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Software Linux

Iraq's Open Source Possibilities 700

Posted by simoniker from the penguins-of-mass-enlightenment dept.
An anonymous reader writes "In a Linux Journal article, Iraq's 2 person LUG describes the software consumer market in Iraq today, and their hopes for educating the masses about open-source software: 'Iraq is now a blank, unformatted hard disk and can be loaded with anything. Everything is open in Iraq right now. There are no regimented standards or massive expenditure in a particular monopoly's software'."
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Iraq's Open Source Possibilities More

Iraq's Open Source Possibilities

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  • As much as I would like to see... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Kethinov ( 636034 ) on Wednesday December 17, 2003 @10:23PM (#7750338) Homepage Journal
    As much as I would like to see O/S everywhere in the world, I think that what Iraq needs before anything else at the moment is a stable government.

    • Re:As much as I would like to see... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      How about electricity, food, and running water?

      • Re:As much as I would like to see... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Kethinov ( 636034 ) on Wednesday December 17, 2003 @10:27PM (#7750375) Homepage Journal
        Obviously, but you don't get electricity, food, running water, open source software, and the internet without a stable government.

        • Re:As much as I would like to see... (Score:5, Insightful)

          by child_of_mercy ( 168861 ) <johnboy AT the-riotact DOT com> on Wednesday December 17, 2003 @11:05PM (#7750617) Homepage
          government's themselves can be unstable without causing amjor problems.

          Many European parliament's see several Governments in a year as parliamnetary majorities shift and collapse without a break in the provision of essential services.

          strong independent intitutions and the rule of law might be what you're looking for.

          the point is that a hell of a lot of things are needed to make what we'd view as a decent society.

          A starting list for mine would be (in rough order of importance):

          Agricultural Surplus,
          Freedom (expression, speech, religion, assembly, association),
          Accountability,
          Transparency,
          Rule of Law
          Strong independent institutions (within the Rule of Law)
          Democracy


          Once you have all those then free markets can flourish and people can buy what they want.

          But careful who you say that to.

      • Re:As much as I would like to see... (Score:4, Insightful)

        by 1iar_parad0x ( 676662 ) on Thursday December 18, 2003 @02:15AM (#7751758)
        This discussion reminds me about the fall of the Soviet Union. The communist hard-liners attempted to shut down the media. Unfortunately, these men were so out of date; they didn't realize that the media was still able to communicate via fax machine. (This link [cato.org] [cato.org] points to a book review of a popular book on the subject.) That ability allowed reporters to communicate to the outside despite the crackdown of the Soviet government. Those communications ignited the entire country. All the eyes of Russia, and the world, were focused on Moscow. They were specifically focused on Boris Yeltsin. Modern technology enabled this communication. The Iraqis need information about as much as they need water. Imagine if every day of your life, you've learned to live in fear. You've been taught to keep your mouth shut, you're eyes turned away, and you allegiance sworn to a mad dictator. Add to the fact that even if you do heed all these warnings, you may still be randomly charged with treason.

        The Iraqis who wish to be free need to organize and communicate. They need to learn about the outside world. Heck, even Saddam was shocked when he saw how openly we as Americans criticize our President. He was under the belief, that our government suppressed dissent (especially unflattering satire) like he did. Frankly, the Internet is probably the best, low-cost method to promote open communication. Take a look at countries like Brazil or India. They're IT is run on Linux (except the most high-end). They still use many low-end PCs. OSS fanaticism aside; I think in this case OSS can be quite useful. Isn't the free flow of information what true hacking is about?

        On a slightly (perhaps greatly) off-topic, but related note:

        I know we complain about "fascism" in this country. That's a joke. The Iraqis have quite a few problems ahead. They're fighting real fascism. They don't have Thomas Jefferson or George Washington. They don't have a slow progression and long history of open dissent. What they do have is a sudden vacuum of power, arguing radical religious factions, and a severe lack of resources.

        Drugs, sex, and Iraq [smh.com.au]
        Why Iraq's neighbors want to see democracy fail [msn.com]
        The rise of crime and vigilates [signonsandiego.com]

        Unfortunately, I can't hunt down the specific article I wanted to link to. It discussed the sudden increase of crime [especially prostitution] (see articles above) in Iraq. It also discussed the rise of a radical Islamic movement looking to cleanse Iraqi society. They argue these vices/sins have been "unleashed"/"unchecked" by the Americans. I hate to say it, but this whole war is FAR from over.

