Download Anaconda for Debian

hsoom writes "Debian Planet is reporting that unofficial sarge-based ISOs using the Anaconda installer can be downloaded from here. The features developed so far include '...changed the code that installs software to use APT instead of RPM, removed Red Hat-specific configuration hooks, and written a new tool called picax that builds Anaconda-based installation CDs from a Debian repository'. However there are features that are not yet working and it is not recommended for use in a production environment."

Single Package / Dep manager

[kbsingh]

Would be nice to see this expand into a single installer / package manager and (importantly!) a Dependency manager.

Maybe a hybrid of Anaconda + dselect would be nice, if rolled into 1. Add 'kickstart' kind of capablity to that and it would be a kickass app to have around.

Specially since most people dont tend to install Linux from installable mode very often( i havent in the last 3 years)

Re:Single Package / Dep manager

[byolinux]

I personally find dselect pretty quirky and awkward to use.

What we need is a tool with the power of dselect, but with an interface akin to something like yast on SuSE.

Re:Single Package / Dep manager

[Ed Avis]

But maybe what Debian should really be doing is copying from Knoppix. That has the easiest installation, i.e., no installation at all, and it's Debian-based. The conventional 'install it first and then run it' routine isn't nearly as easy or as much fun as 'run from CD and optionally install to your fixed disk later'. I'm surprised distros aren't making bigger moves towards a Knoppix-like installer, now it has been demonstrated that it can be done.

(Now Knoppix itself is i386-specific I think, but that's mostly hardware detection. On other architectures detection might be a bit less complex, I don't know.)

Does Anaconda support text

[armando_wall3]

I still prefer text based installations, so it will be great if Anaconda will be optional, so Debian will have the best of both worlds.

Does anybody know anything about it?

Re:This is good news.

[Anonymous Coward]

One of the main 'comments' I get when I recommend Debian GNU/Linux to people, is 'Debian is difficult to install' - a fair comment, and this will be a move in the right direction.

It's not that hard to install, but one of the major hurdles I found when using Woody's boot CDs, was the completely obsolete kernels you have a choice of using. Neither of them was from this year. I tried 2.4.18-bf24 but it didn't recognize any of the ethernet nics in my machine... an intel gigabit ethernet PCI card and two onboard interfaces (nforce2 nvidia network interface and a 3com interface). It was an Asus A7N8X-Deluxe board I was trying to install it on. I eventually gave up and put a realtek NIC in to do the network install. Pretty embarassing with the other guys just did a Mandrake install and their NIC was picked up without a problem.

The other problem with the outdated kernel is the Nforce2 IDE chipset doesn't work in DMA mode at all. I needed to compile 2.4.21 with AMD Viper support before I could get anything better than 4-5MB/sec. Now it's great at 50MB/sec.

Another problem I had seemed to be related to the APIC on this board. I would get constant lockups under heavy I/O. Unfortunately one of the heavy I/O periods was during the initial apt-get over the network, thus it would lock up every single time I tried to install. I eventually got it to just install the base image off the CD, replaced the kernel with the 2.4.21 I built on another machine, and after that it was fine (I compiled the kernel without any APIC support).

Anyway, to make a long story short, it's outdated support like this that'll never get Debian to be accepted by my coworkers, and I can't say I blame them. I love the stability and easy of maintenance once it's installed, but putting it on a newer machine is sure a pain in the ass. I'll be stuck with Red Hat (Enterprise Linux) from now on I guess for our servers since Debian provided such a poor showing on a workstation setup.

Good thing

[Anonymous Coward]

I think this is cool. I have been thinking of ditching Windows and was leaning towards a Debian "based" distro. Easier to install (for me) is a good thing.

Knoppix anyday...

[Dylancable]

Common guy's just because Debian has a nice GUI installer doe's that really make it any better distro then it currently was?, For people who think debian stable is outdated, Give Knoppix a try , uses unstable branch and comes with nice hardware detection. I had problems with Redhat 9.0 detecting inbuilt hardware on a compaq armarda m300 and knoppix had no problem...

