Linus on SCO, and the Desktop Being 10 Years Away 827
An anonymous reader writes "In this interview from last week's Linux.conf.au in Australia, Linus Torvalds talks about how the SCO lawsuit 'riled' him and led him to spend a week writing an application to archive his email, and how he think Linux will take 5 to 10 years to become mainstream on the desktop."
It's all about the desktop journey (Score:5, Interesting)
I guess, to some degree that is because I started using Linux as my main desktop close to five years ago, but also because I am aware that profound social changes take time.
I think the key to the desktop is preloaded machines by big-vendor being available at retail stores. Only when the vendors have a stake in the success of Linux will they make sure that the peripherals state on the box that "it runs on Linux".
Different interpretations? (Score:5, Interesting)
Can someone clarify his view for me? I don't follow Linux very closely, but am genuinely curious what Linus' real thoughts on the future of Linux for the desktop are.
Linux becoming commercial? (Score:5, Interesting)
Linus commenting (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:It's all about the desktop journey (Score:4, Interesting)
I'd love to have an easy to use system that I could handle without much difficulty while still having the power of Unix at hand should I want it.
This is not Linux.
Apple has it down pat, but that requires an investment in their hardware. Mandrake, Redhat, and SUSE have the install process down pat. The issue comes in just general responsiveness (behavior with hardware, plug & play, getting software installed/uninstalled.)
The question is when we will see something like this for the PC. Who will create the PC equivalent of MacOS X?
The Board is set, the pieces are moving... (Score:3, Interesting)
The next version of windows and how they move to get it mainstream (new standards, no forward compatibility for older windows, whatever) will be a big factor in how the desktop 'game' plays out...
Linux is developing for desktop with Lindows OS [lindows.com] , its M$ turn, we need to wait for their move.
Re:I agree (Score:5, Interesting)
Seriously, the whole hiding the apps from the user thing ticks me off. I like the OS X solution better. You can have an optional start menu if you like, but make the apps as easy to add/remove as OS X and Be OS and NeXTstep. All GUI programs should be this way. None of this "Program Files" you're too stupid to look here, and don't mix the GUI apps into the same dir with the command line ones.
OK. I'm done. Do I need to don a fireproof suit?
Linux desktop had always chased Windows desktop... (Score:0, Interesting)
Looking Longhorn, I wonder what Linux developers are thinking. They have no uber control power like Microsoft HQ, therefore it's hard for them to make some grand design framework like WinFX/Avalon etc. at once. Though Linus predicts it as 5 - 10 years, I think until some driving force like UserLinux takes off as strong entity Linux desktop will never take off.
about that email archive program... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Crapola (Score:3, Interesting)
Linus' point (Score:5, Interesting)
That's why Redhat, IBM, SuSEa re investing in companies like Ximian who focus on the desktop dark-side of Linux.
Longhorn won't be out till 2005 if I'm correct and many users are very insatisfied with Windows XP, from Sobig/Blaster outbreaks dragging down productivity levels to random annoyances like messenger popups and a full suite of internet blockers/virus stoppers/software firewalls needed to surf the web.
Users are keeping an eye open for alternatives, that's why Linux desktop development needs to become desirable, marketable, usable and thus a replacement for the Windows desktop.
Desktop (Score:4, Interesting)
I think everybody understands the lack of an exchange type collaboration server hurts business adoption, but it's not the only thing keeping people from switching.
My business wants to go linux, but we can't. We use an ERP system called Macola. It makes heavy use of VBA and soon will support only MS SQL Server. There is nothing we can do short of writing our own manufacturing and accounting packages.
Before you point me at compiere, let me inform you that I've done research into that. I'm not a big fan of the lead developer. He's dragging his feet on database independence (when few people want real independence, they just want an open database supported) because he wants to get paid for it. Many people have brought forth suggestions and were willing to get started only to get no response from him. Development companies were willing to put people on it and they get no feedback as to the status of the project. So still the whole system is tied to oracle and there's no feedback at all as to when that might change. For the lead developer of an open source project he is VERY stingy with the information. Let's not ignore the fact that there is no current manufacturing module. There are, however, 3 separate development projects that aren't working with each other because of petty pride issues. The lead dev does nothing to stop the pettyness. So fuck compiere. I'll check up on it next year. I don't expect it to be usable then either at the pace it's moving. You have no idea how many people hit their forum gung-ho ready to start working only to leave again after getting no answers to their questions.
