Memo Confirms IBM Move To Linux Desktop? 881
m5shiv writes "The Inquirer is reporting on an allegedly leaked internal memo from IBM CIO Bob Greenberg discussing IBM's move to a Linux desktop: 'Our chairman has challenged the IT organization, and indeed all of IBM, to move to a Linux based desktop before the end of 2005. This means replacing productivity, web access and viewing tools with open standards based equivalents.' The enemy of my enemy is my friend?"
winder if a new DE will come out of this (Score:5, Interesting)
Hmm ... (Score:5, Interesting)
Turn around. (Score:5, Interesting)
A step in the right direction (Score:4, Interesting)
Too bad they didn't do that with OS/2... (Score:5, Interesting)
Linux as a desktop? (Score:5, Interesting)
Think of it - if the whole of IBM starts using a well designed desktop system, i'm sure a lot of other companies will follow suit.
This really is what Linux needs - a HUGE and well known company using not only a Linux user dekstop system but also assocaited open source applications to get things done in everyday business, while managing NOT to use any M$ products whatsoever.
And if successful and I never thought I'd be saying this but it could be the beginning of the end of Microsoft's total dominance in the desktop OS market.
Re:Only makes sense (Score:5, Interesting)
Lotus Notes Client? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Hmm ... (Score:5, Interesting)
Probably the big reason they wouldn't be interesting in flaunting it so much is that their workstation offerings are far more limited than Sun's, who has made a big effort to show that they are ``with it'' when it comes to Linux on the desktop (even if they continue to adamantly support Solaris as a server OS).
But I don't know. Just seems to be like that.
Re:Turn around. (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes, but realize that IBM has been around since about 1914, that they have been the "bad guy" before, and just because they are supporting open source now doesn't mean that they couldn't find a way to exploit it for their own selfish good later.
Again, glad they're supporting open-source software, but I wonder how much of their support is in recognition of the value of open-source, and how much is just to spite Microsoft?
hmm... why not use their own hardware.... (Score:1, Interesting)
IBM : Past, Present, Future? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Lotus Notes Client? (Score:5, Interesting)
I haven't heard if it will have full client functionality or just a subset (might be just mail). They are going to have a basic version for release mid-year and then release a full version with offline capability by early next year.
Re:Linux as a desktop? (Score:3, Interesting)
Wouldn't they rather be picking up all the disenfranchised Windows users?
Needless to say replacing all those PC's for Apple G4's and 5's is a massive roadblock for such a switch, but at least people get a taste for something other than Windows, which can't be a bad thing on any level.
Current CEO is the Linux geek... (Score:5, Interesting)
Jokes apart, Gerstner [ibm.com] put this guy on top and it's the one that managed the first sniffing ceremonies towards Linux. Do I see a pattern? Companies on the point of extinction like Apple and IBM (big companies... as far as mindshare and cultural relevance) literally resurrected the moment they embraced OSS and played by it's rules. Other companies like sun [sun.com] are fading away and nasty M$ (Yah, troll me... I'm spelling is M$... yes, I'm biased) is yapping in fear [microsoft.com]. Folks, it's our time. Old PHBs are retiring to Florida's golf resorts, the evangelized decision makers are making space for the new illuminati... I hate to say it, actually I'm not pleased by the "feast or fast" attitude of this industry, but the cosmological pendulum is swinging our way (I just hope I won't be put aside as these fools are today).
Re:Lotus Notes already runs on Linux (Score:5, Interesting)
We don't use it for project management or expenses, though.
FWIW -- I never got the e-mail that started the whole thing and I'm in a position where it would show up in my inbox. There's no mention of it anywhere on the interal web either. This might be a hoax.
- Anonymous IBMer
Notes , organizer. Quicken (Score:3, Interesting)
If IBM is serious, they will help port (or offer incentives) to companies such as Quicken to move. Mostly, they will simply move their own stuff.
Re:This is about dog food (Score:2, Interesting)
The good news here is that since IBM (along with the rest of the world) has been pushing J2EE solutions for so long, many of these tools may already be web based. That would make ALL the difference my friends. J2EE web based apps ARE the MS killer - simply because EVERYONE has dumped the 'it must be installed locally on a Win32 box' mentality.
