Flavor vs. Flavour 925
An anonymous reader writes "A recent flamewar ensued on the Linux kernel mailing list, this time debating the proper spelling of 'flavor', or is it 'flavour'? Even Linux creator Linus Torvalds joined the fray with some rather humorous comments. For the most part, it sounds like spellings will stay as they are, but it makes for an entertaining read."
Here you go... (Score:3, Informative)
Next!
Re:Here you go... (Score:3, Informative)
Read: The American Heritage(R) Dictionary of our version of the English Language
Re:Flavor/Flavour (Score:1, Informative)
It removes ambiguity, i.e "The Town Centre" means a building called the "Town Centre" not the Center of Town.
an element of seriousness (seriosness?) (Score:5, Informative)
As you can see, one part of this header is spelled with a u and the other without. This could create some developer confusion.
Re:Flavor/Flavour (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language#
"Compared to British English, American English is conservative in its phonology. It is often claimed that certain rural areas in North America speak "Elizabethan English," but in fact the standard American English of the upper Midwest has a sound profile much closer to seventeenth century English than the current speech of England has."
"American English has some small differences from British English. American English has both spelling and grammatical differences from British English, some of which were made as part of an attempt to rationalize the English spelling used by British English at the time. Unlike many 20th century language reforms (e.g., Turkey's alphabet shift, Norway's spelling reform) the American spelling changes were not driven by government, but by textbook writers and dictionary makers.
The first American dictionary was written by Noah Webster in 1828. At the time America was a relatively new country and Webster's particular contribution was to show that the region spoke a different dialect from Britain, and so he wrote a dictionary with many spellings differing from the standard. Many of these changes were initiated unilaterally by Webster.
Webster also argued for many "simplifications" to the idiomatic spelling of the period. Somewhat ironically, many, although not all, of his simplifications fell into common usage alongside the original versions, resulting in a situation even more confused than before.
Many words are shortened and differ from other versions of English. Words such as center are used instead of centre in other versions of English. And there are many other variations. "
Re:Flavor/Flavour (Score:3, Informative)
We could argue for years over when dictionary-writing became serious, but most people would probably cite Samuel Johnson's dictionary, published in 1755, about 75 years before Websters. Note that it included only spellings, not definitions.
My real point is this -- it's just an incorrect assumption to think of this as an example of Americans changing things for the sake of change.
Think about it-- we're still measuring stuff in feet, quarts, and pounds, for God's sake.
At the point when Webster created his dictionary, the concept that there WAS such a thing as a "correct" spelling was just beginning to take hold.
There's lots of real things to blame on the United States-- you don't have to make up false stuff. And when you do, well -- aren't you doing exactly what annoys you the most about Americans in the first place?
Re:Here you go... (Score:5, Informative)
Here are the relavent lines from the entry:
"Forms: . 4- flavor, 5 Sc. flewoure, 5- flavour. . 6 Sc. fleoure, fleure, fleowre, fleware, -ere, 8 Sc. flaur."
and the help file:
"Variant forms are the alternative spellings in which a word has been found over the centuries. Centuries are given in abbreviated form in the Second Edition. For instance, 4-8 should be read as 14th to 18th centuries, and 1 means before 1100 AD."
The above is the best guess as to what the numbers mean in the entry itself, but that would mean that the other forms which look like Old English would be more recent. Also, in the quotations given "flavour" precedes "flavor" in time. So I'm confused.
Anyway, the entry for "favour, favor" says "As in other words with the same ending, the spelling with -our is preferred in the British Isles, while in the U.S. -or is more common."
Good reason for the change though... (Score:2, Informative)
1357: rpc_authflavor_t authflavour;
which means that there are inconsistencies in the variable naming, which could lead to confusion later on.
Re:Not quite (Score:1, Informative)
Are you from Alberta?
In the four provinces I've lived in, it's centre. Noun, verb, whatever. I suppose you color in between the lines with your coloured pencils too?
Re:Not quite (Score:5, Informative)
Unfortunately, sir, you are incorrect. Up here in Canada, as you put it, centre is always spelled -re unless one is referring to an object in the United States.
We still centre our sights on targets, albeit without handguns. Americans are the only ones who center anything.
As far as objects go, yes, Med Centre remains as such, although, the Kennedy Space Center is spelled in the American fashion.