There is nothing else out there that is as close to production ready as compiere. There are erp systems that run on linux, but those are for the big boys. My company is very small, the cost of buying those erp systems would be more than the savings switching to linux would create.
Re:Different interpretations? (Score:3, Interesting)
The point is these are somewhat captive and specific-use oriented desktops, not those of the great unwashed public which account for upwards of 90% of the market. I don't know that it will take 10 years but it might - M$ won't sit back and allow the erosion of their virtual monopoly to take place without a fight and this will include everything from economic incentives for game producers (can't do that for hardware OEMs anymore can they? but the judge didn't say anything about software producers) to "lowering" their prices. Yes, I predict the "value" to the consumer may increase because M$ will bundle more and more into their "base" offerings as they have done in the past - to the point where on a new system the fact that you get "everything" included (OS, game applications, mildly hobbled office apps, etc.) for only a mere $300 over the cost of the hardware will turn people's heads. Problem is you wont' be able to purchase these things individually anymore (have you tried to purchase just Word lately?) so the real value won't be known - marketing M$ style 101.
There are still lots of apps that people "must" have that we (Linux) don't quite get right. That's a lot of inertia to overcome.
On the other hand, I see a ray of sunshine in M$ move to a new OS that is not backwards compatible with much of the software out there. Personally I think they're shooting themselves in the foot, and it remains to be seen just how incompatible they will be - but this coupled with some more work on binary compatibility stuff (WINE, etc.) will make moving to Linux that much easier for some.
It's going to be an interesting decade.
Re:I agree (Score:1, Interesting)
The whole push of home users and home computing reached critical mass at the same time these users were doing computing at work. Before that they were only a novelty or curiousity, learning toys for the kids.
Once half the people using computers at work are on Linux desktops (at work), they'll eventually need to use it on their laptop and at home. And by that time I'm sure every linux distro will be ready. Well, all except the laptop support, and that's the damn vendor's fault.
Why dupe Windows? (Score:1, Interesting)
In the meantime, I think we would to well to try and dupe MacOSX - I hereby command all you Slashdot junkies to band together and create a Linux distro inspired by Knoppix [knoppix.net], or better yet MEPIS [mepis.org], that duplicates the look of OSX. Many Windows users are closet Macophiles, but they're trapped in their hardware and software configuration. Give them an OSX-y Linux with OpenOffice.org and they'll drop Windows like the bad habit that it is.
While we're at it, make the installer automagically import all their emails, favorites and My Documents directory. OK ready, set GO!
It will be ready next month! (Score:1, Interesting)
It has been extensively reviewed for usabillity problems and now even baby joe can use it. Want to use your digital camera? Just plug it in, click the icon that automagically appears on the desktop and there are your photos. Want to burn a cd? K3b is your freind! Want to work on your documents? OpenOffice! Want to watch videos? Kaffine! Surf the web? Konqueror, now with Apple enchancements!
Other killer apps include sodipodi, gimp, synaptic, kroupware, kpdf, peacock, sound-jucier, Kate, Quanta, Kmymoney, Karbon, inkscape, rosegarden, scribus, frozen bubbles and much more. You will find that there is NO lack of applications for Linux. And there is always Wine/Crossover office for that one app thats not ported yet.
KDE 3.2 is the tipping point. If this isnt "ready", then nothing ever will be!
Re:Five to Ten (Score:5, Interesting)
We produce a lot of floating point intensive code that depends critically on the underlining OS calls, and while the code may run, it becomes quite a chore to justify to the customer (government) why the results may differ from earlier versions. This tendency for code to be brittle with compiler and OS upgrades is not something we observe under IRIX and SunOS, the two other platforms we support, and have supported for longer than LINUX.
Ahhh the joys of floating point. There are days when I wish that floating point was banned. Customers have a nasty tendency to assume that floating point means totally accurate. Very few really understand the limitations of floating point and comments along the lines of "what do you mean I can't store 20 significant figures in my database?", "I entered 1.10 and now it's 1.0999999", "I've been running my simulation through a billion iterations using a 'float' type and the answer is screwy" are not only common but rife.
