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Novell Nterprise Linux Services Announced 236

eer writes "At BrainShare (Novell's customer/developer conference), Novell customers reacted positively to the news that they would have the choice of running Novellâ(TM)s network services on Linux or NetWare or both. Today the company provided more details by introducing Novell Nterprise Linux Services, which will give customers file, print, messaging, directory and management services in an integrated package that runs on the Red Hat Enterprise Linux and SuSE Linux Enterprise Server distributions--along with providing those customers with comprehensive Novell technical support, training and consulting services for Linux. Partner companies, including IBM, HP, Dell, Red Hat and others, also voiced their support for Novell's Linux."
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Novell Nterprise Linux Services Announced

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  • Way to go Novell (Score:5, Interesting)

    by jasonsfa98 ( 648370 ) on Tuesday June 24, 2003 @10:00AM (#6283833)
    More great stuff from them.

    I have seen many people put Novell down recently with all the SCO crap going on. But the truth is, they really do make great stuff that nobody can compete with (right now). Linux/Sendmail/mySQL is great (I use it a lot) but everything from Novell is just easier to deploy (flame bait).

    I mean ... can anyone challenge GroupWise?
  • Re:finally! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Angry White Guy ( 521337 ) <CaptainBurly[AT]goodbadmovies.com> on Tuesday June 24, 2003 @10:02AM (#6283859)
    What we really have is a repacement for NIS+

    If Nterprise uses an alternate file ownership scheme with network ACL's, I'm all for it!
  • by Adam Rightmann ( 609216 ) on Tuesday June 24, 2003 @10:02AM (#6283862)
    I've always been a fan on Novell. I cut my teeth on Netware 3.12, and was always impressed with it's stability (plus, it's lack of virii, ever hear of a Novell virus).

    Once you got to Novell 4 and 5, you were able to manipulate very large scale networks, with thousands of users, something MS barely does (one PDC?) and Linux not at all. It makes me laugh when Linux Zealots talk about replacing corporate networks with Linux servers, and the largest network they've administered is 3 Pentiums and a Pentium II for playing Doom.

    Yeap, one big step for more Linux in real, corporate networks.
  • by stonebeat.org ( 562495 ) on Tuesday June 24, 2003 @10:04AM (#6283882) Homepage
    http://forge.novell.com/modules/news/ [novell.com] a SourceForge repository of Open Source stuff for Novell. RSYNC, Apache, bash, gcc etc.....
  • by icewalker ( 462991 ) on Tuesday June 24, 2003 @10:04AM (#6283884)
    I mean, just a couple of weeks ago, Novell was trying to put SCO off of Linux by claiming ownership of key UNIX Copyrights. With this announcement just made - I would think they were trying to keep SCO at bay so that they could come out with this new product announcement and not have a certain amount of uncertainty about it from the Industry. After all, they have been developing this software for years ... yes years! There's a lot of money tied up in this.

    It all makes a little more sense now. I'm glad they finally embraced their services on Linux though. I always like the Novell File Services!

  • by einer ( 459199 ) on Tuesday June 24, 2003 @10:05AM (#6283903) Journal
    Will this run on a 'consumer level' version of RedHat? If not, why not?
  • by select * from ( 593191 ) on Tuesday June 24, 2003 @10:10AM (#6283956)
    This is cool news, and definitely a step in the right direction. Their ZENworks package already relies on Linux to support workstation imaging. You can create boot disks/CDs to install the support partition on the client PC for imaging operations. Parts of ZENworks are written in Java (actually runs under a virtual machine on the Netware box), so moving them to Linux would probably be fairly trivial as well. Looks like they made a couple good choices back then that will pay off in the future.
  • support (Score:2, Interesting)

    by meshko ( 413657 ) on Tuesday June 24, 2003 @10:14AM (#6284008) Homepage
    I can't say I'm a big fan of Novell's support, but I'm somewhat impressed with parts of their products. They, I think, make more sense in enterprise than Windows-based solutions and this new direction will also help Linux a lot because Linux really doesn't have much to offer in the area of enterprise organization (I don't think pure LDAP solutions are powerful enough, but I might be wrong).
    This will also mean more products on Linux as a lot of companies which already support NetWare will have to move in Linux direction.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 24, 2003 @10:22AM (#6284074)
    That doesn't even make sense... They dropped their enterprise-wide File/Print Server system to return to Peer-to-Peer networking via W2K workstations?

