HP Starts Pushing Desktop Linux 465
iswm writes "HP has supposedly been selling MandrakeSoft Linux on the desktop for a while but has been so quiet about it that for all intents and purposes it's been a stealth operation. That's all about to change, with two new Linux desktops ready for rolling out by HP to the North American SMB market, both boxes to be sold with Mandrake Linux."
Opensource Income? (Score:5, Interesting)
Did HP just take mandrake with a few modifications and put it on, or was a licence purchased?
Yeah but how much? (Score:5, Interesting)
What's Microsoft gonna do? (Score:4, Interesting)
Off topic yeah... (Score:5, Interesting)
So I'm petty. sue me. There's lots like me
Why no high end workstations? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Interesting. (Score:5, Interesting)
The good with the bad (Score:5, Interesting)
The new users won't necessarily care how far the strides GNU/Linux has made, but realize that it's still not as easy to use as Windows and (IMO) not as stable as XP either!
Re:What's Microsoft gonna do? (Score:4, Interesting)
Thats what I was thinking about too. In the past MS has had exclusionary contracts with the hardware vendors that only Microsoft's Windows would be pre-loaded on a line of computers. So if HP sold Linux or Solaris x86 or whatever on a line of computers then they had to pay full retail for any copies of Ms Windows they sold with that line. (IIRC about $200 for full license of W9x as opposed to ~50 OEM pricing.) Are those kind of exclusionary contracts prohibited now by the anti-trust settlement?
Re:Interesting. (Score:5, Interesting)
Simply said, I cannot wait until linux has the ability to be a command-line only OS and at the same time, a GUI only OS. Mandrake comes damn close. So do some others. It's right around the corner now...
good thing.......i guess (Score:4, Interesting)
I have always found it funny when people, especially older people like my parents, shy away from non-windows systems because they think it is too hard to use, and then I have to show them how to use IE in windows and how to dial up (yeah, modem) to the internet.
Re:What's Microsoft gonna do? (Score:4, Interesting)
The justification for that deal, if I remember right, was that they would under-report the number of PCs they installed Windows on and cheat Microsoft out of their due.
Re:Interesting. (Score:4, Interesting)
Actually, a friend of mine installed mandrake 9.2 on his computer. He was asking me something over AIM, and I told him to open a terminal, and... He paused and said, "Uh, how do I get to a terminal?"
So see it is possible for an under average computer user to enjoy Linux on the desktop without needing a command line.
Re:What's Microsoft gonna do? (Score:4, Interesting)
Microsoft has gotten away with some underhanded skuldudgery it seems (*spares the
Bill and Steve better but some more asprin - I think they'll need it in the not too distant future.
Soko
Re:Interesting. (Score:4, Interesting)
The trouble is that the people who buy HPs (low-end, cheap machines--the desktops, at least.) are not the people who read
I'm afraid that, in an attempt to lower their bottomeline they're forgetting their current market, but who knows? Maybe, with this, they'll get a new market. At the very least, it should be really interesting to see how other companies respond and how succeessful HP is in this venture.
-Grym
Win/Win (Score:5, Interesting)
With this corporate support, you can go out and buy a -supported- HP/Mandrake desktop. Which means you have Linux supported hardware if you don't like Mandrake.
All sorts of good things in the future...
Re:Interesting. (Score:3, Interesting)
now in a controled enviroment were the hardware is fixed and your not running every server availible, there is little need to hit the command line any more in mandrake. they have almost eliminitated the need for it in most every day taskor task the "joe sixpoack" would be trying to do.
Re:Putting the cart ahead of the horse. (Score:3, Interesting)
For the home market, yes. There are, however, also the business and educational markets. There you have the same users, but they aren't necessarily doing all the install/config themselves.
And as long as there is anything that requires a text file to be edited in linux, Windows will remain king.
Mandrake's visual config is clunky, but it's comprehensive.
Re:Changes Nothing. (Score:5, Interesting)
Hah!
