file service innovation. It does BYTE level diff syncronization. So if you have a 20MB Powerpoint presentation and you change one word in one slide, it only syncronizes the small change. Microsoft's solution? Syncronize the whole file.

        Print services are a commodity too. But compare NDPS with Microsoft's print services. NDPS has so much more administrative functionality.

        Sorry, but to say Netware 6 (and 6.5 is the current release) is the same as 4.11 is a statement only made by someone who is ignorant on the topic. The Netware kernel may not have significant changes, but the services running on top of it are amazing. I recommend that you actually look into it before spreading such inaccurate information.

        If your point is only one about perception, I agree with you. File and print services are treated like a commodity. But don't start making statements about Microsoft innovating in those areas when, in fact, they haven't done anything since NT 3.5 came out and they support pushing print drivers to the client ... but on only NT clients.

  • Novell's Direction (Score:5, Interesting)

    by corngrower ( 738661 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @12:00AM (#8641694) Journal
    Netware has had its heyday. When customers found out they needed TCP/IP to internetwork, the days of a strictly local area network, as NetWare were numbered.

    With their purchases of Ximian and SuSE last year, it was pretty clear that Novell managment saw the need to take their company in a new direction. Novell chooses to embrace the new world. SCO tries to fight against it.
    • xpx/spx is still faster on the LAN than TCP/IP and alot of orgainzations use it for internal traffic. And NetWare is on relaese 6.5, TCP/IP hase been in since 4.11

    • Re:Novell's Direction (Score:4, Informative)

      by askegg ( 599634 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @01:14AM (#8642089)
      You are partly correct, but there are a couple of points to make:

      1) IPX/SPX is a routable protocol, so it is not limited to the LAN.

      2) IPX/SPX is better than TCP/IP in mnay respects, but the Unix community was committed to a non-proprietory protocol.

      3) Early versions of Windows used NetBIOS, which is no good for the routed world.

      4) Short sighted managers figured since they have Microsoft on the desktop in front of them, doesn't it make sense to have a Microsoft Server?

      • Re:Novell's Direction (Score:3, Insightful)

        by fm6 ( 162816 )
        IPX/SPX is better than TCP/IP in mnay respects, but the Unix community was committed to a non-proprietory protocol.
        That should read "the internetworking community". We think of TCP/IP as a Unix thing, because of the pervasive influence of Berkeley's protocol stack. But it's always been widely used on other platforms, and originally didn't run on Unix at all [livinginternet.com].
    • > Netware has had its heyday. When customers found out they needed TCP/IP to internetwork, the days of a strictly local area network, as NetWare were numbered.

      Netware has supported TCP/IP on both the client and server for ages...it was first added to one of the 3.xx versions. At that time, Netware's method for advertising services (SAP) used frequent networkwide broadcasts, making it poorly suited to large networks. Netware has evolved to keep pace with the needs of large networks, but the combined

  • It's kind of strange.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by dubdays ( 410710 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @12:01AM (#8641700)

    I just got a position as the IT director at my company. They've been using Netware for years. Just before the SuSE/Novell news, I was planning to switch to SuSE for all server applications. Even bought some hardware to try it out. Now, I'm thinking about using those Netware licenses a little while longer....

    Hey, think I can trade one or two of those in for a boxed copy of 9.1 pro??? We can all dream, I suppose...

  • Stupid question probably (Score:4, Interesting)

    by modder ( 722270 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @12:01AM (#8641704)
    Sorry, but I don't know much about netware. The article talks about a netware "kernel" version.

    How do they "integrate" this with Linux, exactly? (or am I missing something.)
    • Simple. NetWare is a kernel Linux is a kernel Novell's plan is to put all of the services such as eDirectory, iFolder, iPrint, portal services, etc onto either kernel. I think this is a great concept because it gives choices to customers.

