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Games Software Entertainment Linux

Expert Opinions On Linux Gaming's Future 411

jg21 writes "Following on from yesterday's Slashdot coverage of the idea to launch a games-based Linux distro, LinuxWorld Magazine has held a Gaming Round Table involving Chris DiBona, Ryan Gordon, Timothee Besset, Gavriel State, and Joe Valenzuela about where Linux currently stands and how it will one day become a premier gaming platform. 'It became perfectly clear to me that most of the technological issues are already solved, and that the others won't take too long to fix once the game publishers really get into the mix,' reports Dee-Ann LeBlanc, Gaming Industry Editor for LinuxWorld, who coordinated the round table. Well worth reading."
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Expert Opinions On Linux Gaming's Future

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  • Re:John Carmak (Score:3, Informative)

    by Drantin ( 569921 ) on Tuesday March 16, 2004 @08:02PM (#8584120)
    If you'll check the links in the summary, they do have a representative from ID Software...
  • by Carnildo ( 712617 ) on Tuesday March 16, 2004 @08:03PM (#8584121) Homepage Journal
    How can I play a game when I'm blind?
    YOU INSENSITIVE CLOD!


    Nethack [nethack.org] has pretty good support for such technologies as screen readers and braille pads.
  • by StarTux ( 230379 ) on Tuesday March 16, 2004 @08:08PM (#8584176) Journal
    Although more of a Simulation, rather than a "game".

    http://www.linuxsimulations.org
  • engines for linux (Score:4, Informative)

    by maxmg ( 555112 ) on Tuesday March 16, 2004 @08:17PM (#8584260)
    The FA makes some valid points about the cost of porting games to linux. However, there are commercial-quality game engines out there that do run under linux. One of them, Nebula [sourceforge.net] if even open source (even though Nebula2 is still lacking graphics support for linux, but that's in the works). Nebula1 is perfectly useable and has all kinds of goodies, including input handling, sound, and a slick architecture.

    I believe the major problem at the moment is definitely the difference in availability/quality of hardware accelerated graphics drivers. One ATI get their shit together, the story might be different...
  • by Doogie5526 ( 737968 ) on Tuesday March 16, 2004 @08:21PM (#8584291) Homepage
    "Carmack is the only reason for OpenGL's survival"

    That may be true for games but as for professional 3d apps, OpenGL is king. Likely because of crossplatformability. Since those professional OpenGL cards cost so much (they make the money) and they can just apply the same technology to the game cards is another reason OpenGL is still strong for games.

    A 7-syllable word that makes sense! A new personal record!

  • by olePigeon (Wik) ( 661220 ) on Tuesday March 16, 2004 @08:23PM (#8584310)
    The biggest problem is convincing developers that there's money in it for them.

    Most are under the impression that they shouldn't bother with anything other than Windows because there's no money in it. "95% of the market is Windows, so why bother with a poultry 5%" type attitude.

    Also, added to the cost is desktop support. If you write a game for just Windows you only have to worry about Windows problems. If you write a game for Linux and Mac OS X, you have to hire, train, and then troubleshoot Linux and Mac problems.

    The other problem is to convince developers to NOT design their game around proprietary technologies such as DirectX.

    By the way, this information comes from the developers themselves. Personally, I think it's a bunch of crap excuses for lazyass companies trying to squeeze out every profit they can by minimizing responsibility. I'm an avid Mac user but I just recently had to buy a PC just to play games. Counter-Strike, Infantry, and Subspace are Windows only and impossible to play under emulation. However, I'd LOVE to see all my favorite games running under Linux and Mac OS X so I can chuck Windows.

    If game developers can't be convinced to even write games for the Macintosh using the above excuses (especially the marketshare one), why would they be at all interested in a desktop that has an even smaller marketshare than the Macintosh?
  • by black mariah ( 654971 ) on Tuesday March 16, 2004 @08:52PM (#8584514)
    Hell no. When I first switched to Linux about 18 months ago I had no clue how to get my video card running right. I kept getting all kinds of errors. Finally, one of Nvidia's programmers managed to point me towards an option that I have to have enabled for the card to work with my monitor. Very, very stupid.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 16, 2004 @09:06PM (#8584630)

    explore gamesfortheblind.com [gamesfortheblind.com]

    written by a blind programmer, who's dedication and passion in the face of adversity should be supported.
    Sure some of us sighted people can program well (and bad), but to it without the power of sight is truly something to awe and makes me feel rather humble.

