Win4Lin 5.0 Reviewed 419
uninet writes "About a month ago, NeTraverse contacted OfB Labs with an early release copy of Win4Lin 5.0, the follow-up to the already impressive Win4Lin 4.0 released in May 2002. Win4Lin, for those not familiar with it, offers near-native (or better) speed "virtualization" of a Windows box so that one can run Windows 9x (95/98/Me) inside GNU/Linux."
Can I with sample with no strings? (Score:0, Insightful)
Re:I fail to understand (Score:3, Insightful)
This is a virtualization program. A bit like VMWare... you still have to obtain (ahem) a copy of windows.
The question is (Score:5, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Why? (Score:3, Insightful)
Except for Windows applications.
I don't get it. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Who the heck modded this down? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:weird (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:This is great news! (Score:2, Insightful)
The above-mentioned apps are to break this unfortunate cycle and get people on to Linux, which must be a good thing.
Buy it out (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:weird (Score:2, Insightful)
As far as running linux apps on windows without a VM... many linux apps are cross platform and can be run on windows with a recompilation, since tools like Cygnus have a version of gcc and the headers etc for windows. There's many examples - gaim, the gimp, etc etc. This doesn't work the other way as most windows apps are binary-only, and we don't have the source code in order to port/recompile them on linux.
There was even an effort a while back to allow linux binaries to run on windows by emulating the linux system calls (kinda like the opposite of wine). I don't think there's much point to this really though as most apps can just be recompiled as the source is available.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
There's no Linux equivalent to Microsoft Money, for example -- not something that can connect to my bank automatically and get statements and process transfers without having to import and export qif files. Same with Microsoft Streets&Trips -- there's simply no equivalent.
I can't connect a Linux box to my work's VPN either -- there's no working client.
And if I managed to do so, what would I use to connect to the Exchange server to get my emails and appointments?
Then there is, as the previous poster stated, the issue of games. Linux games are few and far between, especially 3D games.
Oh, and watching DVDs? (Legally, that is)
That said, there's similar cases where Unix-like systems can offer what Windows can't. cygwin helps, sure, but that's just like running a Windows emulator under Linux.
The real problem I see with the product is that Windows 9x isn't going to be supported for much longer, and new software more and more often require an NT5+ based OS (Windows 2000/XP/2003).
In which case Windows 9x compatibility won't help too much...
Regards,
--
*Art
requires a kernel patch (Score:1, Insightful)
I stopped reading right there. No thanks. I left my kernel patching days behind me when I tossed Slackware in favour of Red Hat four years ago. I don't want to deal with that shit any more.
why (Score:3, Insightful)
I switched to osx from linux 2 weeks ago, and it is wonderfult o be abel to use my linux apps under X11 while running word, ie and a bunch of commercial games. OSX is the best thing to use if you want unix and commercial app and game support.
Why emualate a third class OS when you have option of using it natively under *nix?
Outdated (Score:2, Insightful)
If this should have been useful it would have had to emulate 2000/XP as well. IMHO this is near pointless software.
Re:Why? (Score:3, Insightful)
Hmm, not to kind to the GIMP development team and I happen to know a lot of GIMP users who disagree with that statement. It works for me and many others. Maybe you should read more, or just be happy with using your own tools, or in the alternative convince the software makers of the applications that you want them on Linux? Seems like that could get you what you want better than criticizing the GIMP team, which doesn't get you what you want.
Not a flame, just a comment.
Re:This is great news! (Score:5, Insightful)
It makes absolutely no financial sense to release a game for Linux -- the market is too small, the market you're going after (individuals running Linux as opposed to corporations) is too hostile to commercial development, and the graphics support is generally completely different from what you have available in Windows (yeah, it's the same if you write for OpenGL, but there's a helluva lot more support for writing DirectX).
Yes, I run Linux. I also run Windows. Linux makes for an excellent server, an incredible development platform, and it's just fine for web surfing, but I still wouldn't recommend it as a desktop replacement to the average user, nor as a gaming box. Windows is a mediocre server, fine for web surfing, a decent development platform (obviously better than Linux if you're developing for Windows exclusively, but I'm a Unix coder so I'm biased), and a great gaming platform. Use the platforms where they perform well... if you want to use any single platform for all tasks, well, you're going to have gnashing of teeth whenever you hit the weak spots.
The obvious question is, how do you solve those weak spots, and I don't have a really good answer. But as far as gaming goes, I do suspect the answer will be improve Windows emulation, not try and woo developers over to Linux. It's a harsh reality.
file under why bother... (Score:2, Insightful)
./ snobbery (Score:5, Insightful)
I use it to encode videos in DivX format. DivX.com is the partner with one of my clients, and they do not have a encoding app for my mac, and the linux version is not as flexible (CLI) as the windows codec. So I run Adobe Premiere, Virtual Dub, and DivX 5.0.2 from within Linux! Prior to Win4Lin I had to reboot my machine to get into win2k for encoding. This has saved me so much time and frustration it is amazing. Also, I can simply back up the windows related directories (which are installed in my home folder on linux) and then I never have to install windows again, I can just install Win4Lin and restore the directories complete with programs, file associations, and serial numbers!