    • Re:Stupid question probably (Score:5, Informative)

      by Degrees ( 220395 ) <degrees@gerisch.COWme minus herbivore> on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @12:54AM (#8641984) Homepage Journal
      A couple years ago, under Eric Schmidt, Novell started moving away from IPX/SPX and toward TCP/IP. Essentially, they had to re-write everything. But (to the smarter people at Novell) this was an opportunity - it let them separate the "services" from the transport. Thus, "NetWare" has really become another set of services, on top of (whatever) protocol you want.

      If you were to put a sniffer on my NetWare 5 network, you would see the File and Print services (and NCP services) are TCP/IP packets. The only thing that forces me to run IPX are the stupid JetDirect cards. But I digress.

      Currently, the NetWare OS is a set of NLMs (NetWare Loadable Modules). This is what they talk about when they say the NetWare 'kernel'. I'm pretty sure it is C code and some Assembler.

      The plan is that when you install NetWare 7, you will get your choice of 'kernels' - either the old NLM based one, or the new Linux 2.6 based one.

      And, since all the NetWare services will be / can be running on Linux - those services can be integrated into a Linux distibution.

      The most valuable Novell service is its eDirectory. They also have an application distribution product, ZENWorks; and of course their email system, GroupWise; a whole set of products that use the Directory for tailored access (BorderManager firewall, a web-portal product, biometric security, single-sign-on password management, iFolder file synchronization, and more).

      So the 'integration' is perhaps better described as porting what they do to both platforms. Your choice of kernel - but you will still be running eDirectory and other Novell services.

      Did I explain that well enough?

  • Now there's an interesting offer... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Coryoth ( 254751 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @12:03AM (#8641719) Homepage Journal
    From the article:

    But if Microsoft open-sourced Windows, which Messman said he did not think would happen as this was a huge cash cow for the Redmond, Wash., software company, Novell would help its customers use open-source Windows if this happened and they wanted it, he added.

    If DeBeers starts giving away diamonds for free, we'll be sure to make sure our clients get some. In the event that a magic fairy inserts $50 billion into our bank account, we'll share that with our clients.

    Sure. Whatever.

    Jedidiah.
    • It's just a little corporate humor like Sun's offer of "assistance" to IBM for a Java Desktop migration. I suppose IBM's open source Java noises are a joke in return. I really doubt Messman believes there will be an open source Windows; he was just having a little fun.

  • that's some good news (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @12:05AM (#8641725)
    with all the corporate support for OSS related projects, it is becoming a real contender on the server side against Microsoft. I wonder how much this eats into Microsoft's server sales they were counting on. Looks like all the "unix conversions" MS was counting on to continue their grow isn't going to happen. In fact looks they're gonna get hurt. The only real cash cow left for MS will be windows and office. Feel like the writing is on the way for the gradual and slow shift from world leader to just another player. MS won't die, but it will become less important as time goes on.

  • iFolder is really cool (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Degrees ( 220395 ) <degrees@gerisch.COWme minus herbivore> on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @12:05AM (#8641726) Homepage Journal
    And the only thing missing was a Linux client, so this is good news.

    It will be nice when the NetWare server gets full Linux compatiblity. Really, it will be a Linux server that supports NetWare services - but the distinction won't matter.

    Personally, I would like to see the NetWare editor ported to Linux. I can't stand vi, and there really isn't a simple console (text-mode) editor geared for DOS/Windows users available on Linux. The NetWare EDIT program still fits the bill as arcane enough to not be yet-another-DOS-Edit clone, but does simple editing very easily. Cut-and-pastes between files, too. Its just a matter liking what you know.

