Expert Opinions On Linux Gaming's Future 411
jg21 writes "Following
on from yesterday's Slashdot coverage of the idea to launch a games-based Linux
distro, LinuxWorld Magazine has held a Gaming Round Table involving Chris DiBona, Ryan
Gordon, Timothee Besset, Gavriel
State, and Joe Valenzuela about where Linux
currently stands and how it will one day become a premier gaming platform. 'It
became perfectly clear to me that most of the technological issues are already
solved, and that the others won't take too long to fix once the game publishers
really get into the mix,' reports Dee-Ann LeBlanc, Gaming Industry Editor for
LinuxWorld, who coordinated the round table. Well worth reading."
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Of course. (Score:5, Interesting)
Even the US gov't is jumping aboard with America's Army (as well as support for Mac).
Linux is growing, and needs to grow more and more in regards to users, so we can get better game AND hardware support. I know some people think this Linux vs. Windows war is kind of silly, but until Linux grows to the point where it's recognizable by the average user we'll still be left out in the cold in many regards (such as, of course, games and hardware).
I admit, I myself still have Windows installed. How else can I play many games? Wine doesn't want to work on my computer, and it's not perfect anyway.
Re:Where's the games at? (Score:4, Interesting)
Stable nvidia drivers to take advantage of it? My machine at work has a lovely graphics card in it - but once I load the nvidia driver, it will crash/hang at some point in the future. And that sucks.
Ths single most important requirement (Score:4, Interesting)
About the only thing Linux can hope for in the short term is the occasional port but even that may not be financially viable for quite some time judging by the smouldering crater that was once Loki.
Hmmm... (Score:3, Interesting)
Two Words: Market share. (Score:5, Interesting)
The games will come if/when a larger proportion of their target market runs Linux.
Right now, very few games are developed for Linux, because relatively few game buyers run Linux. Most game developers don't have the time or resources to port their products, because the margins are razor thin and time is critically important. Windows development toolkits like DirectX are widespread and proven effective.
Until linux is percieved as a major market and has the level of (hardware) vendor support that Windows-based stuff does, it will continue to be an afterthought in game development.
As in console or PC? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Where's the games at? (Score:4, Interesting)
I mean (aside from DirectInput which is pretty cool), the whole development cycle is DX-centered: Microsoft asks Nvidia/ATi what they need, then they put it on DX nad then the cards take advantage of it... it's cyclic.
Carmack is the only reason for OpenGL's survival...
--krahd
Re:Where's the games at? (Score:5, Interesting)
It's beginning to look like the adoption of Linux on the desktop is going to take a massive scandal on Microsoft's part. Something like Bill Gates is stealing your credit card number or something. I know I'm going to be modded down for this but I challenge anyone who's going to throw away a mod point on me to reply and refute what I've written.
Re:Where's the games at? (Score:2, Interesting)
FSAA, anisotropic filtering...runs nice and fast.
Also, I haven't rebooted since I upgraded my kernel to 2.6.3...which was 3 weeks ago.
I've yet to have this thing lock up on me. And I run Steam/Counterstrike, Warcraft III, UT2003 and UT2004-demo, Red Orchestra...all run great.
Don't know what you're doing wrong...
A Linux Game fund? (Score:5, Interesting)
What about setting up a fund for developing a linux game? It should have a concept, only rough, like the genre, set.
Then set up a website with a nice progress bar, and a target sum needed for the developement, like what? 5 Million Dollars? 10 Million Dollars?
Ok, that won't get us a completely new Half - Life - 2 developed, but maybe a nice RPG / Adventure built on an existing engine.
Maybe different Funds for different uses, like
- Make a cool RPG a 'la Deus Ex / System Shock
(Wizardry would be even better, but i don't know about the mass - marketing appeal...)
- "Make a good game developing environment based on Crystal Space"
Make an agreement with some game studio to get a cool engine for a guaranteed price for a free - as - in beer - game production use, let it be the UT or Doom 3 Engine. Or not, depends on the game's genre, i guess.
Let somebody develop a cool game from this money for the community.
If the community wants a new cool game developed, everybody transfers a few bucks to a new proposed game fund of his choice. I think there are enough gnu / linux / bsd / mac etc. fans out there to invest a few dollars each to get a big enough budget, it's mostly a marketing question, i guess.
Kind of like the effort for opening the Blender source?
The fund should be handled by a trusted entity, of course.