Re:Webster was a tool. (Score:4, Informative)
Keep in mind that I've looked up several words in the OED over the course of this discussion, and en *every case* the current US spelling was around earlier than Webster. Case in point: "flavor" dates to no later than 1641, and pollibly as early as the 1300s, though I doubt my reading of the entry as far as that in concerned (however, if correct, "flavor" predates "flavour"). Same goes with center, color, and favor.
New Oxford American Dictionary (Score:4, Informative)
As a US citizen, I for one don't recognize(-se) Webster's as my standard...I much prefer the New Oxford American Dictionary, (2001). Webster's just seems a little to casual and not as rigorously researched and edited. Besides, the N.O.A.D. is from the same organization as the Oxford English Dictionary, the British standard, so it is IMHO in the best position to illustrate the American vs. British language variants.
Which, BTW, the New Oxford American Dictionary specifies flavor only, with a parenthetical note that the British spelling happens to be flavour. But in American English, flavour is not an acceptable spelling.
On a side note, the web community seems to need help with their spelling too. Consider:
Re:U.S. spelling has the original forms (Score:2, Informative)
Re:New Oxford American Dictionary (Score:2, Informative)
As for the referer, ya, that's just annoying.
Re:Not quite (Score:3, Informative)
Standardization of French (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Common? (Score:1, Informative)
Math skills man!
Re:Flavor/Flavour (Score:4, Informative)
There are are so many basic historico-linguistic errors running through this thread that I don't know where to start, but here's as good a one as any. Johnson's dictionary most emphatically DID include definitions. It would never have gained the status it did otherwise - indeed most of the interest in it today comes from its delightfully politically incorrect definitions. For example:
Oats: a grain which in England is given to horses, but in Scotland supports the people.
Pension: pay given to a state hireling for treason to his country
Patron: A wretch who supports with indolence, and is rewarded with flattery
Of course these are only partial definitons - Johnson also included more useful descriptions, together with examples of their use. It is this which makes Johnson's dictionary the true forebear of all English dictionaries.
Re:Webster was a tool. (Score:3, Informative)
Please, please, please. It was HENRY VIII who broke with Rome and founded the Anglican church, because the Pope wouldn't give him a divorce. Between him and James I there were three other monarchs (Edward VI, Mary, Elizabeth I), four if you count Lady Jane Gray's brief "rule". I presume that the reason you think James I was responsible for Anglicanism is the King James Bible - though this was solidly plagiarised from Wycliff's much earlier work.
Re:Flavor/Flavour (Score:1, Informative)
Re:New Oxford American Dictionary (Score:3, Informative)
From http://www.apache.org/~rbowen/presentations/urlmap ping/slide35.html [apache.org];
Re:Webster was a tool. (Score:4, Informative)
They could do no worse than the old English that the English themselves had discarded...The reason most USian words are around earlier is because they're from pre-Norman Britain.
Let's test this hypothesis with a little Old English, the language of pre-Norman England. Here are the first five lines of Beowulf (no cluster jokes please), the best known work of Old English literature (using the modern alphabet since slashcode doesn't like Old English characters):
Hwaet, we gar-dena in geardagum,
theodcyninga thrym gefrunon,
hu tha aethelingas ellen fremedon!
oft Scyld Scefing sceathena threatum,
monegum maegthum meodosetla ofteah,
Now if you can recognise American English in there, I want some of whatever you're taking. The plain fact is that Old English is a completely "foreign" language to modern English speakers. The first texts we could recognise as English are 14th century (eg Chaucer), which are written in Middle English - which shares a similar grammar to moden English, but a very different vocabulary. From between the 11th and 14th centuries, when English took on a recognisable form, there are no written documents in English surviving, because the languages of the literate classes were French and Latin. Moreover, the major differences between US and British spelling are almost all in words deriving from French rather than OE. For example, Old English for colour is "beo" (couleur in French).
We Brits pronounce it -er and spell it -re.
On a lighter note, we Brits may spell "-re", but we don't pronounce "er", unless you're from the West Country. it's "centa" through & thru.
Oh, and if you want to know how Beowulf opens on modern english:
LO, praise of the prowess of people-kings
of spear-armed Danes, in days long sped,
we have heard, and what honor the athelings won!
Oft Scyld the Scefing from squadroned foes,
from many a tribe, the mead-bench tore,
Where Do You Live? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:American spellings, definitions taking over? (Score:2, Informative)