Ernie Ball - Model For Open-Source Transition? 869
fr0z writes "
Ernie Ball is a company that makes guitar strings. After being raided by the BSA in 2000 without warning and fined $100,000 for a few unlicensed copies of software, CEO Sterling Ball vowed not to give another cent to Microsoft and within 6 months, according to CNET News, had the whole company switched to Red Hat Linux, OpenOffice.org, Mozilla, and other free software."
That's sweet but... (Score:3, Insightful)
Anyways - my axe wil be enjoying openSource crafted strings from now
well he couldv'e seen it coming (Score:2, Insightful)
"I said, 'I don't care if we have to buy 10,000 abacuses,'" recalled Ball, who recently addressed the LinuxWorld trade show. "We won't do business with someone who treats us poorly."
[/quote]
if you don't agree with the licensing, don't use illegal copies. it's very nice etc that they switched the whole thing to RH, but come on, if you use commercial software you should pay for it.
Re:well he couldv'e seen it coming (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:well he couldv'e seen it coming (Score:5, Insightful)
From the interview it sounds like they were trying to play by the rules, ok maybe their audits where not as good as they should be, but lets be honest most folks have better things to do then audit software once a month.
little clarification (Score:2, Insightful)
no matter how honest and fair this family business of his might be...
now you can mod me to hell, i know i don't have a popular opinion
Let me get this straight... (Score:-1, Insightful)
I got news for you. It's your responsibility to keep track of your software licenses. There are inexpensive tools, hell, even just a standard policy on what to do with machines would go a long way.
Blockquoting the article:
"The guys in engineering need a new PC, so they get one and we pass theirs on to somebody doing clerical work. Well, if you don't wipe the hard drive on that PC, that's a violation. Even if they can tell a piece of software isn't being used."
He got caught because of his sheer laziness and possibly his own ignorance. Making him into a martyr for open source only legitimises the belief that linux is free software (free as in beer) and, to some point, that only software "pirates" (sic) use it.
Must we glorify this man by giving him frontpage?
Re:Thats like... (Score:3, Insightful)
The only reasonable way such a company can ensure full licenses is to pay MS's outrageous "protection money". I forget what they call it, something like "software assurance". When the BSA comes in, you are guilty until proven innocent. Most companies roll over.
Re:well he couldv'e seen it coming (Score:5, Insightful)
But you know what... it happens. It's live. We aren't robots. We tie our shoe laces, try and stay on the side walks and we sign agreements to say, "If we get overpaid, or udner, the company can rectify that w/ the bank directly, w/o us."
There are people who live dangerously, stealing stuff left and right, making a killing and never get caught. This is a case of someone unconsciously making a mistake (misteak, mmmm) and accidentally having one too many copies installed.
If YOU never break the law, kudos to you. I commend you. Hell, run for president. But the rest of us don't mind having judges to weed out the guilty from the innocent. And that same group understands, those same people are fallible. It's why we have a multi layered court system.
The rest of us are human and expected to be treated as such.
TYVM.
Re:More raids please (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Let me get this straight... (Score:5, Insightful)
He wasn't objecting to being nonconformant, license-wise. He is objecting to the manner in which he was treated as a customer. He objected to the very heavy-handed way they treated it, and to the way they decided to hang him out publicly as an example. He also objects to the steep fines imposed (without any court sanction), and the way the law in practice makes it impossible for smaller businesses to contest the BSA assertions in court.
Re:little clarification (Score:5, Insightful)
That's absolutely correct.
I have a business myself and I tell all my staff "don't use unlicenced software" and they do exactly as I say. And I say, "If you buy software, remember to put the licence and CD-ROM in the software cupboard", and that's what everyone does. And I say "if you buy a computer or recieve a second hand computer, make sure you have all the licences". And do you know, all my staff do that too. Dealing with staff is easy. You just tell them what to do, and they always do it, to the letter, and never forget, and everything is always neat and tidy and wonderfully efficient.
[/end of sarcasm]
I trust you don't actually run your own business with lots of staff?
