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Mandriva Businesses Linux Business The Almighty Buck

Mandrake Linux 9.2, Adware Version 618

Posted by michael from the maybe-microsoft-will-advertise dept.
thedarb writes "Mandrake has decided to sell ads to be seen during installation, web browsing and in screen savers. This all comes in their upcoming 9.2 release. Seven G's and you could put your face in their installer." Update: 09/12 18:07 GMT by M : Mandrake has a page about the ads.
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Mandrake Linux 9.2, Adware Version More

Mandrake Linux 9.2, Adware Version

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  • Moral compass? (Score:5, Funny)

    by mao che minh ( 611166 ) * on Friday September 12, 2003 @10:42AM (#6942326) Journal
    The real question is: will Mandrake accept all advertisement requests? I hope not - I hope Mandrake excercies a certain degree of moral judgement in their decision making.

    I would hate to have to relive those all of those "You can enlarge your penis!!" moments, or once again be haunted by "Britney XXX HOT and young CAUGHT J-Lo action action!!".

    Now, that's not to say that I would be apprehensive towards "Jenna" advertisements. Those always bring a smile to my face.

  • WTF!! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Sp4c3 C4d3t ( 607082 ) on Friday September 12, 2003 @10:43AM (#6942334)
    One of the reasons I use Linux is to avoid ads and spyware. Now if I choose to use Mandrake, I can only avoid spyware... but for how long? I think I'll just stick to Slack, like I have for the past few years.

    • Re:WTF!! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by ultrabot ( 200914 ) on Friday September 12, 2003 @10:47AM (#6942378)
      One of the reasons I use Linux is to avoid ads and spyware.

      It doesn't take a rocket scientist to look elsewhere during installation.

    • Re:WTF!! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by aaribaud ( 585182 ) on Friday September 12, 2003 @10:50AM (#6942419)
      Ads will appear in three places:
      • - install: do you install every day?
      • - screensaver: install a non-mdk screensaver.
      • - browser: reconfigure browser.
      You don't even have to bother doing it yourself; just wait for someone to do it all and then rpm -ivh noads-1.0mdk.rpm. Unless it's a .deb, of course. :)

      • Re:WTF!! (Score:4, Interesting)

        by MoneyT ( 548795 ) on Friday September 12, 2003 @12:37PM (#6943624) Journal
        The doesn't mean people still can't bitch or wont bitch. After all, look at the people who bitch about the ads in AIM, all they have to do is go download DeadAIM or a similar product. Look at the people that bitch about pop-ups and pop-under ads, all they have to do is get a popup blocker.

        It's the priniciple of the matter that has people pissed.

    • Re:WTF!! (Score:4, Insightful)

      by kmonsen ( 606584 ) on Friday September 12, 2003 @10:50AM (#6942424) Homepage
      This is only in the download version. You could (GASP) try to pay for a version and get it ad free. I am quite sure you are exposed to ads in your life anyway, a few more during installation is not going to hurt that much.

    • Re:WTF!! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by perly-king-69 ( 580000 ) on Friday September 12, 2003 @10:54AM (#6942467)

      Really. How far does this 'avoiding ads' fetish affect your life?

      Do you close your eyes and put your fingers in your ears when watching the TV, in case any ads get you?

      Do you choose routes which avoid all billboards?

      MDK are in financial trouble, and need to raise funds. This seems to be a perfectly sensible way of doing it/

      • Re:WTF!! (Score:5, Interesting)

        by panda ( 10044 ) on Friday September 12, 2003 @11:51AM (#6943105) Homepage Journal
        I'm not the OP, and I agree with the mods that it is insightful to ask how far avoiding ads goes, because it seems we can't escape advertising these days. I'd just like to say that there is so much advertising today, do we really need more?

        Over the past decade, my TV watching has slowly dwindled, mostly because of advertising and "product placement".--It's sad when you notice that most of the ads are actually more entertaining than the shows.--First, I didn't renew my cable subscription in 1996, and then, about two years ago, I pretty much stopped watching TV all together. Of course, you can't avoid the TVs that seem to be stuck everywhere these days, like in shop windows, on the sides of buildings, and at the gym. The gym I go to has TVs everywhere and on some of the equipment, too. I don't need those TVs to distract me from my workout. Besides, I'd much rather stare at the blonde wearing the spandex outfit and doing lat pull downs.

        I haven't used Mandrake in the past because I never saw a compelling need to try it out when Debian, Red Hat, and Slackware have served my needs well. Someone gave me some Mandrake CDs once and at the time, I intended to try it, but never bothered to install it. Since they're adding adware, I may just skip them entirely in the future.

