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Linux Software

ClusterKnoppix 296

chronicon writes "Knoppix is the ultimate live CD. No geek-kit should be without it. Now Wim Vandersmissen has taken it a step futher by adding openMosix functionality. Drop the clusterKnoppix CD in your "server", boot up... boot up some networked clients... Knoppix built in LTSP magic kicks in and ta-da--instant cluster!"
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ClusterKnoppix

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  • by stanmann ( 602645 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @11:08AM (#6067721) Journal
    Ok, Kidding. I'm actually quite impressed with the wide support Knoppix provides for hardware and functionality. 5 years ago, the network computer theory was being trundled out, AGAIN. Now we have the capability for a truly functional dumb terminal/server configuration and it will run on any commodity hardware/software higher than a 486DX(allegedly). It ran well on my oddball Celeron 300 with a 640x480 monitor, although right now that is my only complaint with the various implementations of X...
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 29, 2003 @11:14AM (#6067775)
    clusterKnoppix is in desperate need of mirrors. here's one (but i urge you all to make a .torrent or something):
    http://www.openmosixview.com/clusterk noppix/

    for a crappy yet less bloaty altenative, check out PlumpOS: http://plumpos.sourceforge.net/
  • bittorrent (Score:2, Informative)

    by parkanoid ( 573952 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @11:19AM (#6067822)
    Bittorrents going up in ~20 mintes, stand by.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 29, 2003 @11:32AM (#6067937)
    Not too many 'common' apps, but things like PVM PovRay, make, various CD ripping/video processing utilities. There is a list on OpenMOSIX.org

    With the experimental DSM patches being developed, Apache even runs, but most things like databases and web servers generally don't because they depend on shared memory to work, and shared memory on a cluster is a difficult thing to provide if oyu want any kind of performance.

  • by SnowDeath ( 157414 ) <peteguhl@NoSpam.gmail.com> on Thursday May 29, 2003 @11:36AM (#6067965) Homepage
    Good reverend, you should search for PXE info - it is basically a chip on a network card that can basically "boot" to the network...it seaches for DHCP, BOOTP, etc and blah blah blah :)
  • by SharpFang ( 651121 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @11:36AM (#6067967) Homepage Journal
    The network card has just enough of simple BIOS to grab some necessary info from the net - first a simple bootup code, then the kernel, then mount the network drives... Everything kept in RAM. Few modern network cards support this, but if you see an empty chip socket on a network card, it's most probable it's place for the boot code EEPROM.
  • Re:Minimum hardware? (Score:3, Informative)

    by stanmann ( 602645 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @11:39AM (#6067989) Journal
    From Knoppix.org What are the minimum system requirements?

    Intel-compatible CPU (i486 or later),
    20 MB of RAM for text mode, at least 96 MB for graphics mode with KDE (at least 128 MB of RAM is recommended to use the various office products),
    bootable CD-ROM drive,
    or a boot floppy and standard CD-ROM (IDE/ATAPI or SCSI),
    standard SVGA-compatible graphics card,
    serial or PS/2 standard mouse or IMPS/2-compatible USB-mouse.
    And for graphics mode, you need a monitor that will support 800x600 for reasonable performance. it will run at 640x480, but feels cramped.
  • by 1qa2ws3ed ( 662567 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @11:41AM (#6068010)
    one example: http://openmosix.sourceforge.net/#Documentation the last one.
  • bittorrent up (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 29, 2003 @11:56AM (#6068112)
    clusterKNOPPIX_V3.2-2003-05-20-EN-cl1.iso.torrent [madoka.be]

    (also added to the main clusterknoppix website)
  • Re:bittorrent (Score:2, Informative)

    by Cond0r ( 569916 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @11:59AM (#6068127)
    Right here: http://condor.madoka.be/clusterKNOPPIX_V3.2-2003-0 5-20-EN-cl1.iso.torrent
  • BITTORRENT UP! (Score:2, Informative)

    by parkanoid ( 573952 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @12:05PM (#6068176)
    here! [stuy.edu] Be gentle, the torrent itself is hosted on my school account, and I'll get ownzored by the administration if we get /.ed.
  • Re:mirrors needed! (Score:2, Informative)

    by Cond0r ( 569916 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @12:16PM (#6068256)
    http://condor.madoka.be/clusterKNOPPIX_V3.2-2003-0 5-20-EN-cl1.iso.torrent
  • by 1qa2ws3ed ( 662567 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @12:18PM (#6068275)
    you can do it in both ways. i had 2 nics that support pxe boot, i just had to follow the wizard on the server, and turn the clients on. job done. ah, i precautionally turned off my already running dhcp server after booting the first clusterknoppix machine, don't know if it was necessary, i was afraid of conflicting dhcp servers because clusterknoppix starts it's own with the wizard.
  • Computer Lab? (Score:5, Informative)

    by GrouchoMarx ( 153170 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @12:20PM (#6068287) Homepage
    From the web site:

    * "openMosix terminal server" - uses PXE, DHCP and tftp to boot linux clients via the network.
    No CDrom drive/harddisk/floppy needed for the clients
    * openMosix autodiscovery - new nodes automatically join the cluster (no configuration needed)
    * Clustermanagement tools - openMosix userland/openMosixview
    * Every node has rootaccess to every other node via ssh/RSAkeys
    * MFS/dfsa support
    * Every node can run full blown X (PC-room/demo setup) or console only (more memory available)


    Aside from the "every node has root access" bit, am I way out in left field thinking that this would make a good computer lab system? Just start up the clients and they pull from the Knoppix central server and you're done. No need to have floppies, or even to bother locking down a system. The student does something screwy to the PC, hit reset and you're back to fresh configuration.

    Or am I missing something completely here?
  • by jhealy1024 ( 234388 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @12:24PM (#6068321)
    PXE describes a method where the NIC in the computer bootstraps the information it needs to boot off of the network. Many modern computers have NICs that support this. Newworld Macintoshes can netboot, as can most recent 3com cards (even my 3 year old Dell supports it).

    Basically, the NIC makes a DHCP (or BOOTP) request for an IP address. The DHCP protocol allows the server to return the address of a TFTP (Trivial FTP) server along with the IP address for the client. The client contacts the TFTP server to get a kernel (vmlinuz), and then boots directly into that. From there, the kernel should be configured to mount its filesystems over NFS, and finish the boot process. I'm sure Google can point you to a more complete explanation.

    What makes ClusterKnoppix so cool is that it's usually a huge pain to set up a TFTP/DHCP/NFS server correctly for multiple clients. ClusterKnoppix does it all for you, so all you need are some (really) "dumb" clients and all the heavy lifting is done for you.
  • Re:bittorrent (Score:3, Informative)

    by Latent IT ( 121513 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @12:39PM (#6068446)
    Give up yet? [madoka.be] =p
  • by 1qa2ws3ed ( 662567 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @12:47PM (#6068495)
    > If you set this up correctly all the computers that you boot
    > up with this become a mosix cluster?

    an openMosix cluster, not a mosix cluster.

    >Then all the users are terminals off of this cluster?
    if you want, yes.

    > So all of the users have some of all of the power of the
    > Mosix cluster?

    yes

    > I just wonder how well mosix handles nodes dropping
    > off and back on again.

    if a node goes down for a small time, and then comes back, no problem. if a node goes down for a time long enough to finish his work, processes won't come back where they came from, so you (or your apps or scripts) have to take care of this situation. tipically in a cluster you don't want nodes to go down, never. this can be a situation tipical in a pc laboratory or the like, for an entire campus this probably is not adequate, you need something more "grid computing aware"

    >Plus how well will can is scale?

    it depends a lot on the speed of the connection between nodes, on the type and amount of traffic generated and so on the type of computation being made, on the number of nodes, on the speed of the clients, etc...

    >Could you have five hundred or a thousand systems off in the cluster.

    tecnically up to 65535 nodes (last 2 bytes of ipv4 address) if i'm not wrong. i was told biggest cluster of this types count 1-2k nodes, but i'm not sure.
  • Re:Computer Lab? (Score:4, Informative)

    by Flammon ( 4726 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @12:47PM (#6068497) Journal

    Well, yes, you're missing an equally important point that it is a cluster. X diskless workstations are part of this system but making those X workstations part of a Mosix cluster is what makes this setup interesting.

  • True (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 29, 2003 @12:50PM (#6068516)
    But if you have multiple processes, it'll distribute them.
  • Re:Cool (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 29, 2003 @01:07PM (#6068669)
    You might want to look at grendelsbane
    http://nwst.de/livelinuxcd/lilinux.p html?include=h tm/en_welcome.htm
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 29, 2003 @01:19PM (#6068760)
    there are instructions on how to build your own knoppix system in the docs... You simply edit the image. Mount up the ISO disk image and change it, then reburn.

    If you don't like x, reconfigure it: ) I am not saying it is super easy or anything(if you are inexperienced), but it isn't impossible.