      • The infrastructure in Iraq is a HELL of a lot better now than it ever was under Saddam. I'm not going to quote articles about this b/c I don't give a damn about improving my excellent karma :), but I know there are some stories out there about army engineers bringing running water and electricity to villages in Iraq that *never* had them under Saddam. As far as food goes, if you think that more people are starving now than under Saddam, you're a fool.

        Electricity was restored to most of the areas it was kno

        • Re:As much as I would like to see... (Score:4, Informative)

          by say ( 191220 ) <<on.hadiarflow> <ta> <evgis>> on Thursday December 18, 2003 @08:51AM (#7753028) Homepage
          I'm amazed how much you know about this. I won't claim that I know, but judging by the interviews and reporters I've seen from Iraq, many say they are far worse off at this moment. For instance, all prisoners were let out of jail when Saddam fell. A political and unfair law system may work better than no law at all... I've also seen a few interviews with people who say they used to have electricity, petrol, water and heating, but haven't got it anymore. I guess some people are better off, and some are not. Judging by the (quite extensive) coverage from Norwegian TV and radio, I believe most people are temporarily worse off. But then again, Norwegian media are probably communist.
          • I'm amazed how much you know about this.

            I'm not sure if this was sarcastic or not, but I'll answer anyway.

            The reason I know so much about this, and the true situation in Iraq, is because I do not get my news from the mainstream media. I certainly read a lot of articles in the mainstream press, but I doubt them, because of how wrong they often are (one example: CNN did not report all of the murders they knew about in Iraq, just so that Saddam would allow them to continue reporting inside Iraq. The truth

    • Multitasking (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Infonaut ( 96956 ) <infonaut@gmail.com> on Wednesday December 17, 2003 @10:33PM (#7750427) Homepage Journal
      Is it impossible for Iraqis to do more than one thing at once?

      I'm just guessing here, but I doubt that trying to bring Open Source tools into a developing technology infrastructure would sap the effort to create a stable government.

    • Linux has a stable kernel, that counts for something right?
    • *nod*

      Right now, they mean it literally when they say "somone set us up the bomb."

    • as long as terrorists keep the iraqi people in the dark, they'll be able to brainwish them. allow these people internet access and risk losing the ability to get them to blow themselves up for your own purposes. i don't see it happening. terrorists have nothing to gain and everything to lose by allowing people access to the truth. poolmousenyc
    • ... what Iraq needs before anything else at the moment is a stable government.

      Well, one way not to get stability is to turn over the computing infrastructure to another big American corporation that made big contributions to Bush's election campaign. It doesn't take a deep understanding of politics to realize where that approach leads.

      Guess which big computer corporation was a big contributor ...

      • Re:As much as I would like to see... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by GreyWolf3000 ( 468618 ) on Wednesday December 17, 2003 @11:04PM (#7750614) Journal
        Well, one way not to get stability is to turn over the computing infrastructure to another big American corporation that made big contributions to Bush's election campaign. It doesn't take a deep understanding of politics to realize where that approach leads.

        I'm gonna call you on that. I don't believe MS is a huge contributor of the Bush campaign, and I don't believe that by using Microsoft software, Iraq forfeits their chance at a stable government.

        This seems to be more corporate-demonizing hogwash that gets modded up here at /. Honestly, even if MS did make unusually large contributions to the Bush campaign, I fail (in my shallow understanding of politics) to see how that translates to an unstable government in Iraq. Please enlighten me.

        • Re:As much as I would like to see... (Score:5, Insightful)

          by frdmfghtr ( 603968 ) on Wednesday December 17, 2003 @11:29PM (#7750744)
          This seems to be more corporate-demonizing hogwash that gets modded up here at /. Honestly, even if MS did make unusually large contributions to the Bush campaign, I fail (in my shallow understanding of politics) to see how that translates to an unstable government in Iraq. Please enlighten me.

          Directly, you are correct--it does not translate to an unstable government. Indirectly, it could give Microsoft an edge on the building of the technology/information infrastructure. It would be yet another big American corporation sinking its meathooks into the money pot that is being used to rebuild Iraq, leaving the Iraqi brain pool out of the picture.

          Consider this example. American firms estimated that it would take many months and millions of dollars to rebuild Iraqi cement factories, which are crucial to the rebuilding effort. Intrepid Iraqis did it in a few months for less than $100k. How? They didn't set lofty goals for state-of-the-art equipment and facilities. They cannibalized parts from remaining production lines to get at at least one production facility operating. This facility can, in turn, generate revenue through the sale of cement for use in the reconstruction (as opposed to expensive imports) and put that revenue into the factory and workers' salaries.