        I know you can just "look away" and reconfigure your browser, but we're already bombarded with advertising every time we turn around. I look at my monitor, and it has the maker's logo on it, there are 2 empty soda cans and a bottle on my desk with the maker's logo on it, ditto for the printer on my desk, the diet notebook on my desk, and nearly everything else in my office. You can hardly walk down the street (or go to the gym) without being accosted by logos on T-shirts, shoes, and people's asses. Why people pay to be a billboard for a company selling cheap, sweat shop-made goods at an outrageous markup is beyond me, but I guess being somebody else's bitch is a fashion statement these days. Sure, you give me a contract like Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan, and I'll get the swoosh tattooed on my forehead, but I'm not gonna pay money to wear a shirt with YOUR logo on it. The only logo shirts that I wear, I either got for free, or I bought to support a free software project or a non-profit cause.

        No, I have enough advertising in my life without TV, without AdWare, and without Mandrake. If it's all the same to you, I'll stick with FreeBSD.

      • Re:WTF!! (Score:3, Informative)

        by Malc ( 1751 )
        "Do you close your eyes and put your fingers in your ears when watching the TV, in case any ads get you?"

        I mute the TV, or change the channel (picture-in-picture is great), or get up and do something in another room. In reality though, I don't watch much TV these days as I've been completely put off be the advertising (and lack of quality). The only things I watched regularly are MI5 (en_GB: Spooks, IIRC), with my teeth gritted due to A&E's dreadful presentation style and the constant interruption b

    • Re:WTF!! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by alienw ( 585907 ) <alienw.slashdot@ ... inus threevowels> on Friday September 12, 2003 @10:54AM (#6942478)
      Come on. Advertising during the frigging install is one thing, spyware is a completely different thing. Don't group the two. I use Mandrake, I like it, I wouldn't mind if they got a few extra bucks. The install is pretty boring, so some ads there would not hurt at all. As for spyware and stuff like that: I know quite a few developers at Mandrake, and they would not tolerate that.

      As for Slack: that's a pretty barren distro as compared to Mandrake. Clearly, it does not take as much resources to develop it, since it doesn't have its own graphical installer, nice config tools, etc. They are two different products intended for different audiences.

    • Not about advertising revenue (Score:5, Interesting)

      by ShieldW0lf ( 601553 ) on Friday September 12, 2003 @11:06AM (#6942617) Journal
      I'd suspect that this is less about advertising revenue and more about keeping ppl who don't subscribe from downloading Mandrake from their servers.

      • Eh ?

        Mandrake only employ a few dozen people at most.

        At $15,000 per advert for the full monty (install, screensaver and bookmark), and a six-monthly release cycle, one advertiser is going to be paying $30,000 per annum (to reach millions of people in a very targetted field).

        $30,000 - $50,000 is about what it's going to cost to employ another full-time programmer in a developed country (anyone who says that's way too low should consider why their country is losing work to lower-cost countries).

        If Mandrake

    • Re:WTF!! (Score:3, Funny)

      by nocomment ( 239368 )
      Regular screen savers will be replaced by advertising in the download version of Mandrake Linux.

      I bet you posted that using the download version of Opera didn't you? ;-)
      *sigh*
      Some people really should actually read the articles before posting, but then, it just wouldn't be /. would it?

  • This is do-able... (Score:5, Funny)

    by grub ( 11606 ) <slashdot@grub.net> on Friday September 12, 2003 @10:43AM (#6942335) Homepage Journal

    "Seven G's and you could put your face in their installer."

    Collectively I'm sure we could scrape together $7K to have the goatse.cx guy in all his glory on this..

  • Interesting (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Archangel Michael ( 180766 ) on Friday September 12, 2003 @10:44AM (#6942350) Journal
    However, I can see the many of Slashdot crowd crying over this intrusion of commercialism, but this seems like a reasonable way to try and recoup the costs of developing and distributing Linux products.

    This keeps Linux "Free as in Beer" and "Free as in speech" at the same time. And what is wrong with that?
    • "try and recoup the costs of developing and distributing Linux products."

      They were already recouping them by charging for boxed versions in stores. If they want to put ads in then fine
      but I see no reason why they should charge for boxed versions anymore if they do that. They can't have it both ways.

      • Re:Interesting (Score:5, Informative)

        by Jellybob ( 597204 ) on Friday September 12, 2003 @10:53AM (#6942462) Journal
        The advertising is only applied to the free download version - if you buy it in the shops, you don't get advertising.
      • While I feel this is the wrong move, why can't they have it both ways?