    You could even change the pngs to say "stanmannix" if you want to impress your buddies (watch the licensing rules if you redistribute: )

    l8,
    ac
  • by #undefined ( 150241 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @01:23PM (#6068787)
    i haven't messed with clusterknoppix (just knoppix itself), but have looked into net booting a few machines at home to serve as x-terminals (since ltsp packages exist for debian and is included with knoppix).

    most newer machines with an on-board nic (my ecs k7s5a) support pxe boot as an option within the bios. but for older machines, net booting requires either a nic that supports net booting (should have an eeprom on the nic), which are not the cheap nics that i've always bought, or with a floppy (which can probably be burned to a cdr to make a bootable cd).

    for net boot floppy images see the section "Making Boot Disks for Legacy PCs" in the k12ltsp client set-up instructions [k12ltsp.org]. those instructions reference the rom-o-matic website [rom-o-matic.net], which supplies dynamically-generated downloadable boot floppies using etherboot [etherboot.org].

    so for a small (1.44 MB) simple net boot solution for computers that don't support pxe booting, but with a floppy drive (or bootable from a cd), look at the k12ltsp instructions and visit the rom-o-matic website for a net boot floppy.

    ps the images might even be on the knoppix cd as net boot floppy images are (sometimes?) distributed with ltsp, but probably not due to space constraints on the knoppix cd.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 29, 2003 @01:45PM (#6068956)
    There's a site made for exactly this purpose:

    http://f.scarywater.net/ [scarywater.net]

    A very interesting graph here [scarywater.net] from when they put out the Redhat 9 ISOs.

    Still, it generates an insane amount of traffic [scarywater.net].

    Though, I'm not sure if they are doing seeding themselves as well, that might contribute to that traffic...
  • by itzdandy ( 183397 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @02:22PM (#6069296) Homepage
    i must second the thought of the AC. i am using bittorrent to grab this file in a %100 legal manner and im getting well over 200K.
  • by Gill Bates ( 88647 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @02:34PM (#6069388)
    You can tell knoppix your screen res at boot-up. F2 will give a list of boot options one of which is 'screen=[whatever your screen res is]'

    e.g., knoppix screen=1600x1200

    works like a charm

  • by krb ( 15012 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @03:17PM (#6069808) Homepage
    pay no attention to the "insightful" comments that serve to dress up a "Fuck you, MS dude."

    I'll try to give you an actual response. People have been quick to mention Knoppix CD's for rescue operations -- this doesn't apply to the Clustering feature, just knoppix in general. I used one of these last night to fix my roommate's system which had gotten totally owned and was halting at LILO. Could i have done it with a floppy based linux distro? Probly, but it would've been a bigger pain, because the floppy is small and may not have the tools i need, whereas a CD is big enough to have damn near everything.

    That being out of the way - some uses for the cluster disks.
    1. say your server (using ClusterKnoppix), which has a hard disk and lots of ram, etc, runs a really dynamic web site which needs lots of CPU. If you see that you're getting shitload of connections you take some other systems that aren't critical, pop in a CD and reboot and add their processors to the pool to help out the web server

    2. as has been mentioned, in academic institutions, you could use this to harness the computers down the hall in the public lab for experiments overnight...

    3. i don't today, but someday i may need a cluster, and why make it difficult if i can pop a CD in 6 LAN systems and get it going rather than spending a week on configuration. Shit, i've had occasions where my computer was compiling for 3 days straight... would've been nice to fire up a couple of secondary systems to help out...

    i suppose you could call these contrived examples, but they're not wholly unrealistic. i think what you're getting at is, "why should normal people care?" which is a good question. is this useful for 90% of computer users? fuck no. 1%? Maybe. it solves the problem of running a cluster which can be simply and arbitrarily resized (keyword simply). If you have no need for a cluster, then you certainly don't care about a resizable one.

    keep in mind though, that lots of things can be cool without being useful to yourself. i have no need for a supercomputer, but i still think they're pretty interesting and cool. i think this is a cool technology too, useful for a certain class of problem, and a limited set of users.

    that's my 57 yen... for what it's worth.
  • by raju1kabir ( 251972 ) on Thursday May 29, 2003 @05:04PM (#6070838) Homepage
    I tried out the previous release of the bootable knoppix and found it incredibly cool. But really, WHAT are the uses for this? or cluster knoppix that we should try or be interested? The only use i have for it is as a bootable cd in case my main os installation is trashed and I need to retrieve some files right away.

    I think the utility of Knoppix increases dramatically if you tend to be on the move a lot.

    In the office, I don't do much with it. But when I'm traveling, it becomes essential. I can stick it in an idle machine and get to the bottom of network problems while other people - even the people who set the network up - are still pointy-clicketing around to find some diagnostic tools on their Windows machines.

    I can stick it in a machine at an internet cafe (or anywhere else on the planet) and get reliable, secure remote access to my office desktop.

    At hotels and conventions, when nobody can figure out how to get on the show net, I can boot up and sniff for a few seconds to get the lay of the land.

    Knoppix has made a hero of me more times than I can count.

All seems condemned in the long run to approximate a state akin to Gaussian noise. -- James Martin

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