U.S. Army Warns Microsoft To Back Off 635
declan writes "My CNET News colleague Ina Fried has written an interesting article today about how the U.S. Army has told Microsoft to stop sending free CD-ROMs of Office 2003 to government employees. In what's effectively a cease and desist order, the Army said: 'Your offer of free software places our employees and soldiers in jeopardy of unknowingly committing a violation of the ethics rules and regulations to which they have taken an oath to uphold.' Whoops! Perhaps this is Microsoft's latest way to fight free software at the Pentagon. Remember that just 8 months ago, the Army paid $471 million for Microsoft licenses."
Yep, it's happening in the Navy, too.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yep... I'm in the navy and this new item hit the streets last week (I considered submitting it as a story--oh well). We had guys and civilian contractors in our building getting free copies of office. My hate for ms reached a new high--talking about caught red-handed trying to plant seeds that will secure them--argh.
Separately, as a member of the military and despiser of the pitiful quality of ms products, I've always been strongly concerned about the military's use of ms products. The military, like many parts of the government, subcontract-out most tech work and implementation. The contractors, with sealed pay rates and support plans, have no problem deploying huge ms flagships at given branch or sub branch of the military (and then forwarding all the licensing bill to uncle sam). In other words, the root concern is that senior military folks that make the money decisions, need to get the job done but don't have a technical background (ie, to them, linux, microsoft, a server, source code, hacking, and TCP/IP are all one and the same). The contractors drum up offers, the military takes one, and--wham--the US gov't is now shelling out to ms in huge numbers and there's no one who looks at and says, 'is this the best way we could be doing it?'
If you've been around the government, you know what I mean about how scary the contractors are in terms of quality and knowledge when it comes to industrial back-end technologies. I'm on shore tour now, but when I was on my sub, you'd see these people doing a software install by blindly reading out of a SPAWAR procedure. I'd ask them stuff as they went along to gain knowledge and tips, but I usually got back a sheepish "I'm not sure". Grr...
Andy
Re:I got one! (Score:5, Insightful)
Totally agree.. it's all just a conspiracy to get Outlook into as many computers as possible. They know that the main battle is being fought over the groupware. Whoever controls the groupware of an organization will have a big influence on the rest of the software installed.
For anyone who doesn't beleive me, just try migrating Exchange server / Outlook to anything else, and you'll realize the depth of the insidiousness of microsoft mailing out copies of Outlook. They are miring IT department with otherwise good intentions.
Re:$20 Limit... (Score:5, Insightful)
Fair is fair, use the same value they do when calculating their "$90000000000 billion lost to software piracy!" figure.
Re:Yep, it's happening in the Navy, too.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously, what the hell is in ms office that the previous version didn't have that's of huge value? What more "essential" things can be added to a word processor? At the end of the day, bells an whistles don't make content. Call me when ms puts out a version of Office that makes content.
Andy
The "free drugs" model... (Score:3, Insightful)
Microsoft's trying to make sure every government employee runs Microsoft at home so that the government can't risk losing compatibility with everybody's home systems. Of course, the fact that giving something worth $500 to government employees is considered a "bribe" is something Microsoft doesn't care about, since when did laws get in the way of their operations?
Re:$20 Limit... (Score:5, Insightful)
Here, take this gold bar, absolutely for free, it's a gift. You pay nothing, it costs nothing! And now, about that contract of ours...
Re:Yep, it's happening in the Navy, too.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:donate to schools (Score:3, Insightful)
Also insidious... (Score:5, Insightful)
This is why I turned to *nux and never looked back.
No it is at that value (Score:3, Insightful)
It's the reasonable, or claimed value of the product.
A 1000 dollars is worth a thousand dollars regardless of how much it cost you to get it.
Are they writing off the cost? (Score:5, Insightful)
The first bag is free. (Score:5, Insightful)
I bet the kiddies would love a free bag of herion or crack, too. But does that mean you should donate one?
Let's not get another generation hooked on Windows.
Re:Yep, it's happening in the Navy, too.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Any alternative must both meet the MS functionality and provide enough extra juice to cover the switching costs/coefficient of static friction in the market.