        Dell/HP/Everyoneelseitseems sells you a PC that includes preloaded "sales" material such as AOL/MSN.

        Will it cut back on their "boxed" sales? Prob so, but thats their call

    • Re:Interesting (Score:3, Insightful)

      by The Old Burke ( 679901 )
      And its kind of wrong to name this as "adware".
      Adware has traditionally beeen used to describe intrusive and forced advertising that you did not ask for and did not want. Typically bundled with crappy P2P software, dialers, spyware and other malware.

      The term "advertising" is better suited for describing this Mandrake distro commercials.

    • Re:Interesting (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Frymaster ( 171343 ) on Friday September 12, 2003 @10:56AM (#6942498) Homepage Journal
      This keeps Linux "Free as in Beer" and "Free as in speech" at the same time

      basically, there are only two revenue models in this world:

      1. sell your product or service to end users
      2. sell access to your end users to advertisers

      all of the linux distros have been trying 1 for a while: charge for box sets, charge for enterprise support, charge for the added update stuff. a good plan, but redhat pretty much owns the enterprise market. and that's where the money is. so it was really only a matter of time until someone came along with model 2.

      you should all remember that the reason for this switch is that plan 1 hasn't been working for mandrake. transaltion: you haven't been buynig box sets and tee shirts.

      • Re:Interesting (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Rinikusu ( 28164 ) on Friday September 12, 2003 @11:50AM (#6943089)
        Maybe the reason people aren't buying boxed sets and TShirts is because there's not marketing/advertising. Seriously, how often have you seen a Debian or Mandrake ad anywhere? Sure, there are Mandrake T-Shirts (I think) and various other distro T-Shirts around, but the key is variety and to overhaul your line-up regularly.

        Let's compare with the Independent music industry, shall we?
        It's a well known fact that many people who like bands and see bands live tend to wear band-related T-Shirts. Through sales of T-Shirts (and CD's, incidentally), a lot of these bands can afford to tour the country without having to resort to sleeping on lice-infested punk houses. But, what convinces people to buy T-Shirts from the Band rather than from, say Hot Topic?
        1) Price. You can usually get the TShirt at the show for $10-12, usually no tax (cash transaction). The mall will cost you $15-20.
        2) Knowledge that the band will get most of the proceeds drives many of us to buy at the shows.
        3) UNIQUENESS. If the band is selling the same TShirt you can buy at the store, then you won't get nearly as many sales as if you come out with "unique" Tour T-Shirts. Conventions (sci-fi and otherwise) have caught on to this, as well. By buying the "unique" T-Shirt, you now have "bragging" rights. When people say "Did you go see Hatebreed last year" you can point to your T-Shirt and say "You bet your ass I did." It's kinda a reminder of the experience, you know? After all, music sometimes isn't just about the music, live music is also about the experience. A $10 T-Shirt can go a long ways towards bringing back fond memories.

        Now, how does this help with distros?
        One thing I see is that Linux people like to give shit away. Sure, free shit is fun and bands give free shit away, too. Stickers, buttons, etc. But, generally, the free shit entices you to buy something later, be it a CD, T-Shirt, or other buttons and stickers. If you go out to live shows enough, you'll find "merch" tables where bands ply their wares. I think the computer world, they're called "Schwag" tables, and the stuff is generally free.
        Linux distros (whether it be a company or a gang of guys doing it in their spare time) who represent themselves at trade-shows, conventions, meetings, or whatever, should be conscious of this. When you setup your table, make sure you have something for the person to take home with them. Have some stickers (make them unique!), TShirts, or whatever. Just because Linux is free doesn't mean your TShirts have to be, but be reasonable. You're cutting out the middlemen, so price accordingly. Have some "official" CD's for sale, stickers for a couple bucks, whatever. The idea is to come up with new designs and get your customers caught up in the "Do you have that cool Debian sticker in blue vinyl with a picture of Daryl McBride getting assfucked by Ron Jeremy?" cycle (take a look at Pokemon and Magic: TG). Sure, they're just trinkets, but they serve to help build a community (nothing warms my heart more than to see a big Debian sticker on the back of a car), gets advertising out there (and every "sale" to linux is a win for the entire linux community, regardless of the distro), and is a great way for developers to meet and greet their users at shows. See Apple when it comes to building fanatical fan-bases, it really works (TM).