Last part is a bit of an irony - but Microsoft has pushed .NET so hard, it's made a lot of companies take a serious look at J2EE - simply because Microsoft has said the letters SO MANY TIMES.
funny you should say that... (Score:1, Interesting)
I've been reading Slashdot for years, and I've been wanting to give Linux a try. Yesterday, I downloaded Mepis [mepis.org] and burned it onto a CD to use as a Linux startup disk. This disk contains a full debian-based installation, plus all the basic apps you could want. The idea is that you can boot it in with any reasonably current computer and get a good idea if Linux offers enough to be ready for your desktop.
I'm a writer, and not a hugely technical person. And I've never had a spare computer and the time to install Linux. But with this Mepis disk, I was able to take Linux for a spin on my Vaio, leaving XP fully intact, and without there being any chance of messing up my system.
And I gotta tell you, Linux on the desktop is ready for prime time. Booting from my Mepis disk, I was soon toying around with OpenOffice, Mozilla, etc. And none of this took any configuration work on my part. My mouse, usb flash drive, and even my Nvidea display drivers all pre-loaded automatically. And I was connected to my cable modem with zero configuration -- from the moment I loaded Mozilla, I was online.
I could not have been more impressed. So as to the parent post's claim, "And please don't give me that crap about how Linux is ready for the desktop. It's not." -- I beg to differ. I think Linux is ready for prime time. I fell in love with Mepis in the two hours I played with it, and my next computer will be bought without a cent going to Microsoft.
As far as IBM is concerned... (Score:5, Interesting)
Really, the commercial is so good, it brings tears to your eyes, especially if you are a long-suffering linux advocate of sorts in a sea of micro-idiots.
Re:IBM Profiting from free labor (Score:1, Interesting)
Could IBM be profiting because *gasp* they deliver better service?
Let the free market do it's magic. The GPL/BSD and other free licenses are creating a free market in software again.
Re:Linux as a desktop? (Score:3, Interesting)
Nevertheless, any Linux adoption is good for Apple, as virutally any software for Linux can be ported to MacOS X without too much difficulty. Just look at all the software that has been ported [sourceforge.net] already.
Enterprise Management? (Score:1, Interesting)
for example, if ibm goes all-linux on their hundreds of thousands of desktops, how will they handle things like upgrades and patches, managing user accounts, security, etc.? will they use a non-free distro that has all these features, and if so, which distro(s) out there offer the kind of enterprise management features that ibm's windoze-addled admins have come to depend on?
i am sure that the sysadmins at ibm are asking themselves the same question. or perhaps they already know the answer...
Cisco is making the same move... (Score:2, Interesting)
Cool for a lot of companies already (Score:2, Interesting)
IBM Corp., 350,000 user testbed (Score:2, Interesting)
When you're a company the size of IBM (approx 350k employees worldwide)
Working out the kinks in systems you want to sell (IBM's shift toward services) as well as being able to say, "Hey. We did it company-wide, and it works for us" in a sales pitch to companies small and large.
Its all about strategy. Definitely an intelligent way to testmarket things such as a Business Linux Desktop
It used to be that "Nobody got fired for buying IBM"
While that isn't necessarily true anymore, it just shows that while IBM has shown itself to be a progressive company, they still carry the weight they did when they were that evil empire of old.
Re:how strange would it be? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Business Apps are what it's all about! (Score:2, Interesting)
Yet, when you buy a Thinkpad (Score:1, Interesting)
Not a GNU/Linux fork or a 4.4BSD-Lite derived OS to be seen.
Re:Zero chance of this (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes to both, and I've also used PL/I. (As a matter of fact, I've done so on my Linux box right here, using the Hercules IBM/370 emulator -- but I've also done the real iron.)
And APL which originated at IBM.
That said, they've also come up with some pretty good stuff, just give me a minute to think of it... oh yeah, the Guidance and Control system for the Saturn V, for one
Seriously, that was the old IBM. Lately they've been much better at delivering what the customer wants rather than what IBM thinks the customer needs. IBM isn't going to create their own desktop -- especially not at this stage of the process, where this is deployment for internal use. And I imagine most of the custom client apps will be web and/or Java based.
Not that IBM doesn't know a thing or two about desktop design -- their CUA (Common User Access) object-oriented desktop architecture is/was great, one of the things that OS/2 fans still rave about (although IIRC the OS/2 desktop wasn't quite CUA).