          Likewise, why should we as taxpayers spend millions of dollars to import the labor and material into Iraq when there exists local talent to do the same job? If they're not as skilled, fine. TRAIN them to do the job, don't do it for them. Teach a man to fish and all that...

          In short--use local resources (material and talent) to do the work as much as possible, and bring in outside talent and material only if needed. Iraq is NOT a feeding frenzy for big corporations looking to get a big government check (even if it looks like it is turning into that); the money should be a resource to help the Iraqi people rebuild their own country.

          As a taxpayer, I'd much prefer to see my tax dollars spent to help the IRAQIS rebuild Iraq, not Halliburton, Microsoft, etc. as nauseum.
          • Likewise, why should we as taxpayers spend millions of dollars to import the labor and material into Iraq when there exists local talent to do the same job? If they're not as skilled, fine. TRAIN them to do the job, don't do it for them. Teach a man to fish and all that...

            I agree. But: remember that we put Halliburton Oil in charge of fueling our vehicles over there. Haliburton imported their own men, licensed their own contractors, and it ended up costing us $2.65 per gallon, while the locals (from Kuw

  • would (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    be nice to see linux there but m$ will probably make some big ass sponsoring deal...
    ---------
    Beers and Boobies in a Game? [funpic.org]

    • Re:would (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Capsaicin ( 412918 )

      "be nice to see linux there but m$ will probably ..."

      You can bank on m$ getting what it wants for Iraq. They didn't go in to Iraq to let some pinko Finnish free software take that market that rightfully belongs to a friendly megacorp.

  • Nerd friendly TLD.... (Score:5, Funny)

    by i_want_you_to_throw_ ( 559379 ) * on Wednesday December 17, 2003 @10:23PM (#7750344) Journal
    It's .iq
    Impress your friends with http://high.iq

    Seriously though, it's a great article and Iraq is SO perfect right now to be the open course society from the get-go.

    Adam did a great job writing this.

  • wait, you want to *not* sell them something? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 17, 2003 @10:24PM (#7750348)

    Ya, we'll give them something for free instead of taking there money/oil for something we tell them they must have. Sure, that will happen.
    -Anonymous American.
    • Exactly. Were you not paying attention? The whole point of invading Iraq was to give contracts for it's rebuilding to American companies.

      Do you see a German cellphone provider? Hmmm?
      How about a French railway system going in?

      Exactly. The yoosay and their allies invaded Iraq, the yoosay claims the prize. And as for giving it away? Pah! Hippies!

      Dave

  • open source versus capitalism (Score:4, Insightful)

    by h4x0r-3l337 ( 219532 ) on Wednesday December 17, 2003 @10:24PM (#7750349)
    Given that the US is already excluding foreign nations from lucrative rebuilding contracts in Iraq, I would expect the Bush Administration to frown upon this possible move to open source, and start pushing Microsoft and friends instead.
    • Especially considering the relationship between Microsoft and the NSA.

      (Remember the "revealing our source code would threaten National Security" line?)

      I would be very surprised if Microsoft lose this one.

    • Re:open source versus capitalism (Score:4, Funny)

      by monadicIO ( 602882 ) on Wednesday December 17, 2003 @10:28PM (#7750380)
      What Microsoft? I only know BechtelOS and HalliburtonOS.
    • Given that the US is already excluding foreign nations who did not support the US led war from lucrative rebuilding contracts in Iraq

      Granted I think it's a stupid policy move too, but those nations sound a little hypocritical now. We don't want you to go to war, and we'll blast you for it, but it's not fair that we can't profit from it.

      Additionally, it's not the Bush Administration who would push M$, but rather the gigantic corporations that they will be giving the contracts to.

      The whole thing is rotte
      • I would it would be hyprocritical but for the fact those same nations (mainly France, Germany, Russia) are at the same time being asked by the US to forgive and restructure iraqs debt that runs at an estimated $120 billion. You have to hand it to the Bush administration it really know how to make a bad situation worse.

        • Re:open source versus capitalism (Score:4, Funny)

          by pheared ( 446683 ) <kevin@p[ ]red.net ['hea' in gap]> on Wednesday December 17, 2003 @10:40PM (#7750467) Homepage
          You have to hand it to the Bush administration it really know how to make a bad situation worse.