        I'm sure there's a lot of guys who already do this. I don't know because I've never been to any sort of Linux-Con, so please forgive me if I'm treading familiar ground for some of you. But, if you currently don't do this for your distribution or project, maybe it's time to take a step back and examine what you can do to get more support, users, or even money. :)

        • Re:Interesting (Score:3, Insightful)

          by Rinikusu ( 28164 )
          Dammit, I missed some points..

          The idea about TShirts with Linux continued:
          Don't just give people the same TShirt they can buy at Thinkgeek or that comes with your distro. I've got a Progeny Linux T-Shirt and it's cool and all, but if I went to a tradeshow and (say they were still around, mkay?) they gave me the same T-Shirt, well, meh. You've got to keep cranking out new designs (a couple a year is fine, though), design new case badges, stickers, posters, hell, I'm sure CD artwork would go a long ways to

  • wasn't it proven? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Comsn ( 686413 )
    that advertisements cant run a website buisness? the whole dot com thing didnt teach any lessons, huh?

    it would be funny to see ads for microsoft software on there tho...
    • Wasn't it proven that you can't post an absolute statement on a web site whose very existance refutes your statement? Hmmm... I guess not. Oh well. ;-)
    • You're right, that's why Google went bust when the dot com boom ended. Wait, no they didn't. Ad revenues aren't anywhere near where they were at the height of the dot com boom, but that doesn't mean you can't make a few bucks off of adverstising.

      I suspect that this is probably mainly to cover bandwidth costs and the like. I think Mandrake knows that they'll never make much money off of downloaders, but they can at least stop them from being a net drain.

  • So long as I can change it it's OK (Score:5, Interesting)

    by farnz ( 625056 ) <slashdot&farnz,org,uk> on Friday September 12, 2003 @10:45AM (#6942353) Homepage Journal
    I'm not bothered about this decision at all, so long as there's no effort to prevent me stripping out the adverts; ideally Mandrake will offer a purchased version without them, but I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to cover their costs with advertising.

    Now, if I can't modify it to remove the adverts, and re-upload this version under a new name, that's a different issue.

  • I can't help but think... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by AppyPappy ( 64817 ) on Friday September 12, 2003 @10:45AM (#6942354)
    This is bad news for Mandrake. Ad revenues are spotty at best according to people that I know who rely on them for their websites. What next? Back doors so advertizers can see where we surf?

    It's a great dist but I'd hate to see it become the Juno/Netzero of dists.
    • duh...this isn't like website advertising. I'm not saying it's terribly effective, but if Mandrake can convince people that these will/could work then it's $$$ for them...and they need it badly.

      The only ones that conceivably would be difficult to remove later would be the install ones. It's trivial to redo your bookmarks (I import a file anyways whenever i set up a system, so that becomes a nonissue) and it will probably take about fifteen minutes for some kindly mandrake user to put togehter an rpm that r

    • Re:I can't help but think... (Score:5, Informative)

      by digidave ( 259925 ) on Friday September 12, 2003 @11:23AM (#6942773)
      Web site ad revenues aren't spotty, they're quite good. Do you think Google is having problems finding advertisers?

      The trouble is that any doofus who runs a web site expects that clickthrough banner ads should generate some revenue. Webmasters try to generate revenue from mediocre traffic. You can't do that in any other form of advertising, so I don't see why you should be able to on the web.

      The web site I run at work generates about $350,000/year in legitimate ads (Ford, TD Bank, Esso, McDonalds, Government of Canada, etc) and none of that money comes from clickthroughs. We charge appropriately for the size of the audience and because we have good audience demographic information it makes it really easy to sell ads. And no popups!

  • recompile (Score:3, Insightful)

    by inepom01 ( 525367 ) <inepom01.hotmail@com> on Friday September 12, 2003 @10:45AM (#6942356)
    Won't this only work until someone recompiles any and all apps that have the ads in them? How long before packages appear with advertisement-less binaries?

  • as supported free software (Score:5, Insightful)

    by fowlerserpent ( 690409 ) on Friday September 12, 2003 @10:46AM (#6942360)
    I worry that opensource software will become advertiser supported. I don't think its likely though. It is however an excellent revenue stream. It is advertising that keeps media of virtually all types so inexpensive to consume. The best thing is, the software is opensource. We can just remove the ads.

  • I was a bit worried about this... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Future Man 3000 ( 706329 ) on Friday September 12, 2003 @10:47AM (#6942379) Homepage
    Until I read in the article that it's just the download version. Hey, it's a better form of revenue generation from free products than spyware, I guess.