Re:Zero chance of this (Score:5, Interesting)
ShaunDon
Since when has IBM been the enemy? (Score:5, Interesting)
IBM created the PC and then basically "open sourced" the architecture. Who knows why they did this, because lots of people made big money off it, and IBM didn't see very much of that. So IBM made PS/2 and MCA(microchannel) and tried to wrestle the market back. Then they gave up and focused on providing business machines (servers). They kept starting and discontining their home computer lines. I can never remeber if they still make desktops, harddrives or laptops.
I'm not sure why IBM would be the enemy. They are pretty active in the open source community. They don't really "interfere" with our choices of systems.
Also I'm actually surprised to see this in the news. I foolishly assumed IBM already moved to using Linux a few years back. They seem to promote Linux enough at tradeshows and TV and magazine ads. I guess it's hard to promote Linux if you aren't willing to use it in your own company, perhaps this is just putting their money where their mouth is.
A couple of notes on the subject.... (Score:2, Interesting)
On the subject of what is run internally... remember that there is a lot of engineering work that goes on at IBM and there are a lot of people working on servers. This means there are a significant number of people running AIX on their "desktop" (I actually had a small server.) So the transition to GNU/Linux is not much of a stretch for a lot of users and is probably most welcome due to all of the nice tools GNU/Linux has to offer. This of course is from my point of view working in an engineering area. This whole upgrade will be a much bigger challenge for the business side of the company.
Anyway, glad to see this happening. I hope it works out well for them.
Re:An IBMer's perspective (Score:5, Interesting)
I wonder (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:winder if a new DE will come out of this (Score:5, Interesting)
It won't be KDE or Gnome - it will be WebSphere Portal applications w/Mozilla browser.
What desktop... (grin)
IBMers, please do your homework ;) (Score:3, Interesting)
This is so obviously a hoax! But a good one and probably with some insider knowledge. That is not to say that IBM isn't going to push towards linux, but I doubt that Windows will be pushed out completely before the rest of the business world uses it.
Re:winder if a new DE will come out of this (Score:5, Interesting)
That'd really shut the anti-X11 folks up
Last straw: Lotus notes (Score:5, Interesting)
However, as you could read from another article linked at the bottom of the original article, IBM is dropping Lotus Notes. I wonder what's going to take its place.
DT
Re:Access (Score:2, Interesting)
You're kidding right? This is just one of those 'it's different from Microsoft so it must be bad' kind of comments isn't it? The fact is that 123, WordPro, and Freelance have had features for years that are easier and better and are still unmatched by the Microsoft equivalent program.
Re:friends. (Score:2, Interesting)
I work out at IBM in Austin. We did the math about our dealing with Windows updates and virii. If every employee of IBM spends just 30 minutes a year(I know, it's on the low side) dealing with Microsoft updates and problems IBM loses $3,000,000 in lost productivity. That's $3 million. We figured in a year the number was closer to 5 hours or $30,000,000 in lost productivity. That's a healthy chunk of change.
Re:winder if a new DE will come out of this (Score:3, Interesting)
Seriously though (I mean it this time
Re:winder if a new DE will come out of this (Score:3, Interesting)
I agree that GNUStep is pretty cool, but it's main problem, much to my chagrin, is that it's ugly! GNUStep looks like they took OSX, ripped out all the cool quartz stuff, and then asked, "what can we do to make this interface the ghastliest, most horridly ugly thing the world has ever seen?"
It doesn't look like a cheap whore, if that's what you mean. The primary GUI is the classic NeXT look, which de-emphasized the system widgets in favor of the content; you know, the stuff that should actually matter. Making things pretty doesn't make them usable and, regardless, that is something the developer shouldn't have to care about. If an OS X developer uses an NSMenu, it "just worked" when it ran on Windows (using the Yellow Box) and it should "just work" when running with the current GNUstep look or any future theme that might get pushed forward.
That is, the big win with GNUstep is not what you see on the screen, but the OpenStep frameworks underneath. They're what Apple saw enough value in to buy NeXT for many millions and gave them a platform to build Mac OS X from. The free implementation provided by GNUstep could similarly be a basis for Linux getting a usable desktop, too. KDE won't do that and neither will GNOME, simply because there is no interest in developers making it usable beyond scratching their own itches. OpenStep was/is about developing for users, not other developers. Continue to ignore that and you continue to work without a real Linux desktop in the future.