Re:little clarification (Score:5, Insightful)
In 10 years, we might be saying that the BSA was the worst thing that ever happened to Microsoft and the primary reason that Linux attained desktop market dominance in the corporate world.
Hey a man can dream can't he?
Re:More raids please (Score:1, Insightful)
There are plenty of sound rational reasons to use open source software. Arn't these anti-microsoft rants simply preaching to already converted hot heads?
Actually (Score:5, Insightful)
Most businesses being small businesses or starting out as small businesses' aren't that savvy about IP law. Or the DCMA. In the end the market will react either by the software vendors backing off, the law changing, or people doing what this guy did and choosing alternatives.
Show me proof of ownership for your toilet. Bet you can't!
Re:well he couldv'e seen it coming (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Let me get this straight... (Score:3, Insightful)
But no, they wanted to make an example of him and so they did. Its just now its an example of how to get away from that world.
J.
Re:Let me get this straight... (Score:2, Insightful)
RTFA (Score:2, Insightful)
In the article he says that fewer than 8% of the copies in his business were unlicensed, accidentally leftover when they handed computers down with extraneous applications still on them. They're a guitar string company. They were not, on the whole, a piracy-based criminal organization by any stretch of the imagination but they were treated like one by the BSA. And now they are free from that ever happening again.
Re:Let me get this straight... (Score:5, Insightful)
He got caught because in the process of running a business, he decided not to devote absolutely ridiculuous amounts of time to wiping the harddrives of unused PCs.
And before you accuse the guy of whining, note that he paid his fine, in addition to the presumably hundreds of thousands of legitimate licensing fees that he'd already paid to BSA members.
Now he's doing precisely what a smart businessman should do: recognize that the cost of policing for such tiny violations (and the potential fines that can result) is much higher than the software is worth. He's taking his business elsewhere. And good for him.
Re:Uh (Score:5, Insightful)
a) They weren't using it (but it was unintentionally left installed on the wrong machines.)
and
b) He was willing to make restitution, providing MS had offered him a voluntary audit and a fair price on the 5 machines that were infringing.
He washed his hands of MS because they wanted to make an example out of him. That's a bad way to treat a customer, and he bailed on them.
Oracle Applications.. (Score:2, Insightful)
I'd imagine the accounting department could be an Oracle shop.
He only talked about removing Microsoft....
h
Most Interesting quote (Score:5, Insightful)
Listen to him guys, he's a CEO.
Now I'm going to take those Fenders off, thay don't twang like they used to, and get me some Ernie Balls.
Re:I'd feel bad for them... (Score:3, Insightful)
If software is on your PC but you never use it, is it being used illegally?
Re:well he couldv'e seen it coming (Score:3, Insightful)
He ditched MS because they tried to make an example out of him, not because they tried to collect thier pound of flesh.
laziness and big fines (Score:5, Insightful)
They were not intending to defraud, just poor computer administration led to some accidental license violations.
The offensive part is they didn't give an opportunity to clean up the mess when it was pointed out by deleting the unused software, or buying the software. They didn't work with him to develop a system to track this, or even give a nice little FAQ to help him out.
Instead of working with their customer, they settled for $100,000, for 6 infringing computers? $17k per computer in fines and penalties. That's ridiculous, all the software is a fraction of that cost.
When a person makes a mistake, it is reasonable to point it out and suggest that more care should be taken to avoid this in the future. Expecting them to pay for any damage they caused is also reasonable.
Re:Let me get this straight... (Score:5, Insightful)
The fact is, if you read the article, that he was most upset by how he was treated by the BSA and Microfoft. Which I am guessing you have never had the pleasure of sitting through, either.
Re:little clarification (Score:2, Insightful)
You do do that don't you?
Otherwise your confidence is being able to face a BSA audit might be a little misplaced...
Re:Let me get this straight... (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Oh, the irony of it.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, you do, if you want to stay interoperable with the newer version that other people use and the data format or protocol changes as well (as it does wherever Microsoft has control over it). Or if you need enterprise-level support and Microsoft end-of-lifecycles your version.
Re:well he couldv'e seen it coming (Score:5, Insightful)
The ratio of the least amount of people to cause trouble, vs the amount of damage caused, just for illegal softare installed is WAY too high and too fast to accrue.