Re:Debian Problems

[sydbarrett74]

Nope, I agree with you fully. I think for the most part that Mandrake and SuSE are probably the best distros out there.

Kickstart...

[Crossfire]

Hopefully this means we have Kickstart too.

Debian has been needing kickstart-like functionality for a while. (No, FAI is not the answer, it works in a somewhat different manner, and its a royal pain to set up to bootstrap unstable systems from a host running stable).

Re:Anaconda??? Is it too much to ask...

[vondo]

Why should I care what NIC or video card or sound card is in a machine?

We have 30 machines in our research group; there are probably 20 different configurations. Sure, I can find out if I want to, but why should I open each machine up to take inventory before upgrading the OS?

Re:This is good news.

[tacocat]

I don't think installing Linux is Elitist

It depends on the distribution you select and the requirements you have as a user.

You must first recognize that there is a trade-off between the two concepts of Simple to Use and Highly Configurable. I believe that the two are to a large extent, mutually exclusive of each other.

If you want Simple to Use then you can grab something like Knoppix or Libranet and have a Linux installation up and running in a few minutes without no idea what you actually did. However, you will not be able to customize the installation to include a mail server that can do something like:

• SMTP + SASL_Authentication over TLS
• Amavisd+spamassassin+clamav
• LDAP+Kerberos/SSH user authentication
• IMAP+SSL and IMAP-SSL(localhost) support

as an example.

If you want to do that, then you have a lot more work to do that a simple newbie and for that matter, most simple newbies don't know what the fuck I just said, unless the heard it in a trade magazine.

I can do all of this stuff using Debian with out much difficulty. Technically I can't even do what I posted in SuSE without going into custom builds on most everything. So even there, they (SuSE) has hit the barrier between Simple to Use and Highly Configurable

Arguably, Microsoft will probably come up with a configuration utility that does all of these things with the click of a button. But there will be at least two problems with their implimentation:

1. It won't work quite the way you would like it to, so you'll have to compromise.
2. Their security history has been less than stellar.

Other than that, Microsoft is probably the Leader of the Pack when it comes to Simple to Use. They do it very well and they have their millions of users out there with their installation of XP.

IMHO I think that the Computer User community is divided into approximately three camps:

Casual User

This is the guy who doesn't even know what a hard drive his, he thinks it's rush hour. He has no interest in learning about anything to do with computers but nonetheless is saddled with the requirement that he use email and web browsers as a part of whatever life he chooses to lead.

Super User or Interested User

These are the guys who ask questions about what their computer does, how does it work, can I do this? They will inevitably take up some kind of semi serious coding, even if it's HTML + Javascript. They might even get into C/C++, Perl, Python, dot-net. But they begin to approach the type of user who understands 99% of the questions asked when installing a linus distribution of circa 1995

God Mode User

These are the anointed dudes who can code you into a corner from their PDA. They can come up with shell tricks that hurt your brain and melt your eyeballs. These are the guys who really know their shit and consider installation of Linux-from-Scratch something of a Saturday Night Special

Assuming that my presentation of three types of users isn't completely out of line, then you have to recognize that GodMode Users and Casual Users will probably never be satisfied on the same system. At least not now.

It is entirely possible that these users can converge onto one distribution, but that remains to be seen. If I had to pick one today, I would say it's Debian. Because Knoppix, Libranet, and Lindows are all based on Debian, Debian is the best candidate we have today for meeting the needs of all three of these user-types.

And this is why Perens said we should all back Debian. Because right now, the foundation that is Debian is being used to satisfy the requirements of more types of users in the world than any other distribution out there, bar none. You can argue about exceptions, but the final score will be Debian.