Re:Access (Score:2, Interesting)
So perhaps they're going to port Lotus WordPro, Freelance, 1-2-3, etc, to Linux. In the past, when IBM's standard desktop was OS/2, they had native versions of those products (and Notes), so it shouldn't be too hard.
Hmm ... I work for IBM (Score:3, Interesting)
*If* IBM can get Lotus Notes to run easily on linux and get the vpn client to run, then the problem is 99.9% solved.
A small cog in a very large wheel
Great quote from Groklaw: (Score:2, Interesting)
(Slightly reworded)
What delicious irony. Bill Gates' greatest accomplishment was taking the computing monopoly from IBM. Now IBM is working to destroy the computing monopoly.
Re: KDE people are going... (Score:3, Interesting)
Hope not, because I use KDE often. (Thanks guys!)
Well, I have written about them in the past regarding speed and bloat. They are getting through that nicely today.
I don't mind people making winalike desktops, as long as I can theme them. I do mind taking a nice multi-user OS and turning it into a single user one for no good reason.
Thinkpads with Linux ? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:winder if a new DE will come out of this (Score:3, Interesting)
Before advocating getting rid of X, ask yourself, what's so bad about it?
Is it because its ugly? That's the apps and the environment.
Is it because its slow? X runs just fine on low end hardware. Pentium era machines have no problem with it. Perhaps you are confusing X with the window manager/desktop environment.
Is it because its hard to configure? That's one implimentation of X. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater!
Does network transparency scare you? Fine, don't use it. X will use unix sockets instead, which are pretty damn fast.
Are you scared by X's memory usage in `top' or similiar commands? Why not google to see what that number really includes before complaining about X.
** A happy X user. **
Re:Yep. (Score:3, Interesting)
You're "planning ahead" becomes what you do by default.
*All* your apps are launched with their X 'DISPLAY' set to the VNC X server (a single server, not a per-app one). Then, whereever *you* are, you run a VNC client session to your VNC X Server and see your desktop.
Ta-da.
For bonus points, get some of their cool "active badge" technology so that "the system" knows where you are in the building and routes your desktop and phone extension to wherever you have happened to sit yourself down.
Re:IBMers, please do your homework ;) (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Access (Score:2, Interesting)
Lesson? A compressed, teplated, styled document format sometimes makes more sense than an inline marked up format.
Dude, I'm pretty sure the lesson was supposed to be that Microsoft Word is a big pile of shit.
Chances are good that Word put tons of unseen garbage in the RTF file so that it could be reconverted to a DOC file and retain all of its original formating. I know Word does this with other formats because I've seen it.
It's probably the combination of that and , well , if you have ever seen the HTML it produces it will have tons of lines that look like this "foo <B></B> bar" for no apparent reason.
Re:Thinkpads with Linux ? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Even someone running Word can use RTF (Score:1, Interesting)
Just as amazed that IBM would try to dictate an internal standard that is at current varience with the way the rest of the world works (MS Office file formats). It is one thing for a organization that is relatively isolated to have an unusual standard because they are largely internal in focus, but for a marketing organization to start sending out things that only confuse potential customers, I wonder if this is really going to work or if the pushback will kill this initiative.
I work in a consultants environment, working with dozens of companies every day. When we are jointly working on a proposal, there is no discussion on the file formats that are going to be used to exchange pieces of data. It is presumed. And you'd better be able to use the plug-ins and add-ons that make these things de-facto standards. Even when writing proposals involving Linux or Linux-compatibility.....
Now we just delivered 12,000 files worth of documentation in cross-linked HTML format rather than in doc format so don't get the idea I'm saying every peg has to be the same shape.
But in a marketing world, you sure as heck better be
Unlikely, because we need to use MS Word now (Score:3, Interesting)
I seriously doubt this will affect more than half the organization. Up until about a year ago or so, the offical word processor was Lotus WordPro, because IBM owns Lotus. Well, everyone who uses WordPro hates it, and its file import/export filters are terrible.
So the new official word processor is MS Word. Of course, there are still entire divisions that are using WordPro, because they still have thousands of documents written in WordPro, and they can't afford to buy the MS Word licenses for all their employees.
There was always the possibility of port WordPro to Linux, because IBM owned it. There's no way that MS Word is going to be ported to Linux. So the only way for an IBM employee to conform to both guidelines is to run VMWare.