    There might be other slow-loading free software projects that could benefit from this, too, such as KDE or Mozilla. As long as the ads are for techie/computer stuff that's interesting I'm cool with it.

  • And freshrpms... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by pr0ntab ( 632466 )
    will have "updates" available I'm sure.

    Ads in the installer, I'll abide that. But the webbrowser? :-P

    that being said, I don't run Mandrake anymore. Maybe with version 10, who knows.

  • Unfortunate (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Chuck Bucket ( 142633 )
    It's unfortunate it's coming to this, I wonder if they could have done something different in the beginning; not grown too fast or something. They started very strong, I even used Mdk for some time back in the early days, but grew tired of the constant "why aren't you a member?" attitude of Deno. Now it looks like they want to take over your screensaver, browser homepage, etc in the name of revenue. This feels much like Opera, which always struck me as some strange marriage of freedom and commercialism.

  • Real? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by MindStalker ( 22827 )
    Why are we all assuming this announcement is real. This was simply a posting by an anonymous coward in a discussion group.

  • Linux sucks (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 12, 2003 @10:48AM (#6942393)
    So now I can watch ads while never being able to get my sound card to work.
  • and thats the way it should be. I feel that if mandrake goes down this route, not only will it lose many linux users who will chose other distros, it may also effect public perception of linux and open source software.

    How will it look to the average customer if free software has to resort to ads to make it profitable?
    I worry that this will make free software seem like a less viable alternative to more expensive products.

    • Re:Linux has always been ad free (Score:5, Interesting)

      by digitalhermit ( 113459 ) on Friday September 12, 2003 @11:13AM (#6942680) Homepage
      I see. Mandrake is one of the most "free" distributions available. THey allow their full distribution to be downloaded and their update system doesn't require any subscriptions. They maintian free support lists with Mandrake employees taking part. They look for innovative ways of raising money to continue this distribution -- ways that minimally affect the users -- and suddenly they're contributing to the downfall of Linux?

      Now I love Debian because it's completely free and apt-get rocks, and I get irritated when some late-comer, money grubbing corporation jumps on the Linux bandwagon to try to swing the not-insiginificant number of geek dollars, but Mandrake is one of the good guys. Their philosophy (not corporate philosophy or business model) seems genuinely to be to provide free-speech software. If they can make a little money doing so, then that's even better. And their distribution is one of the easiest to use for non-Linux gurus (I know -- I've installed it for parents and grandparents already).

    • Linux has always been ad free

      Really? Go to a shell prompt and type dmesg. Do you see what I see?

      ReiserFS core development sponsored by SuSE Labs (suse.com). Journaling sponsored by MP3.com

      "sponsered by"!? OMFG! An ad! OMFG! An ad in teh kernel! It's not like Mandrake is going to have popup ads showing up on your desktop, or have permenant banner ads, like ala Opera. It'll take a grand total of 1 minute to eliminate the ads. No big deal.

  • Anyone see this coming? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Rinikusu ( 28164 ) on Friday September 12, 2003 @10:50AM (#6942422)
    Struggling company
    Needs revenue badly
    Sells out to the man

    More seriously, while I might have issues with ads in my screensaver, I don't see any problems with seeing ads upon installation. The way I look at it is the way I look at not blocking ads on my favorite websites (like /. and arstechnica): If me looking at an ad for a moment (actually, I ignore them, but they count ad-load, right?) helps them pay for the sites that I use, then I don't mind at all unless they're purveyors of the evil popup(). If seeing a few ads upon installation allows them to pay for full-time Linux developers who are releasing their software to the community, then it's a small "inconvenience" to pay for so-called greater good.

    I know, there's a giant anti-market bunch out there that are going to jump up and down and scream about how Linux isn't about making money or whatnot, but frankly, I like the idea of someone getting paid to do something they love (work developing Linux and Linux applications) with a somewhat benign method of securing funding. Now, the day they start installing spyware...

  • As long as it's just during the install. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by JoeD ( 12073 ) on Friday September 12, 2003 @10:51AM (#6942434) Homepage
    I don't see a problem with this as long as the ads only pop up during the install, and don't wait for you to hit enter before proceeding.

    I don't see it as any more annoying than the "Windows will make everything you do more fun" message that they used to put on the Windows install. Actually, that message always cracked me up, so I can't really count it as annoying.

    If they start taking money to install a folder on the desktop full of "special offers from our partners" then it might cross a line.