BTW, It's called due process and due dilligence. You TRY to do your best, even when you fail. Or would you rather your first speeding ticket, your first petty crime, your first major crime, be taken out to the fullest conviction, or would you rather the judge understand, "Wait, it was a mistake (if it can be proven as such) or this person usually, 99% of the time, does the right thing. A slap on the wrist makes more sense."
Or maybe you are one of those who has enough cash, that if you do make a mistake, you can just blow it off. I'm sorry buddy, most of us don't.
And you know what, companies don't have to buy MS 'cause you don't have to. OO, Linux, Java, Tomcat, Struts, Apache, GnuCash, Pan, Evolution.. they are all viable. And you know what... just 'cuz some people do get fired for using opensource doesn't mean I won't. If anything, when time rolls around, and the proof is in the pudding, people will see. Not that OSS is right for everyone, but it isn't wrong.
Re:More raids please (Score:3, Insightful)
Mod parent up!! (Score:2, Insightful)
I work for one of the UC schools. The people i deal with here all know about open source. the CSE guys use it because it is familiar and can do all the basic things.
the creative people DON'T, partly because the gui is not standardized (yeah, yeah) but mostly because the apps just aren't pro quality. GIMP is not photoshop. you can't color match using printing tools. theres no substitute for adobe illustrator. what about after effects, something that is such a hog on memory that it would benefit from being shoved into a beowulf cluster?
I think that a lot of the programmers on this board get caught up in certain types of apps. Just because you don't use something like Finale or cakewalk, or Final Cut Pro yourself does not mean that these apps aren't something people need.
And yes, I know that you need to do it yourself. Who empowers the musicians to do it when most of them can barely check email? what about video editors who need to spend all their time making sure that the latest coke ad gets in your head?
ahh, I am probably just blowing smoke out my rear, but I like sparking discussion and flamewars
Re:little clarification (Score:5, Insightful)
You're right, and Mr. Ball wasn't disputing the fact that he wasn't in compliance. He was complaining about the way he was treated--armed marshalls knocking on the door and lots of negative publicity pushed by the BSA.
Nobody's arguing the fact that a license is a license, no matter how unfair it is. But as a business-to-business relationship, it would have been MUCH more beneficial for Microsoft to have first approached Ernie Ball outlining the problem and allowing them to correct it before showing up at their door with a warrant and pasting the raid all over the news. And that's all he's saying.
Hidden costs (Score:5, Insightful)
Isn't it standard practice to include potential scenarios like this in business plans, weighted with the probability of it occuring?
Re:More raids please (Score:5, Insightful)
Last time we measured, 70% of the downtime on our network was related to the employees installing other software, or downloading stupid crap, like viruses. It is a work computer, your boss doesn't owe you the ability to scan ebay while you are being paid to do work. By doing so, you cost the company money. Obviously, this doesn't bother you, but then again, you don't own the company.
I take every station that doesn't need internet access OFF, so they won't browse the net for the same reason. Its not my job to provide intertainment for you while you are on your break. If you worked in construction, would you expect the foreman to provide a computer on the internet so you could browse Ebay while you were on break? Then why would you expect this from an office job?
The problem is you expect your boss to entertain you for 7 hours a day, so you can get your 1 hour of work done. Please don't apply for a job where I work.
Reaction to BSA/MS bullying (Score:5, Insightful)
Even if in the IT biz we've accustomed to accepting very very ugly tactics if they're even remotely legally justifiable, it doesn't mean all businesses will want to have anything to do with corporations that employ such if there are alternatives.
Sometimes I wonder when stuff like 'the customer is always right' and such disappeared from the software industry. Well, not all of it. Shops doing custom stuff usually still treat their clients with some respect, at least way better than the large ones with a forcefed product portfolio do. But overall the software biz is starting to resemble some sort of drug pushing operation:
"you know you need our product",
"oh, that was yesterdays price, it's just doubled",
"should you consider not conforming, you can expect a visit from a couple of our friends".