    • ## quote
      I can't stand vi, and there really isn't a simple console (text-mode) editor geared for DOS/Windows users available on Linux.
      ## end

      I am sure you will get a hundred replies pointing you to simple editors for linux. But I would just like to point out my favorite simple text editor nano [nano-editor.org]

      It is actually becoming pretty standard on linux distributions (gentoo and debian)

      It is similar to the old DOS edit and is a clone of a text editor called pico.
      • I've been getting used to pico. I's still inexperienced enough that I'm clumsy at it. If it were a complete clone of the DOS/Windows edit, I'd use it, because I "think" in terms of File, eXit or File saveAs. So I want to hit Alt-F, X - but need (for pico) to just hit Control-X. Its better than vi, but I still stumble enough that it frustrates me. Its a personal problem.

        The NetWare editor keystrokes are ingrained enough that I could use it with ease - which is what I'm hoping for.

    • Is the NetWare editor the same ed.exe that came with NWDOS7? As I recall, it had lots of nice features in a simple package, including the ability to grab the screen. Also had some strange bugs which was why I didn't stick with it (tho by now I don't recall what they were).

  • That's it, Novell. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @12:06AM (#8641732)
    I have gone from not caring about a single thing Novell has done to them being one of my favorite companies, ever.

    Buying Suse and Ximian, moving to Linux as a desktop, with OpenOffice.org? Then cancelling their most popular product for Linux? They seem very, very committed to F/OSS.

    This has got to be the first time I've ever said this about a company's reaction to Linux on slashdot, but they just, somehow, gained a customer, and a recommendation to friends.

    Congrats Novell, you've won my support, and the support of the entire Linux community.

  • Nice (Score:5, Interesting)

    by BCW2 ( 168187 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @12:08AM (#8641744) Journal
    I like Novell. In fact the rights and permissions are just like Unix or Linux: You have nothing until someone gives it to you.

    Isn't M$ major flaw in that area? You have everything until someone takes it away.

    A secure system or network is based on a sound philosophy. Notice the difference!

    • Re:Nice (Score:5, Interesting)

      by ejdmoo ( 193585 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @12:52AM (#8641972)
      NTFS is not that way at all. Initial permissions are based on basically two things:
      1. If you own the file, you get full control.
      2. The rest of the permissions are *inherited* from their parent, assuming the parent is set up to propogate it's permissions. If you don't want to give everyone permissions to files in a certain folder, you have that folder set not to allow propogation.

      The fact is that linux (well, more properly, the associated file systems) are very limited in their permissions. It is often desirable, in a proper setup, to have the right people get permissions automatically, without having to give it to them! NTFS has advanced features that do a good job of staying out of the way until you need them.

      *duck*

      • Re:Nice (Score:4, Interesting)

        by askegg ( 599634 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @01:22AM (#8642151)
        Yes, except that (in typical MS style) the ACL's are stamped onto EVERY folder and file. Making changes to file system security consumes vast amounts of CPU and thrashes the HDD. Plus, you can't assign secuity based on the AD structure (everyone is sales has read access to this directory). Only groups and users will do. Microsoft file system security os only a little better than Linux. Both still are missing very granular rights - try revoking permissions to list, read, rename, delete, copy or execute individually on these platforms.

  • I still need convincing... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Rick Zeman ( 15628 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @12:11AM (#8641752)
    ...other that moving applications from NLM to ELF, I don't see any giant advantages to this on the server end. We already have apache, tomcat, ssh, etc, etc for Netware.
    And on the desktop, I have memories of Novell trying to take on MS once before and failing horribly. I'm skeptical. I can't see how any "synergy" with Linux will make Netware a better product than it already is--aside from the PR buzz it's getting and the goodwill from the Linux community.
    • Novell no longer has to spend time creating a netware kernel, they can get all of the advantages that Linux gives as it gets better without Novell being the only ones doing the work.

      Sure, Netware has apache, tomcat, ssh, and whilst I don't know about the timing of those examples, it was ages after Linux had it that netware had MySQL as an app and I'd imagine there are a heap of other examples of apps that run on linux that don't have netware versions.

      We use Netware, and it has some really great featur
    • NetWare has always been excellent at file and print but not so good as an application server. If they can run NetWare on the linux kernel and GNU infrastructure, they can take advantage of the multitude of server apps that are available on the platform.