  • How difficult is removal (Score:3, Interesting)

    by $exyNerdie ( 683214 ) on Friday September 12, 2003 @10:52AM (#6942440) Homepage Journal
    Pricing

    Advertising:
    - Installation advertising (for every Mandrake Linux 9.2 version) + bookmarks (for every Mandrake Linux 9.2 version): $ 7,000

    - Screen saver advertising (only for the 9.2 download version): $ 10,000

    - Installation advertising + bookmarks + screen saver advertising: $ 15,000

    Browser Default Page :
    A single message appears for two months (from October 10th to December 10th): $ 7,500

    Three different messages (or a single one) appear for 6 months and change every two months (from October 10th to December 10th, December 10th to February 10th and February 10th to April 10th): $ 15,000

    Installation advertising + bookmarks + screen saver advertising (download version only) + 6 months visibility on default page: $ 24,000

    Makes me wonder how difficult it would be to remove all the adware for a Linux expert ??

  • Oblig SCO comment (Score:5, Funny)

    by dcocos ( 128532 ) on Friday September 12, 2003 @10:59AM (#6942536)
    I wonder if SCO will buy an ad to remind people to send in their $699

  • Mandrake 100% free Software (Score:5, Insightful)

    by phoxix ( 161744 ) on Friday September 12, 2003 @11:07AM (#6942628)
    In case you didn't know, the 3 disc downloadable edition of mandrake is 100% free software. The guys at mandrake worked very hard to make it so.

    I suspect that 9.2 will be 100% free as well. In such an event, "spyware" is simply *NOT* possible on the distro.

    As for the ads .... lets just hope MDK comes to its senses :^)

    Sunny Dubey

    • I suspect that 9.2 will be 100% free as well. In such an event, "spyware" is simply *NOT* possible on the distro.

      Sure it is. For example, they could make their software update tool send your Mozilla history file when it checks for updates. Or they could just modify Mozilla to send them information. Like how the search feature in Netscape goes thru Netscape's servers before going to your configured search engine.

      You've got 3 cds worth of compiled code. How long will it take you to go through their code an

  • Obligatory MS comment (Score:3, Funny)

    by Andrewkov ( 140579 ) on Friday September 12, 2003 @11:08AM (#6942643)
    I can just imagine the Microsoft sponsored splash screen on the Mandrake installer: "Welcome to Mandrake Linux installer! Your life would be much easier if you were currently installing Windows XP Professional!"

  • Why this won't work (Score:3, Interesting)

    by IGnatius T Foobar ( 4328 ) on Friday September 12, 2003 @11:09AM (#6942654) Homepage Journal
    I'm going to go out on a limb and be the nay-sayer here.

    Since it's a distribution nobody wants, they have to resort to displaying advertisements in order to generate revenue. So that must mean there aren't a lot of people installing Mandrake, and therefore a very small number of eyeballs affixed to those advertisements. So why would anyone want to spend $7000 on one?

    This is not a troll, but I'm sure some random Mandrake fan with mod points is going to treat it as one. Mandrake simply doesn't have any significant way to differentiate their distribution anymore, and unlike RH & SusE they don't have a support business to generate the real bucks. The realities of the marketplace are dictating that this company doesn't have what it takes to continue to exist. Perhaps the advertising scheme is a little bit more noble than their previous "give us money as if we were a charity" game, but both seem like desparation moves when you look at them from a business perspective.
    • Mandrake is fairly popular, its close up there with Red Hat for people using it as a home desktop- at least among those I talk with on IRC. Mandrake has a large following of people using Linux at home, most of whom do not pay for it.

      These ads are a fairly easy way to get some money out of the download edition, and they are fairly easy to avoid if you find them annoying.

      Install time ads? You'd be watching mandrake propoganda anyways.

      Bookmark ads? Clean out the bookmark folders.

      Screen saver ads? HA! d

  • Linux users won't put up with it (Score:5, Interesting)

    by BenjyD ( 316700 ) on Friday September 12, 2003 @11:20AM (#6942750)
    Windows users seem more prepared to accept this kind of thing (witness the adverts in Messenger, invasive programs like RealOne, lack of pop-up blocking in IE).
    I doubt your average Linux distro user (even a Mandrake user) is going to put up with this. Adverts during the install process I could just about stomach; after all, Mandrake has to make money somehow. But a major advantage of using Linux is that no one but you owns your desktop - this removes that advantage.