Win4Lin is fast! I noticed an incredible speed difference with windows 98 on a PIII 533 with 512 MB RAM! The OS booted in seconds even with Linux running with all of the bells and whistles of KDE (most of them anyways). Windows 98 is much, much snapier. And if it crashes (win98), I can easily kill the process and restart it in seconds! No rebooting, no headaches.
Finally, if you, as a geek, can not see the inherent coolness of running a virtual OS at higher than native speeds from within Linux, then you are no geek of mine... I have messed with WINE for years, hours of frustration to get the most basic apps working... but for a nominal fee (sometimes closed source is okay) I can get more work done, spend less time in windows, save my uptime, and forget about rebooting headaches! Have you ever tried to emulate win98 with VirtualPC on a mac?!? If you need windows, and your apps require speed, Win4Lin is the way to go. Period.
Ideally, Win4Lin would be open source, but these people have coded an incredible piece of software which was, to me, well worth the licensing fee! I don't need the true bloat of win2k or XP (nor do I need the EULA headaches!) all I need is a few win32 apps (for encoding video) and win4lin pulls this off for me with relative ease. No you can't play games, but shouldn't you be working anyways? Honestly, the waste of doing this with win2k or XP is obvious. If you just need the apps, you usually won't need all of the services and overhead that come with the latest versions of windows. Win98 runs most programs (albeit somewhat unstable) very quickly, it is solid in the sense that Linux isn't going to be brought down with it, it boots like a madman, and it does just about everything I need.
Quit being cheap, buy a copy and try it out. The support is very responsive, they have an active mailing list, and it actually does what the company claims. A successful Linux only vendor who provides support, upgrades, and a useful product. This is a model for other vendors regardless of OS!
This is great... (Score:4, Insightful)
Why? Because Windows 98 is on its way out. All of our proprietary software runs in Windows 95/98, but the new version coming out next month uses Windows 98 and up ONLY. I expect next year (or maybe 2005) it will be phased out much like Windows 95.
Let's face it, not one new machine built today comes with Windows 98 SE. And let's not get into the train wreck that was ME.
What I'm saying is we can't deploy linux on a large scale, even if it will run on our propriety software, until I know it will last at least 3 years (the usual PC-replacement development cycle).
So while I'd love to get this up and running for The Powers that Be, until something that's even more advanced and is guaranteed to support Windows 2000 or XP only apps comes along, no endorsement here can be made.
Of course, the irony is that were we to support this and purchase it for our organization that it would fund the win2k/xp only program support, however, just giving it the once over, what about USB devices such as WinCE devices (yes, a lot of execs do use them...my Tungsten T is the one palm of the whole place), printers, et al. Plus all the weird hardware that my org. relies on, such as high load scanners.
And if you've had any time in sys admining, vendors love to blame things like odd operating systems if their buggy software doesn't work the first time out.
Sigh. I push Linux every time I can around here (I'm the resident Linux Guy of the IT dept.), but it's just not there yet.
Re:weird (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I don't get it. (Score:3, Insightful)
Really? I know of many. I get paid by them to ensure their software works on Wine, WITHOUT Windows.
Why use Linux and Windows at the same time? You'd still need to pay licensing for Windows.
If anything, Win4Lin is the hack. An awfully good one, but still a clever hack regardless. Wine is actually a solid solution that actually poses a threat to Microsoft.
Re:Check out transgaming - was "No 3D?" (Score:4, Insightful)
Besides, emulation is important for legacy applications.
Bingo.
A lot of folks are happy as clams running their small business on 5-15 year old versions of Windows.
MS is using every means it can to force those users into buying new versions of the OS, new versions of applications, new subscriptions to ?
If a Linux box can allow them to extend the life of their legacy Windows system, that's a benefit to them.
Then, because the basic platform is Linux, they have the opportunity to write new apps on that platform, instead of being restricted to Windows only.
Re:Check out transgaming - was "No 3D?" (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't think there will be a native port of MS Office very soon. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the Mac version's days are numbered, what with IE being cancelled.
What you are forgetting here is IE was free. MS Office for Mac was never free. Microsoft is the leading software manufacturer for Mac and I doubt they would do anything to loose that market.
Microsoft may never choose to release MS Office for linux but that has nothing to do with their Mac Software division.
Re:No 3D? (Score:3, Insightful)
The only reason I can think of as to why it hasn't been done is because the market is too small. Lets face it, this is really only for gamers and are gamers gonna pay $300 for VMware just so they can run games in Linux? Or even $100 for Win4Lin? Not likely. At least with VMware it's going to take a fairly large effort to virtualize an entire 3D accelerated graphics card. It's not impossible though.
I'd really like to have that functionality myself so I'm hoping one day we'll have 3D support. I'll continue to push the "VMware needs to support the 3D modeling and CAD market" suggestion.
And nobody ever said they wanted full performance in a virtualized environment. I mean there is some overhead, but even so, with modern hardware it's quite fast.
Virtualization is fine while we're in this transition state (you know, everyone transitioning to Linux
Could you do this little by little? (Score:4, Insightful)
Then get one to two for work, and on those put Win4Lin. Argue that as a supplement, it's better. Then when someone wants to be using MS Word, they'll think "Fast or slow? I'll pick fast."
Next, start pushing hiring decisions in favor of those who know how to use and program Linux, where their spare time could be used to help script and such.
Doing it this way, you could argue that the company depends less on any one system, and is more resilient for surprise customer requests.