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Businesses Software Linux

Rome Moving to Linux 231

fmstasi writes "La Repubblica, one of the main Italian newspapers, reports shortly about an interview (in Italian) with Mariella Gramaglia, Communication Councillor at the Municipality of Rome. They are planning to start soon trying Linux on the desktop: 'The first tests will concern e-mail, address book software and sharing systems', she says. The Councillor also says that motivations are political rather than economic: 'In the short term, the money saved on license will have to be spent on training'. It seems that there haven't been any reaction yet from Microsoft: 'At Microsoft they know how much we esteem them', she says; 'for example, they are sponsoring a campaign to spread the use of computers among the elderly. And we'll keep on cooperating with them on other projects'. Maybe Microsoft also appreciates that there is (yet) no project of migrating all the clients? The Municipality has about 9,500 clients, so an eventual migration project would be slightly smaller than the one taking place in Munich."
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Rome Moving to Linux

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  • by mst76 ( 629405 ) on Thursday February 26, 2004 @10:27AM (#8396885)
    that some large organization moving to Linux on the desktop is not considered news anymore.
  • Trying or Doing? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by compbrain ( 625174 ) on Thursday February 26, 2004 @10:30AM (#8396905) Homepage Journal
    They are planning to start soon trying Linux on the desktop:
    The subject would suggest that it has been chosen to switch to Linux, but as we can see they are just going to be 'trying it'. How many people have 'tried' switching and given up under pressure from Micro$oft?
  • How long? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 26, 2004 @10:31AM (#8396922)
    How long before the US government starts to notice how much foreign countries are saving with OSS?

    The US government forgoing M$ would surely be the death knell of Micro$haft W1nbl0ws.
  • When in Rome (Score:4, Interesting)

    by cluge ( 114877 ) on Thursday February 26, 2004 @10:32AM (#8396930) Homepage
    Interesting notes such as "money saved on liscencing will have to be used on training. When will the linux desktop and desktops in general get to the point that they are so intuitive that training won't be requried? Judging by my own experience helping new computer users - not any time soon. While the interface may seem intuitive to you and me, to the complete computer newbie - it is still a challenging jungle.

  • Re:How long? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Bigby ( 659157 ) on Thursday February 26, 2004 @10:41AM (#8397016)
    It is not going to happen with politics involved. Do you think the U.S. government cares how much it spends when it means more corporate campaign contributions?
  • by LibrePensador ( 668335 ) on Thursday February 26, 2004 @10:41AM (#8397018) Journal
    Why is Munich the frame of reference for Linux on the Desktop when the region of Extremadura (Spain) moved 80,000 desktops to Linux nearly 2 years before Munich even announced its intentions?

    More time should be spent on understanding how they did it and why they have had such good results. The move has been an incredible success with copies of Linex (the debian-based distribution they created) being given away when you buy the newspaper.

    And schools have transitioned to it. The key, I believe, was localization. They switch the name of openwriter to "Cervantes", the famous Spanish writer, author of Don Quijote. They did the same for all of the applications and streamlined the installation to a process that makes it dead easy for anybody to install it.

    Finally, the government is subsidizing the use of linux in rural areas for first-time computer buyers by paying for a chuck of a linux-compatible computer.

    So why isn't this being talked about is the greatest mistery to me. Linux is on thousands of government, school and private desktops today. And it works!
  • by millahtime ( 710421 ) on Thursday February 26, 2004 @10:44AM (#8397040) Homepage Journal
    The Italians I know use thise same tactic with women.

    They tell the women they are with how much they love and adore them while they are working a deal with some other woman.
  • Re:When in Rome (Score:5, Interesting)

    by utahjazz ( 177190 ) on Thursday February 26, 2004 @10:49AM (#8397085)
    "The only intuitive interface is the nipple. Everything else is learned."
    -Steve Jobs

    (OK it was actually Bruce Ediger that said that, but Steve Jobs sounds better)
  • Re:How long? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by will_die ( 586523 ) on Thursday February 26, 2004 @10:55AM (#8397140) Homepage
    You do have a fair amount of systems that are switching over to Linux as the servers instead of windows. Granted alot of the older ones were originally running on Solaris, then were in the process of being switched in Windows, and then got switched to Linux. However you are also starting to see a fair amount of new large scale projects that start off on Linux.
    The biggest problem with Linux on the desktop and for local projects is that most branches of the military get huge enterprise licenses. For example when I was doing work with the Air Force we used Oracle because we could call a number and get a free license for Oracle, now I am working at an Army base we use MS-SQL server because I can call a number and get a free license for MS-SQL server.
    Sigh, I do miss my Oracle database it was far easier to provide the solutions the users needed.
  • Re:When in Rome (Score:3, Interesting)