    • Re:I still need convincing... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by fferreres ( 525414 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @12:56AM (#8641991)
      The only difference this time, is many companies against MS for the first time on a single plataform push. That is, SUN, IBM, Novell, Sony (their are losing control of music distribution w/Linux, XBox a threat, etc.) Phillips, Oracle, Intel, SGI, Governments ... and many others already aligned or getting ready for it.

      This is not the same as IBM pushing OS/2, Novell Netware, SUN Solaris (as mandated OS), etc.

      Adn there is nothing Microsoft can do, because if MS wants to grow further, which is dificult, they need to pick many battles at once, and thats what they are actually doing, putting 70% of the IT SW and SRV companies against them. They need Oracle DB market, SUNs java (.NET), Novell Netware (LAN, they got them with NT), IBM's AIX and OS/2 (already done), the music industry, the hardware control (signed drivers? DRM?)...

      I say the IT WWI is in the preliminary phase.

    • Re:I still need convincing... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by voideng ( 656574 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @01:43AM (#8642280)
      The Netware threading model is signficantly better than the Linux model. Apache on Netware using the same hardware will out perform Linux. The test we ran about 6 weeks ago was RH AS 2.1 vs Netware 6.0 both were running Apache 2.0.
  • I haven't (and this is totally honest) used Netware in about a million years. I guess it is a good thing that they are hopping on the linux bandwagon, in one of those "Follow or be forgotten" sort of moves. All the power to them if they can make a place for themselves in the future.
    • Actually, Novell's "Groupwise" software really helps keep the whole server product viable - IMHO.

      If you've ever used Groupwise in a Novell Netware environment, it's pretty comparable to what you can do with MS Outlook (and we all know how many people put up with costly, unreliable Exchange servers just because they "can't live without" their Outlook).

      They also have lots of remote deployment/desktop upgrade type functionality.

      So IMHO, they've got very strong, valid reasons to be considered instead of goin
  • as Ransom Love once said... [linuxandmain.com]

    I wonder where this will end?
  • Since Novell *owns* Unix, it sounds like the *nix direction is Linux.

  • a year ago... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by dbkluck ( 731449 )
    well this is pretty amazing. last year it looked like we linux advocates were just going to be keeping up the tired mantra of "unix is dead, long live linux... any day now, unix is gonna die... any day now..." who'd have guessed we'd now be saying "netware is dead, long live linux"? and who'd have guessed we'd be right?

    • Re:a year ago... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by drinkypoo ( 153816 )
      When MARS-NWE came out and then went away (essentially) I think it was then that I said netware was dead. Actually, I said it before it even went away, because as we all know back in the day netware was a pain in the ass and its primary feature was that it was more reliable than anything microsoft had out at the time, which is like saying that a fiero is a badass car because it's faster and more reliable than a pinto, but neglecting its own fuel delivery system problems or wtfever is wrong with that thing.

  • Novell's 1st big gift to Open Source (Score:5, Informative)

    by jaylee7877 ( 665673 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @12:45AM (#8641939) Homepage
    iFolder is a major gift to the Linux community and is an excellent sign to me that Novell is committed to Open Source Model not just the "we're on the Linux boat" fad. Until you've used iFolder and seen your files move from desktop to desktop with little to no effort on your part, you just can't understand. It's seamless, it's secure and it's reliable. I encourage all of you to give it a try! Thanks for a great product and thanks for believing in the OSS community Novell!

  • Please Novell, don't screw this one up (Score:5, Insightful)

    by akajerry ( 702712 ) <<akajerry> <at> <akatech.com>> on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @12:55AM (#8641987)

    Novell has got a great position.

    1) They got tried and tested file, print, directory, and groupware services (including mail, calendar and secure IM services) - that's probably 50% of the windows server market right there

    2) They got good security and infrastructure management offerings. Microsoft can't even compete in this category.