That said, within the limitations of the floating point code I've written, I've not observed changes on Linux between versions. I do observe differences between the results on Linux, Solaris, HPUX, AIX and Windows in the least significant digit, but that doesn't suprise me.
I wonder therefore whether you are being burned by standard flags on the compiler with respect to mathematical optimisation. If you are suddenly using --fast-math that will definitely screw your results, as will any of the other flags turned on by that setting. Ditto check -m128bit-long-double -m96bit-long-double or similar settings that might alter your precision and throw new answers out.
To be quite honest, if you are seeing changes in behaviour and you have test cases which demonstrate these changes, you should inform the GCC team via the mailing list and try and determine what has happened. GCC vies to be compliant (often more compliant than other compilers) with IEEE and ANSI standards, and useful bug reports can go a long way to maintaining that compliance.
If you haven't logged such problems, well, nobody else knows that that problem exists.
Cheers,
Toby Haynes
Re:Nonsense (Score:4, Interesting)
For someone already computer savvy, perhaps.
For your average non-techie, it's not. Hell, even I had issues with Mandrake 8.0 - and I'm doing PHP coding for a living at the moment.
The 3d-modelling niche is a very good example on how fast Linux can take over a market when the apps are there.
The 3d-modeling niche is a very good example of Linux running not on the desktop but as a processing cluster (in this case, rendering graphics).
Re:the biggest barrier of all (Score:3, Interesting)
Come talk to me when you can play strategy-games on a console (like Combat Mission, Europa Universalis etc.). Or how about Flight-simulators (Falcon 4.0, Lock On, etc.)? Nowhere to be seen on consoles. Online games are only just now taking off on consoles, but PC's still dominate there.
Consoles are great for some type of games, but they absolutely suck for other types of games.
Some things to consider (Score:5, Interesting)
First, with Microsoft EOL'ing support and bugfixes this year for NT4 and 98/SE, I see many users and organizations casting about for alternatives. IIR, about 25% of the Internet-connected users are still using 98/NT. With XP being expensive and probably requiring new HW as well, they will be forced to consider Something New(tm). This may mean looking at OS X - since they need new hardware anyway. Or, more likely, they may consider "trying" Linux on their current equipment - especially if they have a friend, or know someone, who can install in for them for cheap or free.
Second, and this ties in with the first, public schools and many businesses are really starting to feel the financial crunch of constant HW/Software/License upgrade. Many public schools (like ours) cannot lease equipment due to board policies against "incumbering subsequent administrations" (or some such nonsense) meaning that new equipment is cash out of pocket and old equipment, which can no longer be used/supported, is surplussed at a total loss. Businesses, as well, face the fact that upgrading older equipment in order to run the new OS from the Beast, simply to be able to have 10 more unused features added to Word, is stupid and wastefull.
When you sit back and think about it, for most schools and businesses, 95% of computer use is for what? Email, Internet access, basic word processing/spreadsheets/"powerpoint" and maybe some IM or connectivity to a "mainframe" for financials, records, etc. which generally means some sort of TN5250/whatever emulation. ALL of this can be done with Linux as the desktop - with the added bonus(?) of increased productivity due to end users not being as able to install Webshots, Kazaa, Trojan-loaderPro, or VirusOfTheHour 6.0. This means work can be done.
But there is still a huge hurdle. Most companies and schools don't necessarily have the technical know-how or confidence to roll out Linux on the desktop. I think this is a pretty big hurdle, but not a showstopper. First, I see a lot more advertising from big players ("no one ever got fired for recommending IBM") on prime-time TV for Linux. Second, I see that Sam's Club is selling a $300.00 Linux box with Linux pre-installed and (in our store) an entire row of monitors demoing it sitting next to the XP boxes selling for hundred$ more. This is bringing Linux into the conciousness of the public (although as geeks we seem wonder how anyone could have missed it for so long :-)
Let me speak from personal experience for a second. Last week we had an engineer from a software vendor show up to install an expensive, high-end HW/SW solution. Unfortunately, it runs on windows only, so we had to buy several Win2k3 Servers and have their engineer set it up for us (lot's of custom tweaks, lots of $$$). I asked him if there were any plans for porting it to Linux, especially considering that he recommended checking with their company first before applying any MS patches to these bexes as some of them have broken their software in the past (eek!). He turned and looked at me and said that over 80% of the places he's been to have asked the same question. So they've begun porting. It should be available next year sometime. Score one for the good guys.