          If by that you mean: Knows how to make itself look really stupid and get the entire world to begin stereotyping all americans as warmongering monkeys, then yes, I am in agreement.
        • You mean the same France and Germany who to this day have never repayed the Marshall Plan loans?

          Yeah, fuck 'em.

    • Given that those lucrative rebuilding contracts are funded by the U.S., they can restrict who gets to bid all they like.

      It's U.S. taxpayer money, and as such, why the fuck shouldn't the U.S. get to choose to receives it?

      You think if France (or Germany or ANY OTHER COUNTRY ON EARTH) dumped $18.6BN into rebuilding a country they would just open it up to foreigners for the taking?

      Jackass.
      • That may be so, but it is still no excuse to force a new country to use MS, when they can get it done for free with OSS. A waste of American tax payer money, with the only "benefits" being that MS gets some big upfront cash, and it locks Iraq into an expensive and proprietary solution once(if?) they are fully independant. If you like punishing France, go ahead, but giving MS a handout has nothing to do with punishing France.
        • The original poster wasn't specifying the Open Source issue, so neither did my response.

          I'm not a fan of Microsoft, either.

          I run Linux AND I don't hate America - that is surely a paradox of some sort. I'm waiting to disappear in a puff of irony.

    • Given that the US is already excluding foreign nations from lucrative rebuilding contracts in Iraq

      Um, no they aren't. They are excluding nations that obstructed any action in Iraq, but the more than 60 countries in the coalition are more than welcome to bid on the contracts.

      If France and Germany had had their way, there wouldn't be ANY contracts to award in Iraq, so I don't know why they think they are entitled to some now.

    • Misleading... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Tailhook ( 98486 ) on Wednesday December 17, 2003 @10:40PM (#7750466)
      It doesn't help your cause to attempt to mislead people. Your statement...

      ...excluding foreign nations...

      ...is a lie by omission. The US is excluding specific foreign nations for specific reasons, which is very different from your implication. Also, the exclusion applies to only part of the total available funds.
    • Whose money is going to pay for the Microsoft Licenses? Implement a free option and already you have saved a lot of money by not buying into an O/S that is frequently targeted by crackers. I think that assuming Bush will automatically go for the big business option is very cynical. Especially when it would probably put them over budget.. although.. I'm Canadian so what do I know about american politics.. =)
      • It's not about the best option.

        You know little about computers but you've been landed the job giving out contracts.

        note: your job is not to build a decent IT infrastructure, it's to hand out a contract to get someone else to build it.

        There's that nice guy from a Microsoft based systems integrator.

        You met him at a party at the embassy last month, you've played a round of golf with him.

        he's invited you out to lunch somewhere nice today to discuss what his great big corporation, who your bosses also feel

    • Leave capitalism out of this! (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Cajun Hell ( 725246 ) on Wednesday December 17, 2003 @11:24PM (#7750724) Homepage Journal
      Your post would make a lot more sense if you had left "capitalism" out of it, because capitalism is not the enemy nor does it conflict with Open Source or Free Software in any way.

      The conflict is value (possibly implemented using open source) vs corruption (probably implemented by lock-in, a.k.a. The Microsoft Legacy).

      THe only question is: who donated more money to the Bush campaign in 2000, and will likely donate more in 2004: Microsoft or their competitors? That's how you predict who will win.

    • Re:open source versus capitalism (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Guppy06 ( 410832 ) on Thursday December 18, 2003 @12:32AM (#7751155)
      "Given that the US is already excluding foreign nations from lucrative rebuilding contracts in Iraq,"

      Ah, the hazards of only getting your news from Slashdot. The DoD more or less backpedalled on that mere hours after that announcement (by putting the bidding on hold for "further review"), and there's been enough of a reverse on that policy that France and Germany are forgiving huge chunks of the Iraqi debt. Most of the media (including the ones who would be the last to believe the administration could be this shrewd or subtle) now seem to believe that the whole thing was a staged event to give James Baker a carrot to offer to the Paris Club, getting a promise to reduce Iraq's debt by giving them back something they never really lost to begin with.

      You really should get out of the house every once in a while.

  • Fresh Hard Disk (Score:5, Funny)

    by Veovis ( 612685 ) * <cyrellia@gmail.com> on Wednesday December 17, 2003 @10:25PM (#7750352) Homepage
    'Iraq is now a blank, unformatted hard disk and can be loaded with anything.