Re:Let me get this straight... (Score:4, Insightful)
Good grief, settle down. That's not a good analogy for this case. In this case, it's as if your kid tries to carry a pack of gum out of the store along with your $100 of groceries you just bought, and they fine you $5000 and put your picture up in the lobby to make an example out of you and your beligerent child.
There didn't appear to be any intent to pirate in the Ball case, but the BSA was looking for an example for cheap press. They got the press they deserved.
Re:Oh, the irony of it.... (Score:5, Insightful)
You threw that in pretty casually without really explaining what you meant by it. Does this mean that there are options that the creator of a document can use that will break this back compatability? If they do use these features, does this mean that the only option for a recipient is to buy an Office upgrade?
I really don't know the answer to these questions, so if there is a simple answer I'd love to know it.
Re:More raids please (Score:5, Insightful)
The end reasons for the swith:
- It's so funny--in three and half years, we went from being these idiots that were thinking emotionally rather than businesslike...to now we're smart and talking to tech guys.
- I know I saved $80,000 right away by going to open source, and each time something like (Windows) XP comes along, I save even more money because I don't have to buy new equipment to run the software. One of the great things is that we're able to run a poor man's thin client by using old computers we weren't using before because it couldn't handle Windows 2000. They work fine with the software we have now.
- One of the analysts said it costs $1,250 per person to change over to open source. It wasn't anywhere near that for us. I'm reluctant to give actual numbers. I can give any number I want to support my position, and so can the other guy. But I'll tell you, I'm not paying any per-seat license. I'm not buying any new computers. When we need something, we have white box systems we put together ourselves. It doesn't need to be much of a system for most of what we do.
- What about the cost of dealing with a virus? We don't have 'em.
- How about when we do have a problem, you don't have to send some guy to a corner of the building to find out what's going on--he never leaves his desk, because everything's server-based.
- If all you need is word processing, that's all you're going to have on your desktop, a word processor. It's not going to have Paint or PowerPoint. I tell you what, our hits to eBay went down greatly when not everybody had a Web browser. For somebody whose job is filling out forms all day, invoicing and exporting, why do they need a Web browser? The idea that if you have 2,000 terminals they all have to have a Web browser, that's crazy. It just creates distractions.
- Look, when you've got Windows 98 not being supported, NT not being supported, OS/2 not being supported--if you're a decision maker in the IT field, you need to be able to look at Linux as something that's going to continue to be supported. It's a major consideration when you're making those decisions.
- Microsoft and some analysts will tell you about all the support calls and service problems. That's hysterical. Have they worked in my office? I can find out how many calls my guys have made to Red Hat, but I'm pretty sure the answer is none or close to it...It just doesn't crash as much as Windows. And I don't have to buy new computers every time they come out with a new release and abandon the old one.
- I'm definitely money ahead now and I'm definitely just as productive, and I don't have any problems communicating with my customers. So thank you, Microsoft.
He's using a thin client setup, limiting his employees applications to increase productivity, lowering his downtime, and decreasing his support and hardware budgets. I'd say those are good enough reasons.Re:Oh, the irony of it.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:little clarification (Score:2, Insightful)
Sure, they have a license for that new copy of windows.. but how about that copy of Visio that Tom was using, that no one ever bothered to uninstall, or the Autocad, or the (insert some app that an engineer would use but a clerk would not), by simply forgetting to remove the app and passing the system on, they've become out of compliance. Never mind that the new user never opens that app, they are out of compliance just the same.
And while it may be easy to talk about keeping things up to date, and managing licenses etc. That's possible and maybe even easy when you have a large IT department and can just throw people/time/money at it. What do you do when your IT department is one or two guys who are responsible for 25 servers, plus 400 desktops, plus phones, who barely have time to wipe their own asses, do you think it's easy then?
Re:Actually (Score:3, Insightful)
That's actually very easy, as a toilet is considered to be a component of your house, and thus property of the house owner. So you only have to prove ownership of the house, which is usually well documented.
Usually, the possessor of an object is considered to be the owner, unless the contrary is proven.
Software isn't an object. It's information, and you need a licence, a contract to be allowed to copy it. Hence, you're not proving your ownership, but you have to prove that you were entitled to make a copy (install it).