Isn't there a cultural disconnect as well? (Score:3, Interesting)
It seems to me that the people who pride themselves on having open and free software are probably those least likely to actually buy games. I think the best bet in the short to medium-term is for companies that are already doing porting like Aspyr to pick up the ball once they see that a market exists. The success of shareware companies like Freeverse and Ambrosia are what has kept big-name titles on the Mac and as far as I know there aren't a lot of examples of super-successful for-pay games on Linux.
Microsoft also has a serious advantage as far as DirectX goes and its integration with Visual Studio. The development environment is a very big deal, especially as games get more and more complex.
Sound drivers... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Where's the games at? (Score:3, Interesting)
I think it's obvious that downloading and running a program to install a driver is not beyond the computing abilities of your average gamer.
Re:Where's the games at? (Score:1, Interesting)
Unfortunately, it took a while to diagnose the issues because everyone wanted to prove that closed source == buggy.
Re:Where's the games at? (Score:5, Interesting)
This means linux (as a whole) must play to their strengths and minimize their weaknesses.
1. ATI and nvidia must have drivers released that will work properly.
2. A DirectX port or OpenGL2 would also accelerate development.
3. Since Linux can be updated and supports more advancements more quickly than windows, push that to developers. If Athlon's 64-bit processing power can be utilized, ship a knoppix-like distro that takes advantage of it. Nothing like making the claim that their game performs X% better by using linux and amd 64bit mode than by using XP. Getting the NTFS partition loader automagically to install would be a boon to write/cache saves and game updates.
4. Brain dead consumer land installs. Knoppix is even easier to install than windows
I'm probably missing alot here, but I think them's the basics as I see it.
Questionable numbers: ignores dual boot/emulation (Score:3, Interesting)
How many of the 18 million are end user desktops?
How many of the end users are also gamers?
How many of those Linux gamers ONLY run native Linux games and NEVER dual boot or emulate?
I argue that most Linux gamers are already customers who run the Win32 version. A Linux verson would largely not generate new sales, it would replace existing Win32 sales with Linux sale. Where is the profit in this?
Re:Everyone seems to be missing the catch-22 here. (Score:1, Interesting)
In my experience, people that buy desktop computers for linux shoot for the best price to value. This may mean not getting the Radeon 9800 XT, but a decent card to use nonetheless.
Very few people are buying the absolute fastest hardware for Windows. In fact, dualie Linux workstations are more powerful than any gamer computer I've seen recently.
Hardware might appear to be the reason for poor sales on the surface, but there are people with the hardware that run linux. The root of the problem is more likely difficulty of gaming, or the detrimental effects of overgaming that I'm sure all of us have had. I don't think hardware is a problem.
At the very least, I know I bought a nice rig for linux and play lots of games. Maybe I'm just different.
Re:Where's the games at? (Score:5, Interesting)
It DID happen. Loki heard the clamor, released a bunch of games, then went belly up because all the people who had insisted for years that they'd buy linux games if they came out turned out to be lying.
Re:Yay! (Score:3, Interesting)
You wouldn't need to install it. That's the whole point. Game developers could create a bootable liveCD distribution specifically tailored to their game, which you'd stick in your CD drive, reboot, and it would load the kernel, drivers for your sound and video cards, the components of X that your game needs, and then launch the game.
Effectively, your PC would act just as a game console. Stick in the CD, turn it on, and you're running the game. Only difference is, if you turn it on without a CD in, you've got a general purpose computer, rather than a screen that says "NO DISC".
GCC vs. Visual Studio (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Where's the games at? (Score:3, Interesting)
actually nvidia has this feature already worked out for Linux. Called 'nvidia-settings' it was in their Beta driver set 1-0.4260. What you saw was a fully fledged gui for controlling card options very reminiscent of the control panel on Windows, if not identical.
Why they don't include it in their official releases is a mystery. When I was using the beta drivers, it seemed to work perfectly.
We Need RMS for *REAL* Game Dev! (Score:2, Interesting)
http://www.kde-look.org - We've got artists.
http://kguitar.sourceforge.net - Somebody's gotta be a musician out there.
http://www.fsf.org - RMS loves to talk.
Comon guys, just get 'em all together!
Re:GCC vs. Visual Studio (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:GCC vs. Visual Studio (Score:3, Interesting)
The GCC compiler is probably better in many way such as compliance to standards, but there is no way it can compete with the chipmaker's proprietary knowledge.
Re:Where's the games at? (Score:2, Interesting)
However they won't do that which is undestandable since most of the times these specs can give you quite an insight at what's happenning inside the card.