  • Comment removed (Score:3, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Friday September 12, 2003 @11:26AM (#6942807)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • MandrakeSoft's comments at Newsforge... (Score:5, Informative)

    by joestar ( 225875 ) on Friday September 12, 2003 @11:35AM (#6942904) Homepage
    "Following up on a story appearing this morning at DesktopLinux.com about MandrakeSoft selling ads in their free download version of Mandrake Linux, I contacted Gael Duval at MandrakeSoft for more detail on the new advertising/revenue source.

    Duval pointed out that advertising in Mandrake Linux is not really a new thing. There have been ads for Mandrake Linux, MandrakeSoft products, and for free software projects in the installation all along. They introduced paid advertising in the Safari Service in Mandrake Linux 9.l. Duval says that in version 9.2 they are just advancing that concept a little further.

    Duval said the boxed versions of Mandrake 9.2 will not include any paid ads, but that the free download edition (the choice of 90% of Mandrake users) "will now include several additional ads, in the bookmarks and in the screensavers." He noted there will be no annoying pop-up ads.

    He added that most Mandrake users want to see them continue to operate in the spirit of free software while at the same time being successful as a business. These new ads, Duval said, are one way that MandrakeSoft tries "to solve this equation."

    More details on the advertising, including pricing, is available on the MandrakeSoft web site.

    See Joe Barr's article [newsforge.com].

  • This is cool (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Azureflare ( 645778 ) on Friday September 12, 2003 @11:35AM (#6942905)
    This is good for mandrake. They are simply adding bookmarks to websites of the people who paid to advertise. Bookmarks are quite a bit different than the tone generated by the post and responses; it's not like the link is "embedded" permanently in the browser. You just go to edit bookmarks, delete, if you don't like the link. Mandrake is not forcing you to keep the link in your bookmarks.

    I think it's cool. Mandrake needs the money, and this is the sanest and cleanest way of doing it. I'm a silver member of Mandrake, and even though I download mandrake from the 'net, I'm perfectly fine with this development. BTW RC2 is out, and it rocks!

  • This isn't adware. It's not a big deal either. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jensend ( 71114 ) on Friday September 12, 2003 @11:44AM (#6943016)
    1. Non-obtrusive ads during the installation process are nothing new. While it's installing all your thousands of packages, RedHat's installer (since the 7.x series, I think) displays ads for RedHat products and services as well as RedHat and Linux trivia. This is just the first time somebody's displayed third-party ads during installation.

    2. Don't like their default screensaver? It's easy to change, it's not like you'll have to hack xscreensaver source or anything. Don't like their default homepage because it says "Welcome to Mandrake Linux, here are some products you may be interested in" instead of "Welcome to Mandrake Linux"? Change it. No big deal.

    It's not like there is any software here which has been hacked so it needs to be displaying ads in order to work, which is what adware is. Furthermore, I'm sure Mandrake will be judicious in their selection of ads to display (you won't see X10 ads in Mandrake anytime soon, probably will see ads for co-lo's, linux training and certification programs, Oracle, etc).

    Disclaimer: I am not generally a Mandrake user or fan (I've actually only used Redhat and Slack for any major amount of time), I'm just sick of the childish knee-jerk responses here.

  • I don't have a problem with it (Score:3, Interesting)

    by PotatoHead ( 12771 ) <doug.opengeek@org> on Friday September 12, 2003 @11:48AM (#6943071) Homepage Journal
    Basically the Mandrake distro rocks. (Well at least 8.2 does --hope 9.2 continues that.) People are not paying for Mandrake even though they are getting good value.

    If the ads keep Mandrake healthy enough to continue their distribution, but can be changed, who really cares?

    If this really bothers you, why not go and buy the boxed set and really help them out.

    Mandrake is 100 percent free software. Its a nice mix that is worth something. The way I see it, you can either build your own distro, or support one that you like.

    The software may be free, but the work packaging and intergrating it into a distribution is not. We need to pay Mandrake something, or lose Mandrake. Since they are doing fine work, I plan on paying them this time around instead of downloading. --They clearly need more support than they are getting and I get the message.

    Keep up the good work guys!

  • RTFA...Changes are minor (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Kircle ( 564389 ) on Friday September 12, 2003 @12:12PM (#6943329)
    1) Mandrake always displayed advertising during installation. The only difference now is that instead of Mandrake ads, it'll have other ads.

    2) The screensaver use to show slides of Mandrake clipart. Now it'll show slides of ads.

    3) They'll add one link to the advertiser's homepage (seen in browser's toolbar and bookmarks).

    4) They'll include ads on the browser's default start page.