    I call shenanigans!
  • by Latent IT ( 121513 ) on Tuesday June 24, 2003 @10:22AM (#6284078)
    Except Bordermanager, which blows donkeys IMO.

    Maybe it does blow donkeys, but I've got it as an http proxy for 1,000 simultaneous users right now - I think that's pretty darn good. And it used to crash a whole lot, but it was a hardware problem - 45 days up, and climbing fast. So sad that so many of those users are looking at pictures of...

    People... blowing... donkeys?

    Christ, these internet logs scare me. Over 130 MB/day, too.
  • Re:About time (Score:2, Interesting)

    by PaulBeelee ( 680895 ) on Tuesday June 24, 2003 @10:30AM (#6284153) Homepage
    I work with Novell stuff ALOT, and I find that Linux zealots (of which I am one) often have no idea what it is Novell brings to the "enterprise". Regarding your points, NetWare 5.x came with a JAVA tool called ConsoleOne which can be used to administer the "Tree". Novell has continued to push everything in that direction, and rely less on NWadmin. BTW, NetWare 5 was out in '98 or '99. Last year I loaded up ConsoleOne on a Redhat box at work and was able to admin my Tree. That was huge. I then went to google and sourceforge and started scanning the web for a NetWare client, that could use IP and not IPX (since with NetWare 5 Novell went to a native IP stack, no longer needed IPX). Saddly I found nothing good at all. I haven't looked since, I hope there is something out now so that I can log into an NDS tree from a Linux workstation. Further, I tried setting up a NetWare volume on that Linux box, that was not even close to working. So, if they have solved the Linux as a workstation, and Linux as a server in the NDS Tree issues, I will bounce off the wall with joy. One last point, Novell is still HUGE in some areas, law firms, some government agencies, etc. Embracing Linux gives Novell a continued upgrade path and future, which was becoming harder and harder to justify as Novell lost more and more mindshare. So this is a huge move for Novell's survival.
  • Re:About time (Score:2, Interesting)

    by llamalicious ( 448215 ) on Tuesday June 24, 2003 @10:33AM (#6284187) Journal
    You're on to something DP

    NWAdmin's tool was so powerful, we migrated all of our SAM-based NT domains 4.0 to NDS for NT 2.0 on Novell 4.x in as OU's in the primary tree. (No small task, this was at the number 1 largest air conditioning company in the world no less.)

    Nothing better than having a single interface to manage all your organizations accounts and permissions, especially NWAdmin.

    Now, apply that to linux/*nix services across the board, and you've got a winner. Albeit a most likely expensive, commercial winner...
  • Who cares! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Ridgelift ( 228977 ) on Tuesday June 24, 2003 @10:38AM (#6284236)
    Who cares! Linux doesn't need Novell, or Microsoft for that matter.

    I earned my Novell CNE (Certified NetWare Engineer) back in 1996, and since then watched Microsoft's Windows NT steadily eat away their market share. Novell succeeded back in the 80's and early 90's because they filled a need. It didn't matter that their support was bad or their marketing non-existent, because at one time NetWare was the only game in town. But they lost their market share to Microsoft because they did not improve their support or their marketing.

    But times have changed. Microsoft may be the leader now, and although they do a good job of marketing, their support is awful, mostly because their products are bloated piles of spagetti code. I ditched working with NetWare because I can do everything and more with NT, and then I ditched NT because I can do everything and more with Linux and can support it or make changes without things blowing up. Linux will never have the marketing that Microsoft has, but it doesn't need it because word of mouth and an ever improving product is the best form of advertising.