Re:More raids please (Score:3, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Let me get this straight... (Score:3, Insightful)
However, it is also a reality of doing business that you treat your customers with some care even when they are in the wrong, particularily when the problem is due to inattention or negligence, rather than willful infringement. Thjat is, you do so if you want to keep them as customers.
To take a better example: your company sells boxes of widgets to another company periodically. One time it turns out the payment hasn't arrived in time - in fact, it's rather late. Do you:
a) call/send a polite letter to your contact wondering what has happened;
b) have the employee handling this customer visit in person, both to affirm the business relationship, and incidentally remark on the unfortunate delay on the latest payment; or
c) sue them for the full amount, interest due and damages, and hang them out in the trade press as criminal assholes.
If you want to continue selling widgets to them, c is not an option - except if they are so small customers they are irrelevant, or you're so confident on you being irreplaceabe that they will continue buying from you no matter what you do.
If you feel the last approach is fine, I wish you good luck if you would ever decide to go into business.
In any case, the real meat of this piece is not that they became disgruntled, but that Linux does work fine as an alternative for a business of their size.
Re:More raids please (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:He didn't do enough research... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Amen! (Score:3, Insightful)
But I choose Gimp even on Windows, so it's moot
Re:Oh, the irony of it.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Blaster Worm: Critical Security Patch for Windows NT 4.0 [microsoft.com]
Re:Reaction to BSA/MS bullying (Score:5, Insightful)
I never cease to find it amazing that hard-nosed business people accept such lousy service/performance/reliability/cost/you-name-it in this area of their businesses.
It is as if critical analysis goes out of the door where IT is concerned. The vast majority of businesses have simply fallen for the lie^Hne that "you never got fired for buying Microsoft software"
The business case for OSS adoption has become the theme for a monthly column I am writing for the UK magazine LinuxUser & Developer. I passionately believe that not only is OSS frequently the best technical solution to an IT problem (something I guess most of us here believe), it is also often the best *business* solution to a business problem.
Re:Nice, but only good on new hardware. (Score:2, Insightful)
You do know that Microsoft Office loads part of itself into RAM when Windows starts, right? (AFAIK)
This gives faster "load" times..
Thunderbird is an e-mail client.. not a front-end.. You mean Firebird? it's a whole new browser with a differrent rendering engine.
The reason you can't get OOo to work nicely in 128MB ram is because KDE or GNOME is eating a lot of that with eye-candy.. try with IceWM and be amazed.
You haven't explained why you need a new hard drive for OpenOffice, and how it costs $500 to throw in another 128mb RAM into the computers ($150 000 / 300 = $500 per computer). RAM isn't very expensive now.. I can get 128mb SD-133 (I assume that is what is in that generation of computers) for ~CDN$45.. cheaper when on sale. Therefore, I estimate USD$9000, not USD$150 000.
You, sir, are full of shit.
CEO Apple ignorant (Score:1, Insightful)
That being said, open source was still his best move, since it required no hardware change and no OS upgrade fees.
He's right... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Amen! (Score:2, Insightful)
You forgot "for me" at the end of your sentence. Because for me, there is already way too much, and for free. I say this, because *all my needs* are covered by Free Software (even Video editing), and it's a shame, because then I do not need to buy any commercial package. Ah, except perhaps a DVD Video Mastering software.
GIMP is pretty much the only raster graphics package out there, Win32 has Photoshop, Paint Shop Pro, Corel Photo Paint, Fireworks, Painter, etc. I can chose between Illustrator, Freehand and Corel Draw for vector graphics. Combustion, Avid, Premiere, After Effects, etc.
That is where I can not understand complaining guys like you. On one hand they complain that there are too much similar apps on Linux, and on the other hand complain that there is only one.
Looks like empty bitching to me.
It's all good and fine that I can write a letter, do my taxes and the like on a *nix machine, but I need to actually work now and then and the applications *still* aren't there.
*Your* applications still are not there. That's not here or to Linux you have to complain, that is to Adobe, Corel, etc. That is *their* fault, not Linux'.