I've got enough active duty experience, acquisition experience, and government contractor experience to know that your last line represents as gross an oversimplification as any other seen on
I think that the most reasonable, measurable thing to do is construct laws permitting companies to be in one major categor of business, say, operating systems or desktop applications only.
If you configure your XP applicationst for non-MS, and run Mozilla, the operating system hides c:\Program Files\Internet Explorer\IExplore.exe.
You can't even see that critter in a console window.
Great. However, there are times when you need to go to a site that conforms to the de-facto, and arguably good, standard set by IE.
You can, in fact, create a shortcut to this otherwise invisible executable, so that you can use it when required.
The alarm that this sets off is: how many other instances of the operating privileging certain files are going on within the hard drive?
Allowing that I probably gave my life away when I accepted the licensing agreement (I'm an honest, paying MSDN subscriber, doing nothing that wouldn't pass muster, that license is written in Perl with a bad hangover, for all I can read it), how confident can I be that this is the only example of such tomfoolery going on? What if there is a ForGoodJusticeScrewTheUserWithThisAPI.dll running around on there?
Should the operating system company be the same as the application company? I think that the market is going to say NO, and increasingly move away from this dangerous situation. I dunno if government intervention would do more than feed the shark^H^H^H^H^Hlawyers.
Re:$20 Limit... (Score:4, Insightful)
Why don't you give me your car for free? You wouldn't have a problem with it, right, because you assert that by giving it to me for free, the value of the car is reduced to 0$. Magically, by giving it to me for free, you suddenly don't mind giving the car up, because it becomes worthless through the process of you giving it as a gift! Yeah, thats how it works!
PS
Whats the value of providing you with your 'intangiable' current internet service (since you don't actually receive a physical object in return for your ISP fee?) Gee, its whatever you're currently paying for it
This is bribery, pure and simple (Score:5, Insightful)
So if Microsoft true intention was to familiarize large customers with new features, wouldn't it make a lot more sense to send them:
a) a self-running slideshow/video showing demonstrations of the new features (a la Video Professor, autoplay and go)
b) the aformentioned 90-day trial edition so they could install and see how well it works and then turn around and requisition it if they find a reason to keep it
c) MSDN or other licensed version that has no restrictions but the EULA clearly states the copy is not legit and cannot be used for actual business (development and testing only)
Somehow I don't think that's what Microsoft is doing. What they are doing is handing out free license keys to what retails for $499+. That means whoever happend to open the colonel's mail could just slip the key in his or her pocket and take it home with them, register it on their home system and enjoy a free copy of an outragously priced package. I mean, if everyone gets a free copy for personal use, stands to reason when requisition time comes around, people will suggest Office 2003 like they have at home.
This is bribery. Just because they call it marketting doesn't make it any less unethical. Otherwise, why can't GM just hand over the keys to their new SUV so that people can become "more familiar with our new features"? A legit Microsoft license (the actual hologrammed piece of paper with the key on it) is just as tangible and valuable as any other real-world freebie.
-JoeShmoe
.
Re:Yep, it's happening in the Navy, too.... (Score:1, Insightful)
because open src stuff given away isn't given away w/ the intention to gain business leverage and buy executives bigger jets from bigger deals.
Re:$20 Limit... (Score:5, Insightful)
Even if it's $5.00, it was my duty in the Navy to say no. I worked supply for a while and I would not even permit a vendor to buy my lunch. The military persons who accept the free copies are in violation of several standing orders and could be literally get 20 years at hard labor at a nice gated community in Kansas.
What about schools? (Score:5, Insightful)
But hey, why should schools save money?
Re:donate to schools (Score:5, Insightful)
The MS version of "Lucky Strike Goes To War" (Score:2, Insightful)
Ummm.. yeah. (Score:5, Insightful)
Most pilots are bright folks, they just stumble when confronted with an area where they have no background or training (like anyone). If you're starting from scratch, Linux is just as intuitive as anything manufactured by microsoft.
Incidently, the Air Force has plenty of tech-saavy people, often in the form of reservists. I've had systems guys in deployed locations who were company-grade officers... but senior software engineers at major corporations, often using linux on-the-job. Many of them hated our reliance on MS products, and looked for ways to use more-functional things every chance they got. Good grief... our NT servers in Saudi Arabia had to be rebooted monthly or they'd simply cease to function (don't even get me started on service packs).