Re:Single Package / Dep manager

[santos_douglas]

I understand how difficult it is for experienced linux users to see from the viewpoint of new users, so I thought I'd share my experience as just such a novice. I was totally new to linux, but as a capable Windows 2000 user I figured I could make it work. I downloaded the Debian ISOs to try out on my machine. I chose Debian since it seemed like THE distro out there. I was fairly surprised, it wasn't that bad (who's afraid of text based installs?) and I quickly had it installed and running with a KDE desktop. However it failed to configure some key hardware (sound, NIC, modem) which made moving further difficult. So I was extremely happy to learn about the official Debian w/Anaconda installer. Unfortunately it also coincided with the compromise of Debians machines so I never got a chance to try it out.

Finally some /.er recommended Mepis as a good Debian based distro, which I promtly installed and am quite happy with. The install went perfectly, and the default desktop may not be ideal to linux veterans out there, but its just fine for a linux newbie to start off on.

A few tips/things I've noticed:

-Right off the bat, where the heck is the volume control? Should be on the default desktop, not deep in the application menu as 'kmix'.
-With all due respect to Konqueror, Mozilla should be the default browser on the desktop.
-I don't know what's up with Kpackage, but I love apt-get.
-IM is pretty important to the masses, why not make a good multiprotocol client like Gaim the default?
-Mepis does a good job putting a GUI face on many of the system config stuff, but they are still spread over a number of menus. It would help if they were consolidated under one heading, similar to Windows control panel, although come to think of it everythings not under that either.

Overall though I'd say Anaconda is a big step forward for Linux on the average users desktop. With a few minor tweaks this could easily be recommended for the clueless windows user.

On my wish list

[ONU CS Geek]

If I really had to say I think we could do one thing better, it would be having a 'headless' install option for some of these devices.

There are times where I go and install software, and have to be in a different room or different area, that me physically being at the console for the entire installation is pratically impossible. It would be wonderful if there was an option to do a network install over https, or a network install over ssh, to get it up and working.

Just think how nice it would be to pop in a CD, sit back at your desk, go to an IP address, and volia, install your server without actually being there :)

Oh, well, just wishful thinking, unless anyone knows a good installer, wants to help write one, or knows of a free as in beer system to get something like that accomplished.

Ian

Re:Single Package / Dep manager

[sirReal.83.]

-Right off the bat, where the heck is the volume control? Should be on the default desktop, not deep in the application menu as 'kmix'.
I agree.

-With all due respect to Konqueror, Mozilla should be the default browser on the desktop.
Nah, I disagree. First off, Mozilla takes a long time to load. Firebird is great, but I think that keeping the consistent look of all KDE apps is a Good Thing (TM). Also, what specifically do you like about Mozilla that Konqueror doesn't have?

-I don't know what's up with Kpackage, but I love apt-get.
Yeah... KPackage is strange, though it does work very well for installing individual .debs that have been downloaded. Synaptic is cool, but it's a little slow because of how crazily complete it is. apt-get rules.

-IM is pretty important to the masses, why not make a good multiprotocol client like Gaim the default?
That's what Kopete [sourceforge.net] is for! I can't remember if it's included in KDE 3.1.4 which is what Mepis uses, because I installed orth's KDE CVS HEAD .deb's for sid [opendoorsoftware.com].

-Mepis does a good job putting a GUI face on many of the system config stuff, but they are still spread over a number of menus. It would help if they were consolidated under one heading, similar to Windows control panel, although come to think of it everythings not under that either.
Yeah, that does leave something do be desired... but I think it's more the job of the KDE folks than the Mepis folks to get that done. I'm sure that in the relatively near future (KDE 3.2, 3.3...) the Mepis config utilities will be obselete/assimilated into KDE. But already, the KDE Control Center is far more centralized than Windows Control Panel ever was; notice how you don't have to click through fifteen "property boxes" just to get to anything useful. Sadly, KControl doesn't do much hardware configuration at all. I'm sure that's coming, though.