    Sorry Novell. Sorry Microsoft. You treated guys like me who paid thousands of dollars for your certifications like crap for years, so we left and decided to write our own. Linux doesn't need Novell or Microsoft to succeed in the long run. Anyone who says different hasn't worked in the industry long enough.
  • Question (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Total_Wimp ( 564548 ) on Tuesday June 24, 2003 @10:43AM (#6284271)
    When Apple becomes Unix and Novell becomes Unix should we really be referring to them as "competing OSes" anymore?

    If all I'm doing is providing body panels and upholstery I'm not going to be calling myself an auto manufacturer.

    TW
  • by xchino ( 591175 ) on Tuesday June 24, 2003 @10:46AM (#6284300)
    It seems that Novell is really and truly dedicated to the OSS community. I didn't know until I looked at their page, but Novell is offering a Linux certification, the CLE (Certified Linux Engineer) apparently somewhat equivalent to the LPI cert (at least that's what they recommend for studying), but also including Novell Nterprise services for Linux.

    This has got to be the smartest marketing Novelll has ever done. (Any of you familiar with Novell know how absolutely BAD they are at marketing). I actually have a renewed interest in Novell products, and I may just dust off my CNE cert and hang it on my wall proudly, rather than hiding it at the bottom of my underwear drawer where no man but me dares tread. A CNE and a CLE might look nice together on a resume.

  • cool (Score:2, Interesting)

    by oohp ( 657224 ) on Tuesday June 24, 2003 @10:59AM (#6284437) Homepage
    Hey, Novell had the most fine-grained access control and nicest directory services implementation. Don't know if that's still the case with Active Directory around, but I'd really use Novell on Linux to do file and print services for Windoze boxes rather than Windows 2000 or 2003. I've also heard it scales very well. It came a bit late but it's still a great thing. With SCO spreading FUD around, the timing of this release proves that Novell trusts the Linux platform, so their release may add a plus of credibility as well.
  • by TheViffer ( 128272 ) on Tuesday June 24, 2003 @11:01AM (#6284450)
    Novell services on Caldera (1996) [com.com]

    A step that is seven years late. Find it hard no one remembers this.

    Funny, seven years ago this was blasphemy. The Linux world was up in arms. Novell is evil! SCO rocks!! Please leave our little Linux alone!!!

    Today, the present. The Linux world wishes for ALL corporations to use Linux. SCO is evil! Novell rocks! Please add to our Linux and make it your own.
  • by dcavanaugh ( 248349 ) on Tuesday June 24, 2003 @11:02AM (#6284469) Homepage
    I would be shocked if Microsoft didn't have a large groups of people studying Linux; they may very well have their own internal distro. Considering that M$ needs all the security help it can get, NSA would be a good base for such a thing.

    The real goal of M$ Linux would be to take concepts that work and port them back to Windows, so as to reinforce the monopoly in the places where it is crumbling. They might try to use marketing magic to bring some of the NSA credibility to Windows, although they are a long way from having a product that would remain secure long enough to make the effort worthwhile.

    Microsoft is a mature IT company. They have to hold onto Windows because any other technology will cannibalize their revenue stream faster than new customers can replenish it. They face a dilemma in that competitors are free to bring their Linux submarines to periscope depth and launch torpedoes at the M$ battleship.

    There may be a point in the future when some other technology undercuts or outperforms Linux and the Red Hats of the world have grown to a size where they can't adopt the new stuff without killing their existing base.
  • debian advocacy (Score:3, Interesting)

    by oohp ( 657224 ) on Tuesday June 24, 2003 @11:12AM (#6284553) Homepage
    There is a poll on the page with "what Linux distribution do you use". Debian got a lot of votes (more than SuSE). As RedHat and SuSE Enterprise Server software doesn't come cheap, I suggest that people who like Debian should go vote. Maybe Novell will support Debian as well. Think about it -- the platform OS will come at zero cost.
  • Re:Novell Is Smart. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Lumpy ( 12016 ) on Tuesday June 24, 2003 @11:24AM (#6284668) Homepage
    I also agree that novell was going downhill for a long time now... I have a copy of Novell netware 5.1 with 10 user licenses in my drawer that has never been used... why? because 4.x is still doing the job fine for the decriped old crap that still uses it. (old dos based product that I hope dies real soon.)