Sadly, I tend to agree. I'll never forget the fury I felt when I opened up my HP Pavilion a few years ago to find that they had combined the soundcard and modem onto one PCI card. This wouldn't have been so bad if they hadn't of put a fake PCI cover on the back of the computer to make them look like the two cards were separate, and THAT wouldn't have been so bad if they hadn't of put the cover for the fake "modem" right in the way of my only advertised "free" PCI slot.
It was very deceptive. And the only reason was so they could say "one free PCI slot" on the box, knowing damn well that not only was that PCI slot unusable but nearly nobody is going to open it up in the store to figure it out. So the net effect of this ridiculous situation wass was that I had to buy a new soundcard and modem (for a modem issue) and from then on, I tell every person who asks (and that's a lot, since I'm in a tech support position) to avoid HP like he plague.
-Grym
Re:What's Microsoft gonna do? (Score:4, Interesting)
I think the current head of HP was smart enough to not accept the terms that they can only run one OS primarily because a big portion of HP sales involves HP-UX still... Pretty sure they had enough muscle to remove that clause. It's a position where they both need eachother.
That said, would HP sales fall through the floor without selling Windows? You might just be surprised since most people don't buy a computer because it has Windows but because it is "Internet Ready" or plays DVDs, or any number of things that even a default install of Mandrake is capable of doing.Re:Why no high end workstations? (Score:5, Interesting)
Are you high? Why would I go out and buy a $3K PC to run games, and then turn around and run those games under WineX? That'd be like buying a Mac just so I could run all my Windows apps in Virtual PC... You buy the right tool, and install the right OS, for the tasks you want to accomplish. Unless you're a zealot or something.
As an XP user I tried switching to Mandrake: (Score:5, Interesting)
THE GOOD
1. Much prettier interface. Everything from the icons to the taskbar, to Konqueror was top notch
2. All my hardware worked right away; sound card, mouse, keyboard, video card, with exception of my Palm Pilot cradle. I had some monitor problems as you'll read about as well.
3. Speedy as hell. You'd run a program and it would actually run within a reasonable time.
4. Internet worked right off the bat. Awesome.
5. The video player played a lot of files easy-peasy and I didn't have to fight with codecs.
6. I could still access my Windows folders. Another great benefit.
THE BAD
1. My mouse was uncontrollable. XP has both a speed and acceleration option that is great for mouse control. The mouse options box in Mandrake didn't have these options and it was frustrating to use the mouse, even after twinking these settings for an hour.
2. By far the biggest problem: Installing programs. In XP it's as easy as double clicking an icon and picking a directory. Not so with Linux. You can read my post on the newbie forums
here [linuxquestions.org].
I have no idea where anything installs to, nor the best way to uninstall things. Inevitably I have to use the command line. Even as an X-MSDOS user I found it very frustrating.
3. Despite claims of stability, Konqeror crashed repeatedly. I can not say why.
4. After installing a program, finding where it installed to would be like pulling teeth. Making a shortcut would be even worse.
5. Installing the correct driver for my soundcard was very complicated, even after reading the INSTALL file. I eventually gave up.
6. I got a sync out of range message when I first tried running Mandrake. I left the monitor settings on default during install. This took hours to discover and fix.
But above all installing programs is a pain. This means, once the desktop is setup, Mandrake is a dream. But configuring it requires far too much expertise, at least it seems like it. I found myself posting time and time again on the forums. They were very helpful people but their answers often left me more confused than I started.
I'm not trying to flame, just provide constructive criticism and ways to help make Mandrake better. I wish them the best.
iTunes for Linux? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Putting the cart ahead of the horse. (Score:2, Interesting)
Granted in Windows there is a GUI for most everything, but I really don't see distributions like Mandrake lacking in that area. As for the "everything else," how does joe six-pack editing text files on Linux compare with joe six-pack editing the registry in Windows? Noobs don't edit the registry? If the popularity of the numerous "registry tweak" sites is any indication, I'd say they do.