Along those same lines, I took him around to some of our installations to test the new system on our workstations. Wanting to start with the possibility of having the greatest success, I sook him to one of our "newer" labs. His first comment was "You're using Dell GX110's still? Those are, like 4 years old!". I didn't bother to tell him that, as Systems Administrator, I'm still waiting for my GX110. In fact, we still have IBM 340 workstations deployed. Those are 6 or 7 years old.
We are facing a huge budget crunch. Because of this, we are being forced to do a close eval of possible ways to cut costs and squeeze the most out of our current investments. Af
Re:I agree (Score:5, Interesting)
The problem is that search does not work - it is not intuitive, makes assumptions about file types, and most importantly it is DIFFERENT from Windows 2000 (MS best OS ever).
With Linux I am comfortable that all the tools work the way they are advertized.
IBM is going to a Linux desktop (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Desktop (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:the biggest barrier of all (Score:3, Interesting)
- Home desktop users want to play 3d video games.
- There is no 3D hardware drivers available for the Linux kernel or for XFree86 that performs within a marginal distance from windows/MacOS 3D hardware (except pre-beta quality nVidia drivers).
- idsoftware FPS games + UT/UT2k3 is NOT by any means remotely close to any significant fraction of FPS games. Even id based games aren't ported to linux.
- games "like solitare" aren't even playable on linux. Just check out Yahoo online multiplayer card games, or any other online gaming community similar. You won't find it to work on Linux's web brosers.
- When we talk about games, we don't mean single player i want to blow time while I wait for my 4:00 appointment game. We are talking about online multiplayer games, which are virtually non-extant on linux and the consol.
Your statements that "most people play games on a consol" are baseless, and no evidence exists which agrees with anything your are saying. On the other hand, there are plenty of online PC gamers, and those games just ARE NOT available on any other platforms than OS X and Windows.
Just to make some SPECULATION (not facts or claims) I'll bet there are currently more online gamers playing a game RIGHT NOW than there are home users running linux on the desktop period. (at least in the US). Check out Gamespy Stats [gamespy.com]. And these are just the gamespy supported games, which is very far from a complete list.
Also from that list you can see that the games supported on linux are a very very small minority of the overall games listed. (Quake 1/2/3, RTCW, UT, UT2k3, ET)
None of my post proves that what is holding back linux on the home deskto is true, but if you stop to consider the enthusiasts are going to be the first to switch to linux, and the enthusiast/competant windows users have a significant portion of 3d gamers using ATI or nVidia 3d video cards playing online multiplayer games, its hard to argue that the HUGE 3D MP gamer community is an untapped audience that would switch to linux in a heartbeat if 3d video hardware were available for it and most popular games ram on linux.
Don't point to the failure of Loki. They faild on their own. Their business model was based on existing linux users feeling sorry for them. They had absoulutely no chance with their strategy. No game they published came out for linux remotely CLOSE to the same time it came out for windows. Forcing anybody who was interested in such titles to buy the windows release and dual boot.
People get that Microsoft is garbage now (Score:5, Interesting)
My roommate was working tech support in the summer, and when blaster hit he definitely started noticing angry people saying stuff like "Windows is bullshit!", who had probably never thought about it that way before (i.e. previously they just blamed computers in general, or themselves). People are starting to blame Microsoft for their failures. And that can only lead to them looking for another option.
Re:I agree (Score:3, Interesting)
A few simple examples:
1. Environment settings dialog. You go try edit the "path" environment variable and then tell me that a focus group said this was nice.
2. Windows XP control panel. In particular the changes they did to dialogs like Services, with an "Advanced" and "Simple" tab in the bottom of the window. You honestly believe groups and surveys recommended that?
3. File sharing in Windows XP Home edition. First version of Windows where I had to give up on helping a guy sharing a simple directory (without passing along floppy disks between computers with some weird setup).