    The novell server it is on has been up for over 7 years now. noone touches it except to change the backup tape daily. no administration, no reboots, no nothing ever needed to be done to it. something that is 100% impossible with any microsoft server ever made. it serves the files and printers flawlessly. Management 3 years ago wanted to upgrade it so they made me buy 5.1 and the new user pack.. I naver installed it as it is pure stupidity to mess with something that is not broke...

    I really hope that that old reliability and efficency that was the basis of novell is coming along with this product of theirs...

    because no programmers at microsoft are capable of it, and BSD or linux is the only thing even close to the realiability and speed of Novell.

    My only problem I ever had with netware was the insane way of configuring netware... what sick person thought that was a good idea? it makes editing sendmail configs by hand look easy.
  • by ghjm ( 8918 ) on Tuesday June 24, 2003 @11:29AM (#6284718) Homepage
    Actually, this is the second time Novell has ported the Netware core services to Linux. The first time, it was when Caldera had just started and Ray Noorda (ex Novell CEO) was heavily involved. They released "NDS for Linux" for the then-current Red Hat Linux 6.0, with great fanfare. It worked well; your Linux box was basically indistinguishable from a native Novell box on your network. Which, at the time, was a valuable and worthwhile feature.

    I spent some time selling and installing these boxes to small businesses because they could seriously undercut the price of native Netware. They ran well on RHL 6.0, but got flakier on 6.1 and 6.2, and broke completely on 7.0. Novell/Caldera never upgraded or patched. Every time I called or talked to them at a trade show, they would tell me that a new updated version was right around the corner and should be out any day now. But it never happened.

    That was FOUR YEARS AGO. Four years and not a peep or whistle or so much as a security patch.

    Why should we trust them now?

    -Graham
  • Re:Way to go Novell (Score:2, Interesting)

    by jasonsfa98 ( 648370 ) on Tuesday June 24, 2003 @12:19PM (#6285298)
    We've been using a GroupWise system that I built from scratch 3 years ago. The server has NEVER crashed or lost any data (knock on wood). Notify however has caused a handfull of crashes on some Windows 98 boxes.

    Look into your IT staff ... not the software maker. This isn't MS where they are usually to blame. USER ERROR.
  • by R3 ( 15929 ) on Tuesday June 24, 2003 @12:34PM (#6285466)
    Ummm, last time I checked, Novell eDirectory 8.7 (NDS), eGuide (web LDAP lookup tool) and DirXML worked very nicely on Red Hat 8.0. And that was TWO DAYS AGO!
  • by Some Bitch ( 645438 ) on Tuesday June 24, 2003 @12:57PM (#6285712)
    It goes back to Agincourt, legend has it that English archers captured by the French had their index and middle fingers chopped off to make it impossible for them to use a bow again. The 2 fingered salute was the English way of saying 'You ain't got me yet!' :D
  • Re:support (Score:3, Interesting)

    by flacco ( 324089 ) on Tuesday June 24, 2003 @01:43PM (#6286226)
    (I don't think pure LDAP solutions are powerful enough, but I might be wrong).

    I think the problem with a lot of linux tools for implementing "enterprise" solutions is that they tend to require that the admin know every little detail about each component technology in that solution. in an ideal sense, this is good because it encourages learning. in the realistic sense, it means that a potential convert ends up saying "Fuck this noise" and reaches for the fuzzy-feely-pointy-clicky thing that proprietary vendors will happily sell them. sometimes you don't want to have to memorize the ldap spec just get a centralized account/auth database up and running.

    A teeny little bit of hand-holding (and a teensy bit less scorn and patronization) would go a long way to lubricating linux's deep, deep penetration into the enterprise, especially among mid-size businesses.

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