    These changes appear minor and reasonable. If you don't like it: 1) go read a book when installing mandrake, 2) select your favorite screensaver, 3) delete any and all bookmarks to your heart's content, and 4) change the browser's start page.

    I'm guessing a lot of users aren't going to go through the trouble of doing even that. It just doesn't seem that instrusive. And if this is adware, then what does that make Netscape? Netscape IMO is far, far more instrusive.

  • Distro 'ADs' are bad enough (Score:3, Insightful)

    by nurb432 ( 527695 ) on Friday September 12, 2003 @12:58PM (#6943839) Homepage Journal
    Like the ones red hat pushes out to you ' try our certification program'.... or ' red hat advanced server' bla bla bla...

    They are offensive enough .. there isn't an need to add outside companies crap on my screen too..

    I'm so sick of being bombarded by ads 24/7 from every source, be it the road sign every 10 feet, or the 40 mins of commercials for a 60 min tv/radio program, or 80% ad content in my magazine, that I make it a point to NOT purchase a product if see an advertisement for it.

    The entire commercialization of the world has gone too far.. you can even rent space on a police car.. or a school bus..

    • I share your distaste for advertising.

      However: what do you recommend instead of advertising for them? We're talking about the free version of Mandrake here. You don't have to buy the product with your $$$. Instead you 'buy' it with your eyeballs. But if you don't like it, just buy the retail version.

      Everyone working on Mandrake deserves to be paid too. They have families to feed, hobbies to support, and children to send to college too. Expecting them to work for free is just plain wrong.

      Maybe you d

  • and next thing you know.. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by joeldg ( 518249 ) on Friday September 12, 2003 @02:51PM (#6945101) Homepage
    slashdot will be selling ads...
    oh.
    wait a minute..

    hrm..

  • Mandrake Innovation (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Idou ( 572394 ) * on Friday September 12, 2003 @03:00PM (#6945224) Journal
    I am constantly impressed by the amount of true innovation that has come from one company:

    1. urpmi
    2. Mandrakeclub
    3. rpm voting (yeah, I know Deb was here before, but this is the first time for a Commercial Company to do this)
    4. Open Source Sponsor Ads

    I am proud to be a Silver member and will gladly give products of Mandrake sponsors priority when I consume (and will look forward to see who is sponsoring my software next time I update my computers. I though the point of Open Source is great code is great, regardless of who coded it or paid for it to be coded under the GPL).

    btw, if you are mad about these ads because now you really wont be getting a 100% free lunch when you download MDK 9.2, it is time to move out of your parent's basement and get a job. Good intentions don't pay for dinner (though, Mandrake is getting damn close to that scenario!)

  • Fine (kinda) (Score:4, Insightful)

    by gone.fishing ( 213219 ) on Friday September 12, 2003 @03:06PM (#6945347) Journal
    Mandrake has every right to sell advertisments. If it bothers you then you have every right to choose another distro (or "fix" the Mandrake distro).

    Frankly, this may be one way to make open source projects actually profitable. Of course, ads are like seasoning, you want to serve up something that isn't too sweet, too salty, too hot... I suspect that Mandrake is well aware that too much will hurt more then help and that this will not be a problem. I also suspect that they are aware of what will be appropriate for their product so you won't get hit with ads for penis enlargment or Microsoft Office.

    If this is a success, and part of me hopes it will be, there is a real chance that other projects floundering for lack of financing will do the same thing. This could be a real boost in the arm for open source. I can see games sponsored by McDonalds or an office suite sponsored by Staples but I can't see an MP3 player supported by the RIAA (or at least I wouldn't trust it).

    We all know Linux is robust enough to go head to head against Microsoft but Linux lacks a sizeable war chest. Advertising inside of a free operating system could help this in two ways. First is the income. Second is the advertisers desire to see the product successful. This influence could be a great advantage because the sponsor can push the product too!

    Imagine Best Buy advertising on a special distro and then making it available free or next to free in all of their stores. The user gets a free O/S and Best Buy has a desktop filled with the latest weekly specials! I suppose Best Buy sells too much MS software for that to happen but you get the picture.

  • Location, location, location (Score:3, Funny)

    by mdavids ( 143296 ) on Friday September 12, 2003 @05:28PM (#6947724) Homepage

    Meanwhile, Debian will be announcing that it will be charging $5 a pop for advertising in it's installer.

    The price difference is only fair; a Mandrake user will see the ads a couple of times a year, while a Debian user will only see the ads once during the lifetime of the machine.

    Stay tuned for the announcement when or if the new Debian installer is ready.

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