I seriously doubt Microsoft used usability tests for anything but a couple of versions of Windows back in the 90'ies. Its not something they do on all their GUIs, thats for sure.
Interface testing (Score:5, Interesting)
Nothing to do on a weekend?
Head down to a mall and set up a user interface test. Call the mall first and ask if they will donate an area to the activity. Take machines down and set up tables.
Ask passers by to take a survey. Give them a task to complete. After they try it, have them fill out a survey about the experience. Collect the surveys on a website so open source developers can access the info.
Sound like a good idea?
Re:Nonsense (Score:3, Interesting)
They can't be that good if they came up with the abomination that is the WinXP start menu. I've watched so many users struggle with it and ask me to turn it back to the way it was. Their much-hyped user studies seem to be used simply to rubber-stamp their next interface, instead of making any actual improvement.
Then you talk about Usability. As if MS's 'thousands of files in a huge tree, with some scattered around the drive in other directories' and the registry that isn't a registry, but a license key storage and a way to keep from putting settings in a file in the program's directory... That certainly loses a few points for MS.
My point isn't that Linux is better, but that MS is quite bad and you simply don't see it because you're used to it.
But stick a user, someone who never needs to fiddle with the registry or open a shell, into KDE and WinXP configured in a similar way (icons on the desktop and in the main menu, etc) and I doubt either one will have trouble. The Linux user might find the lack of a specific Windows feature to be confusing, but it's not like KDE won't do that, it'll just have a different way.
If KDE isn't ready for the desktop, neither is WinXP. They're very much alike.
What about this interface? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:I agree (Score:3, Interesting)
It seems to me that there also hasn't been enough inovation so far. However, I think Apple is heading in the right direction. Expose ROCKS! I just wish it was easier to control. The F keys are a little too out of reach IMO.
P.S. I apologize for any incoherance in this post. I have so many things I want to say and just not the room to say them here.
Re:And the number is .... (Score:3, Interesting)
wget -O - http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,8
Re:I agree (Score:3, Interesting)
Don't confuse what IT says with reality. My experience with IT support has been that they will say whatever they need to avoid creating trouble. When their workload decreases significantly, or a round of lay-offs is around the corner, expect a sudden rush to XP migration, because suddenly 'it makes sense for the business'.
Re:Nonsense (Score:3, Interesting)
The problem for small businesses is that if they had something as easy to use as quickbooks, I know a lot of people that would be willing to dump Windows because they are fed up with viruses, crashes, upgrade cycles, etc.. In our own business, we run Macintosh OSX on the desktop. Why? It allows the flexiablity of a native Unix enviroment for geeks like me, and gives us access to main stream applications people are familar with like Dreamweaver, Adobe Photoshop, InDesign, QuarkXpress, Microsoft Office (Which I like on the Mac btw), and a few great applications you won't find other places, like Final Cut Pro.
Although there are several small businesses, with fewer than 10 employees, that are fed up and I have overseen switching their computers from older windows machines to Macintosh, and the most common complaint is that there is no Solitare. Other than that they are happy things don't crash and Mac is easier to use. Drag 'n drop actually works.
Enough about Mac and back to Linux. The other thing that is taughted as Linux's great strength is also its achellis heel: flexablity. The fact that you could have 100 boxes with 100 different configurations is a nightmare for developers. Which desktop do you develop for, Gnome or KDE? How many users out there would understand that Gnome and KDE both are on Linux? One time at a local seminar we took 3 computers. 1 running RH/Gnome, 1 runnng SuSE/KDE, and 1 FreeBSD running KDE, and almost everyone in the room though the two running KDE were the same OS. They don't understand the difference nor care too, they just need it to work.
Re:Chasing Taillights Is Good (Score:2, Interesting)
Nope, if I gave that impression it's only because I express myself badly.
What I am arguing is that we should learn from the people who created the first computers, and decided to stick with the familiar qwerty keyboard.
The qwerty keyboard was originally designed to make it difficult to type too fast, because that could cause the mechanical parts inside the typewriter to jam (at least according to the urban myth :) ). Since there is obviously no risk that this would happen in a computer, why didn't they change the keyboard layout to something better when they introduced the personal computer? Because they wanted to gain acceptance among people who had years of experience using typewriters professionally, and didn't want to alienate and annoy them by introducing more differences than necessary.