MS is not the way... it is a way, and that's all you can say. Pilots are more than swift enough to use linux if you gave them a little training.
The real goal (Score:5, Insightful)
Government employees are a great target for this because it forces all the non-governmental organizations that work with the government to get licensed for the software or face not being able to exchange documents.
-- Greg
Re:donate to schools (Score:1, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Yep, it's happening in the Navy, too.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Yep, it's happening in the Navy, too.... (Score:5, Insightful)
How is that any better than, say, a custom US Air Force version of Linux that has a shortcut on the desktop to a CD burning application or script?
If you were arguing that Linux wouldn't work on the home desktop, where the users have no sysadmin to fix things, or no tech support person to direct questions to, you would be right that Linux would be too much. However, business and government have both of those resources (usually) and are not an issue. Using Linux isn't a whole lot different from Windows when a competent admin has set up the desktop to meet the needs of the intended audience.
Re:Yep, it's happening in the Navy, too.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Since MS changes the file formats with each version and users save in the default format (the newest MS format) your older version becomes useless.
Sure, you can ask them to resend the file in any older format, but then your client may think that doing business with you is too much trouble, that you are unable to even work with "standard" documents or just too broke and unstable to afford Office.
This is the deadly circle of MS Office use and the reason that the DOJ should have forced open the file formats.
Historical Precedent (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:diff gift_to_army donation_from_gates_foundatio (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Yep, it's happening in the Navy, too.... (Score:1, Insightful)
Uhm, you remember the /. article on MS and $45? (Score:3, Insightful)
It's no wonder that MS is the biggest and richest software company in the world. They've been ripping off everyone for the past two decades.
Re:Yep, it's happening in the Navy, too.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Yep, it's happening in the Navy, too.... (Score:5, Insightful)
The clueless users having problems with the application layer are so far separated from the OS as to make it completely irrelevant to them. By giving them a system that they can't accidentally screw up (they're users, not administrators, right?) by downloading the virus-of-the-week or installing the spyware of the day, you reduce their opportunities to screw up the system.
Re:Yep, it's happening in the Navy, too.... (Score:5, Insightful)
If any of the Armed Forces are locked into one platform (be it Microsoft or Linux or...) it will open a wide hole for any cracker employed by the opposing governments. The homogeneity will ensure that something that takes one computer will take them all.
Re:Yep, it's happening in the Navy, too.... (Score:5, Insightful)
I advocate Linux every chance I get. I recently convinced the command I work for to purchase several copies of Redhat Enterprise Linux for our perimeter services (proxy, web, etc.). It was a fight though. They just could not get M$ out of their heads. They simply could not understand that there are alternatives out there. In their world, all web servers are IIS, all email servers are Exchange, all PCs are Windows.
It wasn't until I told them that our perimeter services have been running on Linux for two years (regular Redhat) that they began to come around. I explained the EOL situation with Redhat Linux and that the most logical choice would be to move to RHEL since our AOSAs (Another OS Administrators) are already familiar with Redhat (ok... that's a stretch).
They still weren't completely convinced until I detailed the security track records of IIS and Apache. They understood the significance, but weren't completely sold until I showed them a message detailing a group of recent defacements of Navy and Air Force IIS servers in our region (overseas). Then I showed them the Linux/Apache front-end proxy for our beloved Outlook Web Access server and how it would be nearly impossible to exploit many of the IIS vuls through it. Done and done.
Sad.
I know that they are having problems selling it (Score:5, Insightful)
Rather it would be better to give free copies to the education market that cannot truely afford it. Our college still uses MS Office 2000, and trying to do a PowerPoint XP/2002 Slideshow on a machine with Office 2000 and a Projector loses a lot of the special effects and other things.
Also interesting to note is the media copy protection that MS Office 2003 has in it. Another reason for avoiding MS Office 2003 and sticking with an older version of MS Office or going with OpenOffice.org instead. I can see novices copy protecting their documents that they need to share with others and then someone in a different department tries to open up a shared document and it won't let them, and they need access to the info ASAP. We already see this problem partically when novices set passwords on documents and share them and don't tell anyone else what the password is.