    A>S
  • by LDoggg_ ( 659725 ) on Tuesday March 16, 2004 @09:07PM (#8584634) Homepage
    Here's [icculus.org] 310 other games. Some Free, some commercial.

    I know, not even close to what's available on windows, but still way more than I'll ever get a chance to play.

  • Morphix Game CD (Score:2, Informative)

    by apathy0o0 ( 717377 ) on Tuesday March 16, 2004 @09:25PM (#8584771)
    Perhaps what they are looking for is something like this [xs4all.nl] from the Morphix [morphix.org] guys. It has the q3a and ut2003 demos too.
  • SDL (Score:3, Informative)

    by Ian_Bailey ( 469273 ) on Tuesday March 16, 2004 @09:37PM (#8584856) Homepage Journal
    A simmilar corss-platform solution exists:
    SDL [libsdl.org]

    It's always growing, it's open source (sort of), and it already supports many of the things in DirectX.
  • by Doogie5526 ( 737968 ) on Tuesday March 16, 2004 @09:43PM (#8584904) Homepage
    Maybe not for the news blurb, but I was explaining that Carmack isn't the only thing keeping OpenGL alive. The fact that the technology devloped for professional 3d cards/apps makes it cheeply avaliable for gaming cards. So the professional use of OpenGL is helping the gaming world as well as keeping the standard updated and alive.

    One more thing, those professional 3d apps are also used to create the games. So the content creators have the chance to get familiar with Linux while developing for it.

  • by dbIII ( 701233 ) on Wednesday March 17, 2004 @03:23AM (#8586741)
    Anyway, DirectX is a great example of something that just works. The version doesn't matter, it is 100% backwards compatible
    Ever tried running an older directX game like "Dungeon Keeper II"? There may be 100% compatibility between point releases, or maybe even full versions - but there are certainly examples of programs that break with different version of DirectX. A lot of the games and 3D programs that you can buy new now in discount boxes just will not work on XP with a current directX - for many you can download the patches which support newer version of DirectX.
    Who needs more options when the first one always works?
    We don't live in that perfect world back - you should always be able to roll back to an earlier version.
  • by FooBarWidget ( 556006 ) on Wednesday March 17, 2004 @06:50AM (#8587370)
    The problem is mostly that debugging information is huge (for some reason). If you turn off -g, linking will be *much* faster.

    When I was compiling Gimp 2, it took 2 minutes to link the binary, and it was 40+ MB! I turned off debugging and it took 5 seconds or so.
  • by Rogerborg ( 306625 ) on Wednesday March 17, 2004 @08:08AM (#8587538) Homepage

    And I don't give a rat's arse if they're open source. I want them fast, I want them prominently available from hardware vendors and/or distributors, and most of all, I don't want to have to play a Towers of Hannoi with dependencies and command lines to get them to install and work on a stock Red Hat or SuSE system.

    Oh, I know it should be simple enough, but it isn't. Google for problems with (e.g.) NVidia drivers with SuSE distros and that should give you a sample of the fun that awaits. For every twitchy zealot who'll chime in saying "Well, it just worked on my system!" (even though Linux cognitive dissonance means it probably didn't "just work") there will be someone who eventually got it to work after hours of hacking and begging for help in forums, someone who gave up on it, and someone who thinks it worked but who is still using old drivers without knowing it because they missed the "Wrong version of fleem" error in the forty screens of script output that ended with an "Install complete."

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 18, 2004 @07:03AM (#8597075)
    I design HW for a living, and your last paragraph just isn't true. HW interfaces (even if that includes firmware to run on a general IC, think DSP), does not give away any info on the design of the chip. The reason is that you never put anything novel into the interface. You put all the cool stuff into your driver or the HW itself, never into the interface. It's just a collection of registers with info on what they do. Optimizing (iow, the cool stuff) the drivers will be up to the OSS community.

    While it's true that some HW manufacturers (like Philips) give away more documentation than they really need to, that doesn't mean Nvidia or ATI (specs under NDA == no specs at all) has to do the same. Just the bare essentials will be fine.

Suggest you just sit there and wait till life gets easier.

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