Personally, I'd like to think with a little hand-holding, the joe six-pack using Windows could get into the habit of editing text files with little fuss. Hell, they might even start using the command-line once they realise how powerful it is and doens't require any squinting.
Re:Year of Linux (Score:1, Interesting)
The big stupid train continues to try the same thing, each time expecting a different result from the one it always gets... oh well, it has always worked before now.
Re:I for one do not welcome our Linux newbie under (Score:2, Interesting)
Well, for one thing I'd sure like all those zombie spam/DDOS relays to be shut down - reducing Windows use to the more natural state of around 10% would be a great start to that end.
Re:Drivers (Score:5, Interesting)
Ironic, isn't it? nVidia gets slammed so often for producing closed-source drivers, and now that ATi has followed suit, I actually specced out the last PC I built with a GeForce FX.
Now that both makers are forcing us to use binary drivers to get acceleration, at least nVidia has a better track record at updating drivers (and the open-source nv driver is further along too).
Yes, there are binary-only ATI drivers [ati.com]. No, I don't know how well they work.
Re:Interesting. (Score:3, Interesting)
Be glad you know how to drop to the command line/edit the registry/whatever.
Price vs same machine loaded with WinXP? (Score:3, Interesting)
Anyone know how those compare to the same machines pre-loaded with a Microsoft operating system? Are HP's linux customers getting the same price, higher or lower for buying Mandrake instead of Windows?
Re:I for one do not welcome our Linux newbie under (Score:3, Interesting)
It increases my ability to service others computer needs for pay.
It decreases ANYONE'S ability to monopolize computer related enterprises.
Re:Putting the cart ahead of the horse. (Score:3, Interesting)
A hp desktop preloaded for around 400 bucks sounds real good to me. I can buy them preloaded and modify one line in the inittab to hook to our desktop servers. This will save me the time of having to run a kickstart install to get a minimum x running on a client. Not to mention the boxes have a very nice warranty.
Re:Don't trust HP. (Score:3, Interesting)
That doesn't sound bad upfront, but it actually is. I used to work for HP and the fact that they made you take vacation for a whole week during certain holidays used to piss me off. There were times when I didn't have any vacation left, so I had to stay home without pay. To me thats saying: "you have vacation time, but we tell you when you can take it."
Anyway, the fact that HP is so self-centered and is investing in Linux is quite a good sign for its widespread adoption. They clearly feel there is a market and a profit to made in selling computers with Linux preinstalled.
Re:What's Microsoft gonna do? (Score:3, Interesting)
Most people buy computers so they can check their email and browse the web, both things easily done with Mandrake or more Linux distros.
Not saying it would be a good business move for them by any means. Definitely best to take the hybrid approachYou're both wrong (Score:3, Interesting)
MS Office isn't just software, its how businesses are run. Its a brand, a religion, and a cult all rolled into one. We all know it just consists of a word processor, spreadsheet, etc but to users its all they do - and ALL THEY KNOW. Heck, most users can barely use office, and its much easier to use and has a better help system than the alternatives.
My prediction: MS will be around for longer than we care to admit. Linux will continue to make inroads into the server room and will eventually be knocked back a bit when MS finally make a server anyone can administer and setup.
I'd like to think otherwise, but MS is like the IBM electric typewriter. Once its made x amount of inroads into corporate culture it may never leave.
On the bright side, there will be more technological revolutions and if these can help business then some other company might be able to replace MS (that is if MS doesnt buy the tech). Linux's eternal game of 'catch-up' isn't a revolution, its a cheap alternative that may not be worth buying into. Its like buying generic compared to a name brand.
I'd like to be an optimist and pretend there will be a healthy and free IT market, but the Justice Department let MS go. No multi-boot machines. Still the same old. Maybe the next administration and another lawsuit can change things, but right now MS is winning out loud. Hell, even their products are much better than they were three years ago and they are learning from their security mistakes.