For all I know, it is quite possible that alternative keyboard layouts like Dvorak are considerably better that qwerty --- for typing. But for marketing a new superior technology that had other more important benefits to offer, they would have sucked severely.
Now, let us consider Emacs' key bindings from the perspective of an experienced Word user... :-)
I used Mandrake as my desktop at work for 2+ years (Score:1, Interesting)
I also never had any problems with email virii because I wasn't using stupid Outlook.
The Mandrake Update feature worked better than Windows Update at the time.
When people say Linux isn't ready for the desktop, they mean on home user PCs for first time owners!
Re:It's all about the desktop journey (Score:3, Interesting)
You can probably find an iconset that's identical to Windows (or perhaps just rip the Windows icon files into a KDE iconset).
Most KDE dialogs are already designed to look like the Windows equivalents, when there's nothing wrong with the Windows ones. Some dialogs/panels are redesigned simply because they are very poor in Windows, or because they don't fit the KDE/GNU/Linux model.
Re:I agree (Score:3, Interesting)
For example, very little functionality is really needed to produce a document, but look at Word in Office 2000/XP, which are apparently what users want. There is no real productivity gain in the production of 99% of all documents over Word Perfect 5.2 for DOS from nearly 20 years ago, yet Word is 100x bigger, requires 100x more memory and nearly 1000x more processor power.
Re:Chasing Taillights Is (Score:3, Interesting)
To change some settings in Mozilla you should of course look under "Edit" in the menu system, and not under "Tools" like in all other programs in the Windows world.
In StarOffice, the keyboard combination to insert a non-breaking space is "Ctrl-Space", rather than Word's "Ctrl-Shift-Space". Please, somebody, why?
Let's see...
- Because many of those conventions (e.g. Netscape's) existed before MS chose to take a different route for no reason (other than maybe lock-in)?
- Because MS often made brain-damaged choices? They essentially changed the Mac's well-researched ones. Guess why? Precisely for the sake of being different, as look & feel lawsuits were (alas) looming. Examples:
- Put main menu at the bottom, not top.
- Put application menus inside windows, not atop the screen (insert usual Fitt's law rant).
- Add invisible (contextual) menus everywhere, forcing beginners to master two mouse buttons.
- Then duplicate everything in cryptic toolbars. [hcooh.ch]
- Make applications not relocatable, then "cure" the resulting C:\Program Files mess by duplicating everything in a "Start Menu".
- Move all dialog's "Confirm" button to the left, not right.
- Use control, not another key, as modifier key in GUI apps (so what happens in the GUI app "xterm"?)
- Top quote instead of bottom quote in mail.
- etc., etc.
Why, yes why duplicate this disaster of an interface? Blending Unix with a better desktop is eminently possible -- cf. NeXT or OS X, which aren't known to give switchers any problems whatsoever.Developing Linux Apps (Score:2, Interesting)
I got into developing for Windows by way of DOS, and my interest is in acquiring lab measurements from A/D converters and displaying results in real time or near real time. What I am doing is a tiny, tiny niche, but the PC accomodated many of these tiny niches to add up to a big whole.
DOS and PC's were definitely the way to go -- they were the PDP-11's of the 80's and 90's -- you had A/D cards for the PC bus available from several manufacturers, and as far as drivers, what drivers? Here are the I/O ports that control the card, and hey, with Turbo Pascal or with Quick Basic, you could poke and peek those ports and you were in business.
The switch to Windows was a natural progression, although DOS is much better for real time of any sort because you have control over all of the interrupts. His Billness made a big, big push to bring the DOS game development community over to Windows with WinG followed by DirectX. A real time lab data display program is kind of like a video game, and some of the obscure Windows and later DirectX calls meant to support certain types of games (ScrollWindowEx(), IDirectDraw::WaitForVerticalBlank()) helped a lot for what I was doing. As for the A/D converter I/O ports, those became a thing of the past because any A/D card company wanting to serve the Windows market provided Windows drivers.