Re:ethics? (Score:5, Insightful)
The above post is from aflamebaiting troll.
The Gov is actually buying these "free" copies (Score:1, Insightful)
Is it claiming the full cost of these CDs against tax? If so, it is effectively getting the US Government (and its tax-payers) to buy these copies.. Thousands of copies at $500 a time without even placing and order ?
Great business if you can get it ! Why bother fighting off Linux in the Open Market, and spending all that money on marketing? Just send millions of copies of Office to various Fed departments and make $499.90 profit on each one
license (Score:1, Insightful)
what a joke!! LOL!!
Re:Yep, it's happening in the Navy, too.... (Score:3, Insightful)
For at least the last 3 years, Apple has been supplying the OS X operating system on all of their computers. Unlike the old MacOS - this is based on BSD Unix! They even provide an X windowing environment, in case using the default "Aqua" GUI itself feels too "closed" to you. It seems to me the ability to recompile pretty much any BSD source and run on the Mac (not to mention the option of even forgoing Apple's own OS and using a flavor of Linux on the Mac, if you so desire) makes it far from completely "closed".
As for "closed hardware", sure - to some extent. (Probably, most notably, video cards - where your choices are pretty much between special "Mac editions" of select ATI Radeon products, or select nVidia products.) But with USB 2.0 and firewire, you can plug in and use most of today's printers, scanners, cameras, and external storage devices (hard drives, flash drives, removeables like zip, etc.). They've already got gigabit ethernet built into almost all models, so you should be pretty well set on your network card needs (and wireless G is an option for most every Mac too). Where's the big issue? It's kind of like me complaining that Dell makes "closed hardware" because I can't replace dead power supplies in some models with standard ATX replacements (they purposely swapped the wiring around).
Re:Ironic (Score:3, Insightful)
That's probably true. But do you know why? Because MS software is designed to take away freedom of choice while Linux and open source are designed to expand that freedom. Personally, I do have a problem with my tax dollars being used to take freedom away from my fellow Americans.
That statistic may actually be true (Score:1, Insightful)
That doesn't mean that Windows is easier to use or esier to fix. It doesn't even mean that Windows breaks in easily fixable ways. It is not a reflection of the quality of the underlying technologies. Incompetent admins aren't likely to have a breadth of real experience. As such, they are likely to be working with something that was easy for them to get a job doing and especially something that had easily available paper credentials. There are more incompentent Windows admins than there are incompetent Linux admins. There are also more Windows users than Linux users at the moment.
Re:Ethics is the LEAST of their problems. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Office Product Activation=Security Risk (Score:2, Insightful)
Really no chance of this being an issue.. and the software in question is meant to be used on the employee's personal home computer, not their machines at work.
And honestly, I would hope that anyone with access to the secure side would know better than to install anything without commander's approval...
Re:Yep, it's happening in the Navy, too.... (Score:3, Insightful)
For me and other more computer savvy users there wouldn't really be a difference. For others it would most likely just be a mental thing. Some people are intimidated by computers and a new UI could bother them. Other than that, as long as your system is setup right there really wouldn't be a difference. Which brings us to
How is that any better than, say, a custom US Air Force version of Linux that has a shortcut on the desktop to a CD burning application or script?
I firmly believe that the military will go to a Linux solution within the next 10-20 years. But they need, as you say, a custom version for their needs. The reason I think this isn't happening now is because the people that make these decisions didn't grow up with computers or Linux. They just went to E-Pubs which will save us millions of dollars a year. It took a long time to switch because they don't completely trust the technology. As Linux becomes more common and fresh blood moves up the chain Linux will become a more viable alternative, but right now it's a tough sell.
Switching to Linux on our all-purpose systems could be done, but it would be rough for awhile. And with our current opstempo I just don't see any commanders going for it. However, there are a few systems they should switch right away.
1. C-17 ADTD (Aircrew Data Transfer Device)
The ADTD is just a laptop on the plane for doing the form F (weight and balance) and for viewing E-Pubs (Acrobat). There is no reason this computer should use Win 98. This is a streamlined system where up time is critical.