Its been the year of the Linux desktop for years now. It seems it will always be 'right around the corner.' The only saving grace I see is nationalistic paranoia so that other countries' government agencies aren't neccessarily running windows in all departments in fear of CIA backdoors.
I'm sure this will be modded down the same way an atheist at a church gets shouted down.
Re:Drivers (Score:3, Interesting)
The problem is that current-generation Radeons (9500 and up) are almost a completely different architecture and nobody's really figured out how to do much with them yet...
Re:What's Microsoft gonna do? (Score:3, Interesting)
Microsoft does that the option to terminate their contract with HP because it is a contract so unless the DOJ is in the business of avoiding contracts I'm fairly certain both parties are still following the lettering. ...
That may be the case in the USA, but in the EU it is prohibited for a company with a dominant position to grant discounts or rebates that are based on a commitment to not purchase from a competitor. If a French company is being harmed by unfair competition practices of a US company that operates in the EU, you can be sure that the French will use their political influence to ensure that that US company faces stiff penalties. If Microsoft tries to hurt HP for doing business with Mandrake, they may run into a lot of expensive problems in the EU. The EU is a big market and Microsoft cannot afford for it to become an even more fertile ground for the growth of a real alternative to their offerings than it is already.
Re:Putting the cart ahead of the horse. (Score:3, Interesting)
I would just tremble at the thought of telling someone to type "kdesu kate" and having them browse to /etc and opeing up a file and make a chage with me.
I have had to tell a windows loser that they were out of luck if they could not come up with a boot disk so we could get back into their box in DOS mode and restore the registry, since they deleted HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE/Software or some other such nonsence, even though I asked them, are you sure the key name you are on is "x"
I would bet the system comes with a linux CD you could boot from and walk someone through with VI, instead of some lame ass recovery CD, that only gives them the option of nuking and paving their current system without saving any of their data.
I actually look forward to the day of providing lunux support.
As long as you can crap out windows with one keystroke in regedit, Windows is just not ready for the desktop.
Re:Opensource Income? (Score:2, Interesting)
What does that mean?
Re:I''m glad (Score:5, Interesting)
Are you trying to start a distro war here? I happen to believe Mandrake is the best distro.
The end of popular "grass-roots" Linux? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Interesting. (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't know of anyone alive who can rebuild the registry from scratch, Mirosoft does not even understand it well enough to be able to rebuild it.
That is not a good sign, when the people who make it, can not fix it.
Re:Interesting. (Score:3, Interesting)
After all, Walmart, started selling one striped down linux box for $200.00, an when Joe Sixpack saw it on their website and ordered it, they discovered it did not have windows on it and sent it back.
Oh! Wait a minute, after Walmart started selling that one system, they added several more linux bases systems, and they are still selling them over a year later.
I guess there is no chance of getting Joe sixpac of purchasing a linux system.
Re:What's Microsoft gonna do? (Score:3, Interesting)
I compiled a list of danish vendors that sell computers without an OS. I put in an entry for laptops because they are a little harder to get without an OS and you generally cannot build them from components.
The list is at http://www.agol.dk/nogenpc/ [www.agol.dk]
It is in danish, but you get the point Baerbare=Laptops, Ja=yes.
Re:What's Microsoft gonna do? (Score:5, Interesting)
There is no love lost between parts of the company, especially the original HP. Compaq, on the other hand, have thrived for years by sucking up to the man, and been very good at it. Yet if you look at the workstation and server lines, they have been certified for linux distros for a while (usually redhat 'premium' stuff), and been orderable with the OS. No retributions yet
The biggest risk with MS is that they will cut the company out of some big special, like a new product, like getting so many people on longhorn beta test, etc. They would probably do that today except that MS know they dont have a choice. The HP/Compaq PC line is a big enough chunk of sales that they dont dare walk away.
At the same time, I can imagine a lot of high level voicemails going back and forth
Re:Drivers (Score:2, Interesting)
Well, $389 is too good to be true (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:HP is on a roll (Score:2, Interesting)
(congrats on the successful post iswm)