So in going from DOS to Windows, one went to a higher level of abstraction, trading I/O ports for some hardware manufacturer's drivers, trading direct writing to the VGA frame buffer for GDI and DirectX. But the abstractions provided by Windows were far from easy to use, and a great deal of effort went into understanding them, working around the bugs in them, and burrowing into the Windows API to wring out performance.
So I am interested in programming for Linux. A/D and graphics is also handled by abstractions here, a lot of these abstractions are different from what I am used to, and the abstractions are a patchwork (Qt, GTK, STL -- I am in buzzword mode because I haven't used any of these, but I get the sense there is a lot of figuring out in terms of what to even invest development effort in).
So I am thinking, I could bet on Linux as the Next Best Thing and learn API's at the level that I know Windows API's, or I could, hey, go to another level of abstraction and go for something like Java, Python with wxPython plus C++ modules for speed tuning, or perhaps something else. Just as going from DOS to Windows left ports and frame buffers behind, I am thinking that the next step is to leave OS-specific abstractions behind, whether they are Windows API's or Linux API's.
My point is this: WINE is pointed to as a non-solution to Linux ascendency as all the interesting apps will still also run under WIndows. Isn't platform independent (as with Java or wxWindows or wxPython) also a non-solution? If I am to write for Linux and use Linux APIs to build more powerful programs than what the lowest-common denominator platform-independent stuff is capable, what are the Linux equivalents to ScrollWindowEx() and IDirectDraw:WaitForVerticalBlank()? Or does Linux even have such calls as they are only part of Windows as part of an MS initiative to pry game developers from Windows? What API goodies does Linux have to pry game developers from Windows?
Re:I agree (Score:3, Interesting)
Thanks. I'll make the change as you suggest in a moment. ...how's that? (Cut some spaces, used - instead of "and".)
Alternately; "Programs are plans of action. Software is often an assortment of unplanned code that should be avoided." ...hmmmm.
The 'quote', isn't a quote though, it's an original. A friend and I passed a dozen or so messages back and forth, and this fell out of it;
Me: That phrase popped out at me. Are you saying...
I like the distinction, though I've always used the two words interchangeably, usually leaning to software if the words "program" or "project" are used in a non-computer context at the same time.
Him: Nope. I'm making the distinction as in Webster's:
In other words, we've developed a set of operational procedures which, taken as a group, constitute a program which has nothing to do with computer programming.
Me: OK, so what you're saying is that software is not necessarily an embodiment of a 'plan of action' (a process). It might be, but it does not have to be. If that is the case...
Him: Now *that* I understand! They say that "where there's smoke, there's fire," but sometimes it's just an old tree stump.
My sig is an attempt to capture the same basic idea, though it depends on quite a few details before it makes any sense.
Needless to say, I'd rather be working on the same team he is...instead of the mixed group of smart but reactionary folks I'm with right now.
On Linux usability (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't know about that. However, it's been pretty clearly established that, five or six years ago, a tech hobbyist could use Linux as his sole desktop. He might have to use care in purchasing hardware, and he might have to deal with LaTeX instead of a word processor. He might have to re-request documents in a different format. He might spend an awfully long time getting things up and running. However, Linux was usable alone.
KDE and GNOME and other projects steadily got easier to use and were cleaned up. Windows compatibility improved. Companies slowly started to throw their weight behind Linux.
Two or three years ago, I'd say that a power user could reasonably start using Linux. There were still some annoying issues. Antialiasing wasn't in use, and many folks noticed this, if they were accustomed to Windows-style antialiasing. Sound drivers at the time were usually OSS/Free, so distributions used software sound servers to do sound mixing, which frequently resulted in poor-quality-resampled sound that broke up. XFree86 3.3 was still around, and 3D support in 3.3 was pretty bad. You still had to use the command line for a reasonable number of things (probably looking online for someone having the same problem), though folks were working hard on frontends.