2. Boeing Computer Based Training
These systems are nothing more than terminals used for training. They don't connect to the internet or even the base intranet. You log in, start the training file and that's it. They could save a lot by dumping WinXP on these machines.
3. Simulators
Again, a system where uptime and reliability is critical. Also, the sim has one function. A stripped Linux would be a lot better than Windows.
Re:DoD contractors are even stricter (Score:3, Insightful)
The sad part about that is that such things have been abused to the point where you can't even offer a basic kindness. Not that I disagree with the rules you work under, it just makes me sick to think that the companies who abused the system have created regulations that stifle even basic human decency.
This whole article thread, while increasing my respect for our military decision makers, has decreased my respect for our cultural addiction with money. Not that it could be decreased much more without becoming non-existent.
Sigh.
SB
Re:What about schools? (Score:5, Insightful)
I bet the students would benefit from getting free crack, too. After all, they could save money that way.
(I do agree with you, it's just that MS giving "gifts" of this nature to schools is done under the same pretexts (for MS) as it is done to the military. Meanwhile MS bitches about piracy. Hmph. )
SB
Re:Open fire already! (Score:2, Insightful)
Bleah. This is what passes for +5 Funny on Slashdot? Say what you like about Microsoft's business practices, I hope and trust no one here sincerely wishes Bill Gates bodily harm, or even thinks it's particularly funny.
Uh... Not! (Score:3, Insightful)
And true XML support is only available in the 'Professional' version. Gotta keep everyone onboard you know.
Besides all of this, MS only has themselves to blame for fracturing the
Five years. Please keep in mind that it is ONLY five years. Many of my teachers have documents far older than that. As long as MS insists on keeping their proprietary format secret the compatibility will only get worse.
Re:Yep, it's happening in the Navy, too.... (Score:5, Insightful)
There is something seriously disturbing about your post. Plese re-read it and explain how it is a good deal..
I read it as 'we were forced to upgrade our software at a co$t or the vendor will sick the lawyers onto us.. but it's a good thing... really... really it is..'
That to me sums up how they manipulate the customer to get their way...
It must stop.
Re:Yep, it's happening in the Navy, too.... (Score:1, Insightful)
Why don't they use UNIX then?
Re:Yep, it's happening in the Navy, too.... (Score:1, Insightful)
No time for training? Really? soldiers don't have time for training? Do you understand what you're typing? Do you really think U.S. soldiers don't ever train, because bullets can fly?
Re:Yep, it's happening in the Navy, too.... (Score:2, Insightful)
Linux/Unix/whatevr is no better, but atleast somebody forked to better solution in most cases.
If MS KB did the simple thing that Amazon does with it's products, it would be a cakewalk. Simply recommend other articles based on the same searches/questions/and especially, internal recs. Reliably. The pros there know it inside out, and yet they always leave crappy docs out there that folks follow and end up looking like... well... Windows users.
Re:This is stupid (Score:3, Insightful)
When companies send bottles of wine or packages of delicatessen, they also don't expect the goods to be consumed at the workplace.
Oh the Irony! (Score:4, Insightful)
(Okay, I know they are two different types of free; hence the capitalization).
Re:Yep, it's happening in the Navy, too.... (Score:3, Insightful)
You should probably re-read it as, "We were using illegal copies of Word, and we were going to be caught for it. However, now we don't have to go to the Finance department every time we want to put Office on a new computer, and it looks like our annual costs to Microsoft are lower using the site license rather than buying all of those individual copies."
Something like that.
=Brian
Re:It IS expensive in the stores! LOOK! (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course it pales next to StarOffice at $79 (or even OOo which is free), but I was speaking of MS to MS comparisons.
Re: When the lead is flying (Score:3, Insightful)
If back-office systems administrators are being killed in a hypothetical attack, then there are bigger problems to worry about than getting email running again. Could you have chosen a little less hysterical of an example to support your point? "Servicemen will DIE if they use Linux!" sounds vaguely trollish.
===----===
Re:Yep, it's happening in the Navy, too.... (Score:1, Insightful)