Now, I know what you're going to say - why doesn't IBM just standardize on Open Office? Well, I don't know why. But I do know that IBM is a huge organizationg that frequently competes with itself, and just because some high-level executive has made some pronouncement, it doesn't mean it will come true.
Re:winder if a new DE will come out of this (Score:3, Interesting)
Is that then why the, ah, content of checkboxes is hardly visible in *step? Or why every widget looks like it came out of a soviet submarine: thick, metallic, and harsh? I've never seen a widget set that tried to look so "bumpy" as *step.
Then there's the horizontal scrolled layout of buttons and vertical menus. There's a reason the rest of the world repudiated this design, and Apple's HCI folks will go into great painful detail telling you about it.
Re:Sluggish how? (Score:3, Interesting)
2) Works fine for me. And I'm not talking about my 2Ghz desktop but my 366mhz Celeron with 192mb RAM. Now both of tht be a driver issue. That does happen regardless of platform, just talk to any ATI card owner from a couple of years ago.
hese are running the OSS ATI drivers, and I have heard of some issues with some other drivers dependaing of the version fot he drivers. It mig
3) See two.
4) I have never seen that issue. I have been using Linux on a desktop for 6 years now. I hit ctrl-n in Mozilla and a new window spawns instantly. Same in Konqueror. I go File-> New in Abiword and get a new window instantly. Maybe this is also a driver issue, or maybe just the app you are using.
X worked on my 8mb RAM 66mhz Agenda VR3. It was just as snappy as a Clie (or Palm) running from a memory card. Basically a second delay or so because it loaded apps from flash memory. X itself is not slow. Your drivers may not be optimized, your installition may be fubared, or you are just using the slowest apps in the world. Maybe the Window Manager or Desktop may have problems. I remember E being kinda ugly resizing windows.
TCPA? (Score:3, Interesting)
I mean, if IBM, the largest manufacturer of PC systems is switching to Linux, are Intel and AMD going to tell them "Sorry, IBM, you are our best customer, but you are going to have to switch to MS OS again?"...
Porting the Application Universe (Score:3, Interesting)
The really awesome aspect of this move is it goes way beyond Mozilla and Open Office(?). This is a move to Linux support for Milling Machine Master and Band Practice Pro and Golf Buddy 2004, since there are probably people at IBM that use such things full time. Windows is not just an OS, it is a universe of associated third-party applications, and engulfing that whole universe will mean that everything gets ported, or that Wine gets a LOT more attention.
The announcement was made for its market and psychological impact, but if it is really serious it will imply enormous efforts devoted to Wine and to porting tools for third-party software vendors. That may be the only way to remain compatable with all those thousands of third-party applications, and still meet the 2005 goal.
This will get very interesting, because IBM probably has contractual access to a lot of source code for Windows. If the SCO stink is "interesting", imagine the legal ruckus that Microsoft is going to make when all the porting tools and Wine improvements start showing up!
Re:As far as IBM is concerned... (Score:1, Interesting)
Christianity has its share of militant idiots. But it is important --for any religion-- to make a distinction between the followers and the basis of that religion. The basic concept of Christianity is forgiveness. Pick up any (non-biased) biography about Mohammed and you'll see how he advocated assasinations and military force to get rid of people who bothered him.
It's also very telling that when Mohammed originally received his revelation, he thought that it was from Satan. Unfortunately, his wife convinced him otherwise.
Certainly, there are Muslims leading peaceful lives and concentrating on the peaceful portions of the Koran, but the core value of Islam is "join or die".
Correction: X11 is a problem (Score:3, Interesting)
There's many parts of *nix that need to be rewritten in a fresh way, and I applaud XFree86 for their effort in bridging the gap and carrying the torch to the masses, but at some point we need to let go and latch onto something better. Windows *has* a market (imho) because of the history of X11.
And to simply nitpick on another issue - (and yes i know Wittgenstein's view that language is use) - but "linux" is just the kernel, potatohead dude, and X11 is not part of that kernel. OSS is much broader and bigger than a kernel and is the basis for a number of varied and disorganized distributions. It's been a great science project and learning tool for a while with some incredibly valuable tools - but let's grow up a little and look to harden more things around here, before we go spouting on about how wonderful X11 is. There's some real issues with X11 that we need to address with alternative base windowing systems. Great - we've got a start with the kernel - lets move on to the next set of components that need some rework