    by LWATCDR ( 28044 ) on Thursday February 26, 2004 @11:04AM (#8397211) Homepage Journal
    I can tell you that for a fact Windows is no easier for novices.
    You have no idea how many people find WinZIP and Windows explorer to be "Hard" to use.
  • Comment removed (Score:3, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Thursday February 26, 2004 @11:27AM (#8397475)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 26, 2004 @11:40AM (#8397595)
    Too true. "I haven't been trained in that system" is an all too convienent excuse. Especially for government work.
  • Re:When in Rome (Score:3, Interesting)

    by iabervon ( 1971 ) on Thursday February 26, 2004 @11:47AM (#8397666) Homepage Journal
    All systems require training. The real question is when the documentation will be sufficient training. Linux documentation has gotten to be quite good, but it is not clearly organized, nor does it start at the level of a complete newbie. Ideally, the training requirement will become a short-term loss of productivity (as people look things up the first time on the new system) rather than something where you need people to come in and teach you stuff.
  • by westlake ( 615356 ) on Thursday February 26, 2004 @11:58AM (#8397761)
    I can't wait for the day when a move to Linux isn't qualified by the words: "The Councilor also says that motivations are political rather than economic." Which in Europe usually translates to "We needed to throw another bone to the leftest minority parties to keep them voting with the government."
  • Re:How long? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by vidarh ( 309115 ) <vidar@hokstad.com> on Thursday February 26, 2004 @12:15PM (#8397933) Homepage Journal
    You know the official system of measurement in the US is the metric system, right? And has been since 1893. The US was even one of the original 17 signatories to the treaty of the meter. So the US government has long realised the advantage of the metric system, having been involved with it's development since Congress authorized it for use in the US in 1866.

    Many federal agencies are required by law to use metric units in procurement and grants, and the meter is by law "the preferred system of weight and measures" for US trade and commerce.

  • Re:When in Rome (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 26, 2004 @12:41PM (#8398214)
    I support a lot of computer newbies on Windows. I really think that most of the probelm wis with the trainers, not with the trainees.

    Every time I got a few newbies together for a Windows "class", about 1/3 of the time was spent actually educating them about files and how they are organized on the disk, something most "professional" trainers ignore yet it underlies so much of the structure in Windows.

    An equal amount of time is spent on the user interface in Windows; basics like single and double-clicking, right-clicking, selecting single and multiple files (CTRL- and SHIFT-click) and maneuvering through the Start menu.

    Only the final 1/3 is spent on actual applications like Office (Word and Excel are enough for almost everyone), Internet Explorer (blecch!) and always, always WinZIP and Acrobat Reader.

    In the end, I find that most of the people I train move into other applications with no trouble and no further training. Recently, quite a few have been asking about Linux and several have moved to Linux with almost no training. The most confusing thing in most distros is the horrible, horrible organization on Linux "Start" menus, which, I have to admit, confuse the hell outa me too! But moving from IE to Mozilla? from M$ Office to Open Office? Pagemaker to Scribus (one customer)? NOT a problem!
  • by jimicus ( 737525 ) on Thursday February 26, 2004 @12:50PM (#8398326)
    Nope. They're doing that first BECAUSE it will be most difficult.

    Better to fall at the first hurdle than spend a fortune on getting over every other little problem and find the final hurdle is insurmountable. Exchange migration (including keeping all the existing emails, calendar entries etc) is distinctly Non-Trivial.

    If they can find (or write their own) system which Just Works as an alternative to Exchange then not only will they find the path to migraton that much clearer, but if they release it migration will become a real possibility for many organisations which right now couldn't even consider it.

  • by rseuhs ( 322520 ) on Thursday February 26, 2004 @01:43PM (#8399005)
    What many people don't seem to realize is that Microsoft can't give 90% discounts to everybody.

    Well, they could if they didn't have such moneypits as MSN, WinCE, Stinger and XBox, but they do and somebody has to pay for all that.

    Remember that this is all just the beginning. So Thailand gets huge discounts, not just for the government, but for everybody. And all this because they started a very successful Linux programme. Munich got the chance for huge discounts but they declined. (What message is that? "Even at only 10% of the normal price, Windows isn't worth it")

    How long until other countries start Linux programmes? It's a win-win situation, either you run Linux or you get huge discounts from Redmond, you can't lose.

    I doubt that Microsoft's tactics can work. Currently they are encouraging everybody to start Linux programs and evaluations by offering hefty discounts to them while ripping off their loyal customers.

    It will take years and probably longer than a decade, but in the end Windows and MS Office (not Microsoft, they have enough money to survive virtually forever) is doomed.

  • by dapyx ( 665882 ) on Thursday February 26, 2004 @02:17PM (#8399542) Homepage
    In 390 BC, Rome was saved from the invasion of the Gauls by a flock of geese.

    In 2004 AD, Rome shall be saved from the invasion of the Borg by another type of birds: PENGUINS!

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