    Spyware Cookies, Banners, Popups, and Porn, oh wait thats the United States

  • Potential! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by man_ls ( 248470 ) on Wednesday December 17, 2003 @10:25PM (#7750361)
    Perhaps a Linux vendor will spot free licenses and support and consultants, if the Iraqui provisional government agrees to purchase hardware from them.

    Or, free on-site setup or something, if they agree to buy a support package.

    Or, free everything, and then they'd get a lucrative governemnt contract.

    • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday December 17, 2003 @10:38PM (#7750451)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • Israel just picked up linux for language support reasons... does Windows/Office support Arabic well? If not, I'm assuming Linux would, and therefore would have a leg to stand on at least.

        I'm a native arabic speaker and avid Linux user. Linux's support for Arabic is dismal at best. Besides only a small amount of translations having been done, the Arabic character set is poorly supported (at least as of redhat 8).

        The problem stems from the fact that Arabic, as a written language, is written in a flow

  • Bidding (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Christoff84 ( 707146 ) on Wednesday December 17, 2003 @10:26PM (#7750362) Journal

    This mainly depends on which company wins the contract to re-build their IT/Communications systems. If a pro-microsoft company wins, then Iraq will be locked into proprietary software.

  • You can help Ashraf and Hasanen. It can be as simple as emailing a few URLs or offering to provide tech support or help in developing their website. Or you can mail them books, periodicals, and CDs. Or you can send them money, so they can fulfill their ambition to create Iraq's first Linux Center to demonstrate and train. The above statement says it all.

  • File System Format. (Score:3, Funny)

    by saden1 ( 581102 ) on Wednesday December 17, 2003 @10:27PM (#7750376)
    Lets just hope that whoever is formating the hard disk doesn't doesn't format it using FAT file system.

  • Iraq's OSS needs... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Eberlin ( 570874 ) on Wednesday December 17, 2003 @10:28PM (#7750383) Homepage
    can wait a bit longer. The kind of stability they need right now isn't in a computer operating system, it's in a governing system. They also need stability in what we consider basic utilities -- electricity, running water, etc. It also helps not to have to worry about car bombs, suicide bombers, and other daily attacks.

    If you look through Maslow's heirarchy of needs, a good, cheap, stable, tweakable operating system doesn't make it in the radar quite yet.

    • But... (Score:2)

      by El ( 94934 )
      If all the suicide bombers were busy downloading porn from the internet, wouldn't there be fewer bombings? Think of the children!
    • Actually in my chats with people at the Baghdad Internet Cafe, a lot of people go there to get work-related email. Indeed, internet email is important in business there now, especially when other means of communications become less reliable. The cafe has a generator...

      Keep in mind that in the 70's, Iraq was a very prosperous & developed nation. It is not quite in the same situation as many African countries that have never become a developed nation or had some kind of real economy.
  • Unless Haliburton has recently gone into the software buisness, Microsoft will get any "reconstruction contract" involving computer infrastructures.

    Then, guess who'll be in charge of "educating" the Iraqis in computer use?

    I'm sure Bill's charity will donate a bunch of intel machines and "Trustworthy" OSs...

  • Sign of the times (Score:5, Funny)

    by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Wednesday December 17, 2003 @10:29PM (#7750389) Homepage Journal

    'Iraq is now a blank, unformatted hard disk and can be loaded with anything.

    We used to just say, "we're going to turn your country into a parking lot." Now what is it, we're going to load a diagnostic and low level format your ass?

  • Time to help (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 17, 2003 @10:29PM (#7750391)
    Whichever side of the political divide we stand on over Iraq, I don't think anyone could disagree now that if we can help here then it will do good for them.

    We don't have to wait for a stable government, we can work on multiple fronts at the same time.

    At least with Open Source we're not asking for anything and we're not just blindly giving, we're sharing. They have an equal right to be able to contribute to open source.

    For those in the US, please also lobby your government to remove the restrictions that stop you sending Linux (and presumably *BSD) to Iraq whilst allowing MS, etc, to sell proprietory systems.

    Chris down under
  • Bill Gate$ has likely already made a $1 million dollar contribution to some republican PAC somewhere to make sure that Microsoft is all they get in Iraq. The distributor probably will be Hallburton!