Fortunately, you have very specialised needs, so it doesn't look so bad.
Re:Oh, the irony of it.... (Score:4, Insightful)
I was not aware of this. Is it possible to provide more detail. I am a heavy OOo user, and write plenty of macros for it. I was not aware of such a case. I would find it interesting to know how to produce a file in 1.1RCx that 1.0.x cannot open.
He's still ahead (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Oh, the irony of it.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Passion about software (Score:3, Insightful)
The sound reasons are what should ultimately guide you.
Your use of terms like "rants" and "hot heads" got my attention. Communities tend to naturally form where people feel strongly about something.
There seems to be a notion on slashdot that having any passion about your software is somehow a bad thing. Nobody seems to think there is anything wrong with having strong feelings about other political issues. People proudly line up and declare a party. The lines are clearly drawn.
I'll admit it. I feel strongly about open source. I'm biased. I try not to let it affect my evaluating and decision making. In my experience, the people (usually Microsoft zealots) who claim to be un-biased, are the most biased people of all. (But not just on the Microsoft side either.) I'll say it again, people who claim to be unbiased, are sometimes the most biased.
Finally, for those who would suggest that slashdot weenies are the only ones who are fanatical about their software, I only have this to say....
developers, developers, Developers, Developers, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS!, DEVELOPERS!!
and...
Whooooo! Give it up for me! I have only four words to say: I LOVE THIS COMPANY!
Re:More raids please (Score:5, Insightful)
Nope, unfortunately avoiding software piracy doesn't really help to avoid the BSA, especially given they can audit you at the request of a disgruntled employee (avoid gruntling your employees!
Ugh...anyway, if my facts are wrong, let me know, but that is how I understand things to go.
And a straight answer to the ole TCO question ... (Score:5, Insightful)
- I'm not making calls to Red Hat; I don't need to. I think that's propaganda...What about the cost of dealing with a virus? We don't have 'em. How about when we do have a problem, you don't have to send some guy to a corner of the building to find out what's going on--he never leaves his desk, because everything's server-based. There's no doubt that what I'm doing is cheaper to operate. The analyst guys can say whatever they want.
Hurrah! Someone finally cut through all the bullshit, and basically said it straight. Take that you buzzword speaking analyst! Begone back to the hellish dimension that spawned you!Re:What BSA Raids accomplish (Score:4, Insightful)
Developers need to get paid (Score:4, Insightful)
If you want us to write accounting software, pay us to do so. It is not something we are going to do for fun.
Re:Oh, the irony of it.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Site licenses are only valid for up to 2 revisions behind, I think. In addition, it is ILLEGAL to ghost a PC for which you only have an OEM license. Therefore, if you replace a machine, you cannot make it part of your standard network, because you can't get a license for it!
Then, if there's a major security problem (or other bug), you can't get support for it.
So, although they technically don't require you to upgrade, the practical fact is you must.
Re:Oh, the irony of it.... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Oh, the irony of it.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:More raids please (Score:4, Insightful)
He gets to make things and all I get is the internet.
Yea, I get paid more as a programmer than he does as a janitor but that's not my point. The point is, you don't need a computer with a web browser in front of you to goof off at work. I've never worked in construction but I'm sure they have their own way of goofing off, whether it's just standing around talking or practicing their aim with a nail gun.
Re:What BSA Raids accomplish (Score:3, Insightful)
I can't decide if this is +5 Insightful or +5 Funny
Libre software (Score:4, Insightful)
Employee Morale (Score:5, Insightful)
If you are concerned about overuse, filter sites employees use or bytes transferred or access hours. There all sorts of ways to manage internet access without cutting it out all together.
The internet, like anything else, can be abused and overused while at work. Milly the office clerk can blow the whole day talking on the phone, regardless of whether or not you turn her internet on or off. The bottom line is that goofing off at work was occuring long before the internet was even a twinkle in some engineers eye (while daydreaming at his regular job no doubt). It's a fact of business life, and its well known.
Your post suggests that you are of the "employee is the enemy" managerial mindset. Its bad for the morale of your employees and also their productivity. If they are able to complete their assigned work in the time allotted, what is the problem?