Today, I think that a power user can comfortably run Linux, without any of the old drawbacks. 3d support is generally roughly on par with Windows. Audio is much better -- most distributions use ALSA and take advantage of hardware mixing, though more unusual features like hardware reverb generally aren't supported. Things like support for cheapo printers and reliable Windows filesharing support are in place. Most Windows productivity programs have an acceptably usable equivalent, and while document compatibility still isn't perfect (OpenOffice isn't identical with MS Office), it's good enough for most people to comfortably get work done without making an annoyance of themselves. Things are *not* equivalent to Windows. While most unusual hardware can be made to work one way or another (for example, I have a SmartHome USB X10 controller that can be made to work under 2.4 by compiling and installing modules myself...though 2.6 support is not in), it's still not flawless. The typical Linux distribution has gained weight -- GNOME and KDE are both quite heavyweight. Games are just not there -- this may not be an issue for the business desktop, but it's a huge deal for the home desktop. Binary software distribution (and no matter how nice it would be for everything to be open source, it just isn't going to happen) is a phenomenal pain in the ass, even in the presence of the LSB. I have Loki games, games that I purchased perhaps two years ago, that already do not run on current distributions. There is no existing technical solution, short of using Java bytecode and taking the performance hit that doing so entails.
I find that XP Home's multiuser workstation environment is much more accessable to a typical home user. Jane can log on, then she can switch to Bob, then he can log off and Jane can continue using her software. While I have run multiple X servers before on my box, I don't believe that there are any major distros that support such a setup nicely out of the box, and I remember running into all sorts of interesting bugs at the time -- run OpenGL software or something, and freezes started coming up.
Two of the major players in the Linux productivity world are OpenOffice and Mozilla, requred for MS Office and IE equivalence. Both of these use oddball widget sets. They are usable, and generally operate roughly like other applications on the system do. However, they are still disconcerting to the user. I *know* when something is using Athena or XUL or whatever OpenOffice uses, and I adapt my behavior accordingly. It's still confusing, unintuitive, and looks unprofessional to someone just trying to do work, however. By comparison, the Qt-Gtk differences are much mor
GNOME is Windows, but slower (Score:4, Interesting)
THEY'RE RE-CREATING WINDOWS.
No, really, they are. That's not necessarily bad, but it is a bit scary. Look:
GConf == Registry
Nautilus == Explorer shell
Bonobo == DCOM
GStreamer == Direct Show
DBus == (something they do now)
Much of the same duplications are being done for KDE, too. Re-inventing, re-inventing, re-inventing.
Furthermore, they're doing it worse. Or at least more slowly. Nautilus is SLOW. GNOME is much slower on equivalent hardware than Windows XP is.
I'm fine with re-implementing something that is the rigth answer. I'm not convinced all of these are, and I'm *know* we're not as fast or stable as XP in the GUI.
I want to see Linux and free/open software succeed. I really really do. I don't particularly LIKE OS/X, but it is a better experience than GNOME is, still.
I once more suggest that either the KDE team or the GNOME team concede to the other. Stop duplicating or triplicating efforts. We're still pretty far behind, and it doesn't seem to me that we're catching up (except on the simplest of desktop tasks).
Re:I agree (Score:5, Interesting)
If you look outside the English speaking world Linux has a greater chance of reaching the desktops within next couple of years.
I am involved in a project to bring out a Tamil desktop for tamil speakers (Zhakanini [zhakanini.org]. Only less than 5% of the population has access to computers now. One of the main reasons the majority do not use computer is the lack of tamil interface. Microsoft is not going to support Tamil interface anytime soon (for an unknown market demand) and the open source applications provide great support for localisation.
Combining these two factors this project aims to bring out a desktop for firts time computer users. they are not bothered about existing applications and we will be selling them pre-installed systems. Once we make the usage rate to say 20% of population with zhakanini, Linux desktop will be the default for tamil speakers (about 80 million).
I am sure there are many more communities like this in the world.
Re:I agree (Score:2, Interesting)
And, well, we also all talked back to it too: "Door is ajar? The door is not a jar; the door is a door!" :-)
(Amazingly, no one ever tired of that joke. But we were all disappointed that cars stopped coming out with speech as an option.)
As for me, I was wanting future versions to let you easily upload your own sound samples for every error condition! Sort of like ringtones for your car.
"Are you really going to leave me here with my lights on again? You remember all the trouble that caused last time, don't you?"
Or maybe a Britney Spears-like: "Oops, you did it again...." might be more popular.
Or maybe for service-required warnings for the Hitchhiker's Guide fans: "I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left hand side."