  • Proof of how simplistic most /.'ers are (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ShatteredDream ( 636520 ) on Wednesday December 17, 2003 @10:31PM (#7750410) Homepage
    Iraq doesn't have a stable government, economy or military and it is caught between Islamist/Islamofascist guerrillas and an international occupation force. Iraq needs political and economic stability more than anything else. We need to educate them on the benefits of non-violent and non-coercive political debate and discourse, not open source software. We need to educate them how to become a modern industrial country with an economy that isn't dependent on one industry. We need to train an army that is loyal to the country's constitution, not leaders.
    • Can't a country do more than one thing at a time though? They need a *lot* of things. An internet infrastructure will be one of those. It's become a major part of doing business these days.

      During the U.S. war for independence, the U.S. government fell into disarray as well (it didn't spring up over-night with all it's power and laws you know). And yet people still pursued other things during this 10-20 years. These two guys are doing what they *can* at this point.
    • We need to educate them on the benefits of non-violent and non-coercive political debate and discourse, not open source software.

      What do you think Open Source software is?

      Think about it.

  • I wish. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by kid zeus ( 563146 ) on Wednesday December 17, 2003 @10:31PM (#7750411)
    Anyone else remember that Hillary Rosen, late of RIAA fame, has been helping draft Iraq's new Copyright law, despite the fact that there's been a very servicable one since 1971?

    Check it out here. [theregister.co.uk]

    If Halliburton can get away charging treble the market rate for delivering oil, I seriously doubt there won't be any corporate skullduggery involved in the framing of government contracts for something like computing.

  • Fat chance (Score:5, Insightful)

    by JoeShmoe ( 90109 ) <askjoeshmoe@hotmail.com> on Wednesday December 17, 2003 @10:33PM (#7750423)
    Wasn't ex-RIAA head Hillary Rosen consulting with the Iraqi Governing Council on how to write the copyright section of the Iraqi constitution?

    Why not just write a mandate for Trusted Computing to guarantee the security of any imported US content and guarantee a RIAA-type organization can end up in control of whatever Iraqi culture blooms?

    Iraq presents an opportunity for a democracy to form that gains all the advantages of hindsight. It would be the chance to correct all of the mistakes that were made with Amercian democracy (such as ignorance of money's impact on all three branches or the constant war of state vs federal rights). Unfortunately, now that corporate American wields such control, it seems highly unlikely that any new "democracy" we spawn would follow noble, altruistic ideals but instead follow capitalist whatever-makes-trade-for-US-companies ideals.

    Futher proof that there is no room for democratic ideals in Iraqi is that the Shiite majority would easily control any democratic system that was implemented, something that I'm sure the US will not tolerate.

    - JoeShmoe
    .

  • Chat with Iraq (Score:4, Informative)

    by TheSync ( 5291 ) on Wednesday December 17, 2003 @10:38PM (#7750452) Journal
    On Saturday, I had an Internet chat with Iraq [thesync.com], between a coffeehouse just outside of Washington, DC, and the Baghdad Internet Cafe.

    One of their questions went like this:

    baghdadic: LATEEF ASKS U HOW MUCH THE LATIST MODEL OF COMPUTER IN US ?
    techartvideo: U can get good computer for 350 dollars, very good for 3000 dollars.
    baghdadic: IT IS EXPENSIVE
    techartvideo: How much for a computer in Baghdad?
    baghdadic: 200 USD FOR P4 ( ASIAN ORIGIN ) TO 1300USD FOR LAP TOP

    Which goes to show that the world is pretty much the same everywhere, especially for geeks!

  • Uh-oh, I think you're skipping a step or two (Score:4, Insightful)

    by iamdrscience ( 541136 ) on Wednesday December 17, 2003 @10:38PM (#7750454) Homepage
    It's supposed to go like this:

    1. Get everybody food and water
    2. Get everybody feeling reasonably secure in their safety.
    3. Setup a stable, fair and working government.
    4. Decide whether Iraqi cellphones will use GSM or CDMA
    5. Decide which operating system to use.

    I think we're stuck around #2 or #3, but these people are already jumping up to 5 (and other people to 4).

  • US needs to allow Munition like Linux to be export (Score:5, Interesting)

    by bstadil ( 7110 ) on Wednesday December 17, 2003 @10:38PM (#7750455) Homepage
    Believe it or not, but Linux can not Legally be exported from the US to Iraq.

    Read the Letter Silicon Valley Linux USer Group [linuxjournal.com]put together to the DOD.