    3) They got an enterprise class J2EE / Web Services platform from their SilverStream acquisition. (that's the other 50% of the windows market)

    4) They have their own linux distro now from SUSE

    5) They have a Linux on the desktop offering from Ximian

    6) They have a world class distribution, partners program and support organization with over a decade of experience.

    7) They've got a good core system integration group from CTP

    8) And they are trying to replicate the success of the Certified Netware Enginneer with the new Certified Linux Engineer program. (MSCE was a complete rip off of the NE program)

    Only one problem, they have managed to screw up every acquisition they did in the 90's.

    Please Novell, don't screw this one up. We're counting on you.

    • I think the amount of time Novell's taking on this is a good sign. It indicates they've thought long & hard about the best directions to take, and done their best not to screw this one up. I think this is probably their last chance to be tha shiznit again, and they know it, too.

      (note: I'm not saying Netware is dead/dying, I'm saying they'll cease to make a difference in the grand scheme of things)

  • And Netware+Linux comes full circle (Score:4, Interesting)

    by JBMcB ( 73720 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @12:57AM (#8641997)
    I think I still have a copy of Netware 3.11 for Redhat Linux laying around somewhere. It was pretty cool, booting Netware on top of linux, but Novell canned the effort for some reason, and then mars-nwe was born, then died.

    This will be interesting...

  • Novell topic icon? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mj01nir ( 153067 ) * on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @01:48AM (#8642307)
    OK, so now can Novell get their own topic? Please? I mean, Corel still has their own topic.

    Throw us old Novell guys a bone willya?

  • NWFS (Score:4, Interesting)

    by runderwo ( 609077 ) <runderwo@mail.wi ... rg minus painter> on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @02:05AM (#8642386)
    When are we going to see some action on Jeff Merkey's NWFS driver? The legal status of that code has been up in the air for years now, and as each day goes by, it will become harder and harder to bring it back up to sync with a modern kernel.

    I had to rescue data from a Novell fileserver that had become corrupt, and NWFS was invaluable in doing so. But, I had to compile an ancient kernel specifically for that purpose.

    If Novell really is committed to Linux, perhaps they can shed some light on this murky topic.

    Andre Hedrick's concerns [iu.edu]

    Netware Utils [kernel.org]

    Kernel patches for 2.4.15 [kernel.org]

  • just a post-war era scenario.. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by huffer ( 710052 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @03:41AM (#8642710)
    What if...
    What if the Linux will be more and more used in the "big companies" and more and more business will rely on it, and not on M$ bloatware; 'cause this day seems to get closer and closer and maybe it's not just a dream to realy get rid of the evil software..

    But when all the cash flow will rely on a open kernel, will anyone continue to develop the kernel with an open heart? Or we will end up with hackers' "strikes" and protests and slogans like "we will not develop for the rich to get richer!" stuff? Will this be possible? Will it be a good thing for the software comunity and for the world? (dern, I sound like camaiging for somebody :P)
    But I'm just curious.. 'cause every action in this workd is driven by something.. Open source is driven by many wills, but one of them is to make software "free as in freedom". But I wonder what will happen' when this will collide with creating software to help the administration control us, etc.

    It was just a thought..

  • If there was any doubt... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by 222 ( 551054 ) <stormseeker@gma i l .com> on Tuesday March 23, 2004 @07:41AM (#8643486) Homepage
    If there was any doubt about novells intentions, and its place in the future of open source, i feel that this quote sums it up nicely....

    [""We're giving them software and services, but we don't set the direction for open source, we only contribute to that discussion and make suggestions. The open source community is driving where competition will occur and we are a member of that community," he said."]

    Its important to note that its clear they feel a member of the community, and not a self appointed figure head. Theres a reason "open source" and "community" are seen so often side by side in print, because this selfless "community" spirit is what gave open source its true value, and will continue to make GNU/Linux and its components a threat to anyone who attempts to market inferior software.

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