"Please don't apply for a job where I work."
I don't think I will have a problem with that directive.
Re:He's right... (Score:3, Insightful)
Us business owners need BUSINESS applications. We don't need servers. We don't needs cutesy tools. We need some business apps. If someone wanted to sell me an OSS package, all ready to go, I'd look at it. As is, I'd have to cobble it together myself, and I just don't have the time.
I consider myself the other side of the coin. I'm a Java programmer slash computer science student, and I'm pretty good. I believe OSS has the future. I would like to make some software for (small?) businesses and maybe make some money on supporting it, or writing extra features.
But I have no idea what a "business application" needs. I don't know business. I have a general idea of what accounting is, but I just don't know all the myriad details of what such software has to be able to do.
If this were something I was making for myself, I'd just make what I need for myself. Then perhaps other people use it and there's feedback, etc. That way I produce, well, server and coding stuff.
I can't just start making something and hope it will be useful. There's probably a lot of things that you need that the software won't do, so the software won't be used and it won't improve. And I won't even be using it myself.
If you can sit down and write *detailed* specifications of everything you'd want your business application to do, and then put a reward on one that's open source, standards compliant et cetera, then it sounds interesting. But I would certainly need specs to build to.
OTOH, there is also Compiere [compiere.org]. Which looks good, but still relies on an Oracle database. But it looks professional enough. Is that the sort of thing you need?
Re:More raids please (Score:4, Insightful)
and the funny part... This fact scares the absolute Shite out of every MCSE and Microsoft loving PHB.
as they know that such a change means' they no longer have a job.
After the last round of RPC bullcrap the company I work for has came to be with tons of questions about migration away from microsoft.
It's only a matter of time before upper managers start seeing the real savings in hardware and licenses will easily offset the increased cost of actually hiring skilled IT staff.... and stories like these only remind them.
Re:Oh, the irony of it.... (Score:3, Insightful)
There are PLENTY of NT lans still out there, and there are plenty of hardware issues. This is real world stuff, not theoretical.
Re:More raids please (Score:5, Insightful)
because otherwise they will go insane with boredom, you insensitive clod!
Umm... what did people do before there were web browsers at work? Oh, yeah, they did THEIR JOB. The fact that some managers have decided that they want their employees to, in fact, work, shouldn't be considered bad.
(Of course, I'm thankfull that my boss isn't one of these, as I'm posting this from work)
Re:Developers need to get paid (Score:3, Insightful)
The free software developers up to the task are working on real applications, like Samba, Apache, GCC, GDB, binutils, Open Office, Mozilla, or the Linux kernel, where they get paid for their work.
If you want some application for Linux, just whining about of the free software developers "should" write one isn't going to help. If it is not fun, realize that you have to pay for it. Whether you can find a free software business model for that, or have to resort to some redististribuition limited model, I don't care. Just stop whining abouyt what other people ought to do, and start paying. You have the problem, so you find the solution. (generic you).
Re:More raids please (Score:1, Insightful)
You can *not* do that with Microsoft.
Besides the fact this still has nothing to do with the other savings he's experienced.
Re:More raids please (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm an MCSE. I work on Microsoft stuff. I'm not a complete idiot, I used to be a HP-Unix / Solaris SysAdmin, switched for the $$$.
WinXP is just, well, WRONG for workstation duty; It's Win2kP with a nasty bloated interface, tons of security features removed, and a zillion bugs added.
How the hell is this a troll?
Re:What BSA Raids accomplish (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:More raids please (Score:3, Insightful)
Nope. He should stick to his knitting. We folks who play guitar need those strings. His are really good. I don't want him distracted (and possibly going out of business) because he's trying to start up a business that's outside his current company's core competency.
Now, if one or two of his IT guys could find competent replacements and start "their own" company, they might have good luck.
Re:More raids please (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Nail your boss? (Score:3, Insightful)
That's what you get for creating disgruntled employees...
Yeah, how dare you fire that guy who always:
(Just because he's disgruntled doesn't mean he has a good reason to be...)
Jay (=