    Unbelievable, but apparently true


  • Patent #333456223: Method for building and/or rebuilding newly-created vassal state's electronic infrastructure using software created in collaboration over the Internet

  • nice idea, bad timing (Score:4, Insightful)

    by martin-boundary ( 547041 ) on Wednesday December 17, 2003 @10:48PM (#7750512)
    This all sounds nice and all, but given that Halliburton is selling oil in Iraq for $1.59 per gallon, excluding extra company fees, when they could be doing it locally for about 15 cents per gallon, I somehow doubt that the Iraq is going to be rebuilt on open source. Microsoft's rock bottom software prices are way more capitalist friendly, if you know what I mean.

  • Huh? (Score:3, Funny)

    by djupedal ( 584558 ) on Wednesday December 17, 2003 @10:51PM (#7750536)
    'Iraq is now a blank, unformatted hard disk and can be loaded with anything.'

    Why bother? Nevada has the same attributes, and it's much closer to home.

    Top ten things to load into a blank country:
    • Nuclear waste
    • Motorhomes
    • Republicans
    • Washed out female pop stars
    • Congress
    • The Patriot Act
    • DRM
    • AOL Cds
    • Singing Billy Bass'es
    • Free range turkeys

  • An unformatted drive ? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by cinnamon colbert ( 732724 ) on Wednesday December 17, 2003 @11:12PM (#7750662) Journal
    First of all, Iraq is, or at least was until years of US/UN sanctions crippled the economy, a fairly sophisticated country. I am sure there are many intellegint, well educated Iraqi geeks and computer scientists and power users who are quite capable of deciding for them selves what Iraq needs. Second, there is this HUGE gulf between what we think and what appears to be thought, based on news accounts, in the Arab world. The clearest example is the widespread anger at the fall of Hussein as a humiliation, a view that I would wager is alien to most americans. People in the Mideast are just as smart as we are, and they are fully entitled to their opinions; if we don't like them, acting like a big bully, and telling people to shutup and do as we think is not going to help. I think there is a tinge of this in the post, we know best and you (children) will do what we want (unspoken or else)...

  • It's the Philosophy that's Important (Score:3, Interesting)

    by femto ( 459605 ) on Wednesday December 17, 2003 @11:13PM (#7750669) Homepage
    There are plenty of comments along the lines "Iraq needs stability and government, not an operating system." True, but "Open Source" doesn't have to be just computer software.

    Perhaps it is controversial, but I like to think of 'open source' in terms of a wider picture, as an aversion to secrecy. Not keeping computer source code is just one aspect of this wider 'open source'.

    What could an 'open source' philosophy yield for Iraq? It could lead to transparency in government, reducing corruption and increasing stability. It could buy water and electricity, as shortcomings with utilities will not be hidden and the Iraqui people will demand that something be done about it. It could lead to greater trust in the government, eroding support for terrorism. Closer to the computer field, open source could provide grass roots communication for the country, allowing those without bias and vested interest (eg children) to communicate, cooperate, build understanding and reduce tribal tensions. This is what 'open source' could provide for Iraq.

  • A little help? (Score:5, Funny)

    by violet16 ( 700870 ) on Wednesday December 17, 2003 @11:14PM (#7750676)
    [bush@iraq /usr/local] rpm -ivh opensourcesoftware-0.1.i386.rpm
    error: Failed dependencies:
    personalcomputers.so.4.1.2 is needed by opensourcesoftware-0.1
    electricity.so.0.9.6 is needed by opensourcesoftware-0.1
    domesticlawandorder.so.1.0 is needed by opensourcesoftware-0.1
    [bush@iraq /usr/local] rpm -ivh democracy-1.0.i386.rpm
    Segmentation fault: population not formatted for democracy-1.0

  • Halliburton Linux 1.0 (Score:5, Informative)

    by trouser ( 149900 ) on Wednesday December 17, 2003 @11:24PM (#7750723) Journal
    The reconstruction of Iraq has largely been contracted out to anybody who cared to bid as long as they were American and Halliburton. Where does open source anything fit into that picture?

  • Computers play integral role (Score:3, Insightful)

    by failedlogic ( 627314 ) on Wednesday December 17, 2003 @11:30PM (#7750753)
    Computers will be instrumental in the rebuilding of Iraq.

    At *some* point the 'new' Iraqi governemnt will need to build infrastructure. On an immediate basis this would include electrical, water, and communications factilities. Most of these systems are in desparate need of repair and upgrades.

    Whatever problems will happen with the government. there is no denying that such upgrades are needed. Computers are needed to run these systems (wheter Linux or Windows boxes run the actual systems is debatable) but employees will most likely need computers for day-to-day tasks. If they were to use say OpenOffice on the computers then as the gov't rebuilds it would make 'sense' to use the same software.

  • Just few points I think are worth mentioning (Score:5, Interesting)

    by nabil_IQ ( 733734 ) on Wednesday December 17, 2003 @11:53PM (#7750867) Homepage
    There are few points I felt I need to reply to. yesm right now we (Iraqis) have no sovern country, yes we don't have enough electrcity, yes drinking water is hardly good enough for drinking and yes Computer and IT is just about the last on our list of necessities for survival. BUT, as Iraqis, teh ppl. who actully built teh first civilization, and got that wiped out and rebuilt more time than I have time to count in here, and as Iraqis, who were the first to come up with writing, and the first to write a law to govern the aspects of everyday life some 10,000 years ago. I think we are capable of rebuilding, and placing our country back at the level it rightfully deserves. As some guys mentioned above, we may not have enough electrecity, nor a sovern government. but we sure do have brain power. And since I'm speaking to a techincal crowd here, I assume most of you are familiar with "Multi-tasking", while we have ppl. who are capable of rebuilding a government system, law institutes and have the help to rebuild power station and other facilities, we, the "geeks" can at least start to raise our voices in parallel. Raise awarness of what Linux is, and what FLOSS is and most importantly how to benefit from it. So the argument that Iraq needs other stuff that are more important is kinda void, everyone should and must do what he/she can in his or her own field, and our field is Linux/OS. Anotehr point, people ahead of me talked about "Linux is free, the US won't benifit from it!" well, last time I checked, which is not too long ago, RedHat was a US company and the charge money for their solutions, minus Fedora. IBM, HP, Dell and other manfacturers make the hardware that Linux runs on it and it does cost money. I see the benefits for those companies just as good as the benefit of Microsoft and their technologies to the US. So that's another point that's void. Regarding Arabization, the majority of Iraqis are able to communicate in English as teh Iraqi education system teachs teh English language manditory starting at grade 5. University studies, specially for Engineering and Science are at least 85% English language. here is a report on why we have chosen English language on our Linux group web portal [iraqilinux.org] it explains how Arabic langauge, even though it's spoken by the majority of Iraqis, is not really a blocking factor in the way of English only technologies (Given that at least we have a browser that renders Arabic fonts and probably few mail and IM clients that does so too). So language also is not a factor. All in all, Iraq right now is *IS* a brand new harddrive, we have the brian power to run anything on it, and that anything better be Linux :P anyhoo, I hope I made my points, comments are welcomed. Nabil. (http://www.iraqilinux.org) p.s.: I'm an Iraqi Living in canada right now, left Iraq some 3 years ago, and kept close contact with Iraq, so my information is up2date)

  • Watch out for Apple (Score:5, Funny)

    by ville ( 29367 ) on Wednesday December 17, 2003 @11:54PM (#7750876)
    Watch out before Apple moves in undetected and it becomes iRaq.

    // ville

  • As much as I hate Micro$oft (Score:3, Interesting)

    by nomad63 ( 686331 ) on Thursday December 18, 2003 @01:03AM (#7751390)
    ....I hope that windows makes major inroads to the developing Iraq. If the country gets built upon O/S, there is no money to be made for the US. Whereas, micro$oft with their crappy OS will open a boatload of IT spending in Iraq as well as in any other country. Under the circumstances of IT job/spending shortage in the US, I would welcome any IT investment money flowing into the US, even though I would not touch a windows server with a 10 feet pole.

    I know not all the people reading /. is from the US and they could not care any about what I say, but in the same train of thought I really could not care about others where highly skilled people are going unemployed in my immediate vicinity.

    Am I selfish ? Heck yes ... if one says he/she is not selfish, is the biggest liar.

  • "A blank unformed hard disk" (Score:3, Interesting)

    by samantha ( 68231 ) * on Thursday December 18, 2003 @02:27AM (#7751801) Homepage
    You must be kidding. Iraq is the cradle of civilization. It has a long and rich history and many different and complex cultural/religious/ethnic/political strains going. It is not ripe for the uploading of whatever we might wish to see there. It is not ours to mold however we please. Most of all we should not assume that it is in large part pliable and able to be molded.

    As much as I would like to see OS spread far and wide comments like the above are VERY